Amaro Jr.: Ibanez almost as productive as Werth
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Amaro Jr.: Ibanez almost as productive as Werth
Bob Brookover, Inquirer Baseball Columnist
ORLANDO, Fla. -- When asked to assess Raul Ibanez' 2010 season Thursday before leaving the GM meetings, Ruben Amaro Jr. made an interesting unsolicited comparison by bringing free-agent right fielder Jayson Werth into the discussion.
"(Ibanez) was still a pretty productive player and ... his numbers are not all that different from Jayson's last year," the Phillies general manager said. "What did (Ibanez) have, 83 RBIs? Jayson had 85. (Ibanez) didn't have as many opportunities as Jayson did to drive in runs.
"Clearly, Jayson had more runs scored and his on-base percentage and stuff were better, but (Ibanez) had 37 doubles and five triples or something like that. The difference in their production was not all that great."
What's so fascinating about Amaro's comparison is that it could serve two purposes.
In addition to talking up Ibanez in a thinly veiled effort to increase the left fielder's trade value, he also devalued Werth's contributions to the team last season.
For the record, Ibanez batted .275 with 16 home runs and 83 RBIs. He had 37 doubles and five triples. Werth hit .296 with 27 home runs and 85 RBIs. He had 46 doubles and two triples Werth, of course, is seven years younger and a superior outfielder to Ibanez.
You can read more about the final day of the GM meetings in tomorrow's Inquirer.
This has nothing to do with how Werth and Ibanez compare in reality; this is about RAJ navigating the trade and free-agent markets. But I am sure we will see comments about how the two players are completely different. Which is not the point.— smel4727- Sounds like he's trying to build-up Ibanez... other than that, there really is no comparison between the 2. Werth is a far superior player to Raul.— TerryW
- Or, he's trying to justify the 3-year deal he gave Ibanez.— FireTMac&Wheeler!
- the similarity in their numbers will surprise many readers, as it did me. The real story here is what all of us already know to be true - Werth had a historically bad season with RISP, especially with two outs. To read and hear of all the nonsense depicting this past season as his best ever is just that, nonsense.
Still, if there is a way to keep Werth with maybe putting together a deal that sends Victorino out of town with either Blanton or Rollins and using that money to keep Werth for a few years, I'd be all for it. Victorino and Rollins are what they are, horrible left-handed hitters whom need to hit .300 right handed just to keep their averages at .250, with poor OBP and occasionally stupid base-running. Even with Werth's problems in the clutch, he offers more of what we need on the Phils than either of those other guys.— advantasux 
Comment removed.- This is actually a dumb comparison, but if he's workin' this angle for whatever reason, Rube needs to mention that Ibanez did a nice job in the three hole when the injuries hit. And Werth didn't. Hit third, that is. Because he wasn't hitting.— wooderice
- Rube is crafty.— WerthsOtherWife
Werth hit .197 with runners in scoring position. Main reason he will not be back.— Servo- Amaro is correct, Ibanez has been just as productive as Werth. Look at the stats below. I also included Carlos Quentin which is a name people are throwing around as a replacement we could get in a trade. Hes 28, and is just as productive as Werth and Ibanez but would only cost about 5Mil.
Raul Ibanez
2010 – 16 HR 83 RBI, .280 average
Average over last 3 years
24 HR
95 HR
.280 ba
Jayson Werth
2010 – 27 HR 85 RBI .296 ba
Average over last 3 years
29 HR’s
83 RBi’s
.277 Ba
Carlos Quentin
2010 – 26 HR 87 RBI .243 ba
Average over last 3 years
28 HR
81RBI
.255 BA
— kmbgonzo - Who cares about Werth, the question is what would it take to get Justin Upton, Im thinking Hamels, Brown, Cosart plus a B prospect gets it done.— Ed Gein
- If he can trade Ibanez and eat only half his salary, that would be nice in terms of payroll flexibility for this season. He might be able to justify bigger money to Werth, and more player friendly options to push the length of the deal. Lidge, Rollins, Polanco, Victorino is big money that could come off the books shortly, and Oswalt's 2012 isn't guaranteed, so there's room to maneuver medium term, even with the Utley, Halladay, Hamels and Howard contracts.— B in DC
- Ed Gein, you can get any young player in the league you want for Hamels and Brown alone. Your an idiot if you ever would make that trade for Upton.— SPro
- @Ed Gein>>>"Who cares about Werth, the question is what would it take to get Justin Upton, Im thinking Hamels, Brown, Cosart plus a B prospect gets it done."
Why not throw in Halladay, pay his salary and ask the Diamondbacks if they want to take Ryan Howard for August and September if they're in the race? That is way too much to give up for Justin Upton. I wouldn't give up either Hamels or Brown straight up for Upton. He's young, has a lot of talent and could be a superstar but it's not a sure thing. Hamels is the real deal and if you want to win championships you NEVER trade great pitching for potential. You trade potential (i.e., Drabek) for great pitching.— Eilex826 - @advantasux: Interesting point about Rollins' and Victorino's splits. Keep in mind that this year was abnormal. Check their career stats and you'll see that some years they bat better from the left side, and most years don't see a large difference in BA from either side.— hoyaray
- Of course RAJ is just posturing. If he could have someone take on Ibanez 11.5M next season, he'd do it in a second.
Advanta-Your depiction of Rollins as a left-handed hitter is just not reality. Per 650 plate appearances, Rollins has 159H, 34 2B, 10 3B, 13 HR and 61 RBI as a lefty and 166, 34, 6, 16 and 63 as a RH batter. Those are career averages. There is not much difference in Rollins from either side.
I won't bore you with Victorino splits only to say he is certainly better as a RH hitter but career .295 RH and .275 LH that is even with the much bigger differential in 2010.
By the way, Mickey Mantle hit 48 points higer as a right handed hitter as well.
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