Amaro on Lidge's role: "Those are mainly decisions for Charlie to make."
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Amaro on Lidge's role: "Those are mainly decisions for Charlie to make."
Andy Martino
We all know that Charlie Manuel has been publicly supportive of Brad Lidge. But what does Ruben Amaro Jr. think, on a day when all of Philly seems to be buzzing with Lidge-related anxiety? After all, he’s the general manager, "the decider," to quote a former president.
Reached by phone a few hours ago, Amaro did not say, suggest, hint or imply that he was thinking about making a change at the position. But he did place the onus for any decision largely on Manuel.
“Those are mainly decisions for Charlie to make,” Amaro said. “But I believe in Charlie and I believe in Lidge. There is no question he has had some rough games. He has had some struggles, but when Lidge is pitching right, I’ll put my money on Lidge.”
Of course, Lidge isn’t pitching right this season, and I don’t have to retype the stats to prove it. My personal opinion hasn’t evolved on this since I blogged last night. It’s a problem for the team. Some of the more sabermetrically-inclined members of the Philles Zone community have rightly pointed out that a closer’s importance is overstated, and the Phils should just put different people in that role or mix-and-match. I almost always agree with sabermetric arguments, but actually covering baseball has changed my view on this one.
Yes, the save stat is one of the dumbest metrics in baseball, and middle-relief swingmen are more valuable than closers—at least modern, one-inning closers in the post-Eckersley/Sutter/Lee Smith era. But actually getting to know relief pitchers has taught me that they like to be in prescribed roles, and they really do believe that the ninth inning is different from any other.
So while the Jamesian crowd smartly notes that stuff that works in the seventh innings should translate to the ninth, it just doesn’t seem to work that way for the humans who play the game. That’s why demoting Lidge would potentially create new and serious problems for the bullpen, reshuffling the whole mix with weeks to go before the playoffs.
Also, Manuel was also asked today whether he would use Lidge again four days in a row. “If he’s sore or if he’s stiff or whatever and he feels like it’s going to be tough for him, if he tells me I won’t use him,” Manuel said. “I mean that. But at the same time, I felt like he was ready.”
***
Tomorrow, Antonio Bastardo (shoulder strain) will pitch a Gulf Coast League rehab game, Clay Condrey (oblique) will throw in a simulated game, and J.C. Romero (forearm strain) will throw a bullpen session, according to Amaro. The GM said that he still hopes to have all three back this season.
Comments (62)
I'm sure the bullpen pitchers *think* the 9th inning is different, or *like* having defined roles. But that doesn't mean they are right. This is why you have management; to make informed decisions. We don't let the players democratically vote on trades, or who should start. Why should we care what they think about the 9th inning. Go pitch. I'd like to close with a quote from one of my favorite player/gm/baseball theorists/poets: "That was a lot of fun," Jeff Francoeur said. "You just keep pounding balls into the gap. The one thing you don't want to do is hit a home run. That's a rally-killer."— Either/Or- I wish Lidge was having a similar season to 2008 but he isn't. The best place to regain confidence is in AAA Lehigh Valley not blowing the lead in 9 different games for a championship caliber team. What if the division race was much closer? More important, with the playoffs looming, isn't it time right now to fix the closer problem?— realex
Comment removed.- 박찬호가 ìµœê³ ë‹¤— ygosu
- Comment removed.
- My guess is that Lidge will get one or two more tries this weekend. If he fails he will go on the DL. It may be that his knee is still bothering him or he has some sort of arm trouble. But whatever the case, he would go on the DL.— JayW
- Amaro’s tenure as a GM has been almost great so far with all the moves and signings he did during the winter and getting Lee, plus Francisco, instead of Halladay, while keeping our best prospects. But the move he could regret was not going hard after Orioles closer George Sherrill, who instead went to the Dodgers. He would have been a nice insurance as the tough lefty off the bullpen - replacing Romero -or as a closer- replacing Lidge. (Both players were struggling with injuries and other issues, when Sherrill became available). Romero is still rehabbing and hoping to be back by September and Lidge is hoping to regain his form, which is tough to do when you are struggling big time during a pennant race. He’s probably done as an effective closer for the time being. It took him a long time to be a dominant closer since the Pujol’s homer in the playoffs in 2004.— EL Zorro
- I've been warning about Lidge since May. Anyone with eyes could tell he for what ever reason doesn't have it this year. Maybe if Dubee would put away the counter and clipboard and actually pay attention to his staff we might help someone. Ah Yes the numbers do help CYA.— Wally 24
- There is definitively a lack of communication or something between Lidge and Dubee. There are not on the same page. This is from another article in this site: "I don't know - I'm not inside his body," pitching coach Rich Dubee said. "Doctorwise, we've had him checked out. I don't know that there's not more than we think there is or whatnot. But he keeps telling me he needs more work. The more he throws, the sharper he feels."--- After allowing three runs on Tuesday, including a game-winning two-run homer to Andrew McCutchen, Lidge said he did not feel like he had quality stuff because he was pitching for a fourth straight day. So what is it? The pitching coach says Lidge tells him he needs more work and Lidge says he didn’t have quality stuff because he was pitching 4 days in a row. BTW Dubee, compare his numbers after pitching on consecutive days. That will tell you more than words coming out of the pitcher’s mouth.— EL Zorro
- There is no way the Phillies win the World Series with Brad Lidge as closer. Playoff teams are tougher this year - Cardinals and Rockies are looking real good. And the Yankees remind me of 1927, if the Phillies even get to the Series. So it's a tougher road this year, and the Lidge of '09 is nothing like the Lidge of '08.— steveku2
- HEY RICH_GELMAN: ARE YOU SERIOUS? AND DON'T USE ALL CAPS!!— spinmeister
- Go look at Trevor Hoffman's playoff stats. LOL
- Social Note: Dont invite Rubie and BillyChair to your next allyoucaneat event. The mashed potatoes will be flying.— mick314
- Comment removed.
- Charlie is as loyal as can be, until he decides it's time to make a change; then he's as ruthless as a corporate raider. He pledged his fealty to Park, but when the time came he bounced him from the starting rotation. Moyer was his man, until he wasn't. Last year Myers was staying at the top of the rotation, until he was sent to the minors. And Werth was Charlie's CF, with Vic and Geoff Jenkins platooning in RF, until Werth went to RF, Jenkins went to the bench, and Vic played every day in CF, earning himself a gold glove and helping the team immeasurably in its drive to the big prize. So, Charlie will make a decision, probably not as soon as many of us want. Why does anyone think he used Lidge four straight days? He's trying to gauge his stuff and his resiliency. And if Lidge can't deliver a save of a one-run game against the Pirates, how can he be expected to do so against the Braves, Marlins, Cardinals, Rockies, Dodgers, Yankees, or whomever else might face the Phillies in the post-season? He's already blown two saves each against the Dodgers and Yankees this season. So, Charlie will make a decision. But, the last thing I want to see is Lidge facing Puholz in a save situation in the post-season.— PHANPHOREVER
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