Backed Into A Corner Again
The Phillies suffered a bad 9-7 loss last night to the Nationals. They're three back of the Mets with 22 to play. That's not good.
Backed Into A Corner Again
Todd Zolecki
Wasted: Ryan Howard's two two-run home runs last night against the Nationals. (LUIS M. ALVAREZ / Associated Press)
Last Thursday's 6-4 loss to the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field looked and felt like the worst loss of the season.
Last night's 9-7 loss to the Nationals might have topped it.
The Nationals are a bad team. In fact, they entered last night's game at Nationals Park with the worst record in baseball.
The Phillies had a one-run lead in the seventh, but blew that when a tired Chad Durbin allowed a solo home run to Ryan Zimmerman. Things got worse in the eighth when Durbin and J.C. Romero couldn't keep it close. Sure, last Thursday's loss to the Cubs felt worse and looked worse. Durbin did give up a grand slam to Aramis Ramirez in the eighth inning. Cubs fans did rock Wrigley. But last night's game was worse because the Phillies dropped 2 of 3 against the Nationals.
It also dropped them three games behind the Mets in the NL East with 22 games to play.
"We battled back last year," Chase Utley said. "Now we have to battle back again."
"It's still there for us," Charlie Manuel said. "It's getting harder every time we get behind, of course. But it's still there."
It's still there, but the Phillies need to find some of that 2007 magic immediately. As bad as the Mets bullpen is, it's hard to believe that if the Mets get staked to another sizeable lead in the NL East they could blow it again. There's a reason why last season's comeback is considered historic -- it doesn't happen every year.
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More on Cole Hamels pitching Sunday against the Mets.
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In the Phillies Notebook: Kyle Kendrick's next start is uncertain. Next Monday? Late next week? Next season?
Comments (88)
I blame Pat Gillick. Instead of getting Rich Harden, we get fat Joe Blanton. We got no one to replace Tom Gordon in the set up role, which is why Chad Durbin is now struggling. And these hitters are so stupid, they let the Nats pitcher get out of an inning with 3 pitches.— Matt- This team is so mediocre. I hate to say it, but at this point, the Mets look waaaay better than the Phils. Everything the Phils are doing poorly at, the Mets are excelling at.— Clinton, NJ
- The Phils had one thing on the Mets this year.. a better bullpen. Not anymore.— doorspj24
- Wonder if it's time to skip Blanton in the rotation?? He's been very sporatic since joining the Phils. Heartbreaking loss last night because the bullpen has been so reliable all season it's sad to see it having such troubles of late.— KarenA
- Time to see some young arms. Happ, what have you got?— Joe in Haddonfield
- Matt and Karen have hit the nail on the head. Once again we went out and got us a pitcher who cant pitch. I'm all for giving the new guy a shot..we've done that. He hasn't eaten up innings, but been eaten up by hitters. he hasn't won, hasn't loss, just made our pen work harder, the exact opposite reason we got him. TIme to sit him down and start Happ, or even...dare I say...Eaton— jeff gross
Karen, did you just suggest skipping Blanton in the rotation?? He's actually been pretty solid since joining the Phils. And this isn't the playoffs, where you can go with Hamels/Myers/Moyer as your rotation. Two problems last night: 1- The bullpen was unable to shut down a weak Nats lineup after the starter got into trouble, and 2- STUPID and INDECISIVE play in the field (Ryan Howard continues to look like an inexperienced kid defensively). I know it's second-guessing, but I tend to agree with the point about staying with Eyre after he got 2 outs. I've never been a fan of getting too cute with pitchers. To me, you pull a guy when he can't get a batter out. Period.— bobby- I agree with giving some of the young kids a shot. Would it have hurt to start Golson instead of Bruntlett in right field last night? Can Lou Marson do any worse than Carlos Ruiz at the plate? And Happ has to start for Kendrick next time around. Lets not give up on fat Joe Blanton yet though.— Matt
- I hate how everyone keeps bringing up last year. We all know what happpens last year. The Phillies keep thinking something is going to happen to the Mutts like last year. Nothing is going to happen like last year, hate to say it. Time to step up and just play. No time to wait for someone else to fail.— Beef69
- A Philly fan forever ,I take the good with the bad but it hurts sometimes to loose games we should be winning.— Jumper
- All of you stepford Phillies "Phans", where are you now? This is why us bitter fans sepak the way we do. How could you NOT see this coming? I feel bad for Durbin as he has been awesome this year but the guy is beat. Gillick did nothing and don't tell me he is handcuffed by ownership either. He KNEW what he was getting into. He's been in baseball long enough and if he accepted the job, then shame on him. He's stealing a paycheck while living in Toronto and wearing those stupid Hawaiin shirts.— davekrieg
- I totally agree about Golson starting instead of Bruntlet. What a great steal he had. Marson isn't ready to start yet, ecpesially as we are in teh race still, but using him as a PH instead of Ruiz, or SO-what is a no brainer. As for Fat Blanton--I'm not giving up, just skipping him to let him take stock of himself. At this rate, he's next year's Eaton— jeff gross
- I'm all for giving young guys a chance to contribute, like resting an outfielder when needed or pinch-hitting in spots. But I'd be a little hesitant to throw Marson into the fire behind the plate at this stage. (I was all for bringing him up mid-season.) Remember people, when you swap Marson for Ruiz at the plate, you also impact the pitching for the entire game. The catcher has to be on the same page with both the pitcher and the coaches, reading signals and calling the game. Ruiz and Coste both are very familiar with the staff and have done a good job defensively this year. At this point, you do not mess with the pitcher-catcher relationship. Use Marson in spots, but I think you are asking for trouble starting him now.— bobby
- If the Bats didnt go cold for 2 1/2 months, it would be a totally different story. I blame the offense for all this mess!!— Clinton, NJ
- PEOPLE we are in the middle of a pennant race be realistic. You don't and can't change what should been considered at the begining of the season or the trade deadline. YOU are stuck w/Blanton and Bruntlet. It is what it is and it is Gillicks fault. He had no vision. This team did nothing to get over the 85-88 win plateau. Our best shot now is hoping the Brewers go into a tailspin and the Cards continue to be just as avg as the Phils. If the Phils do not win 2/3 this wknd its officially over...There will be no miracle this yr, we need a bigtime GM to come in and change the culture. If they go with Amaro or Arbuckle kiss this opportunity good bye and watch the window close....— Truth
- Yeah I wasn't saying to start Marson by any means. But use him as a pinch hitter instead of Ruiz, So Taguchi, Andy Tracy, Geoff Jenkins, or any of the other dead weight we have on this bench.— Matt
- They should have hired Hunsicker as GM before but Montgomery fell in love with Gillick. Now Hunsicker is the mover and shaker behind the T.B. Rays success. If they don't hire him and instead go with Amaro or Arbuckle, I'll be saying good bye.— bigtbone
- Stike one was losing four to LA, strike two was two gut-wreching losses to the Cubs (when they could have and should have swept them), and strike three was losing 2-3 to the Nats. Mark my words....stick a fork in 'em......the Phillies are done! Hey, at least they're relaxed!!!— Fan4Life
- No one is familiar with Blanton yet. That was a good time to start Marson. Have Dubee call the game from the dugout. This is why you give young players a cup of coffee throughout the season. They aren't getting their first MLB action in a playoff chase. They take most of the edge off earlier, go back, then come up in September and contribute. See Ellsbury last year for the Red Sox, among others. Charlie and Gillick are too old school to adapt on the fly and that is needed with an inconsistent team. Ride the hot hand, shake things up when a player goes cold.— Joe in Haddonfield
- I hate when Truth actually speaks the truth.— RollinsWasRight
- You mean to tell me, Gillick, that Happ or Carrasco or Carpenter could not have done what Blanton has done so far (4.34 ERA, 1 win in 9 starts, averaging 5.1 innings). The Phils would still have Outman, Cardenas and Spencer in the system and not be stuck with Blanton next year!— Dull
- I know we are in a pennant race, but I rather start Golson in center and Werth in right if I am going to get Victorino a day off. Brunlett is an utility guy. Golson is an outfielder.— EL Zorro
- Here's a riddle... The pages are full of comments from bitter (or let's say "less than happy") Phillies fans. Don't get me wrong...they should be bitter as the Phillies get ready to flush away a season when they should have clinched the division by now. The riddle is...why then, do the home games continue to sell-out game after game after game? Do you think Montgomery, Gillick, and good old Charlie read these posts?— Fan4Life
- Where is the heart? Where is the hustle? Where is the refuse to lose attitude? Where is the team that was never out of a game last year, no matter how bad the bullpen was? This team has lost its attitude. The one-year abberation is over, and the same ol' Phils are back...hang around, do nothing at the deadline, fade in September.— RollinsWasRight
- Fan4Life: Two reasons... #1. Some of us (I fall into this group) are baseball junkies, addicts; we just cannot stay away. #2. A night at the ballpark no longer has much to do with baseball; it is a night out drinking with the boys. Been down there lately? There may be 45,000 people there, but only half of them really care what is going on down on the field. Citizens Bank Park has become the new Old City - Philadelphia's trendy night spot.— RollinsWasRight
- Rollins: I also hate it when Truth has a point. In this case it's half a point as the Phillies did do things in off season and before trade deadline to improve the team. The problem is that none of them (except Lidge and Feliz) worked. Once again they proved that our biggest problem is our scouts and their (lack) of ability to determine good talent from bad or mediocre talent.— jeff gross
- I agree Dull. Also, the Philles gave the A's better prospect for Blanton than what they got from the Cubs for Harden.— EL Zorro
- I agree...CBP is a fun place to visit. With the games selling out continuously, why would Phillies management have made a major move at the trade deadline or added to the payroll? A sellout is a sellout! Are they going to sell more standing room only tickets? I guess you could say that playoff games bring in extra revenue. I know, because I was "fortunate" enough to visit the two playoff games last year, when Charlie helped to blow them right out.— Fan4Life
- One voter's message to the 2008 presidential candidates: Dear Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama, as a voter, I just wanted to let you know I am not all that fussed about your conflicting views on energy independence, how to stimulating a failing economy, how many homes you own, or if your former pastor is a racist. I really don't care much about whom either of you selected as a running mate. What I want each of you to realize is this: THE FIRST MAN TO PROMISE LEGISLATION THAT WOULD ALLOW THE TAX PAYING CITIZENS OF ANY CITY TO VOTE OUT OWNERSHIP OF ANY PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FRANCHISE WITHIN THAT CITY GETS MY VOTE.— RollinsWasRight
- I'll second ROllins' platform. The "Get rid of the owners" Party— jeff gross
- I guess that voting idea would work in every state except Florida, where they kind of do their own thing in an election. I went to see my doctor this morning. I asked him how I could lower my Blood Pressure and keep it in line. He replied, stop watching Phillies games!!!— Fan4Life
- jeff: I disagree. Other than Lidge, I did not like any of their offseason moves. I hated Jenkins, because he was more of the same. All-or-nothing, home run or strikeout moron who can't hit anything but a fastball. I felt the same about Feliz. I was livid with their uninspired offseason, which is why I did not renew my season tickets from last year. I had a 17-game package last year, and picked up another 6-pack, and ended up at probably 25-27 games in 2007. This year, I caved in the end, and did end up buying a 6-game pack, but I have bought no more, and without significant upgrades this offseason, and the hiring of an acceptable GM (read: one NOT NAMED Rueben Amaro... I have no issue with Arbuckle; I actually think he would be a worthy candidate), I will not be purchasing anything next year.— RollinsWasRight
- (I posted this comment in another article but it did not come out.) Rollins, we need a lot, including a new ownership. But they are not going anywhere as long as the Money Pit is making money while the Phillies keep flirting with the playoffs. They are businesspeople, which bought the team for 80 mil (wasn't it?). They won’t sell until it reaches the billion mark, and is getting there. Or maybe they won’t. I’ll be surprised if they even watch the games. The GM won't matter if they don’t sell to a ‘baseball’ owner, unless the new GM (an outsider) cleans the house (except for four or five position players and a couple of pitchers) and be creative with the budget he is going to get. Trade Howard for let's say to the Yankees for Robinson Cano and a couple of prospects and move Utley to first. With Burrell and Gordon’s money sign a top pitcher to go with Hamels and Myers and a setup guy for Lidge. And if you don't want to start Golson with Victorino and Werth, then get another outfielder with a combination of decent average and power. This team has to change. Too many guys hitting for the fences and not much fundamentals.— EL Zorro
- I like to think of it as the "Tax-Paying Sports Fan's Influence and Control Act"— RollinsWasRight
- The thing that really bothers me is, what do we do when the Mutts become the NL Yankees next year? The cheap ownership we have now. It is only going to get worse.— Beef69
- I would love voting the owners out. Remember when they made the threat of going to another state if the city did not put some money for the stadium? And Street caved in. We, the taxpayers, are paying for the stadium. That's why I hate when we suggest signings or trades and people say it's easy to spend other people's money. It's our money. We are paying twice: taxes and going to the park.— EL Zorro
- Rollins I disagree. I think that Feliz was a good pick up for his defence. With the line up they thought they had, and the offensive numbers they thought they'd put up, defence at third was a top priority. Junkins was and is a disaster. So-what is just that and Blanton, and the rest are just bodies taking up space. (this new outfielder may be decent-too soon to tell). The only other player they got who may be worth keeping is Eyre--but again, too soon to tell. This year, they need to upgrade at Catcher, upgrade their OF (I hope Pat is back, but they need a number 4 (Werth, Vic and Pat start). They need a set up guy instead of Flash and a starter instead of Eaton/Blanton. Whether Kendricks, who I like, is back depends on rest of year and grapefruit league. Rookies who should make team are Happ, Golson, Marson (longshot as Coste can't be number 1, and I can't imagine them having the Bal*s to start a rookie catcher.— jeff gross
- Jeff, I don't think you can go another year with Howard and Burrell back-to-back in the line-up, either batting Pat third or fifth. These two guys get into too many prolong slumps and they clog the bases. Then you have free swinging Feliz to wory about also. At least one of them (Howard or Burrell) needs to go. The easy one is not resigning Pat, and get the compensation in the draft. The Phillies need a new style of ball. More speed, more contact.— EL Zorro
- Zorro, gotta agree with that philosophy. They swing and miss way too d@mn much. They need fewer strikeouts in the lineup, more strikeouts on the pitching staff.— RollinsWasRight
- Whiel I agree that the Ks are way too high, and Pat and Howard shouldn't bat 1-2, I like both in the line-up. while both are streaky, when they are on a streak--watch out. The fourth of should be a contact hitter with a glove. This is my problem with Golson, he's another strikeout king. Of course, it we can trade for a real ace no one except Chase is off limits— jeff gross
- We need Aaron Rowand back in the clubhouse kicking tail and rallying the troops.— TripleOption
- We should start protesting outside the ballpark before every game... walk around with little picket signs that say "Take back the Team" and "Down with Apathetic Ownership". Start a campaign to screaming to be rid of Betts, Buck, Buck, Giles, Middleton and Montgomery.— RollinsWasRight
- Zorro, actually, I think it's worse than that... I believe the purchase price of the franchise was $30 million, way back when.— RollinsWasRight
- we definately need Rowland's .277 ave, his 51 runs 69 RBIs and 109 Ks. Hate to admit it, but Phils got rid of him at right time. He had a career year last year, won't ever do that again. He is a natural leader in clubhouse though. Perhaps we need to hire a "clubhouse leader"? I nominate Bowa--he could always fire up the troops— jeff gross
- RollinsWasRight wrote: "We should start protesting outside the ballpark before every game... walk around with little picket signs that say "Take back the Team" and "Down with Apathetic Ownership". ~Good luck with that. I'll be lookin' for ya next game.— bobby
- How would everyone feel about this offseason (I know, it is beyond a pipedream, but it is what I would try to accomplish in their place); trade Howard to Toronto for Roy Halladay, let Burrell walk. Give Golson the CF job, move Victorino back to right, Werth back to left. Use Burrell and Gordon's money, and a little extra, and sign Mark Texeira. Then you could pitch Halladay, Hamels, Myers, Blanton, Kendrick/Happ/Carrasco... Hit Rollins, Utley, Golson, Texeira, Victorino, Werth, Feliz, Ruiz/Coste/Marson— RollinsWasRight
- What does putting Golson in OF instead of Pat do? they both strike out loads (Golson makes howard look like a contact hitter) and Pat has more power. We aren't lacking speed in OF as it is. As for Howard, like him or not, he is the best power hitter in teh game. AS I've said repeatedly, if he hits 45 hr and 130 RBI a year, he can hit .250 as often as he wants. What we do need is a defensive replacement for him in late innings, ala Burrel.— jeff gross
- RollinsWasRight: can't forgot Moyer the sr. member of the pitching staff w/12 wins to date.— KarenA
- RollinsWasRight: I know you said it was a pipe dream, but Teixiera is looking for 10yrs/230 million. Since we won't pay Howard 8yrs/150 million, I really don't see the Phils going even longer and higher for ANYBODY. Howard for Halladay is ok with me, but how about Howard for Matt Cain (plus a bit more) as an alternative? How about this from Jayson Stark today: • Fresh Prince: During one of our recent chats, a reader proposed a fascinating trade for this winter -- Prince Fielder to the Giants for Matt Cain. The Brewers will need an ace to replace CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets. The Giants need power. It ain't crazy. So can it happen? Dubious, but possible. First off, according to an official of one club that has already felt out the Brewers on their tentative offseason game plan, Fielder is "definitely someone they'll listen on. They told us they're willing to listen on him, Bill Hall, [J.J.] Hardy and [Rickie] Weeks in the right [i.e., humongous] deal." Second, it's clear the Giants have deployed their scouts all over baseball in the second half looking for power at the infield corners. And Fielder is one of the mashers believed to be high on their list. OK, now here's the biggest hang-up: Giants GM Brian Sabean has told clubs repeatedly that he has no interest in busting up the best thing his team has going for it -- the power 1-2 combo of Cain and Tim Lincecum. But if it meant a realistic chance to deal for Prince Fielder, wouldn't he have to rewrite his script? "Brian has been saying he won't trade one of those two pitchers for anyone," said one NL executive. "But if you're asking me, he ought to reconsider. If they want to get that kind of player, they're going to have to trade Matt Cain to get it.".......If the Giants are looking for power at the infield corners, Howard certainly qualifies. He should be able to land us Cain and then some.— bski
- This is a huge weekend for the Phils. They lose to the Mets and follow up with so-so games against the Marlins, there will be lot of season ticket holders who won't be sending in their money for playoff tickets by the 12th. Based on their play so far, I'm leaning heavily to not bother. I'm with bigtbone and rollins, if they stay in house with company men like Amaro or Arbuckle as GM, I'm not renewing. This ownership doesn't have a clue on what it takes to win and I'm tired about being pixxed off about it. I'll be a fan, but they won't get my money anymore.— jimmymack
- bobby: it was just a suggestion. I am completely out of ideas, but desperate to think of some way the fans can try to bully ownership out of town. jeff: the purpose is to try to develop a complete team. Pat is simply a half a year player, and for the 2 1/2 to 3 months that he kills the lineup, is not worth what he is going to command. Besides, the lineup could use more speed, and the purpose of hitting Golson behind Utley and in front of a legit threat is to get a young free-swinger better pitches to swing at. As far as Howard, you and I are simply always going to disagree. I think the guy is wasting his potential by being content to be Dave Kingman, when he could be so much better; when he could be a freak the likes of which this game hasn't seen in decades...and I also feel he hurts a team at least as much as he helps; plus, how else are you going to get a stud pitcher in here? I do believe that 20 wins and a sub-3.00 ERA is more valuable over the course of a season than 45 HRs (depending on how the team is constructed). Karen: I did not forget, but his contract is up after this year, and if I were making the decisions, I would be loathe guarantee anything to a 46 yr. old pitcher.— RollinsWasRight
- bski: I know. It was more "how I wish things would get done" than it was even remotely hopeful that is was at all possible. As for Matt Cain, it is a nice idea, but would be entirely contingent upon what "else" you get. Not being overly familiar with Giants organization, I couldn't even speculate as to what else would be enough.— RollinsWasRight
- If your going to dump Pat and Howard, then you have to get an outfielder who can bat leadoff. One of our major problems is that Rollins is an ideal number 2 hitter but a lousy lead off man. Not enough OBP. As for Golson, put him on bench as number 4 OF and your line up could look like: new OF, Rollins, Utley,Texeira,Werth, Victorino, Feliz, Ruiz/Coste/Marson— jeff gross
- Jimmymack-finally lines up against this organization in advance of the new GM which we know will be an in-house selection! Its about time guy--— Truth
- jimmymack: Even if they get hot, take 2 of 3 from the Mets, chase them down, and win the division by 1 game again, would you still shell out money for tickets next year just because they snuck into the playoffs despite their refusal to improve the obvious weaknesses on the team? Personally, my ticket purchases for next season depend entirely on what they do in the offseason, and it no longer matters how hard they "try". I don't care if they "tried" to get Alfonso Soriano. I don't care if they "tried" to get Mike Lowell. I don't care if they "tried" to get CC Sabathia. I don't care if they "tried" to get Manny. My ticket purchases from here on out are entirely dependent upon which players they "succeed" in getting. And if they do not add 3 MAJOR pieces, they ain't gettin' much from me next year. I don't necessarily mean superstars, but legitimate, quality, major league players. They need a LEGIT middle-of-the-order contact bat that can drive in runs...They need a LEGIT top-of-the-rotation starting pitcher to pair with Hamels...They need a LEGIT 8th inning set-up man. No matter how this season ends, if they do not accomplish all three of those things, they will see far fewer of my dollars next year. (I wish I could see they would see none, but I honestly do not have that kind of will power.)— RollinsWasRight
- jeff: I would love to do as you suggest, but who is reasonably going to be available that fits that mold? I suppose Willy Taveras from Colorado could be had in trade, but other than that... There just are not that many traditional CF/lead-off hitters anymore.— RollinsWasRight
- I fail to see why everyone is so dead set against Mike Arbuckle getting the GM job. It doesn't matter, they're going to give it Reuben, and I don't want him anymore than anyone else does, but I would have no issue with Mike Arbuckle as the next GM of this team. In fact, I think it would make sense.— RollinsWasRight
- rollins, don't need to be CF. Vic can play center and so can Werth. The new guy can play any OF posisition he wants. Where's Bake McBride? I also can't think of a name to go with the need, but there must be one player out there. Come on people, who is he???— jeff gross
- Well, our only saving grace might be that, over the last few years, we've had the best record in the league in September. And as I posted in the last topic......The bullpen might be tanking because they're being "used too much. But what are they going to do IF we make the post season???? Get it together, boys!!!— Norma
- Rollins, two names come to mind, though I cant' imagine how we get them. Damon from NYY, and Winn from the Giants. Both are batting over .300 and are contact hitters. both even play CF.— jeff gross
- I don't think Texeira is going anywhere. Art Moreno, the Angels owner, is another Mark Cuban. And if Texiera walks, the Yankees are going to be all over him, and if that is the case, don't be surprise to see the Red Sox get into the mix to prevent the Yankees from signing him. The asking price is going to be way out of the Phillies range. How about Juan Pierre from the Dodgers. I don't know how much gas is left in his tank, but he was a nice lead off guy no long ago. Start him for one year until Golson is ready. Howard for Halladay I'll do it in an minute. Then with Pierre, we'll become the Cardinals of the 80's. We need a first baseman, like Jack Clark, though, and a Whitey Herzog kind of manager.— EL Zorro
- Rollins: I dropped my tickets in 2005 as a protest against the Wade regime and came back in 2006. Will I renew if they make the playoffs? Like you, I'll make that decision when I see if the front office makes any SIGNIFICANT moves on the GM and player front. Will they miss me, no, but I'll feel better not giving these owners any money. Will I miss going, hell yes, but at some point you just get tired of the same lame management not doing what it takes. And Truth, I've always disliked the present (Giles/Monty) management of this team...like the team, think the management is clueless on how to take the big step on putting a championship roster on the field. I had high hopes for Gillick, but this year he clearly wins the Ed Wade award for useless pickups (ecluding Lidge), which also taints Amaro and to some degree Arbuckle. Personally, I'd love to embarras this ownership with a turnout (600) like the Marlins got yesterday during a national TV game, but that won't happen.— jimmymack
- There is also Coco Crisp (Boston) that reminds me, other than a nice cereal, of Victorino.— EL Zorro
- jeff: Yeah, I know this mythical player doesn't need to be a CF; I just meant the general player "mold". Plus, despite his speed, I liked Victorino a lot better in right. His footwork and incessant back-pedaling scare me in center sometimes. Actually, Randy Winn is a really good name for what we are discussing here.— RollinsWasRight
- Now that they have another catching prospect in the minors (the one they did not want to trade for Farnsworth) I would include one (Jaramillo or Ruiz) along with Kendrick in the Howard for Halladay trade, and also get Alexis RÃos in return. He is a five-tool talent. I don't think Toronto is going to sign him after he becomes a free agent because of the money they gave Vernon Wells. I think they also need a catcher. Remember they signed Rod Barajas last year.— EL Zorro
- jimmymack: Amen, brother. Amen.— RollinsWasRight
- to be real honest, what I really want is to reincarnate teh '80 team and see some real baseball played in this city again. Oh well, dreams are great, too bad they can't be reality— jeff gross
- jeff: I was 3 yrs. old in '80. I don't even remember that team, or '83. The only winner I remember is that dirtbag, rioded up bunch of misfits in '93. Yeah, they were fun, and I will always have fond memories, but still... enough is enough. Down with Betts, Buck, Buck, Giles, Middleton and Montgomery! (Actually, there may be 3 Bucks in the picture, I am not real clear on that one... I know there are 3 Buck brothers, but it may be only two of them have a stake in the franchise... who knows with this invisible, secret bunch)— RollinsWasRight
- How about a couple other tidbits from Jayson Stark: "• Standing Pat: There has been an outbreak of optimistic reports out of Philadelphia about the likelihood of the Phillies being able to re-sign Pat Burrell this winter. But our take is: Not so fast. Burrell clearly wants to stick around. And the Phillies appear to realize that if he leaves, their free-agent options are messy. But as they mull their offer to Burrell, they have a major disadvantage that other teams wouldn't face: The biggest concern all National League teams would have about Burrell is whether he would be able to play defense through the life of a three-year or four-year deal, in a league with no DH. But only the Phillies would have to worry that he would become a 10-and-5 man about seven weeks into Year 2 of any contract -- meaning he could block a deal to the American League. So while the Phillies are more motivated to sign him now than they were a few months ago, there is no indication they have wavered from their belief that they can't afford to give him more than two guaranteed years. And there undoubtedly would be longer deals out there elsewhere. So this negotiation will be a real test of just how much he really wants to stay.".....If the best the Phils come up with is a 2 year offer, you've got to figure Burrell is as good as gone.— bski
- and this: • Take the Stairs: One of the least-talked-about ripple effects of the Phillies' trade last week for Matt Stairs is that he's not a rent-a-player. He's signed for next year, too, at $1 million. So why would the Phillies deal for someone like that? It's uncertainty about Burrell and their 2009 outfield that convinced them it was worth at least adding Stairs to their 2009 inventory. Stairs will be 41 next year. So no NL team would view him as a regular -- or even a platoon outfielder anymore. But if Burrell exits, the Phillies would be more likely to piece together outfield at-bats among a bunch of players than make a major free-agent run at somebody like Adam Dunn or Milton Bradley. So they're not ruling out anybody or anything right now......I don't like the thought of Stairs in a Phils uniform next year. I am even more disturbed by the fact that they might be content to piece together outfield at-bats rather than make a run at a free agent. Yikes!— bski
- I was 14 in '80 and was lucky enough to be at the 6th game sitting in teh 200 level of the old Vet. What a team, what a series. Anyway, what I really miss is the Carpenters and their class act. They brought good ball to teh city and treated the players properly. Think about this: Boone, Bowa, Michael Jack, Bull, all came up through the farm system and played at least 10 years in Phila. That is building a team— jeff gross
- I take the Rios comment back. He was extended in April after signing a one-year deal before arbitrarion. But the Jays have a surplus of young outfielders. One of them is Travis Snider, their 2006 first rounder, that was called up in September. He may stay in the majors. They also have Adam Lind to go with Wells and Bratt Wilkerson. Rios was almost traded in December to the Giants. It's worth looking into it.— EL Zorro
- bski: Agreed. I did not realize Stairs was signed for another year. So now, in our desperate attempt to make a move, and stubborn insistence on not making a GOOD move, we have added Matt Stairs and Joe Blanton for 2009 as well. Wonderful. Plus, they still have another year of the Eaton contract left, and we know they will not simply cut bait with him. Ugh... 2009 is looking ugly already. And I agree, if they cannot do better than 2 guaranteed years for Burrell, he is "Outta HEEEEEERE" no matter how much he likes the city.— RollinsWasRight
- If they wanted to play Werth more next year, and keep Stairs and Golson as their 4th and 5th OF's, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But that plan is contingent upon them getting a legit run producing, contact hitting corner OF, and the OF pickin's are slim this offseason. Not to mention, we know they won't make that move even if the right guy IS available. "Piecing together outfield ABs" is unnacceptable. Simple unnacceptable. I will not pay to watch that.— RollinsWasRight
- Zorro, I like the idea, but I don't think Toronto is really interested in moving Rios. I think they want to keep him and the young guys, and move Wells. Plus, I doubt that Howard, Kendrick and Ruiz/Jaramillo is enough for Rios and Halladay... you would probably have to replace Kendrick in that deal with Carrasco, and then you might get them talking.— RollinsWasRight
- I don't think they'll keep Stairs, when you have Jenkins and Dobbs in your roster. He'll be gone either by trade or released. There are a lot of decisions to be made in the offseason: Keeping Burrell, picking the option on Moyer; how about Howard, do you extend him, trade him or risk arbitration and whatever is the fallout?; there is also the sensitive negotiations with Hamels; what to do with the young players (Golson, Marson, Happ)?; If you keep Marson, who is the odd man out, Ruiz or Coste; who is going to be the setup guy?; How about Eaton?; Can we afford to have Eaton, an older Moyer and Kendrick in your pitching staff? That's a lot of question.— EL Zorro
- Happ may do it also, but they have a bunch of pitching prospects. Maybe another bat, but we don't have anybody, other than Marson and Donald, in the minors,... unless we involve antoher team.— EL Zorro
- Marson is not going to make the team next year. You know they insist that a young player get a least a year of AAA ball before they will depend on him. They will start Marson, Golson, Donald and Carrasco at AAA, and look for opportunities to bring them up for brief stints, ala Chase Utley and Ryan Howard. To go into next year knowing you have Hamels, Myers, Blanton and Kendrick, with an option on Moyer, is frightening. If you let Moyer go, and replace him with a front-line guy, slot Myers back to #3, Blanton #4 and Kendrick #5, that is a pretty decent rotation. But to count on the five they have now, with 3 of them pitching above their appropriate rotation slot, is bad news, especially when you factor in that Eaton will still be around, and they will still try to force him on us at some point.— RollinsWasRight
- Zorro: That was my thinking also. I know, if I am the Toronto Blue Jays in this scenario, I insist on Howard, Carrasco and Marson before I even start talking. I wouldn't place any value on Kendrick at all, or Ruiz, and very little on Jaramillo. And of course, the Phillies cannot afford to move Carrasco OR Marson, much less both. They need Carrasco to make the ML squad and pitch effectively before Cole Hamels reaches FA, and they need Marson to supplant Ruiz at some point in the near future. Ruiz has just been a disappointment. He isn't even throwing out potential base stealers as well as he did last year.— RollinsWasRight
- If Marson doesn't make the team, either Jaramillo, Coste or Ruiz have to go. They won't keep Jaramillo in Tripe A as a backup or Coste for that matter. I'm afraid that they may carry an extra pitcher because of Eaton and the bench will shrink. I can't imagine having Condrey and Eaton as our long men. If you resign Burrell, then Charlie is going to be short of another pinch hitter in the bench, like in 2007, because you have to replace him.— EL Zorro
- A little more on Howard and Burrell. This time from Ken Rosenthal....From August 22nd: "With Ryan Howard looking at maybe a $14MM salary in his second year of arbitration, the Phillies could shop him this winter. Rosenthal lays out a scenario where they trade Howard and use some of those young players to acquire Matt Holliday. In this scenario Pat Burrell could be re-signed to play first base. I was surprised to see that a club official sees the chances of retaining Burrell as better than 50-50".....From August 31st: "* The Phillies want Pat Burrell back, and they feel they have a better than 50-50 chance of re-signing him because Burrell has mutual interest. Rosenthal thinks Burrell should command somewhere between $14MM and $17MM per season. * Rosenthal discusses the Rockies' offseason, throwing out the usual suspects (Matt Holliday, Garrett Atkins, and Todd Helton) as possible trade pieces. Rosenthal points out Helton's salary makes him difficult, and also proposes a scenario in which the Rockies trade both Atkins and Holliday, sign Burrell to play left field, and move Ian Stewart to third base full-time."......So apparently there are som possibilities out there. I hope so because, from the looks of what I posted before, I'm getting concerned about 2009 already.— bski
- Not Looking Good !!!!!! Average Pitching.....— Lucky
- I don't think Burrell is going to get that much the way he is hitting lately, unless he finishes very strong. I think $12 million is reasonable, because he is making a lot and he cannot get a big paycut under the CBA. I don't see the Rockies paying that much for him. Why let Holliday go, and Atkins for that matter, and sign Pat for that money?— EL Zorro
- I will be back after that stupid Sixers ad/popup/nonsense goes away.— Joe in Haddonfield
- phillies funeral monday... everyone invited... LETS GO METS!!!— tauclass
- I dont understand how Burrell can only hit for a half a season.He either gets hot in the begining and stinks in the 2nd hald or vice versa. It's a mystery!!!!— Clinton, NJ
- Hamels -------- 3 years (36 wins 21 losses) 68 Hrs 3.42 ERA Kendrick ------ 2 years (21 wins 12 losses) 36 Hrs 4.53 ERA Average it out and there is a difference of 1.9 wins & 1 loss per year. Hamels wins in ERA but serves up more HRs/yr 22 for Hamels; 18 for Kendrick. While there is no doubt Cole has developed into an ace Kyle is not doing all that badly its just the timing of the whole mess that causes it to be more than it is.— Wally 24
- Anybody think Gillick's gone come back for a visit ? He has been worse than Wade. At least Wade cared about the Phils. Gillick was hear to build up his bank account. He's taking his money and getting out of Philly. I compare him to the ex-sixers coach Doug Moe. Montgomery should be relieved of his duties for hiring Him. The guy(Giliick) flat out stole our money. Yah our money. Sellout after sellout, Great fans that we are....— pat h
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
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