Amaro Jr.: Ibanez almost as productive as Werth
News blogs, sports blogs, entertainment blogs, and more from Philly.com, The Philadelphia Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily News.
Amaro Jr.: Ibanez almost as productive as Werth
Bob Brookover, Inquirer Baseball Columnist
ORLANDO, Fla. -- When asked to assess Raul Ibanez' 2010 season Thursday before leaving the GM meetings, Ruben Amaro Jr. made an interesting unsolicited comparison by bringing free-agent right fielder Jayson Werth into the discussion.
"(Ibanez) was still a pretty productive player and ... his numbers are not all that different from Jayson's last year," the Phillies general manager said. "What did (Ibanez) have, 83 RBIs? Jayson had 85. (Ibanez) didn't have as many opportunities as Jayson did to drive in runs.
"Clearly, Jayson had more runs scored and his on-base percentage and stuff were better, but (Ibanez) had 37 doubles and five triples or something like that. The difference in their production was not all that great."
What's so fascinating about Amaro's comparison is that it could serve two purposes.
In addition to talking up Ibanez in a thinly veiled effort to increase the left fielder's trade value, he also devalued Werth's contributions to the team last season.
For the record, Ibanez batted .275 with 16 home runs and 83 RBIs. He had 37 doubles and five triples. Werth hit .296 with 27 home runs and 85 RBIs. He had 46 doubles and two triples Werth, of course, is seven years younger and a superior outfielder to Ibanez.
You can read more about the final day of the GM meetings in tomorrow's Inquirer.
From now on every time I get mad at Rube for trading Cliff Lee for 3 bags of dirt I will just say to myself,"It could be worse. Thank God Ed Gein is not the Phillies GM."— F. Harry Stowe- What's going to happen is that the Phils will sign Jeff Franceour, and someone will overpay for Werth. Franceour will come in here, ala Werth and Victorino, and turn around his career. He's got the physical skills and just needs Charlie to tinker with his hitting. Franceour did start to turn it around when he got to Texas, so there is hope. If that happens, RAJ will take his remaining budget and rebuild the bullpen.— beegal99
- ABSOLUTELY NOT!! WE SHOULD TRADE IBANEZ MONEY AND USE IT TO KEEP WERTH!!— hrlevine
- Is it just me, or does it seem like Rube has a vendetta against Werth? Sure seems that way ever since we were knocked off by the G's...— BHam
- Werth is a nice player to have on your team, but he isn't worth overpaying for, which is what the market will demand.— Phils_World_Champs
- F Harry Stowe wins the line of the day award. Well played sir.— The Reddgie
- RAj just playing the game. It's fairly transparent but you have to do it anyway. Werth is gone, going to be another big contract that some team is going to regret in 2013. Not that he's not a good player, but that's going to be an awful lot of money to sink into a good but not cornerstone type player.
Miami and Atlanta just got better this week, I think that trade was good for both of them. Fish are loading up, if they get a closer, look out for those young studs. Braves will be a little more dangerous with Danuggla and Say Heyward being a year seasoned. We need bats and bullpen to stay ahead of them!
Also, I like the stats, all the sabr metric stuff, but when it comes down to it, they are mostly interdependent and full of variables, so take 'em with a grain of salt. You want players who are winners, who make plays when it most matters. That's scouting, film, and watching closely.— Eephus - I don't care what ED GEIN is smoking...as long as he's willing to share it...by the way, I always wanted to ask Ed, any relation to the REAL Ed Gein???— stan the man too
- Rollins is virtually untradeable. He's a 10/5 man with veto power whose offensive production has declined each of the past three years, and he's had several nagging injuries, to boot. So let's stop with that tired idea of packaging all the players we don't want--Rollins, Ibanez, and Blanton--for salary room and/or a solid player or two. Besides, I think we can squeeze more production out of all of those guys. Phils finished with the best record for the only time in franchise history with all three of those guys underperforming. I think we can relax a little. That said, it's a shame Jimmy won't retire a Phillie, 'cause this is his last year here. Book it.— andrewfrombrooklyn
Amaro is telling the world he is going to offer Werth about the same salary as Ibanez now gets ($11.5M) in arbitration. His message is that he doesn't think Werth will win a higher salary. Ruben is no dummy. The arbitration offer is win/win. If they agree to accept, they get Werth back on a reasonable one year contract. If he declines you get a #1 pick and a sandwich pick, pretty good for a guy you picked up off the trash heap. Amaro sets the market price for Werth at a level that runs most teams off. Ruben is a sharp cookie. All of you wanna be GM's should just watch and learn.- Bottom line; Amaro wants to justify that overpaid contract he gave Ibanez. I like Ibanez; but Werth is the better player. Thanks Jayson!— thejerz
- If it was up to the moneyball stat guys, you could get to be World series Champion while losing in the irst round of the playoffs as long as someone could make a statistical argument that you SHOULD have won.
All of those stats are expressed in the larger categories like RBI's, ave, etc. If you actually watch the games then you know that a guy might have slightly better stats because of the ballpark or his opportunities. Over a career, the RBI's type stats tell the truth because in the end theoretical production does not cut it. Also, as several others have pointed out, swinging the bat instead of walking is what great RBI players do and they also swing to hit the ball hard. If you do not then you will have less RBI's and an agent pointing to your OBP. And in the end, if you only drove in and scored a combined 215 times to another guys 250 then you didn't have as good of a season and it doesn't matter why...A 13-12 pitcher wins Cy Young in a year when 2 other guys had great years(Price and Sabathia)...RBI's don't matter? Runs Scored don't matter? Winning doesn't matter... Why Play the games?— ccheung 
Ibanez is SO Sloooooooowwwww zzzzzzzzzzzzzz— Sam Crow- But I do agree that maybe Boras and a bunch of the media are a little high in their salary estimate for Werth. Players with his statistics sign for 12- 13 a year not 15-16. Guys his age struggle to get that 5th year(see Dan Uggla who wants 5 yrs.for 71 million but is now on a team that is content to let him play out his contract rather than sign him for that EVEN after they traded several players away to get him). So what's the market for Werth? I say he ends up somehwere for 4 yrs-54 million.— ccheung
- Trade Utley for Kemp. Move Victorino to RF. Move Polanco to 2B. Sign Beltre.— left coast flyer fan
