Party like it is 2004: Rollins questions again arise
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Party like it is 2004: Rollins questions again arise
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
Ah, 2004: John Kerry was campaigning, the Passion of the Christ was in theatres, and Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears were embarking on the slippery slope to self-annhialation.
But as far as the Phillies' leadoff situation goes, we are right back where we were five years ago. I remember attending a game at Citizens Bank Park back in 2004 and afterward driving back to my apartment. On the radio, the only topic of the day was Jimmy Rollins' struggles as a leadoff hitter. People were saying trade him, bench him, move him down in the order. He would never be a successful leadoff hitter, never wield a consistent-enough bat to reach his sky-high potential.
In the Phillies' first 28 games that season, Rollins hit .188 with a .255 on base percentage. The previous two seasons, he had hit a combined .254 with a .313 on base percentage.
Well, we all know what happened after that. Rollins finished 2004 with his best big league season yet, hitting .289/.348/.455 with 14 home runs, 73 RBI, and 119 runs scored. From 2004-08, he hit .286/.342/.468, averaging just over 18 home runs, 72 RBI and 38 stolen bases per season.
Now, in 2009, the questions after Phillies games again center around Rollins' struggles, and whether manager Charlie Manuel would be better served moving him down in the order. Rollins went 0-for-5 yesterday and is hitting just .195 through the first 29 games of the season. He has reached base just three times in his previous 23 plate appearances, and the Phillies offense has struggled along with him the past couple of days.
Manuel bristled a little bit yesterday when asked if it was time to move Rollins down, although the bristling was probably more out of frustration than anger over the topic of questioning. You can read a detailed breakdown of the situation here in the story that I filed for the paper. In summation, though, Manuel still thinks Rollins' best fit is at the top of the order. And he seems to think that once Rollins turns it around, he will do so for good. It is just a matter of waiting out these struggles.
"I have a heck of a lot of patience," Manuel said.
The problem is, it is virtually impossible to take Rollins out of the leadoff spot while also hitting Ryan Howard fourth and breaking up the three lefty power hitters. There seem to be three options 1) Bat Rollins second, which I don't think would accomplish a heck of a lot, 2) Bat Howard fifth, or 3) Bat Utley, Ibanez and Howard in a row.
If I had to make a line-up that took Rollins out of the top of the order, I'd probably go with option 2. Below is a sample line-up, but I still don't think I like it any better than the one Manuel is currently using.
- Shane Victorino CF
- Chase Utley 2B
- Jayson Werth RF
- Raul Ibanez LF
- Ryan Howard 1B
- Pedro Feliz 3B
- Jimmy Rollins SS
- Carlos Ruiz C
- Pitcher
Comment removed.
Agreed - Rollins will turn it around.— Philth- I argued in the spring that the Phils should sign Pudge Rodriquez, seems like a wasted opportunity now doesn't it. Carlos Ruiz is a backup catcher at best. Murph, I don't understand you proposing to move Howard below Ibanez in your batting order. Keep the big guy in the fourth spot no matter how you change the batting order.— bigtbone
- Victorino, Utley, Werth, Howard, Ibanez, Feliz, Out, Out, Out - or - Victorino, Werth, Utley, Howard, Ibanez, Feliz, Out, Out, Out
- I'll bat Rollins second or third for the time being until he gets his stroke back. I agree with DR Heller, he will be a waste in the 7th hole. He is a fastball hitter. Batting second or third in front of Howard and after Utley he would get a lot more fastballs and less junk. You figure Utley would get on base a lot and with Howard behind him, it could be awesome. That way you also split all the lefthaders hitters and still have the first 4 hitters bat from the left side against a RH pitcher: Vic, Utley, Rollins and Howard. You could also put Ibañez fifth and have 5 LH in a row.— EL Zorro
- David - PSUFlyers is on the money. Seems like you're missing an obvious one.........Vic (S), Utley (L), Werth (R), Howard (L), Ibanez (L), can flip flop Feliz (R) or Rollins (S) in the 6-hole, Feliz or Rollins batting 7th, Carlos "Automatic Out" (or "Two", if a double play situation) Ruiz, Pitcher. If the argument is Rollins hits doubles and HR's without a high OBP, then stick him a semi-RBI spot where his OBP may be slightly less of an issue, and his struggles aren't so visible.— EaglesWest
- Murph, I would argue that arguably the second best hitter in baseball behind Pujols shouldn't bat two in the order. Don't you want Utley up to bat with runners in scoring position? Utley has too much power to hit second.— azazo26
- There is nothing wrong with Howard this year, its Rollins that is the problem. The team has won a majority of the games with Shane as the lead off man. Why is Jimmy still batting at the top of the order? I think it has to do more with his position on the team (Player rep), seniority, MVP, etc. than whether he is worthy of the lead off spot. Charlie has proven time and again that he will make exceptions for Jimmy and it doesn't look like this time will be any different. As far as his hitting is concerned, he looks to be a week away, but with Jimmy the problem has been and continues to be his desire to drive the ball for distance which is disasterous for a leadoff hitter. Combine that with the fact that he will not bunt for a hit and takes very few walks and we have big problems.— Wally 24
- *** The other thing that is madening about this years Phils is they will not take a base when the situation calls for it. Rollins or Victorino get on, there is one out, Utley a left handed hitter at the plate, the catcher is right handed, the count is 2-1 and nothing happens, over and over again. This is an ideal time to run yet we don't. Why? How about the fact that we seldom if ever bunt the man from 2nd to 3rd with 0 outs. Whats up with that? Charlie is back to being the same old predictable manager he was at this time last year and that in itself is a short coming because the opposing team will out manage him more often than not. So far this year we have survived on our share of luck and offense in the form of the HR, but that is not what wins games the majority of the time, it's the small ball, and of coarse the "D". *** So Rollins needs to bat in front of Ruiz for the immediate future, Howard should stay at the #4 slot with Victorino #1 & Utley #2. Ibanez and Werth should be swapped back and forth as the pitching demands at the #3 & #5 slots. Now you have a productive top of the order. These hitters have earned the right to be in the top of the order and the rest fit in some where down below.— Wally 24
- Please tell me that is a typo with Howard batting 5th??? Utley, Victorino, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Feliz, Rollins, Ruiz. If Jimmy's ego is an issue (everyone knows the answer to that one), flip flop him with Pedro. Utley is not Abreu, he just plays baseball. It doesn't matter where he hits. Great OBP. Great baserunner. And with this, your 2 most dangerous hitters (Utley & Howard) hit in the first inning.— bailey1
- Why not Victorino, Utley, Rollins, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Feliz, C, P.— 93phils
- The only reason this team is even near first is b/c Utley and Howard are both hitting the ball well. Howard will chase balls that are out of the zone so hitting him 5th with Feliz (though hot right now) behind him, a dead fastball hitter who will swing at anything is insane. Howard would get nothing but junk. They should bat Ibanez behind Howard b/c pitchers would have to throw fastballs to Howard. Lineup should be Vic, Utley, Werth, Howard, Ibanez, Rollins, Feliz, Ruiz, Pitcher.— beckert
- I was actually thinking Rollins should be 8th. If he were to get on base, with his speed and ability to steal, and a pitcher bunting, there's a decent chance for him to get to third and the top of the lineup coming up. However, Dr. Heller makes a good point about pitchers pitching around him. Hmm.. but... maybe they wouldn't pitch around someone batting around .200. It may work. It would be humbling, but it would only be until he can get his groove back.— awl
- bailey1 --- While I agree totally with your estimation of Utley he will be better at the #2 slot and will give an MVP year because all his stats will be up. Also when he hits #2 the leadoff hitter gets to see better pitches which happened in Aug last year when Charlie couldn't get the top of the line up to produce. They didn't want to pitch to Utley at #2 with a man on so Rollins got to see more fast balls. Utley also manages to get on in front of the #3, & #4 hitters in so many ways even though he doesn't bunt for hits. Ibanez is a clone of Utley in that he is very smart at the plate and will not hurt you over the long run. Werth is still a little streaky but seems to becoming a solid hitter. He does seem to be vulnerable to the low and away breaking junk but I have noticed he is controling himself better this year.— Wally 24
- Why not try Feliz in the 2 hole?— 93phils
