Amaro: Phillies probably done making moves
The reality increases daily of a Phillies outfield hodgepodge formed by Ben Revere, Domonic Brown, John Mayberry Jr., Darin Ruf and Laynce Nix. The man tasked with forming the 2013 roster was willing to admit as much Monday.
Amaro: Phillies probably done making moves
Matt Gelb, Inquirer Staff Writer
The reality increases daily of a Phillies outfield hodgepodge formed by Ben Revere, Domonic Brown, John Mayberry Jr., Darin Ruf and Laynce Nix. The man tasked with forming the 2013 roster was willing to admit as much Monday.
"We're likely going with what we've got," Ruben Amaro Jr. said.
Spring training begins Feb. 12 in Clearwater, Fla., and the Phillies will arrive with hopes pinned to an aging, expensive core. Youth is the choice in the outfield, for better or worse.
"There's some risk in going with a possible double platoon or letting the guys we have battle it out for playing time," Amaro said. "There are some advantages to that, as well. The best-man-wins type of scenario can be created and likely will be created in spring training. At the same time, a lot of these guys are not proven everyday major-league players. But that doesn't mean they cannot become them."
The GM did not eliminate the possibility of a veteran addition for the outfield, but admitted within his current constraints (both monetary and player-wise), there is not much more than a marginal upgrade available. He categorized his current pursuit as "looking around for some low-risk, high-reward type of players."
There is money to spend, if the Phillies maintain a similar payroll to 2012. The Phillies are an estimated $7 million shy of the $178 million luxury tax threshold. Amaro said he has "a little bit" to spend. He would not say if he has extended any formal offers to current free agents.
The Phillies have 39 players on their 40-man roster.
What Amaro and his lieutenants may have decided is those resources are best utilized later. The reported options in free agency and trades -- Scott Hairston, Vernon Wells, Alfonso Soriano -- are flawed. There could be a better fit come July. Should the Phillies enter 2013 with wiggle room, they could be well-positioned for the splash everyone expected this winter.
"If there is a player that is better who we feel could help us now, we'll utilize our resources to get him," Amaro said. "If there isn't, then we may be better served to hold on a see what we could do during the year."
Chances are the Phillies start 2013 with an unproven outfield. If anything, it should make for a fascinating spring training.
Have a question? Send it to Matt Gelb's Mailbag.
Comments (158)
I don't know how any of these non-baseball, non-SPORTS "comments" that are "routed for approval" would pass even the most superficial scrutiny. This post is addressed to those philly.com editors (if indeed there are such people) that allegedly read them and post them. WHY ARE YOU POSTING THEM? They are insulting to anyone with a shred of decency or intelligence. Don't you realize that by posting them you are only condoning and encouraging them? If anyone from any other city reads this stuff, it's no wonder they make the bad remarks about Philadelphia fans!— dwp66- PHILLY.COM Editors - Please check to see if "eman" is one and the same as Rube-the-Boob or a Phillies PR person and ban him. When you are done, have someone write an article that evaluates the job RAJ has done as G.M. since he took the job (when the Phillies were World Champions). Maybe when it is written (by someone other than warbiscuit), real fans will see the truth and push ownership to .... FIRE AMARO!! Thanks.— Copper34
- PHILLY.COM Editors: DUDESKINS has a point. Look at Warbiscuit's racist post on Amaro and please ban him. Also, check to see if Copper 34 is one and the same. Thanks.— eman
- DONNIE-B-GOOD!!! You got it, man. I like your optimism. The season will hinge on whether young boys Brown and Ruf stand up to it all.
Veterans healthy Young ones come through = PLAYOFFS— BullZinski - @dudeskins--right --the refrain of the "tolerant" --if you have no response to someone's positions, call them a "racist" --laughably you have no idea what my race or anyone else's here might be --you're in a "race" to the bottom of the intellectual and moral depths...you evil nazisympathisizing loser— warbiscuit
- Well, I must say, the "comments" here top anything I have read previously. Does ANYONE pay any attention to what it says directly below this very window I am typing in? "Civil, friendly..treat others with respect and in a way that you would want to be treated....responsible for what you say - and finally, stay on topic." Guys - how can you read those words and type the things you do? It doesn't make you cool, or smart, or tough. Baseball, remember?— dwp66
- @warbiscuit: "as a graduate of a significanlty better school than Stanford undergrad..." I find that hard to comprehend considering you are incapable of posting one comment without myriad spelling and grammatical errors. Stones and glass houses...— MrLincoln
- @phillyboyinnyc --my issues with CallisonTaylor are quite personal, based on some past inappropriate posts and attacks ...I generally do not waste my time with ignoramuses who who have nothign to say other than attack other posters , but CallisonTaylor has set himself for special mention..in your case I will likely continue to ignore you but just wanted to explain that my personal distate for CallisonTaylor is not representative of my need to attack the other 60% of morons who post here— warbiscuit
Warbiscuit, I stayed out of the doggie wars, you and your mirror troll that you attract, but you have Tourette's of the keyboard. I would think, based on your posts, there is irony in your calling someone an imbecile, especially when you do so in three consecutive posts within minutes of each other. Do you forget a single word or adjective, or need to consult a thesaurus to finish a post?
For someone as steeped in baseball knowledge as you, so focused on the Rube, why don't you ever try to peel back the front man, which is all Amaro is, a yes-man for a group ownership of unknowns, non-baseball people, who thrive on the CHEAP, and like gluttons, do so by raking in Yankee revenue sharing in the 90's, CBP money when built by taxpayers, and now the lucrative MLB TV rights? No one will ever see their closed books. This, I suggest, is where your inquiry might start. Then you can easily explain why they have so much cap space, not for the mid-season, but to save $$$. Remember that little salary dump of Pence and Victorino to avoid the luxury tax last summer?
Rube and Gomer may be clueless indeed, but they serve the interests of venal, penurious owners, which started with the Mr. Haney of baseball ownership by committee, one William Giles.- I think PhillyBoy may be onto something. There was a time (before Philly.com) that I thought the Phillies' ownership was just milking the die-hard fans. I understood Scotty Rolen's desire to leave, Shilling's departure, Drew's decision, etc. Then the new ball-park, the Thome acquisition, the big payroll ... I cut them some slack b/c I thought they had finally figured out that the smarter way to run their business was to win. Now, I am back to square one. It started when I read the article about Sabremetrics (the article came out when Billy Bean was in town - speaking at Villanova, I think). Rube was quoted in the article - saying that he doesn't look at that stuff. My first thought was: "Uh oh." How can a GM ignore data that can help him make better decisions, I thought. How can the organization employ an "old school GM" in this age of big data and analytics? Then last season's shenanigans - where they didn't tell us the truth about Howard's and Utley's injuries until after they had the season-ticket holders' money in their coffers. Something stinks behind that curtain. We need a real journalist (or warbiscuit) to dig deeper! However - things were better when we had a real GM (Gillick). In fact, I think he helped put together a Championship team!! Can we crucify the owners after we fire Rube-the-Boob? — Copper34
- CallisonImbecileTaylor: Rube won "five divisions in a row.." no, Goebbels, Rube won 3 divisions, not 5 --with team built by Gillick
"Posters say Amaro is an idiot because he never gives young guys a chance." --no, he's an idiot for never putting together a team with depth, balance, bench and bullpen capable of winning in the post-season, losing all the Phils prospects with his buy high-sell low methods, and now resulting in a mediocre team with no young talent and a meager future"
and you're an idiot for posting imbecilic comments and quoting mass-murderers— warbiscuit - CallisonImbecileTaylor: Rube "became the general manager of one of the most successful teams in the sport...",,yes he took a championship caliber team and destroyed, turing it into useless trash with not present or future, you #$$%% nazisymptathising hypocritical moron— warbiscuit
- callisontaylor likes to cite goebbels and other propanagists and spews hate and idiocy— warbiscuit
- CallisonTaylor is indeed inferior to any other living beings— warbiscuit
- CallsionTaylor is as ignorant as he is a moron -still thinks that Rube was g.m. in 2008 as he has repeated numeous times— warbiscuit
- CallisonTaylor-- an apparent moron and imbecile -- is impressed that Ruben --as the son of a mojor leaguer, an with a minority surname - got an athletic acceptance into a top college... as a graduate of a significanlty better school than Stanford undergrad, I can assure you that, based on CLueless Rube's body of work over 4 yr, that he is indeed a moron, and CallisonTaylor -based on his even stupider body oif work, is an even bigger inbecile— warbiscuit
- Well it is finally here for all to see, the true driving force behind Warbiscuit. RACIST HATRED. It has been obvious his repeated zeal for Reuben bashing has been over the top and now you see why. For those who follow and fail to see what it is that you support , it ought to be clear to you now. His facts and his opinions may be right on some counts, Amaro may be the worst GM and the players he says are trash may not be very good but there is no doubt about his motivation just as I and others have pointed out on several occasions before. He does a good job hiding his racist rants but as I have said many times his bashing has nothing to do with Baseball and never has. Maybe now you all will see and understand. I guess it took CallisonTaylorRojas challenging him to finally reveal his racist bent and for that we can all be grateful. Sorry CTR you have to suffer his insults but maybe now many will think about who they follow and mimic on here. By the way he is not the only one but he is the most devoted to the cause. I find it sad he can't even type out the Rojas part of the man he is attacking. The hate must really run deep.
— DUDESKINS - Firstly, those individuals who keep mentioning Adams' arm while calling Amaro, a Stanford graduate, a "moron" and an "imbecile" should try to find out the nature of his injury.
Secondly, suppose Doc somehow pitches like Doc. With that starting rotation, Adams, Pap, Bastardo, and the others couldn't the Phillies have dominating pitching?
Lastly, a lot of fans of less fortunate teams would have a whole lot of hope if their team had our pitching and Howard, Utley, Rollins, Young, Chooch, Revere, Ruf and Brown and some money to make moves at the trade deadline.
Name calling is childish, and it demonstrates a lack of personal integrity. Amaro graduated from Stanford, won a national championship as a player on the college level, played major league baseball, and became the general manager of one of the most successful teams in the sport.
Where do some of you come off acting as though you are infinitely superior to this man? I don't get it. Amaro is a real person, not an imaginary whipping boy for Internet trolls.— CallisonTaylorRojas - The thing is, Doc doesn't have to pitch like the old Doc if there's a true team effort and others contribute. As I said before: How about 32-34 wins between Hamels and Lee? How about 19-20 between Kendrick and Lannan? All very well within reason and not top seasons for anyone. Say Doc has a #3 type year and only manages 13-14 wins. You're at 64-68 wins from your rotation. The bullpen was regularly winning 30 games since 2008 until last year. Suppose they get back up to the high 20's. You're over 90 wins with no one person carrying the team. The keys are minimal time on the DL for key players, keeping older guys fresh for the long haul, and having no further offensive regression. My biggest fear is that second one. Charlie is not a guy to rest and substitute. We can hope one of the new coaches or his own management is in his ear about that. If he grinds Utley out there for every game he'll be waning after the all-star break. If they carry Frandsen and Galvis as two of the bench players and with Mayberry and Ruf able to play 1B they should be thinking of getting the core guys some regular days off. That includes Utley, Howard and Rollins even if you're winning with them playing. Charlie doesn't get it -- that winning stops once you wear those guys down. He needs to show more confidence in his younger players and subs. — s
- If the Phils were going to go with an platoon of outfield platooners, then they should have kept their best-hitting outfielder, Juan Pierre.— Boru
- Pierre had a resurgent year last year, and the Phillies were lucky to have him.
But that was only the 2nd season in the last 8 that he wasn't a well below average hitter, and at the age of 35 chances are very good that he will be below average again in 2013. Combine that with his no longer functioning arm, and it's not surprising that the Phillies chose to move on.— schmenkman - The Phils did pick up Revere, a backup center fielder from a team that was 20 games out of first by July. That concerns me a bit.
If nothing else, Revere will save the team money on replacement baseballs since none his hits have ever made it to the stands.
To be fair, Revere can outrun a lot of line drives. On the other hand, he needs to put the ball in somebody else's hand first in order to get the ball back to an infielder. Johnny Callison he's not. For that matter, Nate Schierholtz he's not. Let's hope he can outrace infield throws to first base. The team could use somebody who is theoretically fast enough to become a better base stealer than he currently is and get this year's team into scoring position a few more times than last year's team managed it.— wbramh - 90 losses this year?— Repubrebirth
- RUBE IS AN IDIOT!!The Phils will suck until he is gone.I bet Charlie can't wait until 2013 is over.Whoever heard of platooning 2 outfield positions and really thing you have a chance to win anything?Absolutely Amazing!!— snowman100
- You mean besides Jim Fregosi in 1993? Or Casey Stengel in the 1950s? — schmenkman
- good headline...they're done alright— garyv
- How can they be done improving the team? I didn't think they started yet!,— Ssteve115
- Copper - apparently you misunderstood my post. Yes indeedy Ruben isn't spending THIS year because there is zip out there and I think that his restraint is absolutely correct. Then, I agree with Donnie B with his assessment of the team the Phillies will have on Opening Day. I just don't see where this team is so awful. I know a lot depends on just how healthy Utley and Howard are (and STAY!) this year, but I don't see how they can fail to pick up at least 10 w's with the changes made to what was an 81-81 team last year. Mike Young will solidify the middle of the batting order, taking much heat off Utley, Howard and yes, Darin Ruf, who is gonna be a real keeper. As for the other corner, in order for Mayberry and Brown to do well, they MUST stick to a platoon to keep them out of bad matchups.— dwp66
- I think you misunderstood my (many) posts. I don't think the Phillies are "awful." I do think the OF is the worst in baseball (on paper). Do you really know what Michael Young will do? he had a terrible offensive year last season -and we are asking him to come to a new league and play a position he doesn't seem confident about playing. I like Michael Young. If we were an AL team who needed a DH, I might like the acquisition. But, having watched the last few off-seasons where Rube ignored real third basemen who were available (Beltre and Aramis Ramirez), I get frustrated that we were forced to deal for a guy that is another question-mark. Same thing for CF. I didn't want Bourn and I didn't want him to over-pay for Upton, but if you go with Revere (a slap-hitter who doesn't come close to having the "pop" of a Shane Victorino), then you need to add Hamilton (or at least Swisher) so that the only question-mark left is the other OF position (where you can get away with Brown/Ruf. Nix and Mayberry do not belong in any discussion about Championship teams/rosters. IF THE STARS ALIGN, the Phillies could have a decent year and make the Playoffs. But, this organization should not be in the position of having to wait for the stars to align. The GM's mistakes have put them in that position. — Copper34
- Lets wait and see. That's the beauty of sports. If baseball was played on paper who would care. It's the suspense and the beauty of the game just enjoy the ride.— Cactusclarke
- Right -- like we have a choice!! Of course we will "wait and see," but when do you start maximizing your chances with a GM that knows what he is doing? — Copper34
- My position entering the season was Josh Hamilton or bust, but Hamilton at no more than 4 years. He got more and I have slid to where Amaro is now: Didn't want to overpay Victorino, Ross, Upton, Youkilis (even for 1 year) and (eventually) Bourn. That ties our hands for years to come.
Last off-season, post-ers were ridiculing Amaro for no discipline, as he signed Rollins to a 3-year deal that looks modest by 2012 standards and Papelbon. "Show discipline," they wrote. "Sign a Fernando Rodney" (which is like hitting the lottery).
This year, Amaro -- shows discipline. Revere is under $600,000 per year and, at worst, will play Gold Glove caliber centerfield, hit 8th and steal 40 bags a year for the next four years. At worst. Michael Young at third base is no Gold Glover but, 1 year (his last career contract year) at $6 million on an aging team that needs an RBI boost -- might just work. And Adams, on a two-year deal, will help a bullpen that actually got its act together late last year.
I see an 85-87 win season, even with some health issues, in contention much of the season. Get us into the playoffs and, if the top 3 starters are healthy, we could go far.— eman - I look at 4 main areas: rotation, bullpen, starters, bench. If the rotation and starters can combine for 10 more wins and the offense doesn't regress, you have a 90 win season. The bullpen won (I think) 22 games last year whereas the 3 years prior they averaged around 33 wins. So a better bullpen, on its own, can possibly make up half the difference. The starters had issues, particularly Lee and Halladay. The chances of Lee pitching 30 or more games again and winning only 6 are pretty slim. Last year was the only time in his career where he got less than 14 wins pitching 30 or more games. Assuming no extended time on the DL, Lee and Halladay could easily win 8 more games than last year between them. If Lannan and KK can just be themselves they only need to win 19-20 between them. A better bench could easily mean 3-4 more wins. The keys are (a) no huge injuries; (b) the offense moving back toward 2008/2009 even just a little rather than moving further away from it. In short, there are reasons to watch.
With football I say you need 4 games to get a read. With baseball I say you need to go into mid-to-late May to get a read. So relax, enjoy spring training, see what unfolds and watch some baseball.— s - Ruin Tomorrow Jr has done another bang up job of tearing down what Pat Gillick developed— Bobphxville
- This is pretty far off the mark. Gillick's biggest factor was benefiting from the farm guys brought in by Ed Wade. Without Hamels, Howard and Utley there would be no 2008 World Series. Rollins was brought into the system just before Ed Wade but he's another gift Gillick inherited. Gillick definitely made the right moves around that core but let's not think be built the whole thing himself. And realize that he's still a senior adviser for the Phils. Also remember that Gillick gave us Geoff Jenkins, Freddy Garcia and Adam Eaton. So he doesn't walk on water. — s
@advantasux: Right on the mark, my friend! This is not a team coming off a 102 win season. It's a team with a .500 record with aging and perpetually injured players, with an incompetent cheerleader and apologist of a manager that will inevitably bat Rollins in the one hole when Revere is perfect for that role, and with Doc on the downside of his career, leaving us with only two solid starters (Hamels and Lee). So what does the boy genius do? He replaces a 3rd baseman on the downside of his career with another player on the downside of his career, picks up a set up man who is a LARGE question mark due to the severity of the procedure he underwent in the off season, picks up a AAA starter in Lannan to replace a solid 3rd or 4th starter, and does NOTHING to secure a power bat in the outfield, either by trade or free agency. In other words, he went BACKWARD. With the moron Amaro at the helm and with Manuel the bobblehead as his first mate, this team is, once again, destined for a 3rd place finish in the NL East. Nice job, Amaro. Hey, maybe Reid can put a good word in for you out there in KC. The only problem with that is that they are headed in the opposite direction, talent-wise, and they wouldn't want you anywhere near their team.- @ghost, the rest of us and the team itself is gearing up for spring training and hoping to work the kinks out of our game, while you are already in mid-season form. Another terrific post, my friend. Right on the mark on each and every comment.
Still looking forward to pitchers & catchers and hoping against hope guys like you and me are wrong about this team for this season, but the difference in feeling for us fans in just two short years (how excited we all were for 2011 and even 2012 versus how we feel now) is just a vast chasm that this GM has no idea how to address.— advantasux - This Rube got smoked in the off season. You unload to make moves and you come up with mud on your face . Your team will be irrelevant by the time schools out for summer. A strikeout king at first a weak kneed guy at second while the new guy at third is coming off a bad year. Oh and let us not forget captain pop up at short. Hope the summer T.V. line up is better than this.— d1955h
- Amoron reeks from dung of the bovine. His promises are nothing more that fan base pleasers. The guy should be selling used cars.— gentian
- the problem here is that the window of opportunity is limited. I give it two years. At the end of that time Halliday and Lee will be declining rapidly along with Utley and Howard. The sad part is we are entering one of those years with an extremely mediocre outfield. The hope is that one of the untested players steps up to the plate and propels us to more that last years .500 finish. Time will tell if Brown and/or Ruf can excel at the major league level.— lefty27
- TO THE TOOLS ON THIS BOARD WHO THINK THE PHILLIES SHOULD HAVE ALL-STARS AT EVERY POSITION:
The Phillies needed a 3B, CF, at least 1 corner OF, and bullpen help. Amaro has addressed 3 of these 4 needs. AS bad as they were last season, nobody can fix everything in 1 off-season.— jman - Right now, you'd have to say the bench is better than last year. Last year we had Schneider as back-up catcher. This year we have Kratz (once Carlos is back). Last year we had a useless-in-the-NL Thome, Wigginton, Nix and Martinez. In place of Martinez you'd pencil in Galvis and Frandsen this year. Galvis with much more upside and great defense, Frandsen hitting very well last year and with something to prove. Nix is still there. I had to laugh about the 4 month calf injury ... I'm not a huge Nix fan. But maybe he'll prove me wrong. With the current outfielders you figure Mayberry projects as the other OF bench guy. That's a better bench than last year in my opinion.— s
- We do love to win on paper. Problem is they don't hand the World Series to the best team on paper. You have to win games. Usually the best line-up doesn't win (check Phillies 2011). the team that wins is the one whose players out perform expectations, the team that makes solid in season moves (note:solid not splashy), and the team that stays healthy. Phillies have just as good a chance as anyone at this point in the season, and a better chance than many. We ain't Houston or Pittsburgh.— woody7236
- Just watch when Cody Ross tears it up in Arizona. Count me in on the "I told you so" crowd when it happens. Sadly, Ruby Tuesday struck out on the OF this winter.— Sam Crow
- It isn't really a bad idea to see how Ruf and Brown respond. The real issues are Doc/Howard/Utley and their health anyway.
- What were they 14 games over .500 from sometime in July. Yeah I'll take that over a whole season. We are good to go!!!— KINGOFZED
Well, that offseason amounted to a whole lot of next-to-nothing. A 27 year-old Michael Young would've been nice, but a 36 y/o? Not so much. John Lannan? Meh. Ben Revere? Now he could do some damage, I believe. I've been in the dark about one thing (among many things): what is the status of the Phillies getting their own network? Would they need to wait til they have one to pursue big FAs? Admittedly, there wasn't much out there this season other than Hamilton (who is about as snake bitten as a person can be), but wouldn't they need to make a big deal to ensure a deal gets done in the next couple of seasons?— kjuggs77- just renewed my MLB.TV subscription so I can watch another team. Any other team, really.— scootch
- Hey guys you can't have everything - commitments were made to Utley, Howard, Lee et al when they were looking at solid futures - they had one snake bit year injury wise - plug an eighth inning black hole reinforce centerfield defense and get a quality third baseman til Cody Ashce is ready, Howard will be normal Utley and Haladay may never be the same but we can hope.— robinlupe
- Guys, I'm normally pretty unhappy with Amaro (Smuggles) too.....however, this offseason has been better than last. He's done more right than wrong IMO....There really is nobody he could have gone out and gotten this winter, it's a thin and overrated, overpaid class....you can't force other GMs to trade with you and you can't force FAs to sign with you, if they don't want to. He is also a bit hamstrung by the deep long term contracts he gave everybody to come here and stay here, but as the Giants just proved with nearly a 75% roster turnover in 3 years, you don't have to have all those long term contracts to win and you don't need to have all those HRs to win either. We need to see what Ruf can do and you have to think that the Phils brass has seen enough of him now to know he is gonna make it as a legit power threat. If something should happen to Howard, or need to happen to Howard they can always plug him back in at 1st base and our infield "D" will improve exponentially. As Ed Wade used to say and Gillick used to say and now Amaro says....."we know what the players are capable of, we've seen the backs of their baseball cards, now we just need for them to go out and do it."— Mark1npt
- read it and know you heard it here first- high water says "Kendrick will surprise this summer."
BJ Upton is not his brother and will be a bust at 75mil. Hamilton would have worked but something tells me he would not have been a good fit with Philadelphia and if you had signed him you would have given up the 16th pick in the draft and you would have mortgaged your chance at the younger outfield prospects that will soon be coming into free agancy. got to feel bad for Halladay though. not exactly what he thought he'd be dealing with when he signed. Young DOES fill the hole at third. Wait and see on Revere. D. Brown has to keep hitting line drives, not worry about the power numbers and do his best Bake McBride imitation. Phils need to get Davey Lopes back to teach Brown how to steal bases. Brown can be effective if he hits for average and steals bases. Spring training should be dedicated to improving Brown's ability to steal bases.— high water - One can only hope.
— 24sDad - Just say Nix. Actually my outfield suggestion of the day is Justin Ruggiano of the Marlins. He still has a problem with strikeouts, but he has some power and he really hits lefties. I suspect the Phillies could ship them Mayberry and a prospect.— JayW
- Go with Revere, Ruf, Brown and Mayberry, what is there to lose?........a pennant.....get real:-)— daystrum
- This isn't looking very good.
- Lets get this straight all you neysayers. Last season, the Phillies were 81-81 with 1/2 a season of a 60% Howard, 1/2 season with a 70% Utley, no third baseman until Frandsen was called up, 2/3 a season of a 50% Halladay, 1/2 season w/o anyone worthy in the bullpen except Papelbon, two months w/o Victornio/Pense, two months with Blanton traded, a month w/o Lee, Worley shut down, and Kendrick/Cloyd manning the back end of the rotation. And folks are predicting sub .500 with Howard/Utley back, Halladay back, a bullpen that may be reliable, a 3B who is healthy? Add to that a CF who hits way above .262, a RF who potentially could hit 20 HR's, and a RF who should hit equal to .250-.270? Mmmmmmmmmm....I would think a healthy Howard, Utley, Halladay, 3B would at least be worth 1 win for all the sub .500 predictors. Oh well, let Spring training begin and lets see how things pan out. Typical Philly, expect the worst. Instead, its a new year. Health to the Phans and hopefully, to the Phillies. In my opinion, the glass is 1/2 full right now.— drhoffman
- I agree, dr.hoffman. It is half-full. When Rube took over, it was teeming -- filled up. Not sure why you predict that Utley and Doc are healthy - but I sure hope you are right. If those two are 100%, the Phillies are in good shape. I hardly remember Utley being 100% ("Chase Utley - you are the man!" still rings in my head). And I haven't read anything to suggest that 2012 was just a blip for Doc. More disturbingly is that I haven't read anything about Howard's off-season. Shouldn't he be working hard to cure what ills him at the plate? What is he doing this off-season to improve? Is he working with anyone? Is he thinking of ways to beat the shift (which probably costs him 30 hits a year)? And another thing -- is JStroll still the leadoff hitter?!? — Copper34
Wow! That was a quick summer, wasn't it? There no reason to buy tickets now, unless you want to see a bunch of broken-down geriatrics stagger to a sub-.500 record.- We have starting pitching. We added a reliable arm in the pen, added a center fielder, a third baseman, and retained flexibility to adjust on the fly in season. Given what was available, and the absurd amount of money that was thrown around this offseason, i think the phillies had a productive offseason. A healthy 2013 will provide for a fun summer. The naysayers aren't forced aboard.— Golden17
- I think Ruf has a good chance to be a good player. There's not much more a guy can do to show it then hit 50 HRs the prior year. That would make RF the only hole in the lineup. They just have to hope for better seasons by the core with fewer injuries. I hope Utley has been keeping busy so his knee doesn't fail him again this season.— Phillies2008WSChamps
- dundermuffin, I agree with you. 3rd place at best. I can't see them beating out the Nats or the Braves but also I can't see them being worse than the Muts or the Fish.— vietnamvet
- The Phils did not stand pat; for the sake of argument, even if they did, simply standing pat would start the season with a healthy Utley and Howard. Look how we did when they both came back (at less than 100%).
Having REvere on base changes the dynamics from no one on base. Our veterans will be better hitters because of guys on base. Why do some keep saying we have no prospects? We have terrific bullpen prospects.— terrycindyian - Who are these terrific bullpen prospects? Aumont's got a big arm. that's about it. Diekman could be good if he ever gets control.
Ruben could have picked up one more bullpen piece, but I suspect he's saving the money until the deadline. - Bastardo is very good when he's consistent. DeFratus is a guy who I think has promise. Horst is another one. You figure if 2-3 guys can build consistency into some of the flashes we've shown, they're going to be be valuable contributors: Bastardo, Diekman, Aumont, Horst, DeFratus, Stutes. I put guys like Schwimer, Savery, Ramirez and Rosenbert a step below that first group but one of them (maybe Schwimer) could also surprise us. The point is they have a lot of young arms to try out. If Adams can offer stability in the 8th you can ease the young guys in a lot better. It's another reason I'd spend for another veteran bullpen arm. With that mix of experience and youth the bullpen has a shot to be pretty good. Last year, bullpen wins dropped way off. If they can just get back to the average they were at the 3-4 years before that's close to enough wins for a post-season appearance (over last year anyway). — s
- No more season tickets for me.— albanykey
- I don't see it as standing pat. The Phils took care of three big holes: centerfield (now locked up for years), third base (a short-term fix prior to seeing what Asche can do in a year or so) and set-up man (possibly a bigger need that even more power). Yes, RAJ removed Worley from the ML roster but he replaced his with Lanham. Is that really a big difference when you're talking about a #4 or #5 starter? So what we're really down to is the lack of his signing a free agent power hitter. The problem is that the team would not be strengthened long-term by overpaying tremendously for the level of free agent talent that was available this year. Especially if that signing cost them a first round draft pick. I think you have to give a guy like Ruf a chance. That leaves right field as the issue. Can Brown become the star they've been waiting for? I don't know but he's only 25 years old so let's find out. If he or Ruf can't cut it then the Phils can probably have a better shot at a power hitter, at a lower cost, through a trade during 2013 vs. through free agency during this off-season. And for all those who have written Brown off already, keep in mind that Mike Schmidt, at the age of 24, hit .196 with 18HR and 52 RBI. Thankfully there was no internet then as people would have called for his release after that sad debut. And , no, I'm not comparing their talents. (Not everyone is a star right away. No one was excited at the time at the acquisitions of Jason Werth and Shane Victorino. And how many major acquisitions did the SF Giants make in their TWO WS championships? It amazed me when people write players off immediately or don't get the value of lesser acquisitions who fit a role on a winning team.)— inky93
- They didn't take care of three holes. They threw some dirt in them but they are still gaping. For those that think none of the prospects traded have done anything, how about the fact that D'Arnaud was the key piece in getting Dickey from the Mets. Many others are still working their way to the major leagues and are more highly regarded than anyone left in the Phillies organization (ex: Singleton). Also, as Copper points out, they let Vogelsong walk for nothing. — jfdatl
- You bring up Victorino and Werth. Additions like that (by Gillick) are the types of moves that build championship teams. Can someone point to a guy Amaro has brought in who has exceeded expectations? We can certainly point to young players he has let go who have been pretty good (Moss and Vogelsong, for instance). I can name a few free agents I wanted them to pursue who have been pretty good (Beltre, Aramis Ramirez, Willingham, Cuddyer). Where are the RAJ success stories? So far - the Hallday trade comes to mind (since those prospects have fizzled and Doc was great - for a while - here in Philly). I'm sure Rube has made some other really good moves, right? I just can't think of any ... — Copper34
- This is pathetic. Does everybody understand that, say 17% of 16 million is 2.7 million. If this boob signed Bourn for that 16 mil, he could then trade something like Brown, Revere, a top starter prospect, a top reliever prospect, and a top class A guy to Florida for Stanton. We would be 9 mil over the cap. Sign Lohse for 12 mil and we're 21 mil over the cap. That's a 3.5 mil cap hit. You don't think that team would make up that difference in hot dogs alone next year. The following year, we would be just about square with the cap. I'VE CALLED RUBEN STUPID BEFORE, BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I WILL CALL HIM CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!!!— cuyatm
- Philly sports has entered the twilight zone, circa mid-90s...Eagles may not make playoffs for another 5 years, Phillies still need a few years before they will even concede that Rube is an incompetent imbecile, then will need a few years after he's gone to try to rebuild the mess he will have left, Sixers will remain irrelevant seemingly forever and Flyers are still waiting for a comptent goaltender after a few decades-- so instead fans of the Old Soviet Union can watch Barack try to resurrect the socialist state that worked so well there.....oh well...— warbiscuit
- @ War, man, you almost had me totally agreeing with you. Until you brought up the OSU and Barack. Jeez.
Placing all of this on the 'incompetent imbecile' 'Rube' is giving him way too much credit. I think the HOF Club Offices, otherwise known as MontcoVille, has alot to do with what Mr. Amaro has to work with, how he ends up deploying it, etc. I am not saying RAJ didn't sign up the big contracts or propose them to MontCo; I AM saying that he doesn't do it w/o agreement to that approach, and the ability to spend that kind of money, or not spend it.
Not an apologist. Simply stating that it is a team 'fail' - not to rebuild this outift and outfield totally. The staying under the cap is BS in my opinion. You want to win? You want to blow away the competition? They'll spend, trust me. But somehow, they are pulling their punches letting (some) great talent wither while waiting for what? Gudot?
If I were Hamels I would be pissed. Big time.— 24sDad - Fire Clueless Rube NOW— warbiscuit
- What does it say about Monty (and the rest of the Blue Blood owners) that they keep little Rube around? When I think about it, I get angry at the fans that haven't put 2 2 together yet. This organization is back-assward. The best things they've done are: 1) trade for The Dude, 2) bring Gillick in as GM, and 3) create the Phillie Phanatic. — Copper34
- Let the haters hate but RAJ is right this time. Be thankful that he wouldn't pay $75M for Upton. And $13M/per year for Victorino? Both are crazy deals and similar money to Bourn would be ridiculous too. So the haters don't like giving away young players (though how many of the "great" prospects given away for Halladay or Lee have done ANYTHING in the majors so far?) but they also complain when the Phils get a young centerfielder who won't cost millions and is under team control for years. It's basically like getting Bourn for millions less and he's still criticized. You can't have it both ways. And are you telling me that Kendrick and Worley would have been that much better than Kendrick and Lanham? Why, because Worley showed potential two seasons ago? He might be good but he might also be the next J.A. Happ. Oh, and had RAJ given away a top draft pick to sign someone like Swisher, the same haters who criticize him now for not signing a top free agent power hitter would have criticized him for signing one. Personally I can't wait to see how Ruf works out. And the best part: if he doesn't cut it then all the haters who now support playing him will rip RAJ for even trying. Some people just need to lighten up. You can't be negative ALL the time. (Well, given the comments on this site, perhaps that's not true.)— inky93
- It's not about being "negative" or "positive" ... just realistic. The truth is tough for some Phillies fans. Not for me. The GM has failed in almost every personnel move he has ever made. IMO - he is a poor evaluator of talent who has stripped the farm system of its top prospects in the wrong deals for the wrong guys (Pence and Hamilton), over-paid and bid against himself for "star" free agents (Rollins, Pap), signed all the wrong guys (Wigginton, Thome, Nix, Quals, Willis, Martinez, Schneider - to name a few) and saddled the team with one of the worst contracts in pro sports (Howard's). I can't wait to see how Ruf works out (at least he is young and exciting) and will give Rube-the-Boob credit for going with him if Ruf actually hits well enough to justify playing him in the field (where he will certainly cost us some runs). But, when the GM is forced to surrender prospects for a guy he could have had as a free agent to fill a hole that is obvious to everyone, then I will continue to rip the GM. I don't "hate" on him - I just love the Phillies. And, I see (a little more clearly than some) just how big an epic fail he has been -- and how badly it has crippled this team. — Copper34
- doing almost nothing when your team won the division and the pennant is one thing, but doing so little when your team trailed by 20 with 20 to play borders on criminal, ESPECIALLY when you figure that the Phils will be the second-highest-spending team in the NL this season.
I'm trying to understand the stand-pat approach to a season where it seems almost guaranteed they will finish far up the track once again, and then have posters say that RAJ was right.— advantasux - Yikes, Although they will make a deal at some point for a RF or LF. Cannot platoon all season with two positions— phillyceltic
- Phillies will remain mediocre trash so long as they have a complete imbecile g.m. still defended by ownership and writers and too many moron fans— warbiscuit
- Wow, and here we thought what Rubens A. Moron, Jr. did in the offseason after the 2011 season could not be outdone.
Which is worse?
Bringing in a slate of Papelbon, Wigginton, Nix, Thome, Pierre, Qualls and Willis to attempt to complement a 102-win team,
OR
the hard-to-figure inaction of this offseason, coming off an 81-win season during which the Phils once trailed by as many as 20, with acquisitions of slap-hitter Revere, dubious-at-3rd-Michael Young, John Lannan, coming-off-surgery Mike Adams, with the subtraction of Vanimal through a trade?
Seriously, which is worse?— advantasux - If this is the case, we might as well get used to being a third-place team. Starting the season, at least three positions are well below average (corner outfield positions and catcher) and the back two of our starting rotation are no better than average. This essentially gives Charlie Manual a 23-man-roster defenseless against teams with deep bullpens that can turn the platoons around. Washington and Atlanta are clearly superior. If the Phillies are no longer going to try to contend, you have to wonder why they didn't trade Cliff Lee when they could get value.— Joe Swope
- @copper34: you've got it..good to see someone else who can speak basic logic to morons, and I see you have more patience than me...— warbiscuit
- Oh man, 3rd or 4th place, here we come! It looks to me like our Philly sports teams are heading for a down period. Eagles, check. Phillies, check. Flyers, check. Sixers, check.— 5NOT4
- This is just one more example of a front office that knows they are a third place team at best. Vernon Wells or Hairston or any of the other retreads being discussed aren't going to change the result. They are done. Time to move on.— jfdatl
- Laynce Nix is hardly part of a "youthful OF". While I like Laynce for ihs late inning PH ability and his occasional fill in at 1st or in LF.....playing much every week is gonna be tough. If he suffers another "4 month long calf tear"......the team is really in trouble. Just like the Eagles O line there is little depth/talent.— Mark1npt
- Amaro is as believable as Osama WAS!— twpman
- Settle down people...bottom line the season success never hindered on getting cody ross or nick swisher or not. Or any other mid level OF. It does and always depended on Utley and Howard being healthy and productive, Doc being Doc, and improved Bullpen. (if they all stink again it wouldnt matter who they signed - even if it was Josh Hamilton- they would be shot) They improved at third base, added a solid bat and some real speed in CF, and with Adams (hopefully Aumont etc step-up too) improved in the Pen. It's wait and see and hope with the other aforementioned guys and always was...and I think if givin the opp Ruf will add some power.— phillykid96
- The free agent market was thin and of course players are getting over paid. There were 2 players on the market that would have excited the fans with Hamilton and Upton. Unfortunately that didn't happen so they have to hold tight for now unless they can steal Justin Upton before the trade deadline. If Utley and Howard can get back to form that will compensate for a soft hitting outfield but there is no way they compete in the NL East with the current outfield unless Ruf hits 30. Maybe we get lucky and other teams will endure a never ending injury plagued season like the Phils last season.— STOP and GLOW
- It's really amazing the number of posters that refer to "RAJ traded away all of the prospects" while failing to note that virtually none of them since the trades began in the "Halladay trade sequence" have done seat in the Majors. He has in essence proven the fact that prospects are just that.....prospects, until they perform on the big stage. I won't mention all of them but out of Drabeck, D'Arneau, Taylor, Gose, Marson, Donald, Happ (1 good year in the majors), Singleton, who of that group or any of the ones I didn't mention have performed any better than Dom Brown ( who basically has been pretty poor). My guess is Drabec did OK until blowing out his arm and Gose has bounced around playing a little defense while batting ~195-200. The supposed Stanford guy, Taylor who was by some considered about equal to Brown, still has no more than maybe 15 ML AB's. So where did all the high quality "prospects" go and what have they done to make everyone so mad they were traded away. I will say that maybe the best of the bunch (D'Arneau) makes his debut with the Mets this year and proves me wrong.....at least on 1 "prospect"!— streetrat
- @street - you make some good points. But, when you trade highly regarded prospects (all of whom have onle a certain chance of MLB success), you deal away not only the production that player may give you, but you deal away a chip for another deal. I understand the philosophy of trading prospects for guys that can put you over the top now (especially if those guys are not available via free agency). But, when you trade top prospects for the likes of Oswalt and Pence, you are stripping your system of talent. Nobody expected or currently expects any of those guys to be successful big-leaguers at this point. The question isn't how much have they done for the Astos as of Jan 7, 2013. They are top prospects. They have value - both in terms of helping their organizations in the future (like Mike Trout did this past year), and in terms of being trade chips. The Yankees come to mind as a team that has very successfully traded over-hyped prospects for players to complement the ML team. that is a sound strategy ... what Rube has done is dumb. — Copper34
- Soriano flawed??? Really!!!. Ruf should start in left until Charlie makes him a dead pull hitter and his batting average disappears, then he can platoon.— wvdon
- Revere haters, please name the teams that have a middle-of-the-order centerfielder who covers as much ground as anyone in the game? Not every player is going to be a home run guy. And Copper, since when was Worley considered to have "great stuff"? I think the only great stuff is what you're smoking.— stefek23
- Rube: "...see what we could do during the year" -imbecile prefers to trade away top prospects during the year to fill the holes that he can't figure out how to fill during the off-season .. imnbecile should be tarred and feathered and run out of town— warbiscuit
- Listen people, we need our young players to play and produce, we need revere, brown and ruf to be everyday players, its imperative that happens, our core is old, we need youth, not some old marginal upgrades like hairston. veteran infield and young outfield, this seasons comes down to Halladay, Hamel and Lee, that is how we will win.— LOVEMYCITY
- Copper, why do you continually make a fool of yourself? Like you said, "fans are morons" and you are the leader of the pack. This team is far better than last year's and the additions that have been made will prove it. The only mystery is the health of the older players. The new young players in the outfield will prove that the decision to give them a chance was the correct one. We WILL win the division or at worst play for the wild card.— oakmontleo
- And - you are now officially a moron too. Seriously - they were pathetic last year. And they have done nothing to improve. What is different this year? I have my fingers crossed on Ruf too. Maybe they will get lucky and he will hit while not costing us too many runs in the field. Maybe Utley's knees have healed and he is ready to hit .300 w/ 25 HRs. Maybe Jimmy will stop strolling. Maybe Howard cares about baseball and has dedicated himself to improving at the plate and in the field. I know Doc has worked his hardest to bounce back. I have faith in Lee too. And Hamels is still great. Go Phillies!! — Copper34
- biggest imbecile in Philly sports in decades -- amazing that fans and writers tolerate this clueless incompetent moron, who makes Andy Reid a brilliant builder by comparison --the Clueless rube destroyed a championship caliber team and turned it into useless mediocre trash despite one of the highest budgets in baseball and a terrific farm system before he pi34ed it all way...worst team money can buy, worst g.m. in professional sports— warbiscuit
- since we are not going to win it all this year anyway, this seems like the move. Berkman got 10 million. Phils should not overpay for Hairston, instead they should wait until the trade deadline and see if they can pick up a better bat that will be dumped because the player is going into free agency next year. should be interesting. Ruf and Brown will get time to play and need to show something by the trade deadline.— high water
- RAJ should've picked up Scaturo and Cabrera. They would've solved his needs and would not have broken the bank.— BLUEBELLION
- that's right, they're "done" -- so long as an imbecile remains as their g.m., you can stick a fork in them and in their non-existent future— warbiscuit
- RAJ has blown his wad. Its time for a new stiff.
RAJ gets lots of praise for depleting the farm system for a group of aging pitchers who are on the downside of their careers. It was a short term gamble that failed, IN PART because of the injuries to Howard and Utley. The decision to let Werth go to Washington seemed the fiscally smart move, AT FIRST. In retrospect, it was a poor one. Now the Phillies have an aging team, past its prime, and little chance for improvement. Pretty soon RAJ will be able to implement the same strategy as Washington, i.e. stay in the cellar a several years and select good top draft picks. Meanwhile, though say bye bye to sell out crowds and the playoff revenues.— BLUEBELLION - Going with the current squad is preferable to spending too much on players who will not only displace real talent but also be very expensive. I would rather have an outfield of Ruf, Revere and Mayberry/Brown than Ruf, Revere and most of the high-priced and under-achieving players who fortunately signed elsewhere. If Mayberry and Brown play to potential, the Phils could have one of the best outfields in baseball, both offensively and defensively. Having said this, I must add that any time Amaro publicly announces the Phils are probably done shopping or are definitely out on a certain player, that's when a surprise deal is usually in the works. The Phils stil have the ability to add a lot of power to the outfield very inexpensively by acquiring either Dayon Viciedo from the White Sox or Alfonso Soriano from the Cubs. They also have the ability to engage in a multi team trade that would bring either Stanton or Cespedes to Philly. So, beware of the idle Amaro claim that the Phils have stopped shopping. I'd like to see the Phils acquire any of these guys to add power to the outfield, but I would rather see Mayberry and Brown platooning in right field than one of the many overpaid underachievers who the Phils could have acquired.— onthebucks
- If they are done... then they really ARE done as far a winning the division!— Bermar
- Why trade for guys who are unproven or stink when you've already got guys who are unproven or who stink?
All right, never mind!— dasher - Certainly not an offseason to get excited about. If the pitching holds up they should win half their games, perhaps a few more.— dblankj
- I'm okay starting off with what we have. If they can't stay close enough to be making moves in July then no move now is going to help. The way I looked at the FA outfield market, anyone other than Hamilton probably wasn't going to result in more than 3-4 more wins before the break.
A few other things: Ruiz may not hit like last year but let's not forget his hitting has gotten better over the last few years -- not just last year. He's also been a strong second half hitter. Since 2010 he's hit over .300 with decent power numbers in every second half. So he may drop off but I doubt he's going to disappear. Plus he gets that 25 game "rest" to save him for when we need him (joking). Ruf is a guy who could really make a difference -- or not. If we sign another outfielder he could end up in AAA since he's the only outfielder other than Revere with options. Either that or Galvis goes down unless an OF starts the season on the DL. So the current plan will get Ruf time early which (my opinion) is better than waiting to see if he can carry what he showed last year into 2013.
I would still consider another bullpen arm. That's one way to compensate for questionable outfield offense and you wouldn't have to break the bank.— s - The moves Rube will be making in July will resemble the last couple: he will trade guys making some $$$ for "useless garbage" (like Nate Shierholz and Lindblom) and 2nd-tier prospects (like Tommy Joseph). The big-money guys (Howard, Utley, Rollins, Pap, Halladay) will stay put because no team will want them because they are over-paid, injured, or both. The decision at this year's deadline will be about whether they can trade Hamels and still get season-ticketholders to shell out $$$ for 2014 tickets. — Copper34
- Schierholtz was non-tendered and is with the Cubs. Lindblom was traded for Young.
One of Joseph or Valle will almost surely be traded, and they should be. They both can't be the next starting catcher. Utley's contract is over after 2013. If he's playing well and the Phillies are out of it in July expect them to try and move Chase to try and get something for him. Same with Halladay. Problem is, if both guys are playing well the Phillies are the type of team to extend them. I wouldn't. I'd go into 2014 with those two off the books and those two spots freed up for change. But if both are playing that well that's a good problem to have.— s - Not a surprise....his task was to save money....he already destroyed the club with no bullpen and a lousey outfield.....and he improved neither....Reuben must go....getting beat by the Nationals is an embarrasment.....thank you Reuben....no just leave quietly...— nuggett
- I think the Phillies are being practical and accepting reality. The reality is they aren't very good, and they don't have the means of getting to a competitive point. Their farm system is in shambles because they traded away young talent for big names who could no longer perform. And they have some killer contracts. The reality is they can do nothing until they finish Howard's contract. They they can re-build. That's only 10 years to get to the top - if they make the right moves.— 4thand10
- We'd all better hope Ruf is the real deal. Because if he is, the Phillies will have two-thirds of an outfield, with Revere in center. Brown, Mayberry, Nix? All part-time players at best.— Dave Clemens
- Nice Moves Amaro. Now if those two primadonnas Lee and Halladay can just do their jobs unlike last year, then the Phils certainly will return to the playoffs. The additions of Young and Revere will help with the playoff hitting problems we've had in years past.— 420Phillie
- These posters like "420Phillie" must be Phillies PR people, right? I mean the nonsense they type is laughable. If they are PR-types, they ought to be fired. They suck almost as much as Rube-the-Boob. The least they could do is point out that nobody traded for Halladay has made it in the bigs, that it was Gillick that traded Gio for Freddy, and that Wilson Valdez hasn't won one game on the mound since he left the Phillies ... — Copper34
- how bouts you get a life and stop stalking everyone's comments. in what world are you considered an expert at anything ? — 420Phillie
- How bouts you get some baseball knowledge and report back to us. Start with Ben Revere's "playoff hitting." You state that he will help the Phils in that category, right? How many career playoff hits does he have? What's his career playoff batting average? Playoff slugging percentage? In what world do morons like you comment on "nice moves" by Amaro? You must be getting paid - and I hope it's not much ... — Copper34
- Given availability at this time of corner OF's (which is zippo), RAJ is doing the best thing. Not paying for members of the over the hill gang (like Wells and Soriano) or raiding the farm of whats left (except maybe for J Upton) makes one believe RAJ has a bit of common sense. We all know the team has to get younger so letting some kids take their turn is refreshing. I do agree with some of the posters that Ruf might indeed be a "Bull" Luzinski type but that pressure to do so doesn't hurt him. Lastly, I hope Cholly plays Dom Brown every day with no more than a full day off maybe once every few weeks against super tough lefty's although if he's going to be the everyday super star predicted, he'll have to take his lumps and learn how to adjust this year. If he would just shorten his "loopy" swing, I think it would help. He already has a good plate discipline.— streetrat
- Ummm - the predictions re: "Brownie" now have him as a bust - not a super star ... After all, he is an outfielder who can't field. He doesn't hit for average. He doesn't hit for power. He is one of those "five tool" guys they talk about in Moneyball (which Smug Ruben doesn't know anything about). Dom Brown -- the one prospect that RAJ absolutely refused to part with ... So sad. That said -- I am still hoping Dom can turn it around ... and that Ruf is more Luzinski than Len Matuzek ... and that Ben Revere can generate some runs (in the lead-off spot, Charlie!!!) ... and that Adams' arm is healed ... and that Pap wasn't as bad as he looked in big games last season ... and that Utley's knees are healed ... and that Howard has learned to hit lefties, hit breaking balls, and field his position ... and that Michael Young still has something in the tank ... Go Phils!! But, please fire Amaro already!!! — Copper34
- Finally agree with Ruben on something. But nothing wrong with an outfield of Ruf, Revere and Brownie every day. Don't platoon. Ruf led all of professional baseball with 52 homers last year. Let him protect Howard and its time to see if Brownie has it or not in right. Just have a good defensive outfielder ready for left when Adams sets up in the eight and Pap closes in the ninth.— Dull
- Another off season feeding at the bottom of the dumpster. What happened to that corner outfielder you were supposedly trying to sign, Amaro? Outsmarted again? So, you're going to war with Nix, Brown, and Mayberry? That's what you consider competitive? Retreads again? Amaro, you are a boy playing a man's game. Once again, just like your playing career, you've come up short as a GM. You suck.— ghost of callison
- I'll second every single thing written here by @ghost. Rubens A. Moron, Jr.s is a boy playing a man's game indeed.
20 out by September 1st, if not more.— advantasux - oh yeah, have another drink Rube, its all good. just dont fire Charlie because Young or whoever bats fifth didnt protect Howard. I hope Young does great, but its unreasonable to expect he will succeed to his past levels.
good luck Phils-work the count boys, pick your pitches, cant wait for this season to start.take care— jzjazzy - Not a fan of Ruben Amaro at all and no fan ever likes hearing "we're done" when there are plenty of holes left. That being said, I think this is the best course of action. What's out there is retread junk and none of those players are difference makers. Accept the fact that right now this team is in that middling position where it's not as talented as the top tier teams and will need a lot of breaks to get a wild card shot. Save that $7 million, wait until July when half the salaries for the year have been paid and then you'll have more wiggle room maybe to swing a deal for a bat if the team is somewhat in contention. If the team is not in contention and all the wheels have finally fallen off (Utley not being able to play and halladay not bouncing back) then you can just throw away the season, take Utley and Halladays money off the books and try again next offseason. It's like the Eagles this year. Sometimes you just have to throw away an entire year and start over. It's amazing how close we are to a Phillies squad that may only have Cole Hamels left over from the 2008 team.— Sewellmatt
- So they depend on pitching ...again. And if one gets hurt, they are done, again. This is a last place team unless the entire lineup hits like Carlos did last season.— Koons
- And, of course, Carlos won't ever hit like Carlos hit last year ... One or two great starters is not going to carry the day for this squad. They are in trouble. Hoping and wishing is all we have, unfortunately. @fanup -- thanks to Rube-the-Boob, they have no choice but to rely on Utley and Howard. He has saddled them with so many bad deals and traded away so many prospects that there is nothing left to do. Next year, they will fire Manuel and give us Sandberg as the "hope." I'm still thinking about last off-season, when Smug Ruben was promising "small-ball." Pathetic excuse for a GM. — Copper34
- We probably should not even show up for Spring Training--all is lost the sky is falling and everyone but Copper34 is a moron.
Neither I nor you "oh genius one" can predict with any certainty how the season will play out.
Washington will have to prove that they can catch "lightining in a bottle again"--in my experience it is not so easy to repeat. Let's see if Harper's hat still fits now that he has a biography. Can Gonzalez pitch like an ace again, etc.
Let's see how the Braves do without Jones and McCain for the first half of the season.
The Mets and the Marlins are a mess.
The Phillies have an aging core--but the bulk of their core (Utley, Howard, Rollins and Ruiz) are in their early (not late 30's). There are question marks--as there are with all teams--but this team, with most of the core intact for the second half of last season had a very good record.
My gosh--let's play the games and see what happens.— Smoothellc - I hope they are not done making moves. This lineup has a big time need for power hitters. They can no longer rely on Utley (knees) and Howard (the strikeout king).— fanup
- Lucky the Marlins had that fire sale or it could be a last place finish for our "Phightins". The Tonner thinks Rube and Howie are having a contest to see who can get fired first. An outfield that includes Mayberry (not again), Brown (not again), Nix (who?) Ruf (you'd better be the second coming of Ryan Howard kid) and Revere (younger Juan Pierre) is the outfield of a .500 team if the pitching and infield hold up. If not, could be looking at a 100 loss team. You heard it from the Tonner first.— hunglikeaton
- This means Ruben is gettng ready to make a big move! Justin Upton, or perhaps a smaller move in Delmon Young?— carlosbeltran
- Oh ye of little faith! When Ruben Amaro spends money on second rate players (one year ago), you attack, when he doesn't (which I applaud him for here), you attack.— dwp66
- I am not displeased based on what is out there. Even those top of the menu free agents all came with warts. Hamilton? One slip away from total doom. Upton? Do we really need another Shane Victorino swinging for the fences? Which leads us to Victorino...Mr pop-up himself. He was an asset when he was a tad faster and had Utley and Howard bashing balls behind him in the order. But at $13,000,000? Pu-lease! And Bourne? He is no better than Ben Revere and 4 years older and ready to cross that invisible line between superspeed and above average speed which takes his play down to less than ordinary and he is asking Upton money. You see how fast others are rushing to pick him up. And Soriano and Wells? Gimme a break. They were over the hill two hills ago and they are both liabilities in the clubhouse. The Phillies have nothing to lose by giving what they have first dibs. I just have a very good feeling about Ruf. I think he is a young Bull Luzinski. That would mean 3 others for one opening and among them, they should hit enough to make them a decent #7 or #8 hitter. I think the top of the order should be Revere and Young with Rollins dropping to 6th where his power and RBI production will be his forte rather than his not getting on base that much as a leadoff hitter. For #5 and #7 you have Ruf and Chooch.— gotedge
- good move not to spend money on a big name. Hairston is only good against the Phillies and Soriano is a overpaid headache. Let's see what we got in spring training. Besides, there is nothing left in the cupboards.— palmyra21
- So many if's this season. Need a lot to go right to make the playoffs. They should be able to with their pitching staff though. Maybe just barely which is concerning.— frankieb42
- This is not what Doc and Lee were envisioning when they chose Philly ... Question marks abound!! Hamilton and/or Swisher would have been nice - but the GM already mortgaged the farm for Pence and Oswalt ... It's a shame ... If the stars align and the Phillies are in the hunt come trade deadline, Rube-the-Boob can try to trade Biddle and any other prospects for a guy he could have signed this off-season (or last). I'm sure that's his "plan."— Copper34
- Lest we forget the Phillies corner outfield positions in '93 were both double platoons as well, with Milt Thompson, Jim Eisenreich, Wes Chamberlain, and Pete Incaviglia, a group that impressed no one prior to that season, yet paid off in spades.— Dante1138
- Good point, Dante re: successful platooning. But, do these Phillies remind anyone of the '93 squad? Is the "chemistry" there? Who are the leaders? Who is this team's Dutch Daulton? That '93 team worked the opposing pitcher. They took pitches, took walks, and generally kept the pressure on. With JStroll leading off, that team would not have been as successful. And, what happened with those platoons in '94, '95, '96, etc?? — Copper34
- Good choice Ruben! Everything out there is old and quite frankly not that good. None have played for championship teams. Who knows maybe some of these young players prout their wings this year and produce on a consistent basis. July will give us a better idea of the real needs of this team to compete, if competing is even possible at that point.— miket47
- Should finish ahead of the Marlins.— 4thand10
- Prof: wise words and smart considering most on here have complained that Amaro ruined the team by trading prospects and then bashing him for giving other prospects a chance/trading for a younger player. If it means another .500 year until they can get some strong play from the young guys, then so be it. Another over 30 something 5 year signing would have been a mistake, especially given the amount of money OF players were being given this offseason.— frstrm
- This comment has been deleted.— rombola67
- I was a huge fan of Rube up until the past 2 offseasons which have just been horrifying. I cant believe this team finished 18 games behind Washington and they try to sell us Revere, Lannan etc etc.
With the new TV deal coming up and the 3500% rise in team equity it just blows me away that we have an outfield with 15 career HRs and KK and Lannan in the 4-5 holes.
If Halladay is the same 2012 Halladay this season is over before July 4th.— argonne - And some people will still say this team has a shot at the World Series. Third place AT BEST in the division.— dundermifflin
- Always gotta take what RAJ says with a grain of salt. But if this is it, this team is headed for a sub-.500 season. The best man in this outfield after Revere isn't a very good MLB player.— PhillySubsMac
There simply isnt anything on the market right now worth cleaning the minor league cupboards for. Smart move by Amaro not to overpay for proven mediocrity...save money, give the young kids a chance to play and make a deal at the trade deadline if it makes sense.
Sometimes, patience it a virtue.— Professor1982- too right professor. too right!
on this topic you are spot on!— the lopez! - Oh yes, Professor ... you are dead right ... spot on ... Patience, everyone!! This team will, about 10-15 years from now, recover from the stewardship of Rube-the-Boob ... Yeah - just make a deal at the deadline ... like you did for Oswalt ... like you did for Pence ...
The minor-league cupboard is already bare. RAJ made sure of it.
Sometimes, fans are morons.— Copper34 - at this point, copper, the phillies do not have the minor league depth to be making trades and there is nothing great out there in free agency.
patience is needed for a spending opportunity that comes up.— the lopez! - yes because all of the minor leaguers they have given up are tearing it up in the majors.
Oh wait, none of them have amounted to anything.
you're right. they are morons.— seaonasdad - Prospects are prospects - and they are gone. Without them, you can't trade for good/great players at the deadline or in the off-season. When you have no prospects, you end up with the worst OF in baseball, KK and Lannan as your 4th and 5th starters. Oh wait - you are a moron ... Why am I responding?!? — Copper34
- The worst OF in baseball?? Really?
Our 5 OF's have these 2013 Projections (by Bill James and ZIPS)
lf) Ruf - 582 PA / 62 R / 17 HR / 73 RBI / 1 SB / .255
CF) Revere - 551 PA / 64 R / 2 HR / 35 RBI / 45 SB / .288
RF) Brown - 592 PA / 80 R / 17 HR / 77 RBI / 12 SB / .274
OF) Mayberry - 306 PA / 37 R / 11 HR / 37 RBI / 3 SB / .257
OF) Nix - 188 PA / 20 R / 7 HR / 24 RBI / 1 SB / .241
I can think of a LOT worse teams' OF's than that..
Not to mention that the other 5 starters in the INF are better than most MLB teams and our top 3 startes can beat anyone else's top 3 says enough.
This is a well balanced team that we can put a heavy left-handed lineup in or a heavy right-handed lineup in, each player facing their strengths.
Lannan was the opening day starter for the Nats 2 years in a row before last year, and if you take away his stats vs the Phillies, his ERA is 3.80 - I'll take that everyday as a 5th starter. Phillies are healthy, they will easily average over 4 runs a game - our pitchers should all have ERA's under 4, with the top 3 capable of having ERA's under 3.00
Look for Petitbone and Biddle to be our 4/5 starters in 2014 - with Ashe as our 3B and Joseph/Valle as our catchers. If Cano ever reaches FA - the Phillies will be "ALL-IN" on him too.
"As is" - we are wildcard worthy.
A trade in July can bolster that.
This is a team that on 102 games in 2011.
We have not fallen to the depths that so many of you think we have. Look at the Mets, Marlins, Cubs, Pirates, Rockies, Padres and tell me who has the better OF - and the better TEAM... Worse in MLB? hardly...— Donnie B - I would have been happy if they could have made a major upgrade, but I'm glad their relying on their young players that need time to develop instead of making a marginal upgrade. This team needs to play young guys with question marks in the hopes that one of them develops into something.— OutofTownPhillyFan
- Hard to beleive Harry. An outfield of 3 never will be's (Nix, Brown & Mayberry) with one might be someday(Ruf). Wowsers, when's the parade?— jimmymack
- Nix - Brown and Mayberry??? Ummm.. you are surely a true fan that knows our roster.
RUF in LEFT
REVERE in CENTER
BROWN in RIGHT
Mayberry and Nix are the secondary platoon players.
What a NOOB!!
RUF will have more HR and RBI than any player on the free agent market NOT named Hamilton.
Brown will have better overall numbers than Cody Ross.
Ross projects for 63 R / 19 HR / 69 RBI / 3 SB / .254
Brown Projects for 80 R / 17 HR / 73 RBI / 12 SB / .274R
Revere will be a golden glove CF with 45-50 SB and not less than a .285 average.
Ruf/Nix platoon projects to 82 R / 24 HR / 97 RBI / 2 SB
Brown/Mayberry projects to 117 R / 28 HR / 114 RBI / 15 SB
Not to shabby in my opinion.
Will the Nats Corners do that?
Will the Braves? Giants? Cardinals? Reds? - Dodgers = Yes
Well - those 6 teams will compete with our Phillies for the 5 playoff spots.— Donnie B - Swarms of blue seats by June. Nobody watching on TV, everybody will be at the beach and pools. It will be like the late 90's all over again.
I thought the idea of trading Pence,Vic,Blanton last year was to free up payroll so the team and extremely loyal fanbase could be reinvigorated with some new talent?
Huh?
Wheres the new talent?
— argonne - Really. We're stuck with the same outfield that had the 2nd best record in the NL after Victorino and Pence were traded.
How awful.— smfree31 - That outfield had the 2nd best record? Really?? It was an OF of Revere, Brown and Ruf (with Mayberry and Nix as platoon guys/backups) that made the Phillies 2nd best for two months after they were already out of playoff contention? You are not only a moron - you are a delusional moron. On paper, this OF is the worst in baseball. And, if you believe they got better simply by subtracting Pence, then what must you think of RAJ for trading all those top prospects to get that free-swingin' country bumpkin? — Copper34
- It is hard to believe. You left out the slap-hitter that RAJ just acquired (for one of our top pitching prospects and our #4 starter - a young guy with great stuff). Can't imagine this off-season being worse.
@dwp - you hit the nail on the head. If Rube isn't spending on second-rate players, he isn't spending at all. The reason he had to trade for Michael Young this off-season is because he didn't pursue Beltre or Aramis Ramirez in the last couple off-seasons. No one forced him to sign Wigginton Nix, Thome, Martinez, Quals, D. Willis, and countless other stiffs. Rube-the-Boob chose those guys! Maybe its just a coincidence that all of his personnel decisions are bad ones ...— Copper34 - What is so hard to comprehend here? I've made known my position on Rube, a mere "yes-man", and Gomer the manager. But what I want to make crystalline clear, is that if you are looking for the enemy of the fans, it isn't clueless Rube, just a man looking to protect a lifestyle and a job, but the "ownership GROUP", as in anonymous and wants to stay that way, who want to extract every penny at the Park, without reaching into their inflated pockets for lint. Proof was the salary dump of Pence and Victorino, to avoid the luxury tax, last year. Proof was when they could have retained Lee and HAD Halladay, but waited a year to pull that trigger, a lost year where pitching made the difference.
This closed books group has been historically CHEAP, will always be that way, until they stop earning megabucks. But anyone who thinks that a "protest" of empty blue seats will work, doesn't know baseball economics, and hasn't read the new MLB megabucks extravaganza, otherwise known as television rights. Once this group fed on Yankee revenue sharing, now it will be MLB TV rights.
Rube is a "front". Direct your ire to the men and woman behind the curtain. - Yay :\— Njtod10