The Marlins have made the Phillies better
As the Miami Marlins unveiled their gauche new ballpark last winter, proud team president David Samson oddly pointed out that the outside portion of the place did not have any right angles.
The Marlins have made the Phillies better
Bob Brookover, Inquirer Baseball Columnist
As the Miami Marlins unveiled their gauche new ballpark last winter, proud team president David Samson oddly pointed out that the outside portion of the place did not have any right angles.
"That's the way (owner) Jeffrey Loria wanted it," Samson said.
A short time later the Marlins learned that they had not made any of the right moves in an effort to revamp the moribund franchise.
That's what led to the firing of manager Ozzie Guillen after one season as well as the latest Marlins' roster purge Tuesday night. Among others, the Marlins traded shortstop Jose Reyes and star pitchers Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle to the Toronto Blue Jays.
They were moves that mystified Miami's remaining veterans and assured that the Marlins will stink again in 2013.
“Alright, I’m pissed off!!! Plain & Simple,” outfielder Giancarlo Stanton tweeted.
All of this should come as great news to the Phillies.
Without making any major moves this offseason, the Phillies' chances of returning to the postseason in 2013 should have already improved considerably.
As Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. continues to ponder ways to upgrade his roster, he already has a team that should be able to put at least five more games in the win column.
The Phillies went 10-8 against the Marlins in 2012 and 8-10 against the Mets. Their record against the N.L. East was 33-39. Given how bad the Marlins are going to be next season and how terrible the Phillies played against the Mets, they should pick up at least five games in the standings by consistently beating those two teams.
It's true that the rest of the division is also going to have the opportunity to beat up on the wretched Marlins, but the two wild-card system put in place last year gives an advantage to the teams that have the league's worst team in their division.
At this point, the three best teams in the N.L. East are the Phillies, Washington and Atlanta and that does not figure to change regardless of what the Mets do this offseason. It's conceivable the Marlins could go 12-42 against the Phillies, Nats and Braves, giving them all an advantage over the other National League teams.
That's especially true because Houston, the worst team in baseball in 2012, has moved from the National League Central to the American League West.
The Astros, of course, provide a cautionary tale for the Phillies about any given day. On the other hand, the fact that St. Louis was 11-4 against Houston last season and 10-5 the year before provides proof that having a terrible team in your division when the schedule is unbalanced is a distinct advantage.
Take the Astros out of the N.L. Central and it's entirely possible the Cardinals don't even make the playoffs the last two seasons.
The point is, the Marlins have helped the Phillies before the Phillies have even helped themselves.
Comments (68)
Yes! This is excellent news. Now the Phillies won't be alone in the basement all season. Unfortunately they still have Rollins, Howard, Pumpkin head and Cliff Lee.— nhlfightclub.com- One way the Marlins could have made the Phillies a better tam is if they traded us Giancarlo Stanton.— 1republican
- This story neglects to mention how badly the Phils have played against the woeful Astros the past several years. Their subtraction helps the Phils more than the Marlins tanking it. It's not like the Mets and Marlins were any good when the Phils broke even against them last year, they tend to play down to their competition.— Dante1138
- How about a block buster deal for us with the mets? or marlins?
they both got what we need right handed power hitters.
I would cut of my right --- for stanton and wright in our lineup.
I can dream can't i? How about just 1 of them.— wildgreenman - Now if only the rest of the league would do likewise, we'd be a walk-over winner.— jjthree
- Divison games are never as lopsided as this article will make it sound, the Marlins will be worse but will still field a AAA level team that can probably win 50-60 games. Not only that, it gives the Braves and Nats 5-6 more wins, which cancels out what the Phillies are doing. Which in turn makes me wonder why this was even written as a valid article. lol.— ryanrockzzz
- Phillies ned to improve on the field...not just hope the other teams stink worst than they do.— jim35
- The point is the Marlins just took a step back and we play them 18 times. We also do NOT play the Blue Jays and our AL opponents include the Red Sox, Twins and White Sox.— eman
- Division rivals now play 19 times. — pedro_gonzalez_1
- I have watched many Eagles season where the schedule looked tough preseason but it wound up being relatively easy, and vice versa, to place much stock in this article. Besides, the Phillies can win 5-6 more games, make the playoffs, and still be only a shade better than mediocre. We've been there, done that. That doesn't get you anything.— dblankj
- Everyone else in the division can also put about 5 more wins in the win column, so the Phillies road back to the playoffs didn't get any easier at all.— scootch
- RAJ . . . . you should burning up the phone minutes calling the fish and getting Giancarlo Stanton here. Trade whoever ya have to but get this 5 tool player wearing the red pinstripes now— mdg625553
- this is an awful article, wasted brainpower reading this— jamarder
- So.....all of the wishful thinkers who have watched this Phillies team WHO CAN'T HIT and destroyed 4 pitchers since 2010. You seem to think the Phillies just need a right handed hitter and they'll be fine? At the moment, their 'ONLY' viable starting pitcher at the moment is Cole Hamels. Lee and Halliday's best years are apparently left in the dust behind them. Kendrick is average at best. They have a 2nd baseman who can't play half a season, Pedro Cerano @ first base. Nobody on third. Their shortstop thinks his $h!+ don't stink and plays on JRoll's time. They have no center fielder and their bull pen is awful. This team requires a full fledged implosion. Just like the Eagles. Wake up people.— nhlfightclub.com
- If half of you would read the article, it (apparently not) clearly states that Braves and Nats make out too, but with 2 wild cards, it puts all 3 of us at an advantage over the west and central. Brown, Ruf, 2 young cheap BP guys for Stanton would be more than they got for the bunch they just traded. Do it,— cuyatm
- Who's buying this? Not me. In 2007 when the Marlins won a whopping 71 games the Phillies went 9-9 against them. And, as others have already noted, three other teams in the division get the same advantage.— s
- The point of the article is that this development helps the Nationals, Braves and Phillies in the wild card race. Each of the three will beat up on the Marlins and Mets which should theoretically cancel out each other in the division standings. However, the unbalanced schedule where the top three teams play the Marlins and Mets more than teams such as the Cardinals do will lead to more victories and thus a better chance at the wild card. He correctly points out that the Cardinals beat up on the L'Astros the last few years and that helped them make the playoffs over other teams that played a tougher schedule due to their division. A way around this would be to have a balanced schedule where everyone in the same divison plays the same schedule. Then have all three second place teams in each league make the playoffs and have two wild card series with the worst divisional winner being the fourth team.— sjuhawk416
- Do NOT get so damn smug! This HAS to be THE very best example - ever - of counting your eggs before they're hatched. I agree with jmarder - I'm mostly upset at myself for reading it!— dwp66
- Bring me Giancarlo Stanton. Lets offer Dom Brown or Darrin Ruf, add Sebastian Valle, add Tyler Cloyd, if needed add Johnathon Pettibone,, throw in the 4 million that Florida has to give to Toronto but get this done. Opportunities like this don't come along that often.— tony bell
- So we're now better than the Marlins. Yo-we already were. They're not the issue. We have our own. If the way we are going to get better now if for last place teams to get rid of their only good players, we are in trouble. Guess the author felt the need to suck up to Rube.— Ballgame
- What a stupid headline. Seriously. It doesn't make the Phillies better. It makes the division weaker.— EL Zorro
- Wouldn't it be something if the prospects the Marlins picked up produce and jolt them ahead of the aging Phillies managed by a bozo?— sonnybuoy01
- Yeah, Bob, everyone else plays the dead fish too. This could be the Phillies' new PR pitch: "at least we're not as clueless as the Marlins."— ijj
- This is what passes as good Phillies news these days?— dasher
- Wow. Have we really sunken to the point where we revel in OTHER teams "getting worse" as a way of making us better? How about this? The Phils stop underachieving and play like they are suppose to.— Dr Bonz
- This is pretty lame. No team sits around hoping opponents will make questionable personnel decisions. The Phillies have to improve, a lot, notably with at least one proven OF, an infielder who can hit a little, and a couple of solid relievers (well, as solid as relievers, a notoriously dicey bunch, can be).— Dave Clemens
- nhlfightclub, the Eagles are in much deeper than the Phillies. The Eagles will be very lucky to even make .500.— cloudkitt
- How are Lee's best years "in the dust"? Halladay was injured and we'll have to see if he's recovered, but Lee's numbers by season's end were not all that different from years past, he had no dip in velocity and his control was (mostly) still there, so except for W/L, which he doesn't have much control over, I don't believe we've come to his decline yet. I'd still take him over 90% of the SPs in the league.— Dante1138
- Pretty ridiculous article. The Marlins were the last place team. This in no way makes the Phillies better. The Mets are young and getting better. The Braves and Nats are young and already better than the Phils. The Phils are old and getting worse. 4th place next year.— Palestra Jon
- Phillies got better because the Marlins got worse? That's like telling Cher she had a hot daughter after Chaz's gender operation.— stop2think
- Giancarlo Stanton is NOT happy in Miami. Lets make him HAPPY in Philly. Trade Dom Brown AND Tyler Cloyd for Stanton. Make this happen RAJ. There is a window of opportunity to obtain a strong right handed power bat. Adding Ruf/Stanton to this line up opens up the door to sign another left handed bat for center field....I'm just saying...ya know?— drhoffman
- OMG, Brookover......obviously you weren't a math geek in school. What a terrible premise for an article. Yes, if it were just the Phillies and the marlins in the NL East, this firesale would greatly enhance our chances of making the playoffs. But alas.....the Braves and Nats are still way ahead of us and just made the same tad better as we have been. Net gain? Zero.....the only way the Phils make the playoffs next season is if the Braves and Nats team planes collide over open water.......Stanton will not be dealt and certainly not to a NL East team. Selig would almost certainly throw Loria out of baseball if that happened.— Mark1npt
- Since Reuben, of no bull pen, no outfielders, no third basemen, a 2nd basement who is in charge, a SS who is great but over paid, a 1st basement who is over paid and still cannot hit a curve ball, and who has shown himself to have the businesss sense of a toad (he pulled an andy ried and decieded he was so smart, he waited till the end so he could over pay Coles, and oh yes, remember, he refused to pay Lee so he could trade him away and then over pay him to come back....the only way the Phillies get better is for other teams to fold or do stupid trades....But here is an idea....Just fire Reuben for hin ineptness......Now that would be a step in the right direction...— nuggett
- The Marlins have, perhaps, the WORST owner in perfeshinil sports. The way Jeffrey Loria has run the Florida/Miami Marvins is precisely how he ran the Montreal Expos!
Of course, the Phillies SHOULD attempt to get Giancarlo Stanton, since he will be asking big $$$$$$$$$ the Marvins won't want to pay in a few years!— BEMiller - So the Marlins had a fire sale, and again, Rube was caught sleeping. Maybe instead of being secondarily benefitted by the Marlins losses, the Philles could have been directly benefitted if we could have gotten some of the talent being discharged.— Bobphxville
- I assume pumpkin head is Charlie Manuel because I have heard they do that a lot in his home state of WV...pump kin. Sorry for the bad joke. Phillies still need a quality outfielder like Hamilton to make a difference in the division.— Phillip Phan
- @Philip Phan, shame on you! Pump kin!
Charlie Manuel actually hails from Virginia, although he was born in a car in West Virginia. No, I'm not making that up.
"Pumpkinhead" must be a reference to Placido Polanco. That's quite a substantial cranium he carries around.— dasher - How about taken Stanton off their hands— PHILLY76
- Now all we need to do is ship Manuel and Dubee out of town with Reid and Marty. 4 of the most useless, clueless clowns whose teams carried them. Now that the players aren't performing, their true managerial skills show.. Or more accurately put, their LACK of skill. And trust me, giving Laviolette an extention was a major mistake too..— dedhed
- Well.... Since the front office for the Phils has left the roster filled with bums and people way past their prime with huge contracts it is nice that some one somewhere in MLB is doing something to help them suck less.— truthfirst
- Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.— sillybilly
- LOSERS!!! There, I said it. Fools, the Marlins just traded away a boatload of guys they overpaid in a series of idiotic move. Stanton is BY NO MEANS ONE OF THEM. OK? Stanton made $480,000 last year. He isn't arbitration-eligible until 2014 and he's under the Marlins' control until 2017. Sending Dom Brown solo to Florida -- a ridiculous concept -- would COST the Marlins money. Let's get a clue. The Marlins' salary dump is over.— eman
- Now the Phillies need to get better. Just don't do what the Eagles are doing.— mrjarn
- Stanton has awesome power.Opposing teams will be giving him a lot of intentional walks for years to come if he continues to develop. Somebody mentioned he is a five tool player. No way, not yet - still learning the defensive part of the game, strong thrower but with a scatter arm and questionable speed and makes a ton of mental errors. Missed over a month of the season because of injury and still struck out 143 times in just 123 games. Teams continue to pitch to him because he has all kinds of holes in his swing. You still would find a place for him on your team. Might be a disappointment to the Phillie fans, if he somehow came here, who may be expecting him to match his every at bat like the monster shots they see of him on Sports Center highlights.
The Phillies chances in the division would be greatly improved if Bourn does not return to Atlanta. Would not want the Phillies to get Bourn - way too many strikeouts for a leadoff hitter. Cannot hit high velocity fast balls.
Would not be surprised if Victorino and Blanton end up back here on one year deals - at much less than they were being paid this year. Victorino brings steady defense to a shaky outfield and Blanton lends insurance on a suspect Halladay. THE PRICE MAY BE RIGHT.
Washington still looks like the cream of the division but they may have had there run of good luck this year. Free agency could be a challenge for them.
Hoping Hamilton does not end up in Washington or Atlanta.— candidly - Didn't Atlanta and Washington just get better, too?— Tedyuscung
- Reading this artical is 2 minutes I will never get back in my life. It makes no logical sense at all. Wake me up when the Phils actually make worthwhile news this winter.— skipdog
- what an absurd article, nothing but more pandering in the direction of the all-powerful GM from his fawning local media. Any attempt possible to shine a better light on Amaro's Phils is what these guys are all about, and this one takes the cake. Let's see...the Marlins just gutted their team and this makes the Phils that much better? Only at the end of the article do the authors allow for the fact that the same thing makes everyone several games better.
But, boy oh boy, that Amaro sure is a genius, isn't he? The Phils offseason is off and running with the gutting of one of their competitors for 3rd place in the division. Now that's news!!!!!— advantasux - The Marlins are great at rebuilding and my money say they will earn the big prize long before the Phils will.— fafink
- Bob, this will be a fine entry for the most meaningless article catagory year end awards. Well done.— jimmymack
- Does the trade make the Braves and Nationals better also? Or just the Phils??? Great article.— pnolan
- Stop dreaming about Stanton. He's going nowhere. For starters, he's 23 years old, the best young slugger in the game and is in club control until 2017. Second, if they decide to trade him, it won't be to an NL teal, let alone the Phillies. If you look at the big trades they have made over the years, including the one they just made this week, all have been to the AL, the Becket/Lowell deal to Boston, Miguel Cabrera to Detroit, who at the time was 24 years old. Look at him now. Do you think they want to make the same mistake with Stanton at a similar age? And please, Dom Brown and Cloyd for Stanton? That won't get you Logan Morrison, maybe Yunel Escobar and a player to be named later.— EL Zorro
- By this logic the Florida governor just gained popularity. By the way, I don't see Loria remaining the Marlin's owner. I expect a coup d'etat at some point soon.— JayW
- The Phillies can most help themselves by signing Youklis to play 3B in 2013 while Cody Asche develops as the 3B of the future, and signing Josh Hamilton to play CF, then starting Ruf in LF, and landing a bonafide 8th inning RP. They are probably stuck with Rollins batting lead-off, but a lineup of Rollins, Utley, Hamilton, Howard, Youklis, Chooch, Ruf, Brown looks pretty good to me. Not much speed other than Rollins and Brown, but high contact, low strikeout guys in the 2-3 and 5-6 holes, power throughout, and the two young guys in the least pressurized slots in the lineup. Forget about the Marlins. They will stink and that will help the Braves and Nats as much as the Phils.— topwonk
- Is this what it's come to? Addition by other people's subtraction? Everyone else will benefit by these teams being weakened as well - ditto with Astros moving to AL.
It's sad when you grasp for good news like this. Oh look! My team doesn't su_k as bad as their's.... sheessh— IrishJoe - I predict the Marlins and Phillies will provide keen competition for the basement.— 4thand10
- Great! We've sunk to telling the Phillies how good they are by comparing them to cellar dwellers.— ricciaje
- Pumpkin head??!! That's a good one! Why was this article even written? That doesn't make the Phillies better. They still have to learn how to hit the ball, they still need 3 outfielders, they still need a third baseman, they still need a new manager, they still need a GM with some sense in his noggin, and so forth! How did the Fish trading those players make the Phillies better?— vietnamvet
- 1Republican, yes to us!
— hodigger - It has been reported that teams from NL Central and NL West have complained to the Commissioner's office about the trade...It didn't take them long to figure out it lessens the likelihood of their teams making the playoffs as a wildcard...which is what Brookover was trying to say..— stan the man too
- it improved every other team in the division too...what's the point??— mcnamarakr
- The point is that in theory, if the Marlins end up being a giant pushover, the NL East could have ALL the playoff wildcards due to an easier schedule than the NL Central and NL West.. — stan the man too
- The idea of deal making Phills better is foolish since Washington and Braves the teams Phills have to pass are also playing Miami. Also no guarantees about beating Marlins. Only thing that happened is Miami much weaker with future looking bleak. Back in spring I blogged Bell will loose his closer job and Miami will have to draw at least 35 million to justify payroll, Marlins drew 27 mill per game. I said I dont think it will justify paroll. Phillies fans have right to applaud themselves for filling up park every night.— Don w
- An awful Marlins team seems helpful to Phils' wildcard chances, but then the West gets to play the Rockies and the Central the Cubs. Looks like a wash.— Tedyuscung
- for pete sake, fire wade and amaro, that will improve the phils better thanany new players— eddiot
- jamarder, it's called wishful thinking! It's called getting ones mind of the wretched EAGLES and thinking spring.
The Blue Jays will be the team to watch out for in the AL east this coming season. Not the YANKS! Of course I'd rather see the O's make some moves but. . . THe Phils must improve their offense! Way too many Ks from the big hitters. WAAAY too many guys left on base in crucial situations! That is what needs to be addressed. In my humble opinion.— DonnaRae - Now all we need is for the planes carrying the Nats and Braves to go down.— towman
- The Phillies didn't improve their chances of making the postseason; every team ahead of them in their division "improved" the same amount as the Phils did. Totally idiotic article!— JBinPA
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About this blog
The Phillies Zone is the place for up-to-the-minute Phillies coverage from the Inquirer.
Matt Gelb
Inquirer Staff Writer
Bob Brookover
Inquirer Baseball Columnist
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