Phillies formally file protest
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Phillies formally file protest
Paul Hagen and Daily News staff
Joe West ejects Charlie Manuel for arguing the overturned call. (Hector Gabino/AP Photo, El Nuevo Herald)
The Phillies formally filed a protest today of yesterday's 14-inning loss to the Marlins.
General manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said the basis of the protest is that the Phillies don't believe the replay rule was properly applied.
"We felt like we had grounds to back Charlie’s protest, and we’ll let Major League Baseball make the decision," Amaro said. "Our feeling was that we frankly that the utilization of the video was not properly used in this case. But we’ll see."
By now you know that Hunter Pence was ruled out on fan interference call after initially being awarded a double in the sixth inning of what ended up as a 5-4 Phillies loss. The ruling change could have cost the Phillies two runs.
A fan wearing a Phillies jersey reached over the railing and tried to catch the ball with his hat. Marlins outfielder Bryan Peters' glove hit the hat when he attempted to make the play.
Afterward, Charlie Manuel said he protested because he did not believe the replay review was valid because only home runs are reviewable. The umpires said the review was valid because the Philliwes were arguing that it should have been a home run.
Asked what he expects to get out of it, Amaro said, "I don’t have an answer for that. We just felt like we had grounds."
Amaro said he did not know how long it would take to get a ruling. He the way the rule is written in the rulebook is "very clear."
"Our feeling was that, in our estimation, how you interpret the rule is that you utilize the video replay to decide whether a ball is a home run or not," he said. "We didn’t feel that was the case in this case."
Amaro said he is comfortable with the current replay system and does not think that it should be expanded beyond home runs.
He declined to comment when asked about the difference in statements made by Manuel and umpire Joe West. Manuel said he did not ask for a replay. West said the manager did. "I’m not going to get those discussions," Amaro said.
Asked whether he wanted the game to be replayed from the point of the issue, Amaro said, "Well, I think we’re just trying to do what we think is right. And we’ll deal with the consequences after that."
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Comments (44)
He said, she said. We all know arrogant, hubristic, argumentative Cowboy Joe West, who has his thing for the Phillies, will not stand up like a man here. He'll hide behind the 'Manuel was stating it was a homerun, so we have to review it' stance. The umpiring was pathetic including the last three pitch calls. But we know that this will not be reviewed since the Marlins have their stadium booked, it doesn't matter in the standings, and the ratings say a closer race with the Atlantans would help the coffers of MLB. Priceless.— 24sDad- Alex Dicandio and Augie Fitzhenry are idiots who should be banned from CBP for life.— spearmuzik
- Yes,they are total idiots! Just listen to their comments. — fred13
- They are not going to uphold the protest. They never do. Interesting to see what they say.— Ssteve115
- If they don't they set a very dangerous precedent. Home fans then have all the motivation to interfere on a ball hit by the away team. — n62
- despite whether the Phillies should of or should have not won the game, the point is that MLB officiating is weak at best and the Umps need to be held accountable for their poor calls— jamarder
- Really. Who gives a dang? The last protest upheld was reported in an earlier article was 1986. Waste of time and another example of the weakness of the commish.— Clem
- The Phillies have invested millions in attracting Alex DiCandio and Augie Fitzhenry and their ilk. You sow what you reap, the Good Book says.— Wilhelm Von Humboldt
- The most the Phillies can hope for is the league to apologize and say the umpires were wrong but they won't replay it.— mikegdj
- I don't believe anything that Jee West says.... period.. any neither should however the commissioner of baseball is... for the good of the game..— STEVE5444
- Even if the Phillies were arguing that it should have been a home run, the replay is supposed to only rule on home run or not. Its not supposed to rule on interference. But still, I don't see any point in replaying the game unless it affects the final standings.— SteveS11
- This is clear. The loss should be voided and the game played at that point if it is determined that the game will mean anything. It is NOT relevant if Charlie asked for the replay (he still claims he didn't) because you still can't call that interference on a replay. MLB is going to have a tough time getting out of this one.— MDefl
- Joe West is flat-out lying. But this is the MLB where umpires are not held accountable for anything, are not evaluated, and can do whatever the heck they please and never be called into question. And spineless Bud Selig will never do anything to change that.— n62
- Murph, I think you are dropping the ball on this one, no pun intended. I agree with what Smalls said on DNL. It is the integrity of the umpire that is at issue. Fat Joe sounds like the Jon Lovitz character on the old SNL " I watched the replay because Charlie thought it was a home run. Oh Charlie didn't say that, then I watched it because the home plate umpire thought there was fan interference. Yeah, that's the ticket, the home plate umpire thought there was interference. Because I never make a mistake!!!"— StorminNorman
- That fan...how do you spell jerk?— ngfs66
STEVE544, I agree with what you say, especially this part: "any neither should however the commissioner of baseball is... for the good of the game..", whatever that means. The two guys who interfered may or may not be jerks, but I wouldn't blast them for this. Sitting in the stands at a Phillies game, it's pretty hard not to put your hand/hat out for what looks like a very catchable ball hit your way.— 1980- Opens up a whole new world of possibilities: say it's the NLCS vs. the Brewers, top of the eighth, two men on in a tie game. Braun hits a deep fly to left, Ibanez gets to the wall, leaps for the catch and a "smart" Phillies fan reaches over the rail and tries to catch the ball interfering with Ibanez trying to make the catch. Sorry, Braun, you're out and runners go back to where they were. Stupid call if upheld.— geeknphillly
- I don't put much blame on the two fans.
They and nearby fans probably thought it was a home run.
But I seriously doubt any Phillie made that argument, and that makes Joe West not just a loud-mouth spotlight seeker but a liar.— VicM - Shame they can't protest Fabio Matthews being the Eagles MLB. They would win that one.— Astro Jones
- I live in SWFlorida---attended both Saturday and Sunday games---miserable outcomes but somewhat entertaining. I was in the 9th row directly behind the play. I thought it was going to be a HR, but it kept tailing. These guys acted on instinct---they're not bad guys, and when you're following the ball the last thing your thinking is---is this over that yellow line or not? When they were escorted out, they didn't ham it up. They made a mistake that may have cost the Phils the game. Maybe Paterson catches the ball, maybe he doesn't, but we'll never know. Peterson was getting into it in a friendly way with the Phils fans in RF---also seems like a good guy. (By the way, 4,000 fans and 3,500 were Phillies fans.) But the umps did apply the rule incorrectly, and are most at fault in all of this---either rule the fans interfered, or let it stand---the review was only intended to call it a HR or not, and they come back with an out? The Phils are right---but the game under protest rule should either be enforced, or taken off the books.— rags
Comment removed.- The whole point is if a review was requested for a possible home run call. Spectator interference can be involked in that situation.
What Joe West said to the press yesterday doesn't matter; his official statement is in the report he submitted to MLB.
The media isn't going to let the facts get in the way of their story.— cybersport - Comment removed.
- I'm pretty sure no Phillies talked to that fat liar prior to the review, so who asked for it to be a homerun? Joe West seems to love controversy, he's had a controversial call that hurt the Phillies several times over the past couple years. It's pretty clear, you can't review a double, so there is no way in the rulebook to fix the call they initially missed. So really, there are two acts of incompetence here, the initial missing of the interference call, and then throwing out the rulebook to overturn it. Refs/Umps have no accountability, that is the problem, Joe West should never get another paycheck from anyone.— Pelti
- Two Words---JOE WEST--One of the most arrogant umps around.
I remember one game where a Phils 2nd baseman asked him to move
a little in the field and was/or almost was thrown out of the game.— HO HUM - I actually can't stand T-Mac and the boys on TV, but they made a valid point yesterday. None of the umpires was able to get out there to get a good look at the play in question. It really isn't much of a surprise considering that the Fat Four made up yesterday's umpiring team. The other 3 pro leagues have athletic standards for their officials -- baseball should do the same.— catnameddomino
- Or the Faililles could have won the game in extra innings and went on with life, losing to a team 27 games back of them LOL.— mikenphilly
- Arm the citizens!— quigly46
- Still trying to figure out where the Philliwes play...
Who's editing this stuff? Really. The journalistic standard has gone right out the window. No wonder you're going broke.....— Bill8339 - as i said in another thread, the perfect corollary here the pass interference rule in football. if you are reviewing a close play to see if a player was in or out of bounds on a TD pass, the ref cannot come back from that review and say "i saw pass interference that wasn't called originally, so no TD." if he did, he'd be fined and/or fired. but that is not how it will go in baseball. we all know that. doesn't mean it's right. but it isn't going to change anything.— tockeyhockey
- I thought West made the right call, based on the videotape information and the application of the rules. He got it right, PhilliesFan...stop griping and move on. If the Phils won that game you wouldn't all have your granny panties in a bunch.
- Although the fans should have not interfered, its my view that the result ended up the same. The outfielder would have caught the ball, and Pence would have been out, and Howard would have returned to first.— Bobphxville
- Comment removed.
- COULD HAVE BEEN A MARLINS FAN,WITH A PHIL'S JERSEY ON,THERES A LOTTA PHILLIES GEAR DOWN HERE..AND A LOTTA PEOPLE JUMPIN ON THE BANDWAGON...RULING GONNA STAND,AND THE TEAM HAS TO MOVE ON,KEEP WINNING BABY, RED OCTOBER NOT FAR..........GO PHILLIES!— t_darb_56
- Most likely (and hopefully, unless there's an epic collapse) this game won't mean anything, but it's not about this game. As others have stated, this is about the pi*s poor state of umpiring in MLB. Use instant replay or don't at all. Baseball's already a slow game and a ball is in or out, a guy is safe or out, etc, and it wouldn't take much longer than the regular pace of play to review the close calls in baseball (like slowing down football where half the plays could be reviewed and there are 10 bodies all hitting the ball or carrier at once) because there are not too many controversial calls in baseball and those that are controversial are usually clear cut in a replay. I'd even say put in computer strike zones and get rid of these temperamental umps altogether and get the game called correctly. It's not 1908, we have technology, it's time to move on and use it. I recall that night games were a controversy at one time.— donde
- tockey, that's not really a good analogy because under the rules, when a home run is reviewed on instant replay, they ARE allowed to rule on fan interference. A better analogy would be if in the NFL, the refs decided to review a play without either of the coaches throwing the red flag (and the play doesn't get an automatic review).— fafafooey
- Who names their kid Augie (or Augustus) nowadays? Gotta luv our Yankees-esque nationwide bandwagon fans.— albrock
- Cowboy Joe West burries puppies neck deep and then brings out the lawnmower...— bluejfk
- Murph, you're slipping. Nothing over the whole weekend (this is supposed to be a blog, right?). Nothing about Amaro's failure to bring up enough arms to get through an extra inning fiasco. Nothing about Halladay getting screwed out of a loss because Schwimmer is in a one-run game in the seventh inning (WTF!).
And then this gem, with "Philliwes" and all sorts of obvious errors in the Amaro quotes. Step it up. This isn't Myrtle Beach anymore.— jackparkman - Posted 7:07 PM, 09/05/2011
The whole point is if a review was requested for a possible home run call. Spectator interference can be involked in that situation.
What Joe West said to the press yesterday doesn't matter; his official statement is in the report he submitted to MLB.
The media isn't going to let the facts get in the way of their story.
— cybersport
**********************
And just how do you know that interference can be called in that situation? There is nothing that states it is permitted. There is no standard announced. Video replay is not part of the formal rules of baseball - there are just the general rules announced when the policy was implemented. And the policy says that replay can be used only in cases of questions of potential home runs.
A strict reading of MLB's statements say that the review was improper. If there is an implied authority to review other calls, no one has yet said so.
Imagine the following: Batter hits a fly down the right field foul line that goes into the stands. The umps can't agree whether it was fair or foul. The manager of the team in the field comes out and protests that the batter missed first base. The umps say they didn't see it. Surprisingly, the video shows that he did miss 1st base. The replay concludes that the ball was fair and would be a home run. Can the ump's declare the batter out for missing 1st base? If yes, what is your authority? If no, how do you distinguish that situation from the present one?
— judas_priest - Plain and simple. If the league has any stones it should honor the protest and leave the game incomplete or finish it from that point in Philly. They didn't rule it was interferrence until after the review to see if it was a homer. None of the ums said it might have been a homer and neither team requested the review. So they should not have called Pence out and that's where it should either end or be resumed. The bad thing is they got it right, but they should not have been able to review it under the current rules.— pjm0825
- the rule regarding protests:
4.19
PROTESTING GAMES.
Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpireÂ’s decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions by the umpire. In all protested games, the decision of the League President shall be final.
Even if it is held that the protested decision violated the rules, no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting teamÂ’s chances of winning the game.
Rule 4.19 Comment: Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch, play or attempted play. A protest arising on a game-ending play may be filed until 12 noon the following day with the league office.— judas_priest - Addition to post on the rules of protesting games: theoffice of national league president no long exists except ceremonially. The commissioner's office makes the decision.
Much as I dislike Selig, this is probably good for the Phillies since he is believed to be hostile to replay and overturning this call would give him an opportunity both to act and to vent.— judas_priest - Comment removed.
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