Amaro's delicate position
It's rare for Ruben Amaro Jr. to acknowledge a rumor, no matter how baseless it is. The recent reports of the Phillies general manager calling other teams for an idea how much Cole Hamels et al. are worth were not baseless.
Amaro's delicate position
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
(David Maialetti/Staff Photographer)
ON A TRAIN — It's rare for Ruben Amaro Jr. to acknowledge a rumor, no matter how baseless it is. The recent reports of the Phillies general manager calling other teams for an idea how much Cole Hamels et al. are worth were not baseless.
They were true; invariably, an executive from a team Amaro phoned leaked details to a national writer and a story is born.
Amaro, in turn, went on the offensive Monday by seeking forums in local media to spread his message: We're not waving the white flag. And he's probably not lying. Just because the Phillies called other teams hardly means a trade is imminent.
I don't believe Amaro has decided to sell yet. He is, of course, considering it — no matter what he says.
"A lot of these rumors are products of the timing and way we're playing," Amaro said. "This is what happens in July. You have a team that's not playing very well, and we have very good players. We are going to get these types of rumors out there. I just want to make sure people understand where we stand."
Where they stand is on the brink. No decision to sell must be made today, tomorrow, or next week. Part of the decision to sell will be dependent on what the Phillies can receive for said trade chips. Thus, the phone calls were made.
Part of the problem is this: The national reports were hardly wrong. But the fan reaction was.
Trades develop over weeks, sometimes months. Usually, the first step is to ask around to see what Player X could possibly net. Then the front office assesses and determines the next course of action.
"Shopping" and "trading" are two totally different steps.
Amaro and the rest of the organization — from Charlie Manuel to his players — speak with optimism. They believe a postseason berth is attainable, partially because there are now two Wild Cards, but mostly because Ryan Howard and Roy Halladay will return sometime in July.
So the GM wants the focus to be his team, right now, on the field. It's hard not to blame others for shifting their attention elsewhere.
***
There are plenty of factors, most of them undetermined, that will go into Hamels' value on the trade market.
Bob Ford delves into the many layers of the Hamels situation and sees the lefthander ultimately leaving.
Have a question? Send it to Matt Gelb's Mailbag.
Comments (51)
what happened to David Murphy after he dared place the blame on Amaro?— warbiscuit- while Amaro has brought zero young talent to Phils in 3 1/2 years he's so utterly incabable of judging talent that he gives away the accidentally good players that come his way: see what Brandon Moss, Grilli, Vogelsong are doing for other teams this year --he gave them away for free because they didn't have a "name" so Rube would rather sign Kendrick and Schneider— warbiscuit
- Brandon Moss --on the Phils last yr but given away for free- would rank 3rd on team in hrs -not only hasn't rube acquired a single good young player in 3 1/2 years, but he has let go the accidentally good players that have fallen in his lap: Grilli, Vogelsong, Moss --amaro has absolutely zero ability to assess players or talent - no other g.m in history would have given $7.6 million to a completely talentless Kendrick— warbiscuit
- WB - is Kendrick's deal finished after this season or after next season? — coloradoeagle
- What you fail to mention about Brandon Moss is that he has only played in 22 games this year with a .247 BA. Yeah, he would be a huge help for the Phils.
— TexColorado - Amaro is incompetent. He has no business being a GM in baseball. None. Why don't we let Rube and Howie exchange jobs? The results would probably not differ too greatly at all.— coloradoeagle
- Sportswriting in this town is horrific. Stop focusing on the players who we don't have, and instead evaluate the performance of those who have been taking the field day-to-day. With the exception of Ruiz, from day one of this season, the players have been playing sloppy, uninspired baseball. The issues go beyond the injured list, and none of you so-called journalists are writing about any of that. You should be ashamed that fans have to turn to national media rather than local media to get any real stories or information.— DameB
- A real GM would see that the manager has lost touch with his players. I remember a time when Charlie would bench J-Pop for not running out a ground ball or pop up. If a typical fan can see that a change needs to be made than what is the so called GM thinking? This team even with all the injuries should not even be close to being 10 games below .500!!! If I was one of the owners of this team I would hold RAJ and Charlie accountable instantmatically! Ryno deserves a shot at the ML level and bring in Jimmy Williams to help him out as his bench coach. Trade Polanco and Victorino and then see what happens the rest of this year. At least we as fans can see you are trying to do anything to get this team to show some life!!! Hope the Mets sweep these dead men walking...then maybe it will force RAJ or anyone in the Phillies ownership to do something!!!— tralala
- If people want to focus on something productive, ask what's wrong with Bastardo and can it be fixed. He's lost control and velocity, which could mean many things. He's also lost a number of games for the Phillies, and the team cannot afford any more.— JayW
- Kendrick was eligible for arbitration last winter and Amaro was so "concerned" about keeping this marginal "talent" that he not only first agreed to binding arbitration but he then agreed to settle and pay Kendrick's submitted high number for 2 years (so he is paying close to 3.8 mil for each of this year and next)... note that this is less than pitchers like Capuano got on the free market; even if Amaro wanted to keep Kendrick as "insurance" he could have retained him for 2012 and the arbitrator would have simply picked either kendrick's or the team's number.. in short, this was plain idiocy and not hindsight as observers like crashburnalley on espn (and me) were dumbfounded that the g.m. could be so clueless both on evaluating the "talent" and on the business end...now because Amaro would be forced to admit a $7.6 million mistake, expect kendrick to remain on team at least until mid-2013 when there will only be half a year of wasted salary left, much like Rube did with Baez who was awful for 3 years BEFORE gave him a 2-year deal, and he then remained on Phils team losing games for 1 1/2 yrs before Amro was finally willing to let go that obvious mistake— warbiscuit
- Why do you hate on Kendrick so much? He's having a bad year this year, I agree. But is he the only one? For his career he is 45-38 with a 4.51 ERA. Coming into this year, he was 43-30 with a 4.41 ERA. That's not bad for a 4th or 5th starter. And $3.8 mil/year is not crazy money for a 4th or 5th starter either. And maybe his stats would be better if he had a real pitching coach to work with.
— TexColorado - I'm amazed at all the Benedict Arnolds out there, now turning on RAJ. Way to go phans. If I'm not mistaken, the confetti was flying when he traded for Halladay, then resigned Lee. Corks were flying off bottles when he traded for Roy Oswalt mid 2010. Rose pedals were being tossed his way when Hunter Pense was acquired last year. He didn't succumb to Boris' power play and overpay for Jayson Werth, intstead took a fly on Hunter Pense (better number, less money, thats what good GM's do). His goal and ours as fans was to remain hightly competative during this window of opportunity. It wasn't his fault that Utley pulled the wool over all our eyes in February. It wasn't his fault that Howard's physcian's were not on top of the issue with a chronic surgical infection 4 months post-surgery. It wasn't his fault that that 1/2 his bullpen were out for the season (Stutes, Herndon, and Contreras). Qualls was signed to be the last piece of the pen, NOT to be the 8th inning guy. Put someone in a position they are not accustomed to, they will fail. RAJ didn't know Halladay would be hurt and miss 2 months of the season. RAJ didn't know Vance Worley would be out a month with bone chips in his pitching elbow. Lance Nix, Ty Wiggington, Jim Thome and Juan Pierre were not signed to be everyday players. Again, put people in positions they are not accustomed to, they fail. Utley was supposed to be ready by April...remember that folks? A healthy rotation of Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Worley, and Blanton would have kept us high in the standings. Howard's return by June 1 would have meant the team would be back at full strength with 4 months to go. In fact, check out the standings as of June 1, 2012, even w/o Utley and Nix and Halladay. The plan was there. In the end, the team is a victim of circumstances not even Nostradamus could have predicted. And this of course, is RAJ's fault. NOT.— drhoffman
- Although there is truth in what you say, there must always be a fall guy when things go wrong. In sports, wrath is usually laid at the feet of the manager or the GM. In this case, it's a tossup as to who is more of a lightening rod for this team's season- Amaro or Manuel. One of them needs to be roasted. Since Manuel won a WS on his watch and Amaro hasn't, it's only fair that RAJ is the main target. The Rollins signing wasn't very bright (with Galvis in the wings) and the Pence trade looks lopsided now, but other than these two questionable moves Amaro has pretty much done what any one of us would have done if in his shoes. But, as I said, there is always a fall guy when things to wrong. It's human nature that can't be argued away logically.
— Sam Crow - For this Phillies squad to have any shrd of hope of making the playoffs, then they must start playing each and every game as if the playoffs have already begun...period!— doug1834
- @drhoffman: You know better than to arrive at these boards with logic.— drbob1
- Maybe the first move the Phillies should make is to bring back Pat Gillick. The Phillies have steadily gone down hill since Pat's retirement. Amaro seems to be a one-trick pony - overspend on bloated contracts.— Knut
- good gen. managers are the ones that bring in players that play as a team and push the right buttons, not ones that make the easy decisions (Doc, Lee - who was begging to come here, and Oswalt). good ones also expect and plan for the unexpected. when you spend the amount of money this team does, a last place team (spare me the excuses)is unacceptable.— tim17600
- good gen. managers are the ones that bring in players that play as a team and push the right buttons, not ones that make the easy decisions (Doc, Lee - who was begging to come here, and Oswalt). good ones also expect and plan for the unexpected. when you spend the amount of money this team does, a last place team (spare me the excuses)is unacceptable.— tim17600
- Fail to grasp the logic of not being able to project sub-par performance from historically sub-par players. Seems to me the 'logic' was Booben's anticipation that sub-par would suddenly perform above the historical. Moreover, Ultey and Howard's injuries were hardly mysteries. Logically speaking, Booben overextended the payroll thereby effectively limiting the ability of the Phillies to address these issues with free agent signings. Bad logic, ill-considered decisions, and plenty of hubris.— DameB
- RAJ is responsible for the "Cliff Lee to Seattle for 3 hockey pucks" trade, which easily is the worst Phillies trade since Ryne Sandberg to the Cubs. He is in over his head and he can't get us out of this mess. Now that we're rebuilding again, give the job back to Ed Wade. We can fire him again when we're ready to compete for the playoffs and he doesn't have the stones to pull off a good trade deadline deal to get us over the hump.— YodelInTheVlly
Comment removed.
DrHoffman ... well put. But I agree with DrBob. :)— zubzub- Amaro is the anti-Gillick...while Gillick let go some of Phils best players because they were aging and not worth extending or blocking the young potential (Abreu, Rowand, Thome), Amaro not only extended aging and rapidly declining players well beyond their value and useful career (Moyer, Blanton, Howard, Rollins), but overpaid for other aging rapidly declining players (Ibanez, Polanco, Oswalt)...while Gillick found diamonds in the rough who ended up being sigificant players (Werth, Victorino), Amaro in 3 1/2 years has acquired literally zero young good players and even let go the few diamonds in the rough (Grilli, Vogelsong ) who happened to have fallen in his lap... while Gillick gave opportunity for young talent on Phils to develop and succeed (Howard, Hamels, Madson), Amaro discarded a dozen prospects and messed up the supposed "can't miss" (Brown)...while Gillick brought in complementary players to give the Phils an excellent bench, bullpen, depth and balance to win the championship (Romero, Durbin, Stairs, Iguchi, Coste, etc), Amaro "complemented" his big stars with cheap useless trash (Schneider, Francisco, Baez, Herndon, Martinez, Bowker, Qualls, etc) so that even when the Phils were still good in regular season they lacked depth, balance, bench and bullpen and so failed in post-season anyway— warbiscuit
- You never did get over getting cut from your Little League team. — RW
- Hamels sees the future and it's not here. The Phils will be fighting to stay out of last place for the next couple years and it won't be a fun place to pitch. Meanwhile, he'll get $150 million to play for a strong contender at a team of his choice. He's smiling, knowing this will all be happening in a few months, whether the Phils trade him or not.— farley
- Hamels sees the future and it's not here. The Phils will be fighting to stay out of last place for the next couple years and it won't be a fun place to pitch. Meanwhile, he'll get $150 million to play for a strong contender at a team of his choice. He's smiling, knowing this will all be happening in a few months, whether the Phils trade him or not.— farley
- yodel, worst trade? I seem to recall a GM trading Floyd and that Gio guy for 1-win Freddy... and Cliff Lee is back in Philly, btw. all he did was blow a 4 run lead in game 2 of the NLDS.— palmyra21
- Comment removed.
- biscuit, gillick traded away Gio. Signed Eaton. Signed that Jenkins guy. the point is every GM isn't perfect. Also, Howard and Hamels made that decision easy. Ed Wade would have made space for them to play. Hardly a difficult decision.— palmyra21
- It's July and he still hasn't been able to sign Hamels. He HAS to ask around at this point. It is obvious the two sides are far part or else a deal would have been done by now.— UncleStosh
- Oh. I was thrown off. I thought Amaro's delicate position had to do with him taking a job as GM of a World Series champion, given carte blanche to double the payroll and ending up with a team mired in last place and a roster full of either untradeable contracts or aging cast-offs. In the course of doubling the payroll and showering untold riches on players well past their primes, he was unable to lock up the franchises' best home grown pitcher since Robin Roberts. You'd think somebody who accomplished all that would be relieved of his responsibilities. That's the delicate position I'm thinking about.— jtj10
- With something like a 3% chance on making the playoffs, Amaro is right to call around to see what the interest is on his players. There is little to no chance that the Phillies go 55-26 or better over the second half and make the playoffs. It would be foolish to keep Hamels after July 31 with no contract and hope that your offer is the best in November. If Hamels won't sign, and all indications are that he won't, then they have to trade him. If they are trading him to the Dodgers, I'm sure they would wait until after the Phillies go to LA, but if it is some other team (Ideally, Texas), then they can send him packing the weekend after the All Star Break.
Also, trade Victorino, Polanco, any of the bench players and ideally Rollins but I don't see that happening. Get some useful young pieces in here that can contribute at the ML level next year, then use the savings from Hamels, Victorino, Blanton, etc being gone to fill in the holes. Maybe sign Bourn or Cabrera to play center or maybe sign Greinke to be your third starter behind Halladay and Lee, with Worley and Cloyd to follow. Point is that they need to find a way to get younger at 3B, SS, LF and CF next season and trading their marketable pieces will get them that (ie Olt, the rangers CF prospect, etc). A line up of Bourn, Rollins, Utley, Howard, Pence, Olt, Brown, Ruiz, Pitcher would be pretty decent to pair with a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Worley, Greinke (or a FA pitcher), and Cloyd. It will at least give us more hope for next season than letting Hamels walk for nothing, or giving Hamels $28 mil a year and having $80 mil tied up in your top three starters and hoping to nickel and dime your way to generate offense at 3B, LF and CF.— sjuhawk416 - Amaro is funny. He says the way we are playing gives people reasons for trade rumors. They are playing that way because thats as good as they can play and he is the one that put this team on the field.
Before Utleys injury his production was down and he didn't seem to be the same ballplayer he was. Why would anyone let alone a GM think that after the injury he would return to form.?
The same with Rollins. His production has dropped steadily and shouldn't have been signed to a 3 year deal.He has a couple good games and then disappears and shouldn't be leading off.
No one knows if Howard will ever be the same .
Pence needs to be in the AL as he just can't play the field and has left many ,many runners in scoring position.His HR totals are misleading.
He knew Thome couldn't play the field anymore and that Howard would be out. Why pick a guy who could only pinch hit or play against the AL when you need a first baseman who can play everyday until Howard gets back?
He has no choice having depleted the farm system into trading away some of the current players who we are not winning with anyway.
Good pitching is great but players who help you everyday are better and good hitters can make up for average pitching.— gardner - Everybody seems to assume that Amaro makes all these personnel decisions in a vacuum.
The fact is, that with the Phillies, the decisions are made by commitee rather than one person.
Amaro may be the spokesperson but he is far from having complete control.
The Phillies have operated this way for many years now.
Whatever happens at the trading deadline or before, you can rest assured that Amaro is just one voice and opinion in the direction the Phillies want to go.— candidly - @palmyra -yes you repeat the same rejoinder every time you decide to pipe up with your same drivel-- Gillick made some bad (awful) moves and moved on and made enough terrific moves to win 3 World Championships and build up 4 franchises and go to Hall Of Fame...Amaro by contrast has one zero champiionships and has simply destroyed a franchise for the 3 dozen reason I've delineated ad nauseum for past year— warbiscuit
- Ruben Amaro is an employee … with a boss.
I don’t believe that any general manager runs a high profile team like the Phillies without plenty of assistance from advisors (Gillick), scouts, assistants, etc. and also a great deal of input from the ownership; including financial leeway and/or limits.
But let’s assume that Amaro does have the keys to the kingdom. And let’s assume that his job is evaluated like any other.
1) Phils, in the past three years, have won more games and sold more tickets than at any time in their history.
2) Phils, in the past three years, have won more games and sold more tickets than any other team in baseball.
Whether some of you like him or not … he’s not getting fired any time soon.
So keep calling him names and calling for his head. I’m sure the Phils management is amused by it.
My dog barks at the mail truck every day. We think it’s adorable.
— zubzub - The awful way the Phillies are playing is harder to watch because everyone is used to a very good baseball team. It was easier when they stunk every year.— fish1463
- zubzub -- like the Soviet Union, the Amaro-era will come to pass as well and be acknowledged as the fraud that it was...I am only attempting to educate the public and expedite the process :) ...the way Rube's each and every decision is falling like a house of cards and he is basically batting .000 on everything he's done recently, the process may be quicker and more inevitable than you think— warbiscuit
- Carry on, Biscuit. We all have a destiny to fulfill :)
I just hope the hitting, pitching and fielding improve. And if it does, I promise I won't credit Ruben for it. Actually I might, but only as a joke.
ps ... I like the USSR reference.— zubzub - educate the public?????? LOL!— Grazman
- Ruben is a smug, arrogant failure— shawnmac
- He's not even that good. — fmMD
- Amaro looks more and more hapless every day.
He could be in the bottom 1/3 of all GM's.— fmMD - I think he is one of the worst of all-time. I liked his trade to acquire Lee for a year and a half at low cost- which he then undid by trading him when they had him locked up for a year at $9.5 million. I thought the Oswalt deal was good too. Every other single thing he has done, I think made the team worse in both the short and long runs. — jtj06
- BULL...— jmb53
- Phils suck.....EAGLES!!!!!!!— brizz33
- oh, i love it, i love it. love all you guys. with the team as crummy as it is, you guys are the best entertainment going. don't stop. don't ever stop.— bubba church & granny hamner
- Let's face it. Even Amaro and Cholly have said they don't know what they'll have when Utley and Howard return.
Cholly calls this team a very good team with talented players. Hmmmm.
There hasn't been much talent to keep the Fightin's near or slightly above .500 in preparation for the return not just of Utley and Howard, but Halladay as well.
It doesn't take a Theo Epstein to see how much Utley and Howard mean to the lineup (eg: Pence, Polanco, Victorino, and Ruiz) IF they can play at their pre-injury levels.
But facts are facts. How much longer can Utley go on bad knees? Will Howard be able to jump-start a dead lineup?
It may be time to send Utley to the American League where he can do what the Phils hoped Thome would do: Play a couple times a week, but in the AL, be a productive DH.
The Phils have two blue chip starters in Halladay and Lee and maybe a third in Hamels IF he stays with the club. And, of course another IF, IF Lee can figure out what's gone south for him.
Perhaps Amaro can hold on to some sort of nucleus and begin the rebuilding of a team that has grown old all too fast.
I don't see the Phils doing what the Cards did last year in the second half of the season.— PhillyFanFran - Take a look at that face. Would you do a deal with a guy who looks like that ??— NewMick314
- It's laughable. The number of posters thinking trading an Utley, a Howard, or Jimmy Rollins (who was passed over by everyone but the Phillies) Pense, Victorino or any regular roster player will immediately cure all their ills. Wake up !
This should have been done a year ago. No attempt was made to replace all the RBI's lost through non tendering contracts, and obvious long term injuries.
The love affair with Mayberry and Brown, each vying for left field , neither having the credentials to replace a 40 year old player, should have tipped you off to the direction this team was going. We are looking at years of turmoil before this ship sets it's sails in the right direction. The USS Amaro has too many holes below the waterline to have one patch stop it from sinking.
— phineas - You can't make this stuff up. A GM who couldn't find a talented player with a searhlight, a manager who can't manage, announcers who can't announce and writers who are homers and protect all of the above. This team won in spite of the clowns. Real simple solution replace Manuel today with Sandberg, get rid of Amaro and beg Pat Gillick to come back from one year, replace the TV guys with the radio guys and make the writers get their heads out of their tail sections and deal with reality.— gates2012
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
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