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Wednesday, November 5, 2008
Pat Burrell celebrates as he leads the Phillies down Broad Street on a horse-drawn beer wagon. Burrell, a Phil for nine seasons, is a free agent.

The Phillies haven't opened contract negotiations with Pat Burrell, and it's unclear when they will.

The Phillies have exclusive negotiating rights with Burrell through Nov. 14.

"We have [talked] in the past and we probably will again," Ruben Amaro Jr. said at the GM meetings in Dana Point, Calif. "We'll see if it's a possibility that we match up."

I spoke with one of Burrell's agents, Ed Hayes, last night. Here is some of what he had to say:

Q: How would you characterize Pat's interest in coming back? He has made it clear he would like to be back.
A: The bottom line is that everything you've heard from him publicly is an accurate statement of his feelings. He loves it here. He loves the fans. He loves playing here. He thinks this team has an opportunity to win for many, many years. And he'd love to stay. Whether the economics can be worked out, I guess we're going to find out in the next ... whatever period of time. His primary goal is to stay here, but we'll see what the Phillies have in mind and whether things can be worked out. But his goal is to be here.

Q: You have not talked formally with the Phillies yet?
A: That is correct.

Q: Do you have a desire to get those talks going soon?
A: Obviously, the Phillies have exclusive rights for another 10 days or so. In a perfect world you work something out right away and everybody is happy. But I think Pat understands that this could be a lengthy process. We hope it isn't. But look, Ruben has got his hands full right now. It's understandable. There are a lot of things he needs to do. Quite frankly, it might be a period of time before they're even in a position to address it. Pat would like to see it done quickly, but he also recognizes that there may be some time in it.

Amaro mentioned the possibility that they could go with a platoon in left field that includes Greg Dobbs, Geoff Jenkins and Matt Stairs.

"[Dobbs might be] a pretty real option," he said. "Leftfield might very well be his best defensive position. And the more at-bats he gets the better. With Charlie, if a guy is playing well, and [Jayson] Werth is the perfect example, he'll let him play every day. Greg is a hard worker. He's not going to take anything for granted."

Still, the Phils would then have to acquire a righthanded-hitting outfielder to platoon with Dobbs or the others.

"In an ideal world, yes," he said. "For balance, yes. But I think we could probably live with it. If there's a way to improve somehow with a free-agent we will."

I still suspect Burrell won't be back, but I can't imagine the Phillies wouldn't want a righthanded bat to put into their lineup if Burrell doesn't return. Charlie Manuel talks about balance all the time. If the Phillies go with that three-headed lefthanded platoon in left, the only pure righthanded hitters in the lineup would be Werth, Pedro Feliz and Carlos Ruiz.

Posted by Todd Zolecki @ 1:00 AM  Permalink | 30 comments
30
Comments   
Posted 11:48 AM, 11/06/2008
Tim418
I think they should try to resign Burrell to a two-year deal with a third or even fourth year that kicks in automatically if he meets certain performance levels. They could throw a lot of money his way in the short-term...the key is to not get stuck paying him lots of money 5 or 6 years from now. I think the hang up will be the years...but maybe they could structure a contract in such a way that he will be able to continue playing as a Phillie as long as he wants, provided he keeps producing. The big question is whether we'd be able to replace his production. I'd feel better about letting him walk if we knew there was a power-hitting outfielder brewing in the minors, but I don't see one.
Posted 03:00 PM, 11/05/2008
Norma
Just read that Pat doesn't have a "new" agent, like previously reported. He has "two" agents. Working as a "team". Wonder how that will impact things?
Posted 02:11 PM, 11/05/2008
jeff gross
that's learn oops
Posted 02:11 PM, 11/05/2008
jeff gross
RWR: I agree about Donald, he's trade bait big time. Have you seen his numbers form teh fall league?? As for marson, I think he starts in 2010. next year is his time to lern the pitching staff, how to call big league games etc. I foresee Ruiz as his backup for many years
Posted 01:25 PM, 11/05/2008
RollinsWasRight
Marson is not a back-up. He is a legit prospect with real trade value. If they like Ruiz as much as they say they do, keeping Marson is pointless, as he won't see significant playing time here for several years, which is more than enough time to find a groom another young catcher. And if the Phillies honestly believed Donald could play 3rd, he would've been there by now. It isn't as if Jimmy Rollins is a new arrival. The only value either of them has to this organization is as trade bait, unless you are so worried about injuries that you need to hold onto them for depth.
Posted 12:56 PM, 11/05/2008
jeff gross
I'm okay giving Pat a 3 year deal, as long as teh total pay-out isn't too much higher then we'd offer for a 2 year deal. He is an asset in the club house, and a leader on teh team. He's a great mentor for the young players coming up. Since he's expressed that he doesn't want to be a DH, and as a FA he can decide these things, we have a very good chance of bringing him back without breaking the bank. As for Donald, send him to AAA with a thirdbaseman's glove. He needs to learn his future posistion. If he can't play there, he's useless to us, unless we're talking of trading j-roll. Marson is next years back up catcher in place of Coste, who I hate to see go. This means Jammillio is trade bait if anyone wants him. As for pitchers, assuming Moyer is back, we have Eaton, Kendrick, happ, Carlos, competing for the 5th spot. I wouldn't mind trading Eaton and one of the other three, but don't know how much you can get. We need to save one in case of injury to SP mid season
Posted 12:19 PM, 11/05/2008
RollinsWasRight
The way I see it, the Phillies have no choice but to try to pull off a trade. I think we are all in agreement that, unless Pat is willing to take that 2 yr/$22M deal, it would be unwise to bring him back. We know Manny isn't coming here. There are no other viable FA OF's who fit their need. And considering that Jason Donald is blocked by Rollins, Marson appears blocked by Ruiz (who is not going anywhere anytime soon), and they have a couple of reasonable pitching prospects, they should be able to wrestle a decent everyday OF from someone looking to get younger. That platoon scenario should only be, IMO, an absolute last resort. The question is, are there any OFs available via trade, besides Matt Holliday, who is going to cost too much in prospects for a 1-year rental?
Posted 12:14 PM, 11/05/2008
RollinsWasRight
Zorro: I get all that, and I am not disagreeing with you. My concern is, if you replace the combination of Burrell and Werth with Werth and a platoon, who hits 5th? Are you counting on a Stairs/Jenkins/Dobbs/Player-to-Bat-Right-Handed-and-Be-Named-Later platoon to hit 5th? That's why I think, whether they like it or not, the Phillies have a bona fide need to replace Burrell with a legit, everyday player. I have no issue with Werth's offense, so long as it is not immediately in front of, or behind, Howard in the lineup. Otherwise, I look forward to seeing what he can do with 700 Plate appearances.
Posted 12:10 PM, 11/05/2008
JayW
Of the free agents available to replace Burrell (right-handed hitting outfielders), the ne I would most like to take a look at is Gabe Kapler. If he's healthy, he could definitely fill in for a year. Still, I'd like to see Jason Donald get a shot at the job in spring training.
Posted 12:08 PM, 11/05/2008
EL Zorro
Rollins, I did not said in the line-up, I said back-to-back. Double check the comment before you make yours. And remember, Werth will only get better as he get more experience. My comment was in reference to Jeff's worries about replacing Burell's hrs and rbs. Werth not only is going to just do that, he will be a better all around player.
Posted 12:04 PM, 11/05/2008
RollinsWasRight
bski: I agree. If they could find a RH hitter who hits closer to .300 than .250, about 20-25 HR and 40+ doubles, it would be just as valuable, if not more so, to have that hitting behind Howard. Anyone who can rack up 85-90+ RBI in the 5-hole, no matter how they get them, and hopefully hit .280+, is what is needed. And no platoon is going to pull that off.
Posted 11:59 AM, 11/05/2008
bski
Another thing is that we don't NEED to replace Burrell's power numbers, per se. We are looking for run production, specifically more consistent run production, however that can be accomplished. At one time or another, I believe most of us have lamented the fact that most of our runs come via the long ball, and that when we don't hit homeruns we don't score. Well, what would be so bad about adding a right handed bat that hits for average and doesn't go through long dry spells. That could go a long way toward helping our offensive consistency. Manuel himself was quoted as saying that he'd be fine going that route.
Posted 11:52 AM, 11/05/2008
Truth
pat h 2:20 am post-I guess your life is a constant adventure while traveling on the wild side. Anyhow lets just let the Burrell matter play out. I do not believe thee is a 4/5 yr deal out there for a guy that is wildly incionsistent as Sully stated and can not run a lick. Even in the AL as a DH Burrell is simply not worth astonomical numbers. He slumps often and if a regular gets hurt he can step in and play the field for 9 innings. Burrell is worth 3/27mil. It's just a question of if the Phillies will pay it and I think they will.
Posted 11:51 AM, 11/05/2008
RollinsWasRight
Much as I love the way Pat always handled himself, and much as I appreciated him despite his being underappreciated for a long time, I do not want to see the Phillies make the same mistake the Red Sox did with Mike Lowell. I am thrilled for Pat that he got a ring, and glad to see he finally contributed to it in his last AB, but they were right not to go over the top for Rowand, and they would be equally right not to go over the top for Burrell. That being said, they need to find someone else. Regardless of what is being said on here, Burrell's offense needs to be replaced. Forget the numbers, how about the simple fact that they need a RH RBI man hitting behind Howard? That isn't Jayson Werth. That isn't anybody currently on the roster. And trading Burrell + Werth for Werth + Jenkins/Dobbs/Stairs/unknown righty platoon will not give you the same production. If Pat leaves, and again, I can't complain if he does, they MUST find an adequate replacement. This platoon nonsense is not good enough. Even Werth's production only improved AFTER he began playing regularly. Very few players are productive over a full season in a part time role.
Posted 11:48 AM, 11/05/2008
bski
El Zorro, don't forget about Utley, either. His production was down for what, the last 4 months of the season? We still haven't heard anything more about the hip injury he says he doesn't have and I doubt that we will, BUT we know he wasn't at 100%. I would expect a healthy Utley to go back to giving us 2006 and 2007 numbers, which is an improvement over his 2008 numbers.
Posted 11:46 AM, 11/05/2008
RollinsWasRight
actually, jeff, werth's career averages, when projected over a full season, show him to be very comparable to Burrell powerwise. What makes me laugh is the notion of replacing Burrell with Werth, because you don't want two strikeout machines in the lineup in Howard and Burrell. Take a look at the numbers... Werth strikes out at a far more alarming rate than Burrell does.
Posted 11:26 AM, 11/05/2008
EL Zorro
You have to remember that Rollins power numbers were down last year. Also Feliz's HR numbers were down. He averaged 20 Hrs and 80 RBIs when he was playing with San Francisco in a pitchers park and in a pitcher-rich West Division. So both Rollins and Feliz power numbers will improve. Then you add another full year of Victorino and Werth and you should be in good shape. Jenkins/Dobbs and whomever they sign should take care of Werth's numbers.
Posted 11:17 AM, 11/05/2008
jeff gross
If you are "trding" pat for Werth, that's fine, but who replaces Werth's numbers from this year? Also Werth is not a Power hitter, despite his 20+ HR this year. he is a single doubles guy with speed and a bit of power. The Outfield next year needs to produce runs (HR< RBI, H) comparitive to this year's output or we are in trouble. There are no changes occuring in inf to make up production. where are we getting the combined production of Werth and Pat? Werth stays, who replaces Pat?
Posted 10:48 AM, 11/05/2008
Sully
Jeff, I didn't say Pat hasn't contributed, he has, but he has been wildly inconsistent. What I said was that the Phillies won't gamble with a long-term contract, due to his speed, age, etc... and I understand why that might happen. Finding players is the GM's job. I don't pretend to be one, thus I'd never stick my neck out and say "trade for Holliday or sign Manny" I didn't even say this new guy has to put up numbers like Pat. Just be a decent ballplayer that can contribute to the franchise. This year should have showed EVERYONE that you don't need a blockbuster (Sanatana, Manny) to win. I trust that Rube will fill the need, with or without Burrell, they best way that he can.
Posted 10:40 AM, 11/05/2008
EL Zorro
Jeff, you don't necessarily need to replace Burell. Jayson Werth can put Burell’s numbers or better his number in a full season. You can get a cheaper part time player (Baldelli?) to platoon with either Dobbs or Jenkins. As much as I like Pat, I don’t think he is going to be here. His speed is declining and you hate to have Howard and him on the bases at the same time with either Werth or Victorino hitting a gapper. He is also prone to too many hitting slumps and so is Howard. You can’t have two slow runners, strikeout machines hitting back-to-back again.
Posted 10:23 AM, 11/05/2008
JayW
The Phillies can't keep both Jenkins and Stairs, so forget about that. They will need a replacement for Taguchi, someone with some speed who can play all the outfield positions, players like Reggie Willits, Justin Chrisian, Willie Bloomquist. Golson isn't ready yet.
Posted 10:06 AM, 11/05/2008
jeff gross
Sully, I'm getting tired of all the people saying how little Pat contributed during his years here and how if he leaves it won't be that bad...as long as tehy get another right handed bat who provides his numbers. Well, who is your answer?? What right handed OF are you suggesting we get?
Posted 10:01 AM, 11/05/2008
Sully
The Phils will probably offer arbitration to Pat after they can't agree on years/dollars. If he's serious about wanting to still play here, he'll accept it. If not, he'll pull a Rowand and take the longest contract, wherever that is. Most likely an AL team, where they'll use him for DH when he gets TOO old and slow. Bill Lyon wrote about the Phillies and Philly having a "Complex Marriage" I view Burrell and us the same way. He could have been a marquee player in this town for many years (remember the CBP renderings with "Home Run Pat Burrell, Phils Win" on the scoreboard?) Those moments were too few and far between. Never an All-Star, only 1 Top 10 MVP vote, never lead the League in any hitting category. Pat did provide some much needed life for a dead franchise his first couple years, for that I'm grateful, but I won't be heart-broken if he doesn't come back. I just hope Rube brings in some other decent Right-handed bat.
Posted 09:54 AM, 11/05/2008
EL Zorro
Yeah, you right Jeff. My bad. My point was that we still need another righthanded bat and maybe two, even with Pat staying.
Posted 09:28 AM, 11/05/2008
jeff gross
Todd, any ideas who the phillies could/would/should get if Pat leaves? Obviously the idea of a three way platoon with all three lefties is not a serrious option, at best it is a stop gap move (I do't mind Dobbs playing LF every day, but who is the pinch hitter/ 3B
Posted 09:18 AM, 11/05/2008
jeff gross
El Zorro, if Pat stays, Jenkins and Dobbs ride teh bench. Werth plays right, Pat plays left and Victorino is in center. YOu need a Righ handed bat off the bench, but he can play any posistion
Posted 08:52 AM, 11/05/2008
Mark1npt
Now that people have their rings, it's always gonna be about the money....not sacrificing playing time or career numbers just to stay in a lovely city and win more titles.....Rowand showed that when he chose to leave, so will Burrell and eventually Hamels and Howard too....it takes a different kinda player to want to stay and continue to succeed....especially in this city. Good luck Rube, you're gonna need it.
Posted 08:08 AM, 11/05/2008
EL Zorro
In my opinion, they need another righthanded bat even if they keep Burell, to platoon with Jenkins or Dobbs in left or right. So Taguchi is gone, so you probably will need another RH bat. One option is to keep Tadahito Iguchi as an extra infielder, if you can convince him.
Posted 08:06 AM, 11/05/2008
bski
PAT H, I agree. While it would be nice to see Pat stay here, I don't want to repeat what happened after our run in 1993. We gave big contracts to Dykstra and Daulton that really hurt us later on. Pat was a big part of our success. He deserves credit for hanging tough through some bad years and turning it around. I'm glad to see him come out the other side and win a title. That said, it would be a mistake to overpay him (in terms of YEARS even more than in dollars).
Posted 02:21 AM, 11/05/2008
pat h
The 2008 season is officially over. Time for all of us to think with our heads and not our hearts. This in many ways is the Rowand situation all over again. Burrell wants more years, Phils will decline. Bye Bye Paddy.. We need to get younger to stay on top. Please lets not forget that Burrell is a liability in the field and on the bases. We have to burn a player every game for defense. His slumps can last for seasons. Maybe I'm being tough on him. Remember use your head and not your heart..I'd hate to lose Hamels or Howard in a money crunch because we felt sentimental about Burrell, and over paid him. Still thanks for the memories..
About Andy Martino
Andy Martino is in his first season on the Phillies beat. A former New York City public school teacher and graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, he previously wrote for the New York Daily News, where he covered baseball and worked with the award-winning investigative sports "I-team."
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