Addition of Pence is move for present and future
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Addition of Pence is move for present and future
Bob Brookover, Inquirer Baseball Columnist
Turns out the Phillies made the best trade for the present and the future.
Yes, they had to surrender the two best prospects in their minor-league system by giving up righthander Jared Cosart and first baseman Jonathan Singleton in order to pry right fielder Hunter Pence away from the Houston Astros.
Double-A Reading's Josh Zeid has the arm to be a big-league pitcher, too, and we'll have to wait to see who will be the fourth player Houston receives from the Phillies.
But while Pence was hugging his Houston teammates after coming out of his team's game in Milwaukee, Domonic Brown remained in right field for the Phillies.
The fact that Pence will be in the Phillies lineup Saturday night and for the remainder of the season makes this team infinitely better. Suddenly the Phillies have a 28-year-old two-time All-Star with a career .290 batting average who is going to end up with close to 40 doubles and 20 home runs this season.
"I think the front office knows that we're in a special time here in Philadelphia and we have a good team and if they feel like there is room for improvement, they're going to make that move," second baseman Chase Utley said.
In essence, the Phillies have found the right-handed bat they needed to replace Jayson Werth by getting a guy who has been leaps and bounds better than Werth this season. You can argue that he doesn't walk a lot and he strikes out too much, but that's the nittiest of nitpicking.
Pence has produced with a horrid Houston team and should be even better with a club that has designs of winning the World Series.
"He's a right-handed bat, a power bat, that we can insert in the middle of the lineup and I think he can do some damage," Utley said. "It will be fun to get a chance to know him and get to play with him."
The two most interesting things to watch in the coming days is how much this move impacts the Phillies' offense and what transactions follow.
You got the impression before Friday night's rout of the Pittsburgh Pirates that manager Charlie Manuel, the same man who openly campaigned for Domonic Brown to be promoted from triple-A Lehigh Valley nine weeks ago, believes that his rookie right fielder now needs more seasoning with the IronPigs.
Neither Manuel nor general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. would say what roster move they will make before Saturday's game, but Brown realizes he could be the player to go.
"I know it's a good possibility that it could happen," Brown said. "I'm not going to be bothered by it. You live and you learn and you grow. I have to play and get better."
If Pence's arrival allows Brown to hone his skills some more in Lehigh Valley, that's not the worst thing in the world either. At 23, Brown is still a kid with immense tools who should get better the more he plays the game. With Pence likely around for at least the remainder of this year and two years beyond that, Brown probably will find himself in left field if he does return to the IronPigs Saturday.
That's an adjustment he should be able to make and it's conceivable that the opening-day outfield in 2012 will be Brown in left, Pence in right and Shane Victorino in center.
"This is not a knock on Domonic Brown by any stretch of the imagination," Amaro said. "We believe and hope he is going to be a Phillie for a long time. This is one of those moves we made not just for present, but also for the future and Dom is certainly part of that."
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Comments (99)
BEMiller: Good post!!! My dad took me to my first Phillies game in 1939! I can't believe where all the years have gone! Lot of lean years, but recent years have more than made uo for it!!!— billroc35- Pride of the UT-Arlington Mavericks. Bad news he is no doubt a cowboys fan. Can't have everything....— bobcitydoc
- Ed Wade should again be the Phillies executive of the year !!! haha— mmmike22
- I wasn't for it, but now that it's happened, I have confidence in RAJ, and I'm hopeful. I'm also glad that Worley is still with us and Brown seems to have a real good attitude- he knows he has to get better - he will get better.
This might turn out to be the move that leads to Broad Street parade, and a pretty strong outfield in 2012 and 2013. To repeat BE Miller's greeting: Welcome to Philadelphia, Mr. Pence!— altoonaaslan 
Rube's gonna run this team into the ground in two years. As a lot of people said two years ago.— COskier- To j.j., South West Florida: It was the Kansas City A's (under Arnold Johnson), not the Philadelphia A's, who were a Yankees farm team, in the late '50s.— davehist
- What happens to Francisco?— thomdee
- Gillick's protoge has learned his lessons well. Thank you Ruben Amaro Jr. I echo an earlier comment RAJ for president!— onefossilrabbit
- From Houston here...you guys are going to LOVE Pence. This guy takes no shortcuts, busts his tail every night. You will see that he's a throwback player from the 20s and 30s by his style of play, gestures etc- he will be a hometown favorite for sure. On a different note, you guys should be careful not to trade your farm system away. When the Astros were winning all those division championships in the late 90s-mid 2000s, we depleted our farm system to get rentals, 1-2 year guys etc, and look where we're at now. One guy thanked us for being your farm system but be careful bc once these acquired guys get better, you could be ours in 5 years or so. Anyway good luck guys and enjoy Michael Anthony Hall from the Breakfast Club lol look at Pence and you'll know what I'm talking about haha— HoustonMade
- Here's one poster who's perfectly fine with Brown getting sent to LV today. But I don't know that it's a certainty or even that RAJ is done. Still got better than 24 hrs of trade deadline left...— PhillySubsMac
- Now we can put the Jason Werth controversy away forever. Amaro just saved the club at least $100 mil and gave up only questionable prospects. As long as Howard is here, Singleton would never have played. The other two? I'll take my chances on that and be satisfied that Ruben has put us in a position to win it all this year and, with a little tweak here and there in the offseason, for 2012 and 2013.— 1republican
Comment removed.- Can't wait to see the line up when Polanco comes back, and hopefully he can get back to his early season form.— Danno
- It's getting a little bothersome to have the Phils put down the Giants at every turn. First, Charlie says their pitching is only good and now Ruben is condemning the renting of a player. Just prove your better than them and stop talking about it. This should prove to be the right move, but stop throwing the Giants under the bus like they don't know how to win.— kmon
- Giants are not a far better team than the Phils. Lousier record in a lousier division. Our top three pitchers are as good or better than theirs and bullpens are about the same. Yes, Utley and Howard have to be patient and stay off Linsecum's change, but Pence will add a dimension the Giants don't have. All they got is Beltran, if he can stay healthy.— mike l
- First of all--Ruben continues to do an amazing job as GM. They had the best record in MLB last year and again this year and now add another part to the machine. If he would have given in to those of you calling for Werth (0.215 avg), did his waiting till now to fill RF with a right handed bat hurt their chances for success this season?
Finally, to all of those of you who want to bash Ed Wade look at his full history. As Phillies GM he drafted Rollins, Utley, Howard, Hamels, Burrell, Madson, signed Ruiz as an undrafted free agent, picked up Victorino as a rule 5. He didn't trade for Schilling when he was with Arizona (they wanted Utley and Madson). He also acquired Billy Wagner for Brandon Duckworth and Buchholz from Houston. Did he make some mistakes as GM for the Phillies? Absolutely. David Bell was a disappointment. He signed Jim Thome which was the start of the Phillies rise in recent years.
Every GM seems to go after guys that they knew from their prior club. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Dallas Green became the GM of the Cubs. He traded Ivan Dejesus for Larry Bowa and a rookie named Ryne Sandberg (AKA HOF). Guess he was a Phillies stooge. Saint Gillick picked up Jamie Moyer who he had in Seattle where he was no longer effective but gave the Phillies 4+ very good years. He picked up Greg Dobbs who he also had in Seattle and Jayson Werth who he drafted when he was with Baltimore. Dobbs was a terrific pinch hitter and Werth recovered to have some great years with the Phillies. Gillick also signed the following busts: Adam Eaton (3 years, $24M), Geoff Jenkins (2 years $9M), traded Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez for Freddy Garcia. He also picked up Lidge from Houston for Michael Bourn who leads he NL in steals and is hitting over .300. Yea, Wade got fleeced by trading a guy in Lidge who was as popular in Houston as Mitch Williams was in Philly after he gave up Joe Carter's WS walk off.— Philliesguy - Who penciled in Brown in left-field for next year? Manuel? Or some sportswriter? Don't hold your breath waiting for Brown to deliver on the big league level.— Boru
- Comment removed.
- Some people are saying that the Phillies got a replacement, that is close, but not as good as Jason Werth.
I respectfully disagree.
Jason Werth was overly selective as a hitter. He has a good idea of the strike zone and got a lot of walks. He also had a ton of called strike three looking. He is still doing it with the Nationals.
While it is a good thing that a hitter is disciplined and there are times a walk is a good thing,Werth's and now Pence's role, is essentially to drive in runs from the position they are in the lineup.
Pence is not a wild swinger out of the strike zone. He is agressive around the strike zone with good plate coverage.
I think that is what the Phillies like about him. I liked Jason Werth but I think Hunter Pence is an even better fit for this team.— candidly - One thing about Reuben..........we all know he is from Oxford circle and Dad was a mainstay around here. He is one of us and knows this town and it's culture. He also has an owner in the background from here and with exceptionally deep pockets. Neither are transplants from Boston or New York.— Northcountry
- At 28 Pence has plenty of good season's ahead of him and the OF should be set for some time. Keeping Worley was key and now RAJ can turn his attention to the left side of the IF over the off-season. When you become what the Phils have become - it's a whole lot easier to continually upgrade; also nice that your main competitor's are in the junior circuit in the same division.......— Northcountry
- Hunter Pence is a Chase Utley type player...he plays real hard every minute, plus he hit 25 home runs for the last 3 seasons, and is hitting .307 now.
Plus he will hit 30 home runs and 100 rbi's in this lineup and small ballpark for many years to come.
Great job Amaro for getting Pence!
— frank105 - Genuis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!— shawnmac
- Wade is a double agent....how long before a federal grand jury investigates him?— philly thug
- A few people said it: One thing I really like about this move is that it settles the outfield for next year. RAJ has a way of making moves that transition the team along. I give him a lot of credit for that.— s
- asomugha jagr, pence....2 out of 3 aint bad— philly thug
- Does Ed Wade get a W.S. Ring too?— pinballwizard515
- Astros fan here. Philly, you received one of the most outstanding young marketing pawns available. Hunter is a class act. He represented the Stros well for 4 years, and will do the same with your club. I congratulate your club for snagging him; enjoy!— champagneben
- An unbelievably great day to be a Philly sports fan. The Phils get an All Star stud who will help us immensely in Hunter Pence.
The Eagles pull off a stunner with Nnamdi Asomugha. Wow.
What a heist pulled off by both the Eagles and Phils.
Pence has carried a very bad Astro's team. He may be even better
here as he has some many good players around him.
Great job as usual Reuben. You are amazing.— Fan74 - He didn't "carry" the Astros. If he carried them they wouldn't be so terrible. That's like saying Kyle Orton carried the Broncos to the 2nd worst record in the NFL. Pence is a good player. Not great, just good. — thnar
- We'll see, better than a rental but is this guy better than what we have? And these guys aen't going to be here in '14 thru '34— robinlupe
- Does anyone really see Brown's "immense tools" other than during batting practice?
Moving to left is an adjustment he can make? Well, if it means playing there as poorly as right, I guess so.
I sure hope next year's outfield has Mayberry in it.— VicM - J— Fan74
- BRAVO ZULU!!!— maroonedinVA
- The most amazing part of the deal for Pence, they didnt have to give up Worley or Dom Brown...Brown can continue to develope...and hopefully Worley continues to dominate...great day for the Phillies— danielboyer
- Leave it to Rueben to show everybody who OWNS this town. Eagles are pretenders and can't get it done.— soprano50
- "More than likely, the Giants and Braves will meet in the first round of the playoffs and the Giants might get knocked out."
Not if Conrad is playing 2d or 3d.— FiloSofer - Seriously, once the Astros fire Wade, does RAJ offer him some assistant job in player development or scouting? He did give us Lidge, who promptly went 48 for 48 and helped win the series. Then there was the Oswalt deal, along with the 'stros paying the rest of his 2010 salary. Now Pence, for some prospects that won't be major league ready for at least 3 years, if ever.— paulNC
- Every Philly team is better than last season right now, how cool is that?
I thought the Phillies might do something stupid,like getting B.J. Upton
from the Ray's. Upton will benefit from a change of scenery, but is still after all these years a raw work in progress. Hunter Thompson would chuckle how cheap the Phils got the right Hunter after all.— gonzoinFla - No problem sending Brown down for the next month or so. Bring him up in September and add him to the postseason roster. A better DH candidate than anyone else on that bench.— philliesphan79
- Great day for Philly. Nobody can call us bumbling idiots anymore. God bless America! God bless Philadelphia! One in the same.— BIGEGLFAN
- When Polanco is back next week this lineup will be pretty good. It'll be interesting to see if everyone's bats come alive with Pence in there..— bossrjc
- Xmas present in July! On top of one last Xmas!
This reminds me of Lakers getting Gasol from Memphis when West was Prez of Grizzlies. Even tho its 100% business, relationships a key factor.
Bravo-X3 Ruben.
— FiloSofer - Great day for Philly. Nobody can call us bumbling idiots anymore. God bless America! God bless Philadelphia! One in the same.— BIGEGLFAN
- Don't belittle Wade, the Astros are rebuilding and he just gave up one player(and his salary)for 3 quality prospects. The Astros are in a very different situation than the Phillies. He might still have the last laugh.— Beck
- Why is everyone calling Pence great? The guy's high for single season WAR is only 4.1. He doesn't walk and his power has been going down each of the past few seasons. He's good but not exceptional. Werth had at least 5 WAR each season from 2008 to 2010. At least we didn't give up Brown.— thnar
- Great trade, but if you can get something else big for Brown, now is the time. The guy does not seem to have the grit to survive a trip back to the minors with any confidence intact. He was getting blown away by a low 90's fastball tonight! Got picked off (called safe) cadillacing it back to first standing up on a pick off play. The guy has been reading his press clippings for three long years, and seems to be incapable of digesting the intensity and toil of major league baseball. If you can get a lights-out bullpen arm and a prospect for him, you'll be a lot closer to your goal of a series win. Great job getting Pence for a couple of Lakewood legends!— auntesther
Agree with Don w...Brown will be a fine major league player. He has a lot of Lonnie Smith in him, granted, but Smith has at least 3 World Series rings and a lot of postseason cash. Dom is looking better at the plate and will now have some time to improve defensively between now and opening day 2012.- I agree with atp2007. We still have to root for someone else to take out the Giants. This is a great move for chalking up regular season wins and finishing 8 games in front instead of 5, but it doesn't do anything to get the Phillies through San Francisco. It just adds another guy SF pitching owns to the line up.— jtj06
- So true. & This is not abt roster moves, but finding a way to make solid contact vs. Cain & Lincecum. They're good. but not so dominating as they look against us. What is it abt the match-ups? Or is it our hitting Gurus? — FiloSofer
- "makes this team infinitely better" INFINITELY?— mrnmkr
- "makes this team infinitely better" INFINITELY?— mrnmkr
- Great move by Amaro....good move for now, good move for the next 2 seasons. There wasn't going to be much on the OF free-agent market at the end of this season either. He played great poker with Wade. Wade tried to hold on as long as possible, drive up the bidding in a competition, act like he wasn't going to trade Pence, etc. Amaro held tough and called his bluff. Kept Brown, Worley and didn't throw in a 3rd or 4th top prospect like Biddle or May. I don't believe that Brown was ever offered. Are you telling me that they couldn't get more from a 3rd team for Brown than Reid and the other player to be named later from low A, second tier prospect? Get real. That rumor was supposedly from another team that had talked with the Astros. That never came out of Philly or Houston. Either it was just nonsense or the Astros were putting that out there to make it seem like Philly was upping its offer to drive up the bidding. Even Wade wouldn't have been dumb enough to take Reid and another second-tier prospect instead of Brown (who's only 23 years old), lol.— JimG
- Nothing Pensive about this deal.Cosart and Singleton are good young talents but this about now.AND Ed Wade--thanks---once a Phillie always a Phillie.— HO HUM
- love it— main liner
- 3 words. I love philly! Eagles phillies and AARGUABLY the flyers, all making moves to win a championship i love it!— lighterfluid
- The fact that Amaro would not include Brown in a trade even one that could put them over the top tells you what he thinks of DB.— Don w
- My one worry: after Wade gets fired at the end of this season and the Phillies hire him for some position in the front office, will the commissioner investigate possible collusion between Wade and the Phillies. The man continues to demonstrate why he was dreadful as a General Manager.— chuckw
- His Rico Brogna to the Red Sox will always be proof to me of how bad he is (yes I know there were others). He's a terrible poker player who thinks he's holding his cards close then seems to panic in the end and scrambles just to make a move. Sure there will be guys here who claim Bourn was a mistake but there would be no '08 title without Lidge. As for the Brogna incident for those who don't know. Brogna wanted a trade to Boston. Boston wanted him. Wade never made the trade. Brogna was upset. Wade placed him on wavers and Boston picked him up. Instead of trading the player for at least something he just gave him away. — SFPhillyphan
- Some of the posters who are labeling Brown as a potential bust were raving about Jason Heyward of the Braves last season. Rumor has it that had the Braves acquired Pence, they were going to send Heyward down. Takes several seasons for young players to become quality Major Leaguers, so give Brown time to mature. Probably could use more seasoning at Lehigh.— chuckw
- Sure Pence is great, but i hope the phillies aren't screwing up their future by trading away a lot of future talent, for this season...— Howie FelterSnatch
- That's exactly what happened and it's the right move. They have a window of a couple of years to go for it all again and they should make any move necessary to do that. That's baseball. Would you rather have a team that makes a move for a championship every year or a team that has "up and coming prospects" every year but never wins? — SFPhillyphan
- Lonewolf is Harry? That explains a lot...I thought maybe Harry got locked in the mens' room at Denny's and never got out.— Eephus
- Got to love the Wadester. Pence is scrappy and talented, he'll fit in well here. Big Piece has been showing occational signs of life lately, wonder if this will spark him up even more. Chase, I apologize for thinking he was washed up. RoyO coming back. Doc shows tonight that despite Cole's brilliance this year, and Cliff's hot streaks, and Vanimal's fresh excitment, it's still Doc's world and the rest of the pitching staff is there to keep us entertained until the Ultimate Arm takes the mound.— Eephus
- Send Brown in a package with Worley for Kemp. A lineup of Rollins, Polly, Utley, Kemp, Howard, Pence, Victorino and Ruiz, and a rotation of Doc, Cliff, Cole and Roy-O --- Oh my!
But seriously, its a very nice move by RAJ. The only problem is that Brown stock is falling. If he doesn't get himself right (particularly in the field), he's not gonna be worth much in a year. If this lets him learn, great, but this is 2 years in a row where he's failed to capitalize on opportunity. I'm not saying its his fault - I think he's been rushed twice now. But as the saying goes "perception is reality". I agree Brown should not have been moved for Pence, but I would put him in a deal for Kemp any day of the week. Finally, I think folks are missing the bigger picture too. I think Worley staying means Roy-O is a goner after this year. So many are down on the guy because of his injuries and personal issues this year, but the guy is a gamer and one of the best of the last decade. I don't think he's retiring, but I don't think he'll be playing here. Worley and Blanton will be the 4 and 5 next year to save money to pay for Pence and Hamels' raise.— guru26 - Just a thought. When Phils lost #10,000, national media made it a huge deal. Next Braves loss is #10,000. Wondering if it will even get a mention in the national sporting media?— mike 1717
- Ed Wade will go down as the Greatest Front Office Secret Operative of all time. HBO is gonna make a series about how Eddie Dubs faked his own firing, infiltrated the enemy and fed All-Stars back to home base. Well done, Eddie Dubleya. Well done— stikolaboloni
- Comment removed.
- Posters need to stop worrying about the Giants. Anything can happen over the course of a season, including injuries like McCann going down for the Braves or potentially one of the pitchers for the Giants. More than likely, the Giants and Braves will meet in the first round of the playoffs and the Giants might get knocked out. The Phillies need to keep winning, get their big three starters well rested, and let the chips fall where they may.— chuckw
- I LOVE our outfield next year! With Mayberry as the backup, you've got a guy who you can use once or twice a week at any of the positions. I sure hope for ben francisco he's been living in a rental.— yobill626
- can't say he didn't try, what a move. Who knows if either of those kids ever make the major leagues? Ain't so bad across the parking lot either, eh? What a night to be a philly fan.
— sore richard - I just found out that londwolf is really Harry Schmeckel— stoky
- Adams can be gotten without Dom in the deal. If not him, go get Qualls and part with even fewer prospects and stringers.— Koons
- Is there some way we coold attach Wheels to the package ?— NewMick314
- Wheels can only be part of a package that would also include McCarthy.. — Joe@Pottstown
- Great job and they still have Worley!!— philsfansince1946
- it looks like ed wade is good for something after all...letting us steal great players for nothing. i guess he feels bad for running this organization terribly. can't wait to see pence in red stripes— AlexSp
- WOW - What a day! Thanks Ruben; Thanks Ed; Go Phils!!~!— M60tanker
- Great Pick! Send Brown to the minors for more refinement and maybe trade bait for San Diego-Mike Adams. Rueben is aggressive. He doesn't care one bit about "the future" he has it on the field.— bdocman1
- I thought Wade was part of the deal...— Grazman
- ED WADE belongs in the Phillies Hall of Fame!!!— sla6yer
- Last week showed one thing, the Phillies need a bat that can hit the Giants. A quick look at Baseball Almanac shows that in 2010 Pence faced Giant pitching 36 times, got 7 hits. Of those 7 there was 1 double and 1 homer. Will that get the Phils passed the Giants come playoff time?— atp2007
- lol, yeah, because ryan howard's incredible OBP plus the fear of having to face shane "babe ruth" victorino with men on base can only result in lincecum and cain groving straight fastballs to pence. isn't it a little early for this much kool-aid?? — PhillyPhan4for4
- Gelb is right. Ruben sorted out the '12 outfield with this one move, and it's looking great for next season. But Matt, on Twitter you said this is a knock on Brown, and I have to agree with Amaro that it shouldn't be taken that way. Brown was never penciled in for RF this year and there would have been too much pressure on him come October. Yet he IS penciled into LF next year, so if this a knock on Brown it's not a big one.— sla6yer
- An Astros fan here. You guys will really enjoy having Pence on your team. Great player, great enthusiasm, great guy. For his sake I hope the phillies win it all this year. BTW, do you guys want Ed Wade back?— Garyfan
- I was afraid you'd say that — Garyfan
- Way to get it done Rube.... We have a lot of flexibility now--in the outfield, with bench pieces, and late inning matchups/Pinch hitters. Should be fun to watch and fun for Cholly to manage.— HAROLD Eskin
- Ed Wade must still think he works got the Phillies. He has turned the Astros into a Phillies farm team. Good thing he's there.— Ssteve115
- in ruben we trust— rysagr
BEMiller is going to be so upset.
Pence is going to be a lot of fun to watch 162 games/year for the next few years, and we won't have to wonder "what if" about Brown once he polishes those rough edges with the Pigs.
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- Frankly, NO! Didn't really want him, true. I do think he cost more than he should have, yes.
Now he's here, and I will only hope he makes RAJ look like a genius!
I went to my first Phillies game at Shibe Park in 1947, and have been a Phillies fan ever since. They haven't always done well, but I have NEVER been one of the boo boo birdies!
I can have a differing idea BEFORE, but once the thing happens, I am staying in it for the long haul.
Welcome to Philadelphia, Mr. Pence!— BEMiller - I'm happy because I thought we were going to have to give up more than what we did...Not having to give up Vance or Domonic was key....I thought they were holding out for one of them plus the prospects.. — PhilliefaninAZ
- Great move! Singleton will never play here and Cosart(like any prospect) is a maybe.— mick-of-the-moment
- and mayberry as the 4th guy who can play all the OF positions. Sweet.— palmyra21
- And first base as well! Actually JMJ continues to show all around improvement! — BEMiller
- Good job Matt. All I gotta say is, ... again,... WOW! Phils didn't get a 'rental' as Giants did. Phils didn't get a 'cast-off.' Thank you again Ed Wade!
- RAJ for President...4 for 1 prospect trade and so glad we kept DomBrown and Vanimal!
Now Pence has to change his jersey number to 441!— Souled0ut1
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The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
Inquirer Staff Writer
Bob Brookover
Inquirer Baseball Columnist
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