A right-handed hitter who might be worth the farm?
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A right-handed hitter who might be worth the farm?
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
In an earlier post, we concluded that Hunter Pence is not a "high on base percentage guy" or a "power hitter."
But here's a guy who could fit into both categories. . .
White Sox right fielder Carlos Quentin has not seen his name pop up in the trade deadline rumor mill very often. That's probably because the White Sox are just 3.5 games out of first place and figure to be a strong contender for the American League Central crown.
But the tireless Ken Rosenthal has a new blog post up that suggests the White Sox could be looking to trim payroll over the next five days. And guess who he mentions as a possible trade target?
That's right. Carlos Quentin.
The Phillies were briefly linked to Quentin by a national report during the winter meetings, although nothing ever came of it. We would find out later that the Phillies had bigger fish to sign.
Quentin at the time was something of a question mark. In fact, he still is.
He has suffered from a variety of injuries, and he is not regarded as a strong defensive player. The 131 games he appeared in last season were a career high.
But the man can hit baseballs hard. And he can do it from the right side of the plate.
Quentin is hitting .268 with a .360 on base percentage and .525 slugging percentage this season. He already has 20 home runs in 339 at-bats, to go with 27 doubles, 62 RBI and 42 runs scored. He has played right field regularly for the White Sox, serving as designated hitter in just 11 games. Critical to his success this season has been his ability to hit left-handed pitching. In 2009 and 2010, Quentin hit .213 and .211 against lefties, with a total of 11 home runs in 203 at-bats. This year, though, he is hitting .278/.392/.544 with six home runs in 79 at-bats against lefties.
It's hard to imagine the White Sox trading Quentin, particularly since they have a moveable pitcher in Edwin Jackson who makes $3 million more than Quentin's $5.05 million salary.
But Kenny Williams isn't the most predictable general manager in the world. Maybe he is hearing the type of haul the Astros are hoping to get from Pence. And maybe he is floating a trial balloon on the chance that one of the several teams looking for a right-handed bat will give him an offer he can't refuse.
You have to think that convincing the White Sox to give up Quentin would require a package starting with Domonic Brown. But Quentin is a bona fide middle of the order hitter. And his current salary is manageable. And he does not become a free agent until after next season.
With Paul Konerko in the twilight of his career and the designated hitter as an option, the White Sox could be intrigued by a player like Jonathan Singleton. And every team would be interesting in the type of pitching prospects the Phillies have at Clearwater.
Would Quentin be worth a package of Brown, Singleton and Cosart? Especially considering his defensive limitations, injury history, and reverse righty/lefty splits? Would such a deal be enough for the White Sox, who would probably like to shed their payroll without shedding their chances at contending this season? Would a right-handed power bat like John Mayberry who can contribute in a reserve role this season sweeten the deal at all? Would the Phillies be able to engage the Cardinals in a three-way deal in which Colby Rasmus eventually lands with the White Sox?
Lots of questions. Few answers. Hey, it's the trade deadline. But it's out there.
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Comments (65)
They should have got him in the off season....he'd look great behind Howard.— bearsfriend- No.— Philly Fan in Kuwait
- No, nobody's worth Brown, Cosart, AND Singleton. Ok, MAYBE Matt Kemp. But that's it.— Mike P
- No, nobody's worth Brown, Cosart, AND Singleton. Ok, MAYBE Matt Kemp. But that's it.— Mike P
- Brown, Singleton, and Cosart ... we're not talking about Willie Mays here. That's a better package than they gave up for Lee or Doc and crazy to even suggest for Quentin.— CoolColeMan
- What about David Ortiz? He sounds good.— Ace-Philadelphia
- Agree with Mike P. Not Pence, not Beltran, not Upton, not Quentin. Cosart, Singleton, and Brown are all top 50 prospects in baseball. The Phillies have the number 5 system in baseball (according to Keith Law). We are only getting older so why would you trade #1, #2, and #3 of a top 5 system for a guy who is perennially injured. Keep in mind that this team will stay competitive over the next 5-10 year because of how cheap these kids will be when they come through the system. I can't fathom how a baseball writer would even float that ridiculous package out there for a nobody.— robm0202
- I have been saying Carlos Quentin for well over a month now. Amaro should have gotten Michael Young during the winter when he wanted out of Texas. How good would he have looked behind Howard all season? In 5 days we'll know if Amaro hits a Grand Slam or he just puts down a sacrifice bunt.— The Marco Islander
- I don't think there's any way the Phillies give up Brown/Cosart/Singleton. But you have to keep in mind that the White Sox are not hard-pressed to trade Quentin. And it doesn't sound like the Astros are hard-pressed to give up Pence. So you aren't just trying to match the value of the player, you are trying to convince another team that it is worth their while to trade that player. It's why very few blockbuster deals ever get done. It's why the Phillies didn't trade for Quentin this offseason. You need to keep in mind that Singleton and Cosart are still in A-Ball. So there is a lot of risk there. There's a good chance neither of them pans out. Teams value the Devil they know far more than the Devils they don't. The White Sox are a contending team in a big market. There is a good chance they aren't going to give away a significant piece of their team for a couple of players who haven't seen or thrown a pitch at Double-A and are at least two or three years away from the majors (Cosart/Singleton). Deals like this usually require a major-league ready piece AND a top prospect. The Red Sox shipped Justin Masterson (major league ready piece) and top pitching prospect Nick Hagadone to the Indians for Victor Martinez in mid-2009. Quentin is not as consistent as Martinez. But that's the realm you are looking at, particularly since GMs like Kenny Williams know that there aren't many right-handed bats like Quentin out there. The selling team starts with a huge ask (Brown/Cosart/Singleton), the buying team starts with a more reasonable ask (Cosart/Singleton/B-Prospect) and the two sides either meet in the middle, one side caves, or they go their separate ways. Complicating the Phillies' effort is they don't have any near-major-league ready pitching a la Carrasco or Drabek. Those guys are safer than A-Ball guys. And if you are going to put together an offer based around A-Ball guys, you are probably going to have to give up more. That's just the way it works.— David_Murphy
- Biggest mid-season acquisition for the '06 Cardinals: Ronnie Belliard and Jorge Sosa. For the 07 Red Sox: Eric Gagne. For the '08 Phils: Joe Blanton. For the '09 Yankees: Eric Hinske. For the '10 Giants: Cody Ross. There's no relationship between winning the World Series and grossly overpaying for a star player at the trade deadline. The Yanks traded for Bobby Abreu in '06 and lost to Detroit in the ALDS. The Braves traded for Mark Teixeira in '07 and didn't make the playoffs. The Dodgers traded for Manny in '08 and didn't make it to the World Series. The Phils dealt for Cliff Lee in '09 and lost in the World Series and for Roy Oswalt last year and lost in the NLCS. It seems like making a big deadline deal is a good way to not win the World Series. — phillyl0
- Get either Pence or Quentin. Phils have a great chance to win a 2nd Championship in 4 years. Halladay and Lee won't be around forever. All 3 guys can be replaced. Singleton is behind Howard. Quentin and Pence are better than Brown and Cosart will not be a major league player in at least 3 years, if at all. As a fan, I care about 2011 not 2014.— zeke128
- Why not add Rizotti from Reading? He hits the cover off the ball, just can't play defense and would be perfect as a DH in the AL.
If I have to trade Brown, Singleton and Cosart I am calling the Dodgers and asking for Kemp!— dankil13 - Did someone else write this blog post for Murph? Brown, Singleton and Cosart for Carlos Quentin? That sounds like the kind of ridiculous thing Gelb or Brookover would suggest. Quentin is a .254 career hitter that has had more than 87 RBI's once in his career....he's hitting only .268 this year and as you mention, he barely passed the Mendoza line against lefties the last 2 seasons. The Phillies wouldn't even include Brown in a trade for Halladay and you think they'd include him in a package with their best 2 prospects for Carlos Freakin Quentin??? Come on, Murph. Brown will be a corner OF here for the next 6-8 years or more...they aren't trading him for an OF rental player, even if the guy has 1 more season remaining. They have the best record in the majors, they aren't mortgaging the farm for a slight upgrade. There is no player available for trade that they would give up Brown and Cosart for....probably very few guys available that would warrant a package with Cosart. All of this needs to be put in perspective....we have the best record in baseball and will be getting Polanco and Oswalt back very soon. If there is a good deal to be made for a significant upgrade, then that's one thing...but we don't need to make a deal just for the sake of making a deal and we don't need to just shuffle up the roster. No reason to give away the farm at all here.— JimG
- Keep Worley at all cost!!— philsfansince1946
- Wrong, trade Worley while his stock is at its highest. Sell high, sell high, sell high.— UncleEddie
- KEMP!— DONDEN31
- Is getting rid of possible future starters going to bring you a significant upgrade over Brown/Mayberry? Better be significant or "stand pat".— Metzies
- Worley has to stay. He's got his place solidified down the stretch and into next season. Agree with everyone on here, the asking price is too much. Singleton and a single A pitcher not named Cosart. That's it. See what that brings, and if it's not enough, don't make the trade.— beegal99
- Would Quentin be worth a package of Brown, Singleton and Cosart?
No.
— mikemaddog - I think Vance Worley is the Phillies best trade chip, he increased his value again tonight...while I would love to keep Worley, I see the Phillies need to use him in a trade for Beltran...Phillies have to keep Beltran out of the Braves and Giants roster...Beltran is not just a plus for the Phillies, he is a big minus for the Braves and Giants...and yet another plus, Worley pitching FOR the Mets against the Braves down the stretch— danielboyer
- The ONLY WAY Ruben should EVER consider trading D Brown is for Matt Kemp.— MOJR
- Soory Murph, but you reached with this one. That is not a deal I make, I doubt Ruben is that desparate for it either......maybe just another red herring floated to throw off the Braves or Giants, Murph????— Mark1npt
- Murph, are you serious??? 3 top prospects for Carlos Quentin?? Did you lose a bet and were forced to propose this trade by Matt Gelb?? Wow. You wouldn't do that for pence, who's actually a good player, but you would for Quentin because he's hitting a lusty .275 against lefties? One word. WOW. Sober up Dave.— Sewellmatt
- All I am doing is laying out possible scenarios. Like I wrote, I do not think Quentin will be dealt, because it would seem to require the type of package that no team will part with. If the White Sox are willing to trade Quentin for a package of Singleton and lesser prospects, it would seem to be a no-brainer. But the White Sox are likely floating his name out there just to see if somebody might bite on a blockbuster package. I've said repeatedly I think the best course of action is going to be to focus on lesser-tier bats like Willingham or Ludwick or maybe even a complimentary piece like Reed Johnson or a reliever. Those are the kind of guys who aren't going to require parting with significant prospects. And I wouldn't trade Brown for Pence OR Quentin. Again, just throwing out the type of package it would probably take for such a deal to get done.— David_Murphy
- How does Carlos Quentin improve the Phils over John Mayberry Jr? He doesn't. If given the chance to play as often as Quentin, Mayberry would probably have better offensive numbers. What's more, Mayberry is an outstanding defensive player which Quentin is not. If Quentin does not improve the Phils over Mayberry, he surely won't improve the Phils more than Hunter Pence, which would cost the Phils the same as Pence, and he surely wouldn't improve the Phils more than Michael Bourn or Melky Cabrera, both of whom would cost the Phils considerably less. You can add Quentin to the same list as Beltran, Upton, Willingham, Wigginton, Francoeur, Diaz, Ludwick, etc., and then you can promptly dispose of the list because it won't do the Phils any good. If Murphy wants to stir up some debate, dialogue or controversy, he should try the Phils reacquiring Jason Werth and $60 million from the Nationals for prospects. That, at least, would make more sense than some of the names that have appeared on this website.— onthebucks
- So all it takes is giving Mayberry more ABs and he'll produce like Quentin? You're comparing a career minor leaguer to a player who had 36 HRs and 100 RBIs a couple years ago. Not saying I would trade Brown for Quentin but your argument doesn't hold water. — samtheman
- Mayberry has never had the opportunity to show what he is capable of doing in the major leagues if given the number of at bats in a season Carlos Quentin had in 2008 when he had 100 RBIs. By the way, Quentin has had nowhere near that number of RBIs since. My arguments that Mayberry would be a much better hitter if made an everyday player and that Quentin at his best would not be worth Brown, Singleton and Cosart in a trade hold a lot more water than your objection.
- Hey Murph.....I've been stating Carlos Quinten for two weeks...and now YOU come up with this? Geesh. And no...the Phillies won't give up Brown/Singleton/Cossart for Carlos Quinten. But Brown and Kendrick? Maybe. I've stating that Carlo Quinten will be a Phillie by Sunday, but Nooooooooo.... RAJ has been throwing out the Beltran/Pense stuff to soften the turf on demands for Quinten.— drhoffman
- That's a package for an injury-prone player with limited defensive abilities? Umm... I'll pass. So would Ruben, I think. The White Sox have an emerging need at 1B as Konerko ages. Singleton is the carrot to dangle here, not D. Brown...— Doctor D
- Would anyone do Brown, Singleton, Cosart for Pence and Bell?
No way MLB ever approves a deal that sends Kemp out of LA.— JoeinSouthPhilly - OMG lighten up Francises!!
We have the best record in baseball and we are getting Polanco and Oswalt next week. All we needs is a LH reliever specialist and maybe trade for Jim Thome it the waiver period in August to be a LH bomber off the bench and possible World Series DH.
I have faith that Mayberry can put up Pat Burrel like numbers today. D Brown is 1-2 years away from putting up better numbers than Werthless. We are fine!!!
We have better pitching and hitting than the Giants did last year (or this year for that matter) and they won it all.
BTW Worley has a way better mound presence than Happ.
I have faith!!!— bluejfk - David, you must be kidding? If not I have to question your sanity. Giving up Brown, plus the top 2 prospects in the phils system is way too much for this guy. It's way to much for Hunter Pence also and I think he's the better player. I have no problem giving up Brown and one of the baby aces (not named Cosart) plus another decent but not top prospect. If these guys expect more, tell them good luck and go pound sand.— scubapro
- Murph, you seem like a really nice guy, you really do. But you have no idea what you are talking about and I think you know it, and are trying to now defend yourself. If you think there is no way the White Sox trade Quentin, then why are you throwing out fantasy baseball proposals? Isn't this supposed to be real news, not armchair gm chat?— carlosbeltran
Comment removed.- I agree Kemp is the one to go after Brown, singleton, cosart be damned. Go and get Kemp, go to Ruben— Slocs
- Baltimore has about the worst pitching in MLB. Why not try swapping Brown, Cosart and maybe Aumont for Adam Jones. He's young and a solid defender and right hand bat and I think he would thrive on this team. I like Brown and if his defense were any better I'd say keep him, but...— Cameiros
- I agree with Mike p a little. Matt kemp is the way to go if your going to give up the farm. But I would really think about Pence too. You don't want the Giant's to end up with him. No Quentin.— duncan2288
- This is inciting riot!— cedara
- If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it. This trade talk exists simply because people need to fill space or have nothing better to write or say - evidence of what little value their alternative communications must have.— Odayman
- Kemp would be a terrific surprise. No to Beltran, Quentin, Willingham, and Frenchy. Yes to Pence. GEt rid of Brown while the gettin is good.— stop2think
- You forgot the wacky analysis that projects lousy numbers. You know, like the one you did for Hunter Pence yesterday.— younged
- Writer, D. Murphy, we don't need another right fielder with defensive liabilities. Murphy just doesn't get it when it comes to H. Pence.— misterhman
- I wouldn't do the trade either, but do you guys realize that Cosart had been hit around like a Piñata lately? Not a good sign for a top-pitching prospect. In July he had 2-3 record with an whooping 8.04 ERA and opponents are hitting .330. In his last 4 starts he has pitched 14 innings, allowing 17 runs on 25 hits. For the season he has a mediocre record as well, going 8-8 with a 4.19 ERA, with a whip of 1.31 and only 75 Ks in 101 innings (not good for supposedly a power arm) while permitting 50 BB. Again, couldn't care less for high ceiling tags. That's for the expert in BA and ESPN. Meanwhile, Julio Rodriguez is leading the team with a 13-6 record, with a whip of 1.09 (also tops), opponents are hitting under de Mendoza line against him (.194) and has 113 Ks in 115 innings. So much for not having great stuff. Oh, for the month of July, when things started to heat up, he's 5-0, with a 1.76 ERA, 32 Ks in 30 innings and opponents hit .183 against him. This is coming after having a hell of season last year, especially in the second half where he was player of the month of August and pitching pretty well in the Puerto Rican Winter League. Not bad for a 20 year old. To me he should be more untouchable than the so-called top-pitching prospect. But that’s just me.— EL Zorro
- Keith Law just ranked Cosart as the #17 prospect in baseball. Cosart has a 97-99 mph fastball, a plus curve, and a changeup that he's still developing that has the potential to become a plus pitch. He's having trouble wielding his stuff at this point in the year, but keep a few things in mind. First of all, he's only 21 years old. Second, he's already 30 IP above his previous career high, so at this point, they're just trying to stretch out his arm to give him the feel of pitching for a full year. Finally, they're working to smooth out his mechanics. Given these things, it's not surprising that he'd give up some runs. Cosart's stuff is much better than Rodriguez's, and he has all of the workings of a #1 starter, assuming he can stay healthy. — Mike P
- Zorro -- Interesting that the object of your affection has switched from Nick Hernandez (this time last year, you promsied us, "that guy is going to be special") to Julio Rodriguez. The scouting community is in agreement that Cosart is among the best pitching prospects in baseball and that JRod is a marginal prospect, if he's a prospect at all. Maybe they haven't read the box scores the way you have. — phillyl0
Pence is a good fielder with a gun and a much better hitter. If the Phils had signed Beltre to play 3rd base this year they'd already have their power bat to protect Ryan (although I think he recently got hurt, not sure how bad). Quentin's numbers over his career are nothing to shout about especially since he can't field or throw. Pence is the guy. Actually an upgrade over Werth even.— oldfriar- Pence or nobody.— krammar
- Don't care about what Keith Law says. He probably didn't make his high school team anyway. I wonder what he said about Gregg Maddux and Tom Glavine. Like I said, don't care much about high ceiling and upside. The minors and the majors for that matter are littered with guys with powerful arms that some waited for them to develop. At the end of the day, it's about results.— EL Zorro
- Ex Phil Marlon Byrd has solid numbers, bats RH and plays good D,— NewMick314
- All the newspaper writers are idiots!!! Except for a player like Matt Kemp, no player is worth Brown, Cosart and Singleton. And those 3 would not be enough for Kemp.— cheffred
- If Brown is more valuable than Pence, not sure why would need all those sweeteners for Quentin.
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2011/7/27/2294866/domonic-brown-is-more-valuable-than-hunter-pence-straight-up#comments— schmenkman - @Zorro...Rodriguez is the most mature 20 year old I've ever seen...really crafty...but you have to remember he's outperforming other 20-21 year olds...Pettibone,Dave Buchanon(Lakewood),Tyler Cloyd, all are similar...The scouts base the pitcher's "stuff" on a projection to get major league hitters out..that's hy it's not an exact science...My personal favorites in the system is Trevor May( sic curveball)...and Jesse Biddle (great makeup)...Health and physical development will play roles as well.— bearsfriend
Not one prospect Amaro has traded has proved to be a productive player yet. Not a one, and that includes Happ who I might add was regarded as high as Worley. Give them whoever they want as long as we get what we want.— Norf77- I'd rather have Francoeur (waaaaaaaaay better defense) than Quentin, but in reality, unless it's Pence or Kemp where's the improvement over what we have now and the next couple years?— IdahoMoose
- I'd rather have Francoeur (waaaaaaaaay better defense) than Quentin, but in reality, unless it's Pence or Kemp where's the improvement over what we have now and the next couple years?— IdahoMoose
- Vance Worley should be the untouchable in the "prospects". First, no Joe Blanton coming back. Second, how will Oswalt's back stand up the rest of the season. If you trade Worley and something happens to Oswalt, Kendrick is your 4 and some random dude is your 5th. Plus who's to say Hamels wants to come back when his deal is up. He's been ridiculed by fans at times and he's a bonafide Cy Young candidate. Outside of that, I don't care what three prospects, including Brown, have to go to get a high caliber player like Pence (Quentin ain't so good against lefties at this moment and that's what we need to protect Howard). How many titles has this team won in it's existence? Two. If they get Pence or the equivalent, this team should be favored to win this year and probably the next two seasons. Also, this team is raking in cash hand over fist. They are playing with the big boys now and us as fans love it. The owners barring catastrophe will continue to spend (did hear ya Montgomery's comments the other day) as necessary to keep this train rolling. There are always untouchable prospects that become never have beens. Just look at those great prospects in the 90s. Tyler Greene anyone? I'll drive Dom Brown to Houston myself.
- Dom Brown is no longer a prospect. He's already a MLB-average outfieler in only his age 23 season (turns 24 in September).— schmenkman
- I know bear, but Rodriguez played in this past Puerto Rican Winter League against veterans players like Alex Cora and young prospects like Ivan De Jesus Jr, to mention just two off the top of my head, and did pretty good. He also pitched for the Puerto Rican AS team against the Dominicans. I understand about stuff and all, but keep in mind that about 70% of high-ceiling and can't-miss-prospect rated by Baseball America and other experts like Keith Law fail in the major leagues or to get to the majors. For instance, Ryan Howard didn't become a top 50 prospect until 2005 (27th), 4 years after being drafted in 2001 and after hitting 46 HR and knocking in 131 rbi for two teams. I like Rodriguez consistency so far and the fact that he gets better in the second half.— EL Zorro
- "Batting 5th and playing Center Field... Matt Kemp."— Seegs
- UncleEddie is right. Worley has peaked. Dump him now. Add in a prospect and go get this Quentin guy. F Pence. Too pricey.— Poppys
- It's nice of Ken Rosenthal to make a column for you. Maybe with experience over a decade or two , you and the other multiple choice column writer, Matt Geib will blossum before the seed dies.— phineas
- Murph, you are a freakin idiot!!— bigtbone
- Brown isn't going anywhere. We need to young corner OFs next yr. The kid is 23 yrs old and is improving at the plate. The defense wil improve. I would assume that during the season most of his workload right now is trying to improve at the dish which he is doing.
- David- just read your post from the 26th. Sorry I didn't read it earlier. You sure had it right, especially when it came to including the Cardinals in a three-way trade involving Colby Rasmus. Would love to see Quentin in red pinstripes.— mike 1717
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— thomase
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