Trade of Hunter Pence raises questions about 2013
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Trade of Hunter Pence raises questions about 2013
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
By all accounts, Tommy Joseph is a solid major league prospect. Whether he was solid enough to warrant the trade of Hunter Pence is debatable. What isn't debatable is that the Phillies are not better off for the 2013 season, at least not in terms of talent in right field.
Joseph, the centerpiece of the trade that sent Hunter Pence and cash to the Giants this afternoon, would not appear to factor into the big league picture for next season. Carlos Ruiz will be back, leaving no room at catcher. Besides, Joseph just turned 21 years old. He has power potential, but in his first year at Double-A he has eight home runs with a .260/.313/.391 line in 335 plate appearances. Seth Rosin, a 23-year-old who is currently at Class A, does not project onto the major league roster in 2013, either. Which reduces this deal, from the vantage point of 2013, to Hunter Pence for Nate Schierholtz and some payroll flexibility. Schierholtz is a better defender with an excellent arm, but the Phillies lose about 30 points in on base percentage and plenty of home run power, not to mention the only right-handed power bat in their lineup.
Over the last two seasons, Schierholtz has posted a .271/.326/.429 line with 14 home runs in 558 plate appearances. By comparison, Jimmy Rollins hit .268/.338/.399 with 16 home runs in 631 plate appearances last season.
Pence, on the other hand, hit .289/.357/.486 with 28 home runs in 676 plate appearances during his year in Philadelphia. So in right field, the Phillies take a step back for 2013. Domonic Brown, who was called up today, is not a relevant consideration, since he could have moved into left field even if Pence had remained with the team.
The relevant factor is payroll flexibility. The Phillies likely would have had to pay Pence between $14 million and $15 million next season. Now, they can theoretically spend that money at one of their two obvious vacancies: center field and third base. The third base market is not pretty -- Kevin Youkilis and Mark Reynolds are the top two options available. Center field offers Michael Bourn, Melky Cabrera, and Shane Victorino.
But strictly in terms of talent, the Phillies do not figure to be as good in right field in 2013 as they would have been had they held onto Pence.
Saying it doesn't help the Phillies next year is being very short-sighted. They freed up money that can be used to fill multiple positions via free agency and that does help them for next year.— wildbill99- I think this is just the beginning of moves that will be made. I doubt very much we have 3 no name of's and no 3rd baseman in 2013. As much as it is sad to see them go it was clearly not working out and we saved a bundle of cash to make this team better. Something was missing this season. I also don't count out Charlie being gone in 2013— pattymac3
- The Pence trade could be a good one. Schierholtz is a classic late developer who was sort of the Domonic Brown of the Giants, but older, and no matter what he did, he always looked like an underachiever. He needed a change of scenery.
That said, having watched him quite a bit over the past three, four seasons, I think he might be about to blossom ala Werth or Ryan Ludwick. The big problem with Schierholtz is simply that he's not right handed and by next year they're going to have to get some kind of right handed power, somewhere.
Don't know much about Joseph, but the Giants have a lot of prospects and if they rate him as highly as initial reports claim, he must have something. Could be they're gonna try convert him into a 3rd baseman, especially as they have Valle at Reading already. But you're right, that's not gonna happen by 2013.
At least half the reason for this deal was clearly salary cap relief. Have to see who they sign in the off season.— aintnorep - Move to Chooch to third. No problem. No sweat for a catcher (even a former infielder) learning to play third base ("the hot corner") at the Major League level.
UnaBlogger=UnaMoron.— thewiseone - Wow. First time I have seen this columnist put it so bluntly. The Phillies just gave away players in a salary dump and there is nothing available in FA that suggests they can field a better team in 2013 then 2012. Catching prospects are always overrated at the plate bc of position. This kid is a good hitter...for a catcher! If Pence gets 15 mill presumably the Phillies need to spend more than 15 million to get a better player.— UncleStosh
- Matt Gelb is up in the middle of the night again. Less "talent" in right field? Come off it, MG, Hunter Pence has not set the world on fire, and was an absolute bust in the series against the Cardinals!
There's a long way between now and opening day, and I suspect some more moves!— BEMiller - From my understanding, catchers are a high priced commodity. If we are in the playoff hunt next year, we become buyers and having two catching prospects might land us the right fielder we need. We had Pence in 2012 and we are not going to the playoffs. It was a good roll of the dice.— bmcw
- I was thinking the exact same thing. While I wanted them to get other position players getting a good catcher can't hurt in terms of having trade chips. Joseph is ranked above Valle but they're pretty close. Some have suggested that Valle could also be moved to another position. I tend to think that one of the two gets traded somewhere along the way.
Remember, Chooch started out as as second baseman. I am not, however, sold on the Phillies being able to turn some magic and convert someone (anyone) to a third baseman before 2013. 3B is a problem they still have to solve.— s - Here's more good news on Joseph. It appears the Phils' own prospect, Valle, is a better bet to be a big league catcher.
"Joseph is an offensive catcher with arm strength whose receiving, while improved from his high school days, still needs work and could still lead to him moving off the position or ending up a backup. Joseph has above-average raw power right now with average bat speed but good rotation with his strong upper body; his plate discipline is adequate, and his performance this year partly reflects his youth relative to his competition. (He has a .705 OPS for Double-A Richmond and turned 21 a few weeks ago.) If his receiving continues to improve, he could end up a valuable everyday catcher because of his bat, but right now it's probably worse than even money that he can do so."— scootch - Hey Reuben! Was that Stanford or Samford?— Booper
- There is no way in the world you can evaulate how good we will be in RF next year. Its silly until you see during Hot Stove what the Phil's do with the money. Get under the luxury tax, add Bourn (12m) and Hamilton (18m) and Brown in RF is a very outfield. BUT RELAX FOR NOW!— Bleedsgreen
- Except for the fact there is a TON of OF FA's coming and Phillies will be major players to retool the OF in 2013. And MOST won't cost anywhere near $14m/year to obtain.— Ump Al
- I'm not sure about the "tons" part. There may be a lot of names out there, but upon further review, half will be too old and the other half too expensive. In other words, there may be quantity but not quality. I don't think there's a lot out there to "re-tool" the outfield. At least not in 2013. — scootch
- How about this-- This year Schierholtz has an .850 OPS vs. RHP and is great in the field and Mayberry has a .825 OPS vs. LHP and is solid in the field. A straight platoon of those guys beats Pence's 2012 OPS (.784) and seriously upgrades your defense all for a fraction of the cost of Pence.— jtj06
- Schierholz has a chip on his shoulder. I feel lighter already. That was the most expensive last place team ever.— road515
