Trade of Hunter Pence raises questions about 2013
By all accounts, Tommy Joseph is a solid major league prospect. Whether he was solid enough to warrant the trade of Hunter Pence is debatable. What isn't debatable is that the Phillies are not better off for the 2013 season, at least not in terms of talent in right field.
Trade of Hunter Pence raises questions about 2013
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
By all accounts, Tommy Joseph is a solid major league prospect. Whether he was solid enough to warrant the trade of Hunter Pence is debatable. What isn't debatable is that the Phillies are not better off for the 2013 season, at least not in terms of talent in right field.
Joseph, the centerpiece of the trade that sent Hunter Pence and cash to the Giants this afternoon, would not appear to factor into the big league picture for next season. Carlos Ruiz will be back, leaving no room at catcher. Besides, Joseph just turned 21 years old. He has power potential, but in his first year at Double-A he has eight home runs with a .260/.313/.391 line in 335 plate appearances. Seth Rosin, a 23-year-old who is currently at Class A, does not project onto the major league roster in 2013, either. Which reduces this deal, from the vantage point of 2013, to Hunter Pence for Nate Schierholtz and some payroll flexibility. Schierholtz is a better defender with an excellent arm, but the Phillies lose about 30 points in on base percentage and plenty of home run power, not to mention the only right-handed power bat in their lineup.
Over the last two seasons, Schierholtz has posted a .271/.326/.429 line with 14 home runs in 558 plate appearances. By comparison, Jimmy Rollins hit .268/.338/.399 with 16 home runs in 631 plate appearances last season.
Pence, on the other hand, hit .289/.357/.486 with 28 home runs in 676 plate appearances during his year in Philadelphia. So in right field, the Phillies take a step back for 2013. Domonic Brown, who was called up today, is not a relevant consideration, since he could have moved into left field even if Pence had remained with the team.
The relevant factor is payroll flexibility. The Phillies likely would have had to pay Pence between $14 million and $15 million next season. Now, they can theoretically spend that money at one of their two obvious vacancies: center field and third base. The third base market is not pretty -- Kevin Youkilis and Mark Reynolds are the top two options available. Center field offers Michael Bourn, Melky Cabrera, and Shane Victorino.
But strictly in terms of talent, the Phillies do not figure to be as good in right field in 2013 as they would have been had they held onto Pence.
this was a mistake. yes he would cost 14 mill.. but he is a good player. he was made out to be the problem, when amaro is the problem. we all saw the holes that this team had going into the yaer and its shortcomings. which is why we were all worried. and amaro addressed none of it. then he tells hamels he wont trade lee, then 2 days later is trying to trade him. they have a lot of work to do and not much talent at either 3rd base or OF this offseason.which is why they should have held onto a 28 yr old who hits 25 -30 HR and 90 RBIs a yr. Dom Brown is going to actually surprise some people i think
ok, lets break it down. Pence for a 4th outfielder with no power and who is a left handed hitter, a catching prospect in an organization which has both a stud catcher and a top catching prospect and a low class A pitcher who is being described as a "throw in" by CBS sports. That's awesome. RAJ, you continue to amaze me. Who is playing outfield and 3rd base next year. Please fire RAJ now. Please.— scootch- I think you should wait until 2013 to say that. Essentially they undid a trade that they shouldn't have made in the first place effectively giving up a prospect for a year of Pence.— jtj06
- That's exactly how you look at this. I waffled on the Pence trade last year but ultimately felt it was worth overpaying to take a shot at another WS. That didn't happen so I see no big deal in trading him away. A net loss but you'd expect that.
There's no way to judge any of these moves in the grand scheme of things until we see the final 2013 roster.
I still think 3B is not going to be easy to solve.— s - Move Chooch to 3B, live with a Kratz and Schneider platoon til this kid Joseph is ready, maybe next year, who knows ? Get Bourn, get a pen.— UnaBlogger
- Actually, david they're only less talented if they bring back the same OF next year, and with the cash they freed up today, they can create a new OF in the offseason and have money to do it. No way Pence is worth 15 mill. he would have won in arbitration.— drbob1
- Bourne and Boras= $102M @ 6 years.— Romus
- Second best hitter on the team this year. If we are to have prayer in 2013 we need someone (at least) as solid as Pence to back up Chase and Ryan in the lineup, and that person's name can't be Chooch. Shame to see him go. He had some fire - desperately lacking on the currently squad.— gho_matt
- JOSH HAMILTON!!!— fman727
- I think you will see more deals and free agent signings in the off season that will make the team better by opening day 2013. Why keep dead wood on the books and risk paying the luxury tax when you're in last place? Use the savings for off season deals.— sonnybuoy01
- I don't care what kind of numbers Pence has put up. I loved it when they got him last year. However, he was a huge disappointment!! He plays hard, but doesn't play winning baseball. It's like he never has any idea what is going on in the game. Like diving for a ball with no outs with a 1 run lead, no one on in the 9th... He plays clueless, losing baseball...— FetchDixon
- Hey Murph, which AA catcher is moving to AAA? Both Valle and Joseph are AA catchers right now. Any insight on that?— scootch
- Come on Murph are you nuts? They have the entire pitching staff, less Blanton for next year. They are stuck with Rollins, Utley, and Howard but to say those three have no game is crazy. Ruben has added to the back end of the staff and they can find out what they have. We now have a catching prospect, more young arms in the system, and a bench outfielder. The Phil's have Chooch. We just need to sigh a top third baseman with pop and Michael Bourne for centerfield, he adds a good obp, and killer speedy! This stance you're making is not very well thought out.— Rumrunner11
- Phils don't have the $$ to sign Bourne. If they had 15 mil for an outfielder, they'd have kept Pence. — scootch
- The much huger (or bigger if you like) problem is the lack of talent the Phils are paying 125 million for...Rollins, Howard and Utley hardly form a feared core you would expect to get for around 50 million. That makes the shortages at 3B, RF, LF and CF even more glaring. The remaining 75 million is tied up in 4 pitchers who combined aren't worth close to that. Personally I can't imagine a good GM couldn't do better in free agency than Pence for close to 15 million, but we'll see what Bobo does. Amazingly he traded 2 OFs and got back 3 pitchers, a back up OF, and a catching prospect...Bobo does love his pitching.— lazyboy
