40-man roster politics
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40-man roster politics
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
The World Series begins tonight and we're talking about the 40-man roster in Philadelphia. Another slap of harsh reality in the face, but here's guessing Whitney nets better primetime ratings in this city than FOX does. (OK, let's not say things we can't take back.)
Regardless, the Phillies already started massaging their 40-man roster in preparation for the winter. Pete Orr and Brandon Moss were outrighted to triple-A Lehigh Valley to clear two spots. The roster stands at 38.
Five days after the final game of the World Series, that number will drop to 33 when the five free agents are removed. Then it'll go to 31 when Roy Oswalt and Brad Lidge's options are declined. Even then, names like John Bowker, Scott Mathieson and Erik Kratz remain.
The point is, the Phillies have some flexibility with the 40-man roster, and they may need it.
Part of the fall period is for evaluating players on the fringe. A little over a month remains until the Phillies must set their roster prior to the Rule 5 draft. The current CBA states that players signed at age 19 or older must be protected after their fourth year in the organization. Players signed at 18 or younger have five years until that juncture.
Of course, an addition to the 40-man roster means an automatic invitation to big-league camp in spring training. So it's more than a label (and possibly more money).
The Phillies sent many of their more interesting decisions to the Arizona Fall League for further evaluation. We know the Rule 5 draft has generally been kind to the Phillies (Shane Victorino, David Herndon, Michael Martinez), but rarely have the Phillies lost a player of substance. (Remember Miguel Asencio?) That means, generally, they have been able to make the right call on who or who not to protect.
The biggest name to hit Arizona is Tyson Gillies, who is actually playing baseball -- and that matters more than any of his numbers. Figure the Phillies will protect Gillies, so long as he demonstrates health, because he was acquired in the Cliff Lee trade. Gillies started strong in his first round of extensive games in two years but is 0 for his last 6 with four strikeouts. He's hitting .227 in nine games with more walks (seven) than hits (five). Nonetheless, if Gillies can stay on the field this fall and avoid the hamstring and foot issues that befell him, it's a success.
Another name to watch in Arizona is Tyler Cloyd, a 6-foot-3 righthander. He was an 18th-round pick in 2008 and posted a 2.78 ERA at double-A Reading with a stellar 99:15 K:BB in 106 2/3 innings. He turns 25 in May and began the season at single-A Clearwater, pitching below his age. But he was moved to Reading in June, turned into a starting pitcher, and something clicked. He was shelled in his third AFL start, so he has a 6.00 ERA in nine innings.
Cody Overbeck stands to gain a lot, too. He's much in the mold of Matt Rizzotti, who went to Arizona and hit .333 last fall. That was enough to garner a 40-man roster spot and look-see in spring training. It didn't last long because the Phillies saw an overmatched Rizzotti against better pitching than he sees in the Eastern League.
Like Rizzotti, Overbeck doesn't have a position. The 25-year-old is at first base after the Phillies tried him at third and left field. However, unlike Rizzotti, Overbeck has shown an ability to hit for power beyond double A. Rizzotti hit .333 in the AFL last fall, but only two hits were for extra bases. Overbeck already has two in eight games. He slugged .416 in 68 games at triple A to finish the season. Given what the Phillies did with Rizzotti last winter -- plus the injury to Ryan Howard -- Overbeck could merit a spot for further evaluation come springtime.
The guys over at Phuture Phillies have a decent discussion going about other names. Phillippe Aumont is a lock for a 40-man spot. So is Sebastian Valle, the young catching prospect who needs at least two more years. (And yes, teams have been known to snag unprotected single-A catching prospects before.) Jiwan James has a lot of promise after only three years since becoming a full-time hitter, but it's raw. (He also runs a fantastic Twitter account.) Because of that, James could be on the bubble. The Phillies may decide his profile indicates no team will take a chance on him. Or, just to be safe, he can be added.
That's probably not enough to distract you from remembering that Game 1 was supposed to be in South Philadelphia tonight.
Have a question? Send it to Matt Gelb's Mailbag.
VOTE: Phillies: Stay or Go?
Amaro needs to resign Rollins, get Hamels signed for 5 years/$80M,
get Willingham for LF, Ramirez for 3B, Dobbs for bench, Ryan Doumit as back-up catcher, get another closer if Madson is too expensive, and you have a WS winning team next year:
1 Rollins (sign him, he the best choice vs cost, 4yrs may do it)
2 Utley
3 Pence
4 Howard
5 Aramis Ramirez 26 HR, .306 BA, 93 RBI,
6 Josh willingham 29 HR, .246 BA, 98 RBI
7 Victorino
8 Ruiz
Bench:
(IF) Polanco
(1b LF) Mayberry
(IF) Valdez
(RF,3B) Dobbs 8 HR, .275 BA, 49 RBI
(C) Ryan Doumit 8 HR, .303 BA, 30 RBI— jeff007- Doumit's not a backup player....Ramirez would be a dream come true, but it's alot of coin... — bearsfriend
- Regardless of how many runs the Phils scored, the last few years have shown that the Phils need a top leadoff hitter(who really works the pitcher). I'd like them to keep Rollins, but with the understanding that he will bat somewhere else in the order. I'd love for them to add more power(every team wants that), but let's start with the leadoff hitter and go from there.— 76erfn
- "Regardless of how many runs the Phils scored, the last few years have shown that the Phils need a top leadoff hitter(who really works the pitcher). "
--
I don't get it. The ONLY reason for a "top leadoff hitter" is to score runs. So why wouldn't it matter how many runs they scored? If they already score a lot (they led the NL from the time Utley joined them in May), is improving the the leadoff batter really a priority? And by the way, where would you play him? Not shortstop, I assume.— aladou - i am constantly amazed at how the fans on this board are so non baseball fans. if the phils aren't in it they won't watch. a guess all those years they finished last you guys never watched the WS? some baseball fans. the series is always interesting. what a bunch of cry babies. wahhh. the phillies are not in the series so i won't watch. grow up!— benny1
- Why was Brandon Moss dropped from the 40 man roster? 23 HR's and 80 RBIs in a partial season sounds pretty good to me. I saw him plat when LV was in Rochester and he looked great. And then we add back 40 year old Jose Contraras. Is this how we are getting younger? I would really like to understand the Moss decision.— LarryB2
- JUST IN; Whitney BUSTed JUGS gun.— NewMick314
- I love Moss, have seen him a dozen times. BUT, he has previously flunked trials with BoSox and Bucs. If he is resigned by I-pigs, he will be only an hour away in '12.— NewMick314
- Thanks for the input on Moss NewMick. He may not have worked out before with other MLB teams but he might be a late bloomer like Bautista. With him off the 40 man roster he could be picked up by anybody. I'd like to hear the Phillies reasoning on this.— LarryB2
- Totally agree. — bearsfriend
- Yeah Yeah tell me something that matters because it doesn't matter who the players are when Larussa proved he can win with a bunch of less highly touted players and win the world series then it is proven in all sports you need good coaching. Think about it Rueben! I'm just saying!— male
- I liked Flores also as a backup. You could add Pujols, Lincecum and Braun and still loose a 5 game series. It just can happen.— Don w
- Yeah, you can loose a WS in any given moment, but regressing 3 years in a row (WS lost, NLCS lost to NLDS lost), after improving the pitching and a little bit offensively with Polanco and Pence is ridiculous. There is something very wrong here, and some of us know what it is and the GM seems to get it now.— EL Zorro
- just as i'd love to be a fly on the wall when phillies writers get together to discuss over beers what they REALLY think, i'd love to be the spider in a nearby web when dave monty talks to whomever he confides in about the incredible sums of his gelt spent over the past some years for turkeys like eaton, garcia, baez, raul, lidge, blanton and, oh, what's his name? ah, right: howard.— bubba church & granny hamner
