In this case, there's no question Manuel made the right call
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In this case, there's no question Manuel made the right call
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
There is no question Charlie Manuel made the right move last night in removing Kyle Kendrick from a 3-0 game for a pinch-hitter in the top of the ninth inning. Sure, the Phillies lost 4-3. But you can't blame Manuel.
Rationale?
1) In his first two starts of the season, Kendrick threw 107 pitches total. Last night, he threw 108 pitches through eight innings.
2) Due up in the ninth inning were Martin Prado, Chipper Jones and Brian McCann, who had combined for the only four hits that Kendrick had allowed on the night, including a double by Jones in his previous AB. In their careers of Kendrick, McCann and Jones were a combined 13-for-34 with three home runs, four doubles and six walks off of Kendrick.
3) The most pitches Kendrick had ever thrown in a major league game was 113. That came on June 25, 2008 at Oakland. Kendrick also allowed four hits in eight scoreless innings that day. Manuel also took him out after the eighth inning (in that case, with a 4-0 lead). The Phillies won, though, so you might not remember.
4) Kendrick was due up in the top of the ninth.
On top of all of that, the Phillies entered the season with an opportunity to find out if Ryan Madson could succeed as a regular closer. If Brad Lidge comes back healthy and effective, they might not need that knowledge. But better to get it now and not need it than to be in a position of trial-and-error after the trade deadline.
Manuel made the call. The Phillies lost. But correlation does not equal causation.
In this case, the call was the correct one.
I am old school. Starting pitchers are starters for a reason. They are usually the best pitchers on the team. Relievers are not the best pitchers on the team and that is why they only pitch limited innings. You never know what you get with a reliever and starters are more consistent. Yes, KK should have finished the game. Big mistake by Manual and I see it every year. The manager loses at least 10 ball games a year because of pitching decisions. Go with your starters, stop losing games for the team!!— joeynick- move was right— Joe Gonnelli
- David, you quoted Charlie as saying, 'Our bullpen's been a concern.' ... If that's the case, why break what doesn't need fixing until it needs to be repaired? ... Shouldn't Kendrick had been afforded the same luxury as Hamels on Sunday? ... Hamels had retired 11 straight batters entering the 9th inning, but was still given one batter before being lifted ... And the Phillies were trailing at the time ... This game is not that hard, but managers feel the need to constantly make themselves look like geniuses.— PhightinPhil
This team needs to address the closer issue if they want to advance in the Fall. And the answer isn't Lidge. Madson is good as a setup man, but we need more outside help here.— burholme- Well, I agree that a "closer'' should protect a 3 run lead. But the problem is we don't have a closer. Madson blew a few saves last year rehearsing for the job and so far this year he's not showing he's made up to be a closer. I don't know how much more time Charlie needs to find out, Murph. I believe you develop closers in the minors not in the big show.— EL Zorro
- I'm sick and tired of hearing about pitch counts. When I was a kid watching baseball, pitchers such as Spahn, Burdette, Roberts, Koufax, Drysdale, I could go on and on.....but pitch counts were never mentioned in the broadcast. The pitcher pitched and if he was good enough he went the full nine innings. What has happened in the last 50 years. Let's go back to old school and see what happens, such as last night. If Kendrick blows it in the 9th then we would be saying why didn't Charlie bring in someone to close. However, we will never know, but should this situation come up again, which I'm sure it will, see what happens letting the starter to go nine. We know that Halladay can do it, and probably will on many occasion's, but what Kendrick did last night was great only to be blown by bring in Madsen. Let's go nine and we'll be fine,.— thomasg
- Manuel did the right thing with the wrong guy. It has become painfully evident that Madson doesn't have the mindset needed to be a closer. He has the stuff, but for whatever reason, he appears to pitch not to lose rather than to shut down the opposition, especially when he's used in the closer's role. That being said, Manuel is in a tough position---who should he use???? In chatting with a buddy this afternoon I made the offhand suggestion that he use Roy Halladay on the middle day between his starts when he probably throws hard for 25-30 pitches. Halladay, having thrown as many complete games as anyone in the past ten seasons, clearly has (among many other attributes) the mindset needed to close out games (as e did in the 2-1 win at Houston last week). That begs the question of whom to use on the days Halladay doesn't pitch before and immediately following his starts. Right now, no onme comes to mind---the Phillies have a BIG problem.— john newlin
- It's CHARLIE. You knucklehead.
- Enough of the "Old School" argument. This is 2010, this is an era of agents, high price starters, even higher priced closers, pitch counts, five man rotations, long toss. Pitchers and their agents want to maximize their careers to make buckets of cash and thus want their pitches limited in number, want to start every fifth day and are trained that way in the minors as well as the majors. For those posters who point to Ubaldo Jimenez and his 128 pitches, as Ricky Bo said right after the game, look at his velocity the next game, far too many pitches. Remember, Hamels pitched more innings than ever two years ago and Happ more than ever last year; how has that worked out? Hamels had arm trouble last season and Happ this season. As for making them pitch on fumes, not going to happen.— chuckw
- I just saw an alarming stat on DNL about Madson. He has blown 22 saves in 38 saves opp. Wow! I knew it was bad, but not as bad.— EL Zorro
- Why is this even worth discussing? You can't get three outs in the ninth inning? What's Chollie supposed to pitch his starters nine innings per game? The bullpen stinks. And the walk hurt Madson just as much as the homers.— jason_VA
Comment removed.- Amaro neglected the bullpen this offseason and this is what happens. Madson is not a closer and lidge may be done. They will not go to WS unless we get help in the bullpen. This bullpen is very weak and will not be able to carry team.— btsucceed
- No I disagree. Closers are overrated except Rivera and the 2008 Lidge. I love Charlie and this was the one time he made a mistake like every top manager does. I don't care that Kendrick threw 108 pitches and the guys got hits off of him coming up - he also got them out!!!. He was getting guys out and he should've stayed out there until he got in trouble - and that's usually by walking someone. No, it was a bad move by a great Manager. I'm with you Charlie but you made a mistake this time - like nobody else ever does so that's what ridculous about this discussion. Go Phightins'!!! It's early dudes!!!— Phillyexp
- Would we be having this discussion over pitchers needing to go nine innings if we had Papelboum? Rivera? Brian Wilson? Heath Bell? K-Rod? Lidge of two years ago? Even Ryan Franklin? The issue is not pitchers needing to go nine innings, the issue is the lack of a closer and no real preparation by Amaro and the front office to have a back-up plan if Lidge was not available.— chuckw
