Phillies rumor mill update
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Phillies rumor mill update
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
In Ken Rosenthal's latest dispatch for FoxSports.com, he provides us with the latest indication that the expectations harbored by some Phillies fans about a Cole Hamels trade are unrealistic. Rosenthal says that the Rangers are unwilling to trade Mike Olt, Jurickson Profar or Martin Perez for a rental player. Olt is a guy who many fans have targeted as the Phillies' third baseman of the future, and you have to think that Ruben Amaro Jr. would target him as well. The 23-year-old entered Sunday hitting .292/.403/.574 with 22 home runs and 85 strikeouts in 281 at-bats at Double-A Frisco. Only problem is, the Rangers have asked him to play some first base this season, raising the possibility that they find a place for him at the position on the big league level. Conventional wisdom had suggested that Olt was blocked by Adrian Beltre at third and thus could be had in a trade.
The simple truth is that general managers are going to be reluctant to part with a legit prospect at a premium position in exchange for two months of a player, even one who is as good as Hamels. As we noted in our earlier breakdown of the trade deadline, C.C. Sabathia and Cliff Lee both landed Top 50 prospects, as rated by Baseball America, but both of those prospects were first basemen.
-ESPN's Buster Olney says that the Phillies' asking price for Shane Victorino is "very, very high right now." That isn't atypical of two weeks before the trade deadline. No harm in asking for the moon. In reality, though, the Phillies are probably going to have to settle for an uninspiring package. Take, for example, the Braves' trade for Michael Bourn last year. Atlanta gave up four players, none of which were in Baseball America's Top 100, or even among the organization's top five prospects. Brett Oberholtzer was ranked the ninth prospect in the organization by BA, but he projects as little more than a back-of-the-rotation starter or a middle reliever. Paul Clemens, a 22-year-old righty, might have a little more upside. Again, though, not a top prospect. BA didn't even have him in the Braves' Top 10. The other pieces were Juan Abreu, a reliever with command problems, and Jordan Schafer, who was once a top prospect but has struggled in the majors. And that was for a center fielder who was in the middle of a better season and who had another year left on his contract. If the Phillies can get a piece that can help them out of the bullpen or at the back of the rotation in the next couple seasons, it will be a successful trade.
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Pay Hamels $25 million a year to win 10-15 games? Seems like they could piece together that many wins for a lot cheaper.— SteveS11- Oops, forgot Utley's $15 millions
— EL Zorro - Name a pitcher who has hit free agency with a more impressive overall resume and more upside than Hamels? Sabathia is the only one who compares and the massive contracts the Yankees have given him seem to have paid off. — jtj06
- Maybe Murphy should check in with Ken Rosenthal on how the Phillies could solve their BIGGEST problem.
That would be getting Jimmy Rollins out of Philadelphia and let this team proceed with their rebuilding (retooling as is now more politically correct ).
This team is not going anywhere, this year or down the road, with him as the center piece.
They need a new face on this franchise. That should be their number one priority.
To keep Hamels or let him go - none of that matters unless you take care of the Rollins problem first.— candidly - I love all the comments regarding the cupboard being bare. Most that post that are simply reguritating the articles they read on line. If ANY of you took the time to actually look at the Phillies minor league teams and check out some of the players, you would take back those comments. Secondly, someone please post the MLB talent right NOW in baseball for all the amazing minor leaguers taht were traded for Lee/Halladay/Pense/Oswalt. I'd love to see a "where are they now" list. The worst trade was to Chicago letting Geo Gonzalez/Josh Outman go probably the worst 4 game pitcher ever to wear a Phillies uniform (Garcia who happens to pitch for the Yankees now). Why doesn't anyone attack Pat Gillick for that bone head move? Instead, let the injuries heal...let the guys get back....and sign Hamels. Let the team morph back to where it was and will be in 2013.— drhoffman
- I'll reiterate what was written elsewhere about Chuck Lamar. The Phillies were trading away prospects willy-nilly and reducing the budget that would allow them to sign their draft picks. He quit his position as director of player development and scouting because Amaro wasn't giving him resources to scout, sign, and develop players. Lamar is a long-time baseball guy. Also, watch a rerun of the Futures game from last Sunday. There were several guys from those trades you mentioned who look like they are headed for the show. — jtj06
- DUMB RUBE traded away the frm system,got Halladay all that and no World SERIES.G— tobyjoe
- DUMB RUBE CLEANED OUT THE FARM SYSTEM FOR HALLADAY,LEE,PENCE NOW WE HAVE HALLADAY,LEE,PENCE AND NO WORLD SERIES. NO CHANCE TO WIN EVEN A PLAYOFF SPOT.NOW IT'S TIME TO GET RID OF DUMB RUBE,HALLADAY,LEE,PENCE,CHARLEY,ALL HIS DUMB COACHES.IT'S TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE.— tobyjoe
- DUMB RUBE CLEANED OUT THE FARM SYSTEM FOR HALLADAY,LEE,PENCE NOW WE HAVE HALLADAY,LEE,PENCE AND NO WORLD SERIES. NO CHANCE TO WIN EVEN A PLAYOFF SPOT.NOW IT'S TIME TO GET RID OF DUMB RUBE,HALLADAY,LEE,PENCE,CHARLEY,ALL HIS DUMB COACHES.IT'S TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE.— tobyjoe
- mike 1 -- thanks for telling me what I think. I actually posted against the gutting of the farm system when the Phillies were making these deals. We lived through this before: it didn't work then and it obviously does not work now (Expos did the same thing, and look where it got them). No team worth their salt mortgages their future. Hamels and Victorino will not return much in the way of prospects. Phillies alone seem to like trading away their future which is why we're in the mess we're in now.— DameB
- Oh Sam, oh Sam. You're one of the people Wist is talking about. The relay man is the infielder (usually SS or 2B) who goes into the outfield to get the first throw from the outfielder on a deep base hit. The cut-off man is the infielder (usually 1B or 3B) who goes onto the infield grass to take a throw to the plate and cut it off to attempt a putout of a runner at another base. Don't worry yourself though. A lot of broadcasters use them interchangeably - yeah I'm looking at you McCarthy.— calm weather
- Baloney. A SS or 2B lines up for an outfielder to throw to a base. He is then tasked to cutoff a throw if told to, and relay it if appropriate. Just because the school of Ripken baseball differentiates between the two, doesn't make it so. I played baseball for almost 20 years and never had a coach make that distinction. Even if there IS a distinction, it's purely semantically and something even professional players would probably disagree on... hardly an example of differentiating between a casual fan and a knowledgeable fan.
— Sam Crow - Sorry, but this guys is completely wrong about Hamels, probably why he leaves himself an out by using the phrase 'at a premium position'. It's true the Rangers might not want to part with their top 3 guys, specifically Olt who might even be called up soon, but I guarantee trading Hamels brings at least 1 legit prospect, maybe even that plus some minor league depth. Value isn't about Hamels being a rental, it is about if he can help you get tothe world series (he can) or if you want to be facing him in the playoffs (you dont). It also is about what Amaro (or any GM trading a superstar fan fav) simply has to get in return in order for him to be able to make the trade. Anyone think Texas says 'sorry, all we will give you are 2 average prospects, take it or leave it' with the Yankees sniffing around?— MileHiEagle
- Murph, Are you serious with this article? It is absolute nonsense to believe that Hamels will not bring back a top 3-5 prospect. Two years ago, Seattle traded Cliff Lee in the exact same situation and got a top prospect from Texas. Lee was older than Hamls at the time and no better yet Texas and the Yankees battled each other until the last possible minute of the deadline. Seattle had agreed to take Jesus Montero who was one of the best prospects in the entire Yankee system. But, they went back to Texas and said we want Justin Gloak who was Texas's best position prospect or we take the Yankees deal. Well, Texas finally said yes to Gloak and it was done. So, please don't tell me that Hamels will not get at least that much from Texas or the Yankees or any lother team battling to get Hamels. Lee was a rent a player just like Hamels is now.— matty177
- I love how so many people here want other teams' GMs to do the exact thing they hate Amaro for doing.— RickB
