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Wednesday, July 8, 2009

Just got back upstairs to the press box from an interesting hour, during which general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. and manager Charlie Manuel both addressed the media.

The dominant topic, of course, was the trade market, specifically Roy Halladay. Amaro does not address specific trade possibilities, so most of the questions were phrased in a general sort of way. Like, "Let's say there was a pitcher available, and let's say he was about 6-foot-6, threw the ball right-handed, and won the Cy Young in 2003. . ."

But Amaro and Manuel both shed some light on the organization's tack right now. The most interesting thing to come out of the news conferences was the fact that Kyle Drabek is apparently not going anywhere, even if Cy Young himself descends from the heavens as the result of God looking to shed a little payroll.

Amaro did not mention Drabek by name, but did say there are some players in the Phillies system whom he would not trade, regardless of circumstances. And Manuel said that he himself would not trade Drabek.

"There are some untouchables in our system," Amaro said. "We feel that we are building a pretty strong farm system. I think Marti's done a pretty nice job in that regard and our player development people have done a good job of developing, especially this year, it's gone really well, which puts us in a decent position (in the trade market). That said, we have to be prudent about what our future is about. It is important to win now, and we understand the importance of that. But that said, there are players that we would like to keep for our future and I would say that they are not untouchable as others."

Asked if there were players whom he would not trade under any circumstance, Amaro replied "There are."

Manuel was asked if there were any minor leaguers that he would not trade, even if it meant sacrificing some immediate gains on the big league club.

He said yes. Kyle Drabek, the 21-year-old righthander currently tearing up Double-A.

"It'd be tough for me to trade Drabek," Manuel said. "I like Drabek because he's strong in his legs and his hips and he's a drop and drive kind of pitcher. I'm not a pitching coach but I like his mechanics and I like where he comes from and he's a strong-bodied kid, like  Tom Seaver type or a Bartolo Colon, and he's got that kind of stuff. And he's young, and I think he has a big upside to him."

^

Amaro declined to discuss specifics about the Phillies' scouting of Pedro Martinez.

Here is what he did say:

"We did see Pedro. I really don't want to comment much about it, other than we are trying to do what we can to add to our club and if we feel at the end of the day that Pedro is going to help us, then we'll make a run at him."

And if they are considering Pedro, they are doing so as a starter. That's not big news, but Martinez did begin his career as an electric set-up man, so I figured it was worth asking.

Posted by David Murphy @ 4:58 PM  Permalink | 67 comments
67
Comments   
Posted 05:23 PM, 07/08/2009
LF
That's not even a picture of Drabek.....geez, get it together.
Posted 05:23 PM, 07/08/2009
djacobs5582
i don't see a deal for halladay getting done without drabek. you think the jays would go for knapp, carassco, brown and donald? that would seem to be the best we would offer, assuming that there is someone else amaro feels is untouchable (taylor?)
Posted 05:32 PM, 07/08/2009
Clearly Ambiguous
Dave - you're electric. Boogie woogie woogie.
Posted 05:50 PM, 07/08/2009
bacbank
Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson should be offered for Roy Halladay, but a trade would presumably need at least one more piece unless Toronto would accept John Mayberry & Kyle Kendrick. too. I'd rather move Victorino before Happ, Drabek, Knapp, Brown or Taylor. PS: This would never happen, but I'd move Carrasco, Mayberry & Rollins to Atlanta for Javier Vasquez, Yunel Esccobar and Matt Diaz. Still don't like the Jaramillo trade for Taschner (via Ronnie Paulino).
Posted 05:59 PM, 07/08/2009
76er
Love to keep Brown, but if you could keep Drabek, Taylor, I'd liking part with Knapp, Carassco, Brown and Donald.
Posted 06:01 PM, 07/08/2009
76er
Moving Victornio is interesting. Taylor could come up and Werth goes to center. If that is your Major League ready player, give the Jays Donald, Carassco, Brown and either Carpenter or Vance Worley.
Posted 06:01 PM, 07/08/2009
trungy
Drabek, Brown, Taylor, and Donald. That's the package that one speculator summed for Holliday. Might as well throw in Happ and Mayberry, because that's the farm, fellas.
Posted 06:06 PM, 07/08/2009
Maddy44
trading rollins is as bad if not worse than the Eagles not re-upping dawkins....there's no way in hell Rollins is going anywhere and one better; his potential replacement-Donald- will be included in any halladay deal;...Toronto is already on record as any deal involving halladay will probably include a short stop....how bout Taylor, Donald and Kendrick
Posted 06:07 PM, 07/08/2009
Will.i.Am
Donald , marson, Happ, Carrasco should be plenty to get Halladay. That will give them a SS that will fit in with toronto, and Happ, who is already pitching in the Majors. Lets make it happen : #1- Halladay, #2- Hamels, #3- Blanton, #4 Lopez, (until Myers is back), #5 Pedro Martinez, now that spells, REPEAT!
Posted 06:08 PM, 07/08/2009
z03mbm
moving victorino is stupid IMO.
Posted 06:13 PM, 07/08/2009
DavezMental
How about Roy Halladay and Scott Rolen for Jason Werth, Pedro Feliz Kyle Kendrick, Knapp, Brown, and Savery...
Posted 06:16 PM, 07/08/2009
Reddgie Noble
The question that needs to be asked is this; with the nucleus or our club getting older (most approaching 30, if not already 30 or older), is it worthwhile to possibly mortgage the future by trading unproven prospects in a trade in an attempt to build a dynasty right now by obtaining a proven, legitimate # 1 pitcher, maybe the #1 pitcher in all of the majors? Obviously, you can tell I think so.
Posted 06:17 PM, 07/08/2009
Mark1npt
Who says we have to give 4 or 5 players for this guy? When did you all become MLB GMs? Do any of you have a clue about negotiating? You must all be typical Philly Democrats, lining up to give away other people's assets. Gillick and Rube must be laughing uncontrollably at all your suggestions. What a joke!
Posted 06:19 PM, 07/08/2009
wearethechampions
man its ROY HALLADAY! who knows what's going to happen when rollins,howard,utley and hamels deals are up in the next 2,3,4 years, go for it now!
Posted 06:21 PM, 07/08/2009
Mark1npt
PS...I love Halladay, not in the Biblical sense, but he WAS a CY Young winner....6 years ago. That's a long time ago in pitcher years. He would definitely upgrade our staff, but his best years are probably behind him. You never mortgage the farm for past performance.
Posted 06:31 PM, 07/08/2009
Fingers
the phillies have a better chance of winning the powerball lottery than obtaining Halladay - he will remain in the AL
Posted 06:34 PM, 07/08/2009
scars73
trungy, not coming down on you, because it sounds like you heard that somehwere, but that would be INSANE!!!! If the Phils have to give up Drabek and Brown AND Taylor, then no way! I would give one of Brown and Taylor, and not even consider trading Drabek. Drabek is a POTENTIAL, notice I said POTENTIAL, Tim Lncecum. Untouchable! And can people stop making ridiculous offers of Mayberry, Donald, and Kendrick?
Posted 06:34 PM, 07/08/2009
jme42257
Past performance?!? This dude is 10-2 this year with a 2.78 ERA... good for 7th best ERA in the majors... no big deal
Posted 06:39 PM, 07/08/2009
TheBigT12345
Brown, Carpenter, Savery, Donald, and Happ for Halladay.. I like the post earlier that stated : Hamels, Halladay, Blanton, Lopez, and Martinez...... Halladay and Martinez would be great pick ups. Then we would still have Michael Taylor, Drabek, Carrasco and Knapp still in the system. Your giving up Brown but i think that Michael Taylor will be a much better major league player than Brown. Taylor is already putting up sick numbers is AA. I really hate to give up Happ but, if they feel that Carrasco/Knapp/Drabek are the future, then i guess you can afford to give up Happ.
Posted 06:40 PM, 07/08/2009
MFPhils
Mark are you new to this sport
Posted 06:41 PM, 07/08/2009
TheBigT12345
I forgot to mention that Jason Donald is a major trading piece. He will be a very good major league SS.
Posted 06:42 PM, 07/08/2009
kenny000001
go get halladay lets win now and that is a picture of drabek you moron
Posted 06:47 PM, 07/08/2009
philly13
If you are in the "WIN NOW" mentality, which I think the Phils are...you gotta make this deal...Blue Jays have said they want a SS (Donald), I would also include Brown, Savery, Mayberry, & Kendrick.
Posted 06:47 PM, 07/08/2009
cwodack
Would you rather date a Brazilian Victoria Secret Angel today or hold off and wait to see how the local Wawa turns out in three years?
Posted 06:51 PM, 07/08/2009
merlinknghts
move Victorino..again..so glad us fans don't run the FO..that just pure idiocy...
Posted 07:03 PM, 07/08/2009
PhillyTheKid
O M G! Trade Victorino? Great idea...He is probably the primary "emotion" guy on this team now and someone wants to trade one of our middle position guys; and then someone wants to give away Rollins, too? Hmmm...While we're at it, let's throw in Utley, Howard and Hamels... Actually, we don't NEED a starter - it would just be a huge coup if we could land one of the premier pitchers for a song. I suggest The Star Spangled Banner for Roy Halladay - any seconds? PK
Posted 07:24 PM, 07/08/2009
cwodack
Halladay is to Secretariat as Drabek is to the son of Spend A Buck
Posted 07:47 PM, 07/08/2009
The Big O
I'm sorry Mark1npt....what is Halladay's record and era again? Oh wait, its 10-2 and 2.79....obviously his best is behind him. Oh and that's in 2009, who in our farm system has shown they can do that against major league (I stress the MAJOR LEAGUE part) hitting??
Posted 07:58 PM, 07/08/2009
Stairs08
The more I look at it the more I don't see there being any way we get Halladay. Toronto is going to demand you take on salary meaning Rios or Wells with their ridiculous contracts. Like the Beckett/Lowell trade where Boston had to eat Lowell's money and they gave up Hanley Ramirez. I think the Phils have the prospects but not the payroll flexibility. Also, if I'm Toronto I'm gonna want Happ since he's already in the bigs and Taylor and Drabek. I just don't see this happening and I'm starting to think we'd end up on the short side of the deal.
Posted 08:04 PM, 07/08/2009
ben715
Mark1npt for Mayor
Posted 08:12 PM, 07/08/2009
The Big O
But stairs, Amaro has said multiple times that they have the payroll flexibility to make a big trade. They're having sell outs every other night at CBP....also the Geoff Jenkins, Adam Eaton, and if they decide to let him go Brett Myers coming off the books. Plus if I'm not mistaken Boston won a 2nd title with the Beckett/Lowell trade that involved Hanley.
Posted 08:23 PM, 07/08/2009
sledgehammer
LF, That certainly is Drabek. Don't believe me? Try checking the R-phils roster before you rip Murphy. BTW, I had great seats to see his AA debut against a very good Akron Aeros team (Cleveland Indians AA affiliate... 55 wins 30 losses... 6 game lead in Eastern League South over 2nd place Reading). He was a little juiced up and his second pitch was 99 mph. He settled into a steady 94 mph groove and threw eight very solid innings (greatly aided by a fantastic play by Michael Taylor who took the ball on one hop off the fence to nail the runner as he tried to make a double.) Threw a 3 hitter over 8 innings. Mostly fastballs, but he's got an excellent curve. This young man will be in Philly in less than 2 years. Not bad less than 2 yrs. after Tommy John Sx.
Posted 08:46 PM, 07/08/2009
lonestar2000
can't trade Victorino with expectation of playing Werth in center. "Jay" plays like he is stoned half the time while in right. No way he can handle center on a full time basis.
Posted 08:46 PM, 07/08/2009
yahmpy
In the immortal words of Jon Heyman, IF ROY HALLADAY IS NOT "UNTOUCHABLE", ARE YOU KIDDING ME ABOUT KYLE DRABEK?!? The guy couldn't beat out Rodrigo Lopez to come up and fill in, so give me a break Rube and get the deal done please.
Posted 09:12 PM, 07/08/2009
Flyguy12
Drabek and Taylor are my untouchables. I'll drive Happ, Hewet, Mayberry, Marson and Donald to the airport.
Posted 09:12 PM, 07/08/2009
st
Halladay for Mayberry and Donald...trust me, it is going to happen. They might have to throw in the Dominican kid that they just promoted to Reading, too and hopefully not, but maybe, JA HAPP. Halladay will be a Phillie though, remember the Gillick connection:)
Posted 09:14 PM, 07/08/2009
mjb
Past performance? Check out his stats this year.
Posted 09:24 PM, 07/08/2009
Nickawampus Leroy
Why would anyone care what Cholly Manuel thinks about pitchers? He's ruined more pitchers than any manager in the history of baseball.
Posted 09:37 PM, 07/08/2009
jmalloy
Best guess: if Drabek is untouchable, it will be something like Brown, Carrasco (or Happ), Donald & Marson. This is one of the best pitchers in baseball, and there will be competition for him. But I don't think the Phillies will let him pass without making a solid offer. A rotation of Hamels, Halladay, Blanton, Happ (assuming Carrasco is traded) & Jamie Moyer would be pretty good.
Posted 10:11 PM, 07/08/2009
nyphilliephan
drabek and taylor should be untouchable.....anyone else, move'em. i'd move werth before vic...
Posted 10:28 PM, 07/08/2009
SteveS11
Halladay is good but isn't worth giving away the future for...especially since he's only signed through 2010. Is it really worth giving away 4 or 5 of your top prospects for a year and a half of Halladay?
Posted 10:37 PM, 07/08/2009
Cheesedog
Everyone on the table besides Drabek, plus a Schmitter. That'll do it.
Posted 10:42 PM, 07/08/2009
kdubs
Dom Brown - Marson - Jason Donnels and carasco can get it done . I dont want it if Taylor or Drabek is involved
Posted 10:45 PM, 07/08/2009
kdubs
Drabeck will be better than hamels . Has better stuff and a tougher mentality
Posted 10:48 PM, 07/08/2009
ILL-UH-DEL
Mark1...yes he won the cy back in 03 but his era the last 2 yes is under 3 in the al. And he's on pace right now to have an even better year than the cy year. He's 10-2. 2.79. Think that would look good with utley Howard and Ibanez helping him with a few runs?
Posted 10:53 PM, 07/08/2009
flyer41
biblical sense? wdumean?
Posted 10:55 PM, 07/08/2009
mike l
If this were last year, I'd probably say go for it. But the Phillies won it all last year. I can't see giving up the farm for Halliday. All I hear on the radio is Hamels and Halliday. Then what? Happ would be part of the deal. So you'd have Moyer, who's shaky; Blanton, getting better after slow start,and the pitcher of the week out of Lehigh Valley. Meyers will probably not pitch for the Phils again, being a free agent coming off surgery and not worth the big bucks he'll be looking for. Drabek may be able to come up later this season. They could trade Werth nextg year with 1 year on contract,but not if Taylor is gone. Two words: Bill Giles. He sold off one of the best farm systems after taking over the team to sign free agents like Lance Parrish, John Wockenfus, John Denny. Except for the lightning in a bottle team of '93, the Phils sucked for almost 25 years trying to recover.
Posted 11:25 PM, 07/08/2009
Delaware Jim
Anyone who would get rid of Victorino understands neither the role of emotion on a top-notch club, nor the Phillies long history (after 1920) of having slow runners who couldn't steal second base if you gave them a half hour.
Posted 11:26 PM, 07/08/2009
Delaware Jim
Put an apostrophe after Phillies.
Posted 11:50 PM, 07/08/2009
joe smith
Dont do it Rube! You have 44,000 a night showing up at CBP with no end in sight , you have a great nucleus of major league players and a great nucleus of minor leaguers waiting in the wings. Let it play itself out. You will know when is is time to make a drastic move, now is not that time. Dont become the Mutts.
Posted 12:40 AM, 07/09/2009
MooseBreathMints
If you can get GREATNESS like a Steve Carlton for a Rick Wise you do so! (I understand the whole background to this trade.) If you can get greatness you have to give up something. Their current minor leaguers will not take you to the World Series this year. Drabek is a minor league pitcher. He has already gone through a major arm operation. He looks great! The PHillies have a long history of "promising pitchers." There were a lot of minor league pitchers the Phillies would never trade. People complained that we need to keep our home grown pitchers. Great pitchers like: Charles Hudson, Randy Lerch, Don Carman, Pat Combs, Marvin Freeman, Dickie Noles, Andy Ashby, Bruce Ruffin, Brad Brink, Tyler Green, Andy Carter, Mike Mimbs, Mike Grace, Matt Beech, Wayne Gomes, Carlton Loewer, Brandon Duckworth, Carlos Silva, Fabio Castro. By not trading these great minor leaguers we kept them and did not go after top notch pitcher. As you remember we never won a world series with these pitchers!
Posted 12:47 AM, 07/09/2009
RunningTheBases
The Phillies management have it right by keeping a few minor league prospects as untouchables. I think some of people posting possible trades should do some research on what type of prospects the Jays are looking for. Drabek, Happ and Brown should be kept off-limits. Marson should be replacing Coste sooner than fans currently think. Carrasco, Donald, Taylor and Savery or Knapp are a good start. The Jays can't become too fussy because they know he won't resign with them after the 2010 season. If they keep him until then, they'll receive two supplemental draft picks which will be "years" away from helping them win. The Jays are more interested in moving Halladay than they let on.
Posted 01:59 AM, 07/09/2009
steves3264
I live in Atlanta right now and the radio staion down here (790 The Zone) seems to think that the Phillies are the front runner for Halladay( take it for what it's worth...According to the Dj's they want a pitcher and shortstop...I think you package Donald and anyone else but Drabek...i.e Savery, Carrasco and throw in Kendrick just to get rid of him...
Posted 04:30 AM, 07/09/2009
graybeard
Stating that certain players are untouchable is an excellent negotiation technique for raising interest. Actually maintaining that certain players are untouchable "without hearing offers" is not too bright. You'll never know whether there may have been a better offer. Walter Johnson, not Cy Young, was the greatest pitcher of all time.
Posted 04:55 AM, 07/09/2009
HitsLikeAGurlBurrel
here we go again boys and girls, Rodrigo Lopez will be sent to the DL today... Now we're really in a bind. At least the All Star Break will save them for having to start Carpenter or Carrasco.... Yet. We need a f'real starter in here now. Forget the farm. Cant win a world series in the Minor Leagues.
Posted 05:36 AM, 07/09/2009
Philly Fan in Kuwait
Any Halladay trade would HAVE to include Rolen...
Posted 06:18 AM, 07/09/2009
psuwelsh
Do not make this deal if it means Drabek and or Happ. How about a package that includes Myers??
Posted 06:48 AM, 07/09/2009
DR Heller
Yes, Drabek is a Untouchable. Taylor, Knapp and Brown are too. If any of them "can" be had, Knapp is the only one. Everyone else, Carassco, Kendrick,Savery,Donald,Marson, the kithen sink, Can be had.
Posted 08:50 AM, 07/09/2009
mick314
I agree: Dave ez mental. But, he may be sane enough to sort out his Taylors. His Rolen to Philly idea sez it all.
Posted 09:50 AM, 07/09/2009
Your Majesty
This might be posturing to lower the price -- you can have Drabek only if you take less total value or fewer total pieces. It is a negotiation, after all.
Posted 10:00 AM, 07/09/2009
EL Zorro
Don't understand why Drabek is ahead of Taylor or even Brown in the untouchable list. The guy has electric stuff and is doing pretty well after the promotion to AA, but pitchers are more fragile than position players and he already had Tommy John surgery. Taylor has been more dominant so far and a good position player -in my book- has more value than a good starter, for the simple fact that a starter can help you only every fifth day.
Posted 10:41 AM, 07/09/2009
TheAnswer333
why do i keep hearing that we have no major league ready prospects like the brewers gave up in matt laporta last year? in what universe is matt laporta major league ready? he hit .190 for the indians in 42 at bats in may and has been in AAA since. i love how NAMES just get blown out of proportion....like matt laporta is the next babe ruth. kyle drabek and michael taylor are excelling in AA. how much closer to major league ready can they get? they are one step from the majors right now...all they have left to prove is whether they can handle a league of 31 year old castoffs (AAA)and future major league utility players. both drabek and taylor would be in the majors next year if they are in torontos system...
Posted 11:16 AM, 07/09/2009
Ron
I agree with mark1. You never mortgage the farm for past performance. But you don't pass on a good trade to keep a minor league pitcher either. The minute Halladay's name came up people get excited and probably for good reasons. But the phillies have to be careful here. Drabek and Donald for Halladay is a good trade. I'll take Halladay over any young pitcher out there. If Drabek is so good how come he ain't pitching in Philly? Donald is not going to replace Rollins for years. But Toronto has a problem. They now have a clubhouse split between the Halladay side and the front office. If they don't move soon and make a trade, what they expect in trade value will be going down. Halladay in Philly would be an immense pitching improvement. I don't see that with Drabek.
Posted 11:36 AM, 07/09/2009
fan_in_jerusalem
Rube is on the record saying he wants to add Major league talent, not get rid of it. In other words, neitehr Shane, worth, nor happ is going anywhere. Drabek and Donald for Halladay is a steal which is why it won't happen. However, as I've said so many times before, we need one corner outfielder for 2011 when Werth is a FA We can afford to trade either Taylor or Brown. Drabek eitehr will or won't be a great pitcher. He could also be mark Fydrich. If it takes him going north to land Halladay, tell the kid to pack. Donald and Marson are both expandable. We don't need a SS for a few years and we have Ruiz just starting his arbi years now with a kid in A ball projected to be better then Marson. In othe words, I offer Drabek, Taylor, Donald, Marson and if needed either bastardo or Brunlett (I don't consider him a major league player). IF they like it great, if not, our current roster gets to the playoffs and then we can, as Rube said, start to dance. Rotaion without Halladay next year is Hamels, Myers (1 year arbi) Happ, Blanton and drabek/Carlos/Carpenter/etc. One other point-WE DO NOT WANNT ROLEN, he sucks and Feliz is so much better
Posted 01:16 PM, 07/09/2009
KGKoons
mark: spot on. Who says that the Phils have to give up the entire farm for a guy who is a good pitcher but, but... is moving toward mid-30's and could get injured. There is no reason to throw Taylor, Happ, Drabek in to any deal. Donald, Brown, Knapp, Carrasco,Kendrick, are not untouchable. But, even a guy like Marberry, Coste, both, could sweeten that pot.
Posted 02:39 PM, 07/09/2009
Cameiros
A rotation of Hamels, Halladay, Happ, Blanton and Moyer? That should give the Phils a solid shot at repeating as World Champs, and would put them in the hunt for the next 3-4 years. Tough to pass up. I'm sure it would take Drabek to get the deal done. I haven't seen Drabek pitch but if he's in Tommy Hanson's league I'd have to pass. If not, then the trade should be considered. Its potential versus a proven ace; plus Drabek has already had arm surgery. Also, whats in the pipeline? Are there any 18-19 year old pitchers that look promising who might be able to step up in 3-4 years...?
Posted 03:00 AM, 07/17/2009
grimm39
All of you who are saying to get rid of Happ need your heads examined. He is our most consistent starter to date. His ERA is close to Halladay's and getting rid of him would just create a new hole to be filled in our rotation. I also do not think Pedro has a whole lot left to give.
About David Murphy
David Murphy joined the Daily News as its Phillies beat writer in February of 2008. Born in Upper Merion and raised in the Poconos, he attended college at La Salle University before taking jobs with the Myrtle Beach (S.C.) Sun-News and the St. Petersburg ( Fla. ) Times.

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