Identity change for the Phillies?
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Identity change for the Phillies?
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
A report in the Boston Globe today says the Phillies have made a formal offer to free-agent righthander Derek Lowe.
Meeting with reporters this afternoon, Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said that the team has had discussions with Lowe's agent, but declined to confirm or deny the Globe report.
Here's an interesting thought to mull over. . .
So much of the focus this offseason has centered on the situation in leftfield, and how the Phillies might possibly replace Pat Burrell. I don't get the impression that the Phillies are sold on bringing him back. All the signals - including not offering him arbitration - lead me to believe that they are going to spend the money they'll save from Burrell's $14 million salary elsewhere.
Obviously, the gut reaction is that the Phillies absolutely must find a way to replace Burrell's production. But what if the team is in for an identity change? At the beginning of last season, the Phillies were considered a team whose strength was its power. Burrell was a big part of that. If they were going to win, they were going to outscore people. But as the season progressed, pitching became more and more of a strength. Plain and simple, it is the reason they won a World Series.
Ruben Amaro Jr. has said all offseason pitching is his priority. And with the Lowe offer in mind, there exists an interesting possibility that the Phillies might decide to make pitching the backbone of this team. That might not make sense, so let me try to explain.
Sure, you'd like to replace Burrell. But are the Phillies really worse off - or, perhaps, even better - if they pour their resources allocated to Burrell into bolstering the rotation. Let's say the Phillies land Lowe. True, that might take away some money that might have been used to bring in someone like Raul Ibanez. But it would give them a rotation that looks pretty darn good on paper:
1. Cole Hamels
2. Brett Myers
3. Derek Lowe
4. Joe Blanton
5. Jamie Moyer/J.A. Happ/Kyle Kendrick/Carlos Carrasco/Andrew Carpenter
Combined with the bullpen pieces they have in place, the Phillies suddenly might not need to be a team that relies so heavily on the power production from players like Burrell. And with a staff like that in place, it might make sense - logical and economic - to go with a platoon of Dobbs/Jenkins/Stairs and another righthanded, one- or two-year type of bat like Rocco Baldelli.
Just some food for thought. . .
Comments (97)
I agree. I love Lowe for this ballpark. I've been saying for a couple years now we need low ball, control pitchers. If you got 30 hrs and 90 RBI out of Burrell each year what might you get out of a Dobbs/Baldelli platoon? 25 & 85? The real question is how much does it hurt Howards production with that platoon behind him? It may be time to consider Rollins in the 3/4/5 mix for the rest of his Phillie career. Is Victorino/Baldelli/Werth or maybe Feliz enough protection for Howard? Feliz was good enough for Bonds maybe he's the 5 hole hitter? Pitching & defense is the right mix for championships and I fully endorse the efforts to sign Lowe if in fact that rumor accurate.— Wheelermustgo- completely agree murph...im sure im not in the minority when i say that a triple is much more exciting than a homerun, and, just in my opinion, does more to rattle a pitcher's psyche than a homerun does...also, our offense is only really clicking when rollins and shane get on, so why not go for more speed and obp than just power and wait for someone to smack a ball out of the park to score— thelawschoolkid
- Lowe is a ground ball pitcher ideally suited for here but to outbid the Steinbrenners would be a first for this organization. Though they did do the Phils a favor by taking Abreu of their hands in salary dump that was the turning point in making this team what it has become today. It should be required that the beat writer for hometown Daily of the World Series winner be required to go to the Winter Meetings. Sorry to hear last night on DNL that you are not going!— Dull
- That would be a killer rotation. I'd like to see Moyer come back and take every other start off for the first couple months with Happ or whoever taking the other fifth day and working out of the pen as the mop-up guy to save Moyer for later in the year...not sure if there's precedent for that kind of thing.— B in DC
- Lowe will sign with Boston for more money. But hey, at least we "took a shot". PR move. Anyone remember Mike Lowell?— MTbelly
- and you might not need burrells hrs because lowe would save a bunch from going out. It won't be as exciting, but if that's whatever it takes to repeat or at least compete. By compete it I mean at least make it back to the series.— beezer77
- Lowe would also be perfect to mentor and mold Kyle Kendrick into the sinkerballer he and the organization hope he can be. I saw on MLBTradeRumors that the Phillies are one of two teams that made an offer to Lowe, the Yankees nor Red Sox were the other. Any idea on who the other team is?— mjriley26
- as we proved once again this season, and has been proven over and over again, pitching wins playoff games.— scuba
- as we proved once again this season, and has been proven over and over again, pitching wins playoff games.— scuba
- "Their power," David, not "there power."— rico brogna
- We offered Lowell more money and an extra year and he turned it down to sign with Red Sox. In that case the Phils really did try to get him— pdditty
- anyone remember Lowe complaining after game 1 of the NLCS how the Utley and/or Burrell HRs would not have been HRs elsewhere? Think he wants to come here?— gobirds556
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- "At the beginning of last season, the Phillies were considered a team whose strength was there power." "THERE" power? WTF Murph? You are a paid professional... get the right word in there... or is it their?— PhillyzkidSC
- I'd love to sign Lowe, and I came to terms with a left field platoon when they traded "speed for power", but I do not want to see Dobbs out there 2 or 3 times a week. I will take a Baldelli/Jenkins platoon, but Dobbs is invaluable off the bench. It is so hard to find a good pinch hitter in baseball that is an RBI man that hits in the clutch. Thats why Dobbs had a great year this year and a mediocre one the year before when he had to platoon at third.— mseeke
- i'd like to land him, even if we don't it's good to see the front office is making a philosophical change after seeing what good pitching can do in october.— wearethechampions
- Dave I saw you on DNL last night and you were visibly intoxicated.— Matt
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they won the WS with pitching and defense, so why not accentuate that?— potus- Comment removed.
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- lol, I read right over that "there" power!! two funny or is it to funny or too funny!?!?!ha— CROSSI
- Derek is probably thinking of the old cliche - "if you can't beat 'em, join em!". I love it.— JesseH
- I like Lowe and would love to have him on the team in 09. But, signing Lowe will send a first round draft pick to LA and by failing to offer arbitration to Burrell no pick will come back to the Phils. Signing 35 year old pitchers to 4/5 year contracts and giving up future 1st round picks for the privilege might help the Phils in 09/10 but that philosophy will not help the team over the long-term. Offering Burrell arbitration was a no brainer. If Burrell accepts arbitration you get him for one year and at almost any cost a one year deal for Burrell is a good deal for the team. If Burrell leaves you get a pick and a pick has value. Gillick didn't "trade" future 1st round picks for the right to pay full market value in long-term deals to aging veterans; instead he acquired picks by letting Rowand, Dellucci and Wagner walk in free agency. Does Amaro follow Wade's philosophy that the picks are of little or no value? Remember, Wade "traded" a first round pick to sign Jon Lieber and second round picks to sign Mike Jackson, Rheal Cormier and David Bell. What would Arbuckle have produced from those picks? As Wade's assistant GM did Amaro agree with those decisions? More importantly, will he make similar deals in the future?— iah
- It's amazing some people are still negitive about the Phils front office. What do they need to prove?— doorspj24
- I like this move assuming -- especially because Lowe was very close to Larry Bowa. Maybe Bowa will find his way back home now that his favoriate pitcher will be in Phillies pinstripes.— wcgiles
- I like this move assuming -- especially because Lowe was very close to Larry Bowa. Maybe Bowa will find his way back home now that his favoriate pitcher will be in Phillies pinstripes.— wcgiles
grammar nazis...we get the point...— kjuggs77- I think all that sweating Lowe does is an indication of more than how he processes bodily fluids. For a veteran pitcher with World Series experience, he seemed to fold under the pressure in his NLCS starts. If he signs with the Phillies, people seated behind the first base dugout at the Park should prepare to catch his errantly thrown glove as he walks to the dugout, pulled in the 3rd inning to a chorus of boos.— frankenslade
- "At the beginning of last season, the Phillies were considered a team whose strength was THERE power. There? It's "their"...you are a journalist?— TheNationHimself
- I would trade some HR production for a 300 hitter. So, someone who could hit 300, 20HRs and 70 RBIs would be just fine with me to replace Burrell. If Howard could get his avg up to 280 and hit the same HR and RBIs we would have perfection!— psuwelsh
- Sign Lowe AND sign Burrell. You'll probably get Burrell cheap. I get the sense he would love to play another year here.— andwhysee
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Yea, bash Murph for spelling "there" wrong, are you serious? Did he get his point across? I think he did. Stop nitpicking about meaningless grammatical errors on this article and stay on the topic.
wow you guys are lame, who the hell cares if he has a grammatical error? does it really make your day to point out a columnist's mistake, while he's blogging none the less? get a life and use the comment board for discussion of the blog. anyhow, it would be soo sick to get lowe, but do i think its going to happen? nah probably not, but i like the effort. and i really like the idea of the platoon in left if they can get a guy like baldelli. also, what about the guy they just got for golson? he may be young but i'm sure he could at least platoon with the names mentioned above and maybe baldelli— MPatt24- In Hockey speed kills....baseball is pitching....basketball...who knows....football is running the ball. Let's do this right please?— Dvs Mind
- wow you guys are lame, who the heck cares if he has a grammatical error? does it really make your day to point out a columnist's mistake, while he's blogging none the less? get a life and use the comment board for discussion of the blog. anyhow, it would be soo sick to get lowe, but do i think its going to happen? nah probably not, but i like the effort. and i really like the idea of the platoon in left if they can get a guy like baldelli. also, what about the guy they just got for golson? he may be young but i'm sure he could at least platoon with the names mentioned above and maybe baldelli— MPatt24
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- It's a blog, people. Pipe down on the spelling and grammar. No way Burrell is coming back to Philly, but they still need one more RH bat with some pop.— Bake McBride
- The DNews needs too higher better righters!— Super5
- I'd rather have Lowe than Ibanez. Ibanez #s are a mirage, plus he's another lefty. The rotation looks great on paper, but just keep one thing in mind...injuries. Alot of times pitchers who pitch deep into the postseason have injuries the following year ie. Beckett. So you pour the 14 million into Lowe's arm and lose the productivity in left field, one thing you can guarantee is that the Phils won't have that comeback ability the way they have over the years, and sure pitching wins but pitching also breaks down over a season. We have the pitching & its proven. You need players with 25+ homerun capabilities who can change a game with one swing and having 3 (Burrell, Howard, Utley) is alot better than having two. Instead of possibly getting a homer when down 3 runs with Burrell your most likely to get a double out of Werth who would hit behind Howard.— Phils30
- I like it....I like it alot... But then again, how many successful big name pitchers have we brought to Philly in the last 10 years? Jamie Moyer certainly wasn't one, neither was Joe Blanton... I still have nightmares of that guy (Freddie Garcia?) from the White Sox... They should have kept Randy Wolf...I loved the Wolfpack in the stands...best group ever— kjuggs77
- The Phil's front office can do whatever it wants as far as I'm concerned. They just won a world series.— SteveV
- Citizen's Bank Park is the house that Burrell built. It's the only way he scraped together 30 HRs and 90 RBI. His outfield assists are inflated as well...when he plays the ball off the wall he's got all of 200 feet to throw to 2nd base. His numbers will not be missed.— jreese
- Lowe is the perfect type pitcher for the phils to target because he is one of the best sinkerball pitchers in the game. His game is definitely suited for CBP that way. Guys go up there swinging for the fences and they just roll over to second base. I like the idea.— Ryan
- I will miss the ribbing Pat gets for those old Phillies publicity pics of him being all buff and working out and now he's all flabby...haha- Burrell's been a good player, a great teammate according to other Phils, and regardless of numbers, he will be missed by Phillies fans— kjuggs77
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- Why dont they sign Burrell and Lowe. I hope the fans realize how much money is in the coffers of the Phillies owners. We shuold be a top 5 spending team— Sports4Life
- The guy is 35, pitches 200+ innings every year, and will want a multi-year contract. There's no point in sacrificing that much payroll for Lowe. RA Jr. just needs to follow in Gillick's lead. Don't spend all of your money on the big-name free agents.— rico brogna
- Lboogie: really? I'm not responding to that because you're just proving my point and I think you know that. Phillies should get this deal done and then sign MAN RAM. Lock up the World Series.. Go Murph!
- Don't forget Brett Myers will be a free agent after next year. Good idea to get a Lowe for a few years so that the loss won't be so great after next year in the rotation. Or - maybe Myers would be traded?— frankatlasalle
- That would be a great rotation! I think we need a right handed bat in left field, moving Pedro up is some solution but with dobbs/werth in lf, that is a heavy left handed hitting line up. Offer "The Bat" arbitration and see where this thing goes.— PhillyInVa
- That new rotation looks really great!— mick
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- THERE IS NO SALARY CAP IN BASEBALL! The Phillies should spend a fortune to get the best players. Its no skin off our backs. It only helps the team, keeps your prospects here and the fans win. Don't add to the cheapness of this organization and help them to figure ways to save money. We just won the World Series, SPEND IT!— Sports4Life
- I'm almost positive that Victorino is going to leadoff this season, and I'm really not sure about the rest of this upcoming season's lineup for the first time in years... Where does Werth bat on a daily basis? 2nd or 6th? Is Jenkins going to play more? I think if he gets to play on a daily basis, he will be batting behind Howard in the 5 hole...he's got eerily similar career numbers (not including last year's terrible stats) to Pat Burrell. Where is Rollins going to bat? 2nd or 3rd? Does J-Roll hit behind Utley for the first time? Who knows? Like I said, I think there's going to be alot more lineup juggling than people anticipate, especially without a strong RH hitter without Burrell in the lineup. Now if they find a way to re-sign Pat, the lineup will be set in about 2 minutes...lol— kjuggs77
- I don't get this team. Amaro's already not making sense. Derek Lowe??? What's the point? This Phils won with most of the players coming up through the organization. The players we added finished the puzzle - WORLD SERIES CHAMPS. If they don't re-sign Burrell (which they should) then the Phils have a guy in the organization who's a power hitter - Michael Taylor. Let's not make the mistake of holding him back too long like they did with Ryan Howard who was ready to come up at least a year earlier (I know about Thome). We've also got a terrific pitcher in Carrasco and a good looking one in Happ with Savery right behind. Role players like maybe Baldelli are one thing, but let's not have Amaro go "Mets" on us and sign alot of mediocre over-priced pitchers and players. Even the one good guy they got - Santana, wasn't enough. Keep this team together - it's the best in baseball. I mean the Phils won didn't they.— Phillyexp
- Is a WS championship enough to get pitchers, even ground-ballers like Lowe, to come to the CBP not-so-pitcher-friendly confines? Money might be but that's never been the Phils' strong suit. Yeah, I see Lowe going back to Beantown or the Bronx for more money but I support the strategy, if in fact the Phils are trying to go more with pitching.— PhillySubsMac
- The problem with the Mets has been that Omar Minaya has blatantly made it a point to turn that team into "Los Metos" and focus on nobody but Latino players... I agree with whoever mentioned Joe Savery, and I will be interested to see Kyle Drabek as well as Carlos Carrasco... I really want to see Lou Marson play in the future also, but catcher is the one position where I'll take defense over offensive numbers anyday...that was made obvious by watching TB's catcher in the WS and comparing him to Ruiz...— kjuggs77
- Hey, PhillyzkidSC, you better re-read the above. You misquoted him. Where do you see THERE POWER?? Get your quotes right kid. Duh!— pink7
- To everyone that is complaining about spelling mistakes and grammar....beat it nerds. Their are better things too waste you're time on. Just reed the article and try to get threw it before calling the grammar police, dorks.— TurdFerguson
- I would pass on Lowe. He would not be worth the salary he would demand. His numbers look better than he really is, because he played alot of games last year in pitcher's parks, such as Dodger Stadium, PETCO park, and San Fran's park.— glennboe
- I am 100% for getting Derrick Lowe on the Phillies. I hope they made him a good offer. Lowe has been very solid in the postseason and he is a good fit for this team. He has has the experience and vetean leadership to really help this team. I definitely vote for starting pitching over power for next year.— GHOSTPHAYCE
- "if ya cant beat them.. join them"— PhillySportsChick
- MTbelly, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO MAKE A PR MOVE, THEY THE WORLD CHAMPS! IDIOT— northphillyboy
- PhillyzkidSC... can you read... no where in the article is your quote...WTF enough with the drugs— phillysmart
- MTBelly, you don't remember Mike Lowell. We offered him more than Boston did.— wjg
- Just as defense wins titles in football and basketball and just as goaltending wins titles in hockey, pitching wins titles in baseball. Use the money spent on Pat this year to improve the starting rotation. Lowe would be a tremendous addition and a prefect fit for The Bank. Then either (a) bring Moyer back or (6) let Happ, Kendrick, Carrasco, and Carpenter fight it out for the #5 spot and use Moyer's money to get Milton Bradley to play left. Bradley is Gary Matthews re-incarnated! He is also only Type-B FA, so signing him would not cost any draft picks.— southpaw57
- hey jagwads, hate to break it to you, but neither the Yanks, Sox (White or Red), nor the Mets won the World Series. We did. Lowe will end up here. Murph is dead-on. When you have the RARE combo of a manager that has good judgement on WHEN to use guys, along with gems in the rough like Werth, Jenkins, & Sobbs, use the $$$ for pitching. No guarantee that the entire staff won't crumble, but do what you gotta do and sign the pitchers. We can worry about replacing Felix, J-Ro, and Howard after we win the next World Series.— MichaelZoe
- I think Wheelermustgo makes a good point. Without Burrell -- or a top power threat -- who will protect Howard. Feliz did a good job protecting Bonds, but his offensive numbers weren't great last year. I do like a Dobbs-Baldelli platoon (would rather have Burrell, but if it must be...). Lowe would be a nice fit to the rotation.— OneChampionshipPLEASE
- The only part of that staff I am worried about is Myers.— coach1456
- Let's not make the mistake of holding him back too long like they did with Ryan Howard who was ready to come up at least a year earlier (I know about Thome). THIS IS A MYTH. LOOK AT Howard's minor league career. You're wrong.— MichaelZoe
- One part of the Phils' pitching staff has not been discussed, because of a failure of perception, and an overestimation. I am referring to our closer, Mr. Lidge. I know, I know . . . he was magnificent. We would not have been in the Series, let alone have won it, without his world class performance. BUT . . . take note, my friends, he struggled, he was losing effectivness towards the end, for the last month of the regular season I would say there were easily a half dozen appearances in which he seemed to be about to lose his streak. Luck, in many cases, was on his side. What's the worry? How many times have we seen a reliever seem to be on the downward slide, struggle for a while, and then have his stuff just fall off a cliff? Remember 1993? Lidge has lost about half a foot off the fastball, and was dependent on his slider, which, by the end of the Series, was losing his bite. We lucked out, friends, in having key young hitters in opposition who could not hold off the outside pitches. This will not happen next year. Time, and I cannot stress this strongly enough, to have someone who can read the writing on the wall and begin to look for young closer arms in our own and other organizations and make a concerted effort to bring them along. Fast. Because, mark my words, by June we will wonder where the old Lidge went and where the next will be coming from.— OlMaster
Pitching or Power? Go with pitching every time. Baseball is and always will be about pitching!- Comment removed.
- Lowe is a head case. I would rather have Burnett. The guy has good stuff and can be unhittable at times. Plus Burnett is younger and i know he has a history of injury problems but when he is healthy hes a dominant pitcher. Lowe is nothing more than sinker ball pitcher who we hit in the playoffs and he gets upset when he gives up a few hits and then falls apart. Get rid of Howard?? LOL. Must be McNabb hater. Yeah get rid of 48hrs and 147 RBI...He will hit better this year just wait and see.— Prego614
- Don't forget about Adam Eaton.— oceancitygreek
- Letting both BHurrell and Moyer go...filling in with Lowe? GREAT! IMO the team would still need some better LFer, a righty with some power. My idea: sign Lowe and trade Myers for that LFer plus a prospect. That SHOULD bring some very worthy righty with some power. Hamels, Lowe, (Moyer?) Blanton, Happ, Carrasco. Myers: isn't '09 his post-season walk/free agency? IMO he redeemed himself during ther l;ast 6-8 weeks of '08. Very tradeable. The team's pitching future still rests with guys like Happ and Carrsco...with others to follow. Saving Myers salary ($7 mil?) would help pay the new LFer.— artfulme
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- peeple hoo com on hear too point out gramatical errers nead two gett a life— EndTheDrought
- LOTS OF ENGLISH MAJORS AND THIRD GRADE TEACHERS READ THESE COMMENTS.— JACK V
- One very important difference between the Lowell offer and the Lowe offer. The Phillies have now won a World Series and with their young nucleus are considered to be a team that can contend for the title for at least the next 2 to 4 years. Soooo, I think the odds of us getting Lowe type have increase significantly.— derrickwh
- Rico- I didn't know your were David's English teacher.— pringleschief
- Enough Ibanez! He is not a fit with this club. You CAN NOT go L-L-L in the middle of the order.— willy33
- Liked Moyer, love Lowe -- if he really bears down, which has not been a constant in his career. He is by no means a mentor to our younger pitchers! Please. Do a little research. Let Lidge do the mentoring. I have to think there are better short- and long-term answers in left field than Burrell, who seems to be aging prematurely. He was a total streak-freak class act during his years in Philly. Thanks Pat, now let's move on. If we can keep Hamels and (maybe) Howard, this team can be good for quite some time.— emaninmaine
- Liked Moyer, love Lowe -- if he really bears down, which has not been a constant in his career. He is by no means a mentor to our younger pitchers! Please. Do a little research. Let Lidge do the mentoring. I have to think there are better short- and long-term answers in left field than Burrell, who seems to be aging prematurely. He was a total streak-freak class act during his years in Philly. Thanks Pat, now let's move on. If we can keep Hamels and (maybe) Howard, this team can be good for quite some time.— emaninmaine
- that trio platooning in left is a big mistake. I would rather see someone brought up from the minors.— chollie
- According to the outstandingly egotistical Jayson Stark, "The Phillies don't stand a very good chance of signing Derek Lowe."— mjriley26
- Murphy: I don't see how you could put Moer/Happ/Kendrick . . . as though they are equal replacements for Moyer. Check out the ERA's. I think you're right about focus on SP rather than LF power in the Phil's salary structure. They did go get that Mayberry kid for power down the road which then allows then to move off of Pat and focus on pitching. Pat was the highest paid Phillie this year. So I'm not surprised they're moving off of him. CK— CouchKing
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- phillys kidsc......"At the beginning of last season, the Phillies were considered a team whose strength was there power." "THERE" power? WTF Murph? You are a paid professional... get the right word in there... or is it their? can't stand posters who are so smart that they proofread well and correct the author. so your a grammar genius get over yourself, its a freaking blog. ridiculous as well though that murphy changed the post after realizing his mistake.
- Did you know that 36 year old, lefthanded hitting, Raul Ibanez, has a higher split against lefthanders? I think last year he hit .305 against lefties and .290 against righthanders. I know there's no hope that we sign both him and Lowe. Frankly, we lack the imagination, stuck as we are in this "small market". 82 sellouts next year won't be enough for the mysterious owners to feast upon. The World Series win surely proved to them they are right in the belief that says, "see, we don't need all those big moneyed stars, look at the Mets". The owners, whoever they are, have to get use to the idea that it's good to be envied by the fans in the rival cities, and it's fun to be hated, a la the Yankees.— jp
- hey,guys and gals, relax and bask in the glow of being world series champions for the next few months. trust me. enjoy it now while you can. i've seen 2 since 1939 when i saw my 1st game.also before you want to wierd out with exotic trades ,trust me again when i say that donald is ready for the major leagues .where to plug him in won't be a problem because he is an athlete. next years team has enough mix and match players to repeat. if we do any thing ,i like lowe,or burnett,or byrd.happ should be in the starting rotation by june . john machuzick— machuzick
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