Manuel on Werth, Contract, and the World Series
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Manuel on Werth, Contract, and the World Series
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
If I had told you a year ago that you'd be watching Cliff Lee pitch in the World Series tonight, I'm sure you would have been ecstatic. Well, as Charlie Manuel likes to say: Funny game, this baseball.
Manuel said a lot of other stuff today in an appearance on 610-WIP, where he appears on a weekly radio show during the season. Not a lot of it was newsworthy. Most of it was interesting.
Here is the Cliffs Notes version:
1) Manuel's outlook on the Jayson Werth situation jibes with all the indications we've received from the organization over the past few months.
"From what I hear Ruben (Amaro Jr.) saying and my conversations with him, I think we definitely have some money to spend," Manuel said. "But at the same time, the problem is, length-wise of a contract, and also what direction we want to go in. From my point of view, to me, right now, I look at our core players, I'm a hitting guy, and I think we can develop a hitter before we can get a top notch pitcher or a top bullpen piece. If you look at our infield, take our catcher, and our pieces in the outfield, I think we definitely already have a good offense. It definitely has to hit better, which I'm planning on it doing, but at the same time, I think we can get production from the corner guys if we have to platoon or we have to go out and get a lesser big name piece."
Manuel did say later that he expects RAJ to negotiate with Scott Boras. But clearly, the Phillies have an alternate plan if, as everybody seems to expect, Werth's asking price (most specifically, the length of the deal) is out of their desired price range.
2) We floated this scenario the other day in our coverage in the Daily News, and Manuel mentioned it today: A platoon in right field to replace Werth. Keep in mind the Phillies had an outfield rotation in 2007 and 2008. Ross Gload played well this season and can play the corner outfield spots. I do not get the impression that the Phillies see using Domonic Brown in a platoon situation as ideal. A lot of the development he needs to do might not happen as quickly if he isn't playing every day. But it could happen. Don't be surprised though, if the Phillies target a lesser-named guy (think Jeff Francoeur or Matt Diaz) to provide some right-handed outfield depth to pair with a guy like Brown or Ross Gload. Depending on how Raul Ibanez starts next season, the platoon could also come with him in left field, enabling Brown to get regular playing time in right. Also, Ben Francisco hit well against lefties this season, so he could be an internal option.
"I think Ruben's got a lot on his plate as far as which way he wants to go in getting it done," Manuel said. "But I think he can. Evidently he definitely still wants to negotiate with Werth. It sounds like he's going to talk to Scott Boras, his agent, and things. That's definitely the first priority. And then that will lead us into which way he wants to take our team.
"I like young players. If something happens and we don't keep Jayson. (Domonic) Brown, that intrigues me. I'm really interested in that. We need a blend, a balance, a different look. We need to get back to what I call energy. We've got established big league players and they are good big league players, outstanding. Some of them are great. And they have their own way of playing. It's not like they don't hustle and things like that, but we could use a little different mixture."
3) Manuel didn't have much to say on his contract, which ends after next season, except to say he wants to continue to manage here.
"Ruben said something about that he would be talking to me sometime this fall, probably before Christmas," he said. "I'm sure he will. We'll see what develops."
4) And, of course, Manuel is still trying to get over the disappointing end to the season.
The other night when I talked to our guys after the game, that might have been one of the toughest talks that I've had since I've been a manager," Manuel said, "because you could tell that they were down, and they were hurt."
Comments (51)
Well if you told us Cliff Lee would have given up 8 runs in 4 innings we would have been suicidal— davi- I wonder what lonewolf will say tomorrow? Oh that's right-- probably nothing.— everydayguy
- and Cliff, we philly fans enjoyed watching each and every painful run..— zdog
- Francisco is just an "internal option"?? His numbers mirror Jayson Werth's through age 28.— Steveo31
- WAAAAHHHHHH! We shoulda kept Cwiff Wee! Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!! Cliff Lee gave up 6 runs in 4 and 2/3 innings tonight, against a team Halladay beat with a groin pull and even Joe Blanton only gave up 3 runs to.— BillHicksLives!
- Cliff Lee pitched tonight? Hmm I must've missed it.— UncleEddie
You know, I kinda, sorta didn't mind Cliff Lee losing tonight, what with him being sorta, kinda happy the Phillies lost. Doc is the man.- I had no problem rooting for Cliff Lee in the WS...UNTIL....he opened his big mouth yesterday. He cursed himself and it showed tonight. Brash and mouth wide open, he wanted so bad to face the Phillies to beat them, but he like the Phillies loosing since they got rid of him. He is still a clutch pitcher, a money guy, who got eat a huge serving of humble pie this evening. Remember, whether you win a game 1-0 or 11-4, its just one win. Texas could still get on a run..or the Giants are a team of destiny. Either way, 113 days til pitchers and catchers report. Can't wait!— drhoffman
- I guess the Cliff Lee bandwagon just got lost. He got pounded.— simplefreedom
- What about trading Rollins to free up even more space to sign Werth and bench/bullpen help? He's getting 8.5 million, but would be attractive to a lot of teams. You could add some talent and salary flexibility. Plus Valdez hits as good as Rollins has lately, albeit poorly, but as good as. I love Jimmy, but I love the Phils more.— mikeyhigs
- I love Doc as much as the next guy, but while he was giving away home-field advantage in Game 1 of the NLCS, Lee was reclaiming home field for the Rangers in Game 3 at Yankee Stadium.— PhightinPhil
- Phightin, If Ibañez doesn't misplayed Burrell's fly ball Doc gets out of the inning and we most likely win with Werth homer 3-2. — EL Zorro
- Zorro, so what you're saying is that Game 1 would've played out exactly as it did if Ibanez made that catch? - - - - - And Lincecum would've made the exact same pitch to Werth, in the exact same location with a one-run lead that he did with a three-run lead? - - - - - You know that for sure, huh? - - - - - I guess how that's how life looks in your bubble. — PhightinPhil
- Need a "new look." Need more "energy."
That can only be seen as a bit of a shot at Werth and/or possibly Ibanez.
Now I'm 100-percent sure Werth is gone.
PS to Steveo: Francisco does NOT have Werth's tools.— VicM - Got to let these guys have one more year. This team was built to contend through next year. After that????? Anyone's guess. But it has been a fun ride so far.— hawk18
- new energy should mean new manager -- the strategically challenged one single handedly lost both games 4 and 6 simply by having Ben Fransisco hit in both games in late innings in wrong spot (in game 4, when he should have pinch hit Ibanez against righty, in game 6 when he simply needed a non-srikeout with man on 3rd 2 outs and had Sweeney on bench) ...not to mention the 2 dozen other clearly erroneous moves of omission and commision (e.g., non-bunting)— warbiscuit
- Cliff Lee you are NOT the man!!!!! Roy Halladay is.— finngov
- Keep Werth.....other wise you lose a really good outfielder and MOSTLY a qualtiy right handed bat behind Howard.....he goes, Ryan get nothing to hit as their are no good right hand batters out there.....Trade Ibanez and all the drek that did not get off the bench and use the money to sign Jayson...— nuggett
- cut Amaro, Manuel .... figure out how to void the Howard contract .. otherwise wait til 2016 when the last of these overpaid losers can be replaced— warbiscuit
- Don't resign Werth, save the money
Not because we don't want him back but because a back loaded contract will cripple us in 2 years and we'll be complaining about Jayson Werth's contract instead of Raul Ibanez's
Move Utley to the 5th spot in the lineup
JRoll
Victorino
Polanco
Howard
Utley
Ibanez
Dom Brown/Ben Fran
Chooch
lineup still has pop and we bring the speed back to the top of the order with Polly batting behind it he's more likely to put the ball in play and have them run a little, might be a little lefty heavy when Brown plays but he'd only being in a platoon spot anyway so we'd want more lefties in
use the money to go after Scott Downs to sure up the bullpen
team won 97 games with injuries and the bad years from the starts
Everyone gets on Doc's workout plan to stay healthy and maybe you get a MVP year from 1 player and we're right there at around 90 wins again, get hot in the playoffs (08 Phillies, 2010 Giants) than parade down Broad Street— hit n run - I think the Phillies are 2 years too late to trade Rollins and most of their guys are un-tradeable due to crazy contracts except for Chooch. I think its time to move Utley. His career has been on a steep downward slide for the last 3 years, he is a butcher in the field, can't stay healthy but has tremendous brand cache and a reasonable contract. I hope they rue their decision last year to go cheap and pass on Beltre and go after a similar established slugger. I'd like to see them pick up Chris Heisey for the outfield because he is a young, clutch, high energy, winning ballplayer who has power, a great glove, a great arm, speed and is an excellent bunter. I predict he will be a better than Victorino in a few years just because he seems smarter, can bunt, and has more power, but he's the same type of player- a high energy action magnet- and the Reds are stocked with young outfielders.— jtj06
- In Game Six of the NLCS, why was Polanco swinging on a 1-0 count with Jimmy Rollins on first base in a steal situation and a pitcher having control problems on the mound? When is someone going to ask Charlie Manuel that question?— Freedom Fries
I saw that one, too, Freedom Fries, but if you watch the Phillies, you know that Cholly frequently eschews small ball for a bigger inning. Not to mention taht Polanco was probably the best hitter in the major leagues at advancing the runner this season.
The 1988 Dodgers are being channeled through the 2010 Giants. Team bankruptcy is down 1-0.— pigday31- Despite what he said I was pulling for Lee. I cannot stand the Giants, and alway hated them b/c they always seem to beat the Phillies. Lee was only expressing the frustration he still feels in being let go so surprisingly by the Philles. Many on this forum still cannot let the issue go, so do not expect him to let it go. The Giants must be defeated. Gload playing the corner is fine by me but the Phillies still need a rightie bat. I am against long term contract for any player....just remember 2017 (Howard). So I am prepared to let Werth go and get some picks instead. We need an infusion of youth. Look for another SS (I'd kill for a Tulowitzki type SS). Jimmy has served admirably, but his time is nearly gone.— stop2think
- I wish I didn't keep seeing Francoeur's name mentioned as a possible Werth replacement. YUCK! Also interesting results from that "play the GM game yesterday" Chooch is the overwhelming fan fave - over 99% of voters want him to stay - far more than want Howard, Utley or even Halladay to stay. CHOOOOOOCH!
- I agree with Charlie 100%. He's into developing hitters and as much as I like Werth, if he doesn't want to stay with a top-tier team who took a chance on him then he should move on. Dom Brown looks like he'll be terrific and Charlie is excited about him. Besides the Rays will be having a Fire-sale soon. And I can't believe some Moronic fans are calling for Charlie to go. He didn't lose the series the Giants beat them. He made the moves he had to. Bringing in guys cold off the bench is the dumbest I've heard. It came down to a lineup not producing and the Giants were better. But I'll take a manager who guides the Phightins' to 4 Division Titles in a row, 2 NL Pennants in a row and a WS Championship. That's why the rest of the baseball world thinks Phillie fans are boorish. Yes, you're ducks.
Oh by the way "fans", nice touch booing the Giants after they won the Series.— Phillyexp - Victorino really disappointed this season. Usually great defense and dumb hitting stategy. Too impatient and his baserunning left a lot to be desired. How about offering Vic and Kendrick to the dodgers for Matt Kemp? He needs a change of scenery and has 5 tools. If they can't get Kemp, Matt Diaz may be an interim solution until Dom Brown develops and can take over an outfield spot. He is a right handed bat with a good average and has enough pop to be dangerous. We need a right handed bat to replace Werth, because he is going to get overpaid by some team like the Red Sox.— OBLawyer
- Charlie's has to come up with a couple of new lines next year. He can't keep telling them to "relax" and and have fun all the time. Howard took him too literally. Most of the team was MIA with RISP.— Dull
- I am really tired of hearing how we should have kept Cliff Lee and how dumb chuck is. Anyone who has followed the Phils for more than a couple of years knows tha Chas has had the best run of any manager since 1950. He did get outmanaged in the Blanton game,but you cry babies must not have been around when we had to suffer thru Travis Lee,Jeffries, Lieby, Wolfie and all of the overpaid under achieving babies. This run is better than the 1976-84 run. After that we had one year '93 with Fregosi's wild bunch and then were we were worse than the Pirates. Jay Johnstone told me at a game the year Britehouse Park opened that Charlie would be a great manager and he was right.
- If we get Matt Diaz it would really help keep fans from running onto the field during the game.— dasher
- Sign Werth at any cost. We desperately need him in the five hole to "protect" Ryan Howard. Without him , Howard will not see any hittable pitches. Oh, wait. If he should see a hittable pitch....HE COULDN'T HIT IT ANYWAY !!!!!! Any pitch to #6 is a strike out pitch . Where is Greg Gross ? Is he still on the payroll ?— jeromie
Could it be that Charlie is not entirely sold on investing heavily in Werth? His words indicate he wouldn't be all that sorry to see him go. And if you read between the lines, he seems to be advocating for pitching help (bullpen) and would settle for something other than an All-Star in RF.— jpk- I'm no fan of Frenchy (the guy was a Brave and a Met for the love of Pete), but he may perform well in this lineup. He has a cannon for an arm, too, so he would deter runners from trying to take the extra base.— jpk
- We need right handed power - if jason is not signed; there needs to be some real shuffling done... really hope Ryan get's some "good" hitting coaching during off season and in Spring Training... deplorable...— M60tanker
- I dont believe the Phils have a "core" anymore.Rollins and Utley have seen their better days. Injuries and slumps dont explain their offensive woes anymore,its that split second loss of bat speed and eye hand coordination.This also explains the loss of power Utley has experienced.
Howard seems to have lost his power stroke,misteriously(PED)and his appearance at the eagles game the day of a big game dtill bothers me.
I banez just hit with the consistancy or power he did before ,so to call this a an intact "core" is just plain wrong.
i think the phils need to get something for Rollins and Utley while they can and and while they still can blame injuries for their decline.Also a couple good players for howrd right now would be a plus.— gardner 
People on this board who criticize Lee for his comments yesterday are acting absurd. What exactly was he supposed to say? That he gets a chubby everytime he thinks about how he was treated here? Give me a break.— Sam Crow
if players perform the manager's a genius, They fail and he's "strategically challenged"...- The team can only contend, not win it all, as it is now constructed. Werth will leave because Boras will play hardball with the Phils so that's problem #1 to fix. I'd look to move Rollins (keep Valdez) and Kendrick as pieces in trades to pickup a replacement for Werth and possibly some bullpen help. Guys like Romero ($4.5 mil), Dobbs ($2 mil?) and Moyer ($9 mil) come off payroll so the Phils have that as a minimum savings. Amaro, in conjunction with Gillick, should be able to get the rest of the moves with some savvy trades. They need to start playing small ball and have #1 thru #3 get on base.— 1republican
- I have been one of the few saying Amaro did the right thing in moving Lee and picking up Halladay, and then Oswalt, because it put us in a much better position in 2011. After watching Lee last night, I DEFINITELY feel that way. He's a great pitcher but that was a big stage last night and he wasn't bad, he was really bad. None of our top three had anywhere near that bad of a start this post-season. In fact,they were all solid, or better.— eman
- We can assume Werth played his last game as a Phillie this past weekend, which means the team needs to find a RH power hitter via trade or free agency, which won’t be offering many options other than Werth. Like I said the other day, the most tradable guy is Utley, because he's still has value. Since 2007 his BA has been in a steady dive: .332 in 2008 to .275 this year. (Can he be another Dale Murphy or Lance Parish?) That's almost a 60-point drop. And his defense has not improved, especially his throwing. Have you notice how he stops for a while when fielding a grounder and the throws? Thinking too much probably. (Knoblauch of Steve Sax anyone?) Last year he made 12 errors in 155 games (774 ch). This year he made 11 errors in 115 games (586 ch). That's not counting the horrible defense he displayed during the playoffs this year. Only the Brave’s Conrad played worst. It would be nice to trade Howard and/or Ibañez if there are any takers and/or the Phillies are willing to eat a significant chunk of their contracts. But then RAJ would have less money to add pieces. By trading Utley and his contract and the departure of Werth, you can go after Beltre and move Polanco to second. You solve two problems, get the RH power guy, who also hits for avg, and break the LH hitters in the middle of the lineup, which for the last two playoffs series had been a problem. You also improve defensively having three GG in the infield, Rollins being the other. With the untested Brown most likely to play a bigger role next season and Ibañez most likely to keep declining, that would be even a bigger problem. Then you can add another RH bat to get into the outfield mix. The other trading option is Victorino, but he offers you insurance at the lead off spot in case Jimmy keeps having leg problems.— EL Zorro
Is Dominick play winter ball yet? He can be really good but he needs to face good pitching and ****learn how to see the ball off the bat and choose a good rout.— KINGOFZED- Please explain to me why we want to pay $15-$17? million a year for a guy who hit .186 with RISP??
Went 0 - 35 in one stretch!! With RISP and 2 outs, I would bet money Werth was below .125. Come on folks, this was his career year, and he didn't hit his weight with RISP.— sportsreader - Last time I checked, God (I mean Cliff Lee) had a LOSING record in regular season games with Texas.............SOMEBODY beat him......I'll take Big Roy anytime— recGUY
- Diaz is already a folk hero here. And a better tackler than Asante Samuel (though his cover skills are lacking).— ejc527
- With Rollins on first base and one out in the 9th inning of Game Six, you don't want Polanco to ground out to try to advance the runner. Wilson was wild and had just walked Rollins. He walked Utley after Polanco grounded out. Polanco had a 1-0 count and had no business swinging in that situation except to swing and miss so Rollins could try to steal a base. If Polanco had just kept the bat on his shoulder, Ryan Howard would have probably come up with the bases loaded and one out. Then, if Ryan Howard couldn't get the job done, at least Jayson Werth would have a shot to be a hero with two outs. The bottom line is Wilson Valdez was hitting well at the end of the season and hit .333 in the NLDS. Valdez deserved to start in place of the injured Polanco.— Freedom Fries
- This team allowed themselves to believe in the hype, basically thinking they could throw their gloves and bats on the field and expect to win the games, that is why some change is needed....those kind of things are unacceptable....Dear 25mil dollar man, would it kill you to listen to someone and learn to better yourself with left handed pitchers!?!?!? I mean with just a little effort you could make things a lot easier on the team and yourself....I dont care if you lay down a bunt every once in awhile, make the other team play you honest and not 8 guys this side of 2nd base!!!!!!!!— CROSSI
- NO Jeff Francoeur. He flunked in NY and Atlanta and will also in Texas eventually.— mk
- Lack of energy starts in left field. Gload for Werth - a five tool playere - better to go after Swisher (Yanks). S/Sill be an issue - Valdez great relief - J-Roll gone as starter unless winter exercise program works -— hlc10
- Hello Philly Brothers!This year,you need to remember to chill after a lucky giant freak.Think 5 Pennants "2011+"as we had so many key guys hurt this year.Werth is gotta stay!Remember Raul did have 2 surgeries.
Also this year every team feared the Fighten Phily's!We do have some bait!Kendrick,Blanton,Francisco and more.We have the No 1 big 3 Starters.Bullpen needs a couple of heaters!If not spring training better be the first step of total work.Even with the A list Guys.As it seemed 1st inning runs being in a hole is lack of!Hitting and the basic's were bad.Teams back pitched us,with garbage ball.Are coaches overcame a injured season to make that run.Starting line up together was how many games together?1 Major non-Excuse is lets Get a DH A real one!No excuse to have a losing record to AL.Also Howard was a shot!He worked hard we had no one at the time.Amaro's bad showed with no Werth Money!There's no excuse to pay if you played!Sellouts!!How many in a Row?So don't be shocked if we win more then 100 gms.Lopes! Great Coach with needed help!Bunts not Blunts!If your angry?about this year?You are an Addict to!!Lol! Its a Game!!Enjoy It!!— Goldcoast Tony - Needing"more energy" sounds to me like a shot at Utley and Howard more than Werth: at least he hit some times at critical points!— cocogirl
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