Gillick's Legacy?
High Cheese: How will history judge Pat Gillick? He signed Brad Lidge, but also gets credit for Tom Gordon. Utley, Dobbs, Moyer, Wert, Myers...all came to Philadelphia under his reign.
Gillick's Legacy?
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
I touched on this in my story today about Greg Dobbs, J.C. Romero and Jayson Werth and their respective contributions to this Phillies team. GM Pat Gillick and the Phillies front office has taken considerable heat from the fan base for some of its higher-profile mistakes, namely the signing of Adam Eaton to a big multi-year deal and the trading of Gavin Floyd for Freddy Gonzalez last offseason. In both cases, you all know the rest of the story.
But for today's story, I looked at three successes of Gillick and his regime: Dobbs, the pinch-hitter extraordinaire, Werth, the new everyday rightfielder, and Romero, who for most of the season was the only lefthander in the bullpen.
It got me thinking: how will history judge Pat Gillick? Granted, the Eaton signing and Garcia trade will be hard for people to overlook. But what if you look back on all the moves the regime has made since Gillick was named general manager in November of 2005?
Here is a list of them. I have bolded the ones that were clearly positive moves, italicized the ones that were clearly negative moves, and left in normal type all of the moves that were neither overwhelming successes nor overwhelming failures.
Feel free to disagree.
Nov. 26, 2005: Acquired Aaron Rowand along with Dan Haigwood and a player to be named later for Jim Thome and cash considerations.
Dec. 3, 2005: Signed pitcher Tom Gordon, formerly of the Yankees, to a three-year contract.
Dec. 12, 2005: Traded Vicente Padilla to the Texas Rangers for a player to be named later (Ricardo Rodriguez)
Jan. 28, 2006: Acquired Arthur Rhodes from the Indians for OF Jason Michaels.
July 28, 2006: Traded 3B David Bell to the Milwaukee Brewers for pitcher Wilfrido Laureano.
Aug. 19, 2006: Acquired pitcher Jamie Moyer and cash from Mariners for pitchers Andrew Barb and Andrew Baldwin.
Aug. 28, 2006: Acquired IF/OF Jeff Conine for a player to be named later.
Oct. 24, 2006: Signed Moyer to a two-year contract extension.
Nov. 18, 2006: Signed IF Wes Helms, formerly of the Marlins, to a two-year contract.
Nov. 30, 2006: Agreed to terms with Adam Eaton.
Dec. 8, 2006: Acquired Freddy Garcia from the White Sox for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.
Dec. 19, 2006: Signed Jayson Werth to a one-year contract.
Jan. 14, 2006: Antonio Alfonseca signed as free agent.
Jan. 16, 2007: Greg Dobbs acquired off waivers.
Jan. 21, 2007: Chase Utley signs seven-year contract extension.
Feb. 1, 2007: Brett Myers signs three-year extension.
April 5, 2007: Acquired pitcher Francisco Rosario from Blue Jays for cash considerations.
April 13, 2007: Claimed pitcher J.D. Durbin off waivers from Red Sox.
June 13, 2007: Purchased contract of pitcher Kyle Kendrick from Reading.
June 23, 2007: Signed J.C. Romero, formerly of the Boston Red Sox.
July 27, 2007: Traded for Tadahito Iguchi from White Sox.
July 30, 2007: Acquired pitcher Kyle Lohse from Cincinnati for pitcher Matt Maloney.
Aug. 10, 2007: Acquired IF/OF Russ Branyan From Indians for cash considerations.
Nov. 7, 2007: Acquired pitcher Brad Lidge and IF Eric Bruntlett from Astros for pitcher Geoff Geary, OF Michael Bourn and 3B Mike Costanzo.
Dec. 20, 2007: Signed OF Geoff Jenkins to a two-year contract.
Dec. 20, 2007: Signed pitcher Chad Durbin to a one-year contract.
Feb. 1, 2008: Signed 3B Pedro Feliz to a two-year contract with a club option for 2010.
Feb. 14, 2008: Agreed to terms with Kris Benson on a minor league contract.
April 2, 2008: Agreed to terms with Rudy Seanez on a one-year contract.
July 7, 2008: Signed pitcher Brad Lidge to a three-year contract.
July 17, 2008: Acquired pitcher Joe Blanton from the Athletics for pitcher Josh Outman, 2B Adrian Cardenas and OF Matt Spencer.
Aug. 7, 2008: Acquired P Scott Eyre from the Cubs for P Brian Schlitter.
Aug. 30, 2008: Acquired OF Matt Stairs from the Blue Jays for a player to be named later.
The Breakdown
Positives: The acquisitions of Rowand, Lidge, Moyer, Werth, Dobbs, Lohse, Romero, Gordon and Chad Durbin all turned out to be marquee moves. The pitchers have combined to go 50-33 with a 3.78 ERA and 84 saves during their time with the Phillies. To put that in perspective, since Gillick arrived in Philly, the club has won 236 games. More than half of them (134) have either been won or saved by Moyer, Lidge, Lohse, Romero, Gordon or Durbin. You might argue the Gordon move, since he has spent a considerable amount of the last two seasons on the disabled list. But he pitched well down the stretch last season, and was a big part of the bullpen's success early this year. Plus, he did save 34 games in 2006. And when you compare his contract -- three years, 18 mil -- to some of the other closers who were free agents in 2005 (B.J. Ryan - Five years, 47 mil; Billy Wagern - Four years, 43 mil) he came at a relative bargain. The Rowand move goes without saying - nobody expected it to pay off like it did. And Werth and Dobbs have been huge pieces of the team's success the past couple seasons.
Negatives: The biggest blotches -- and they are big blotches -- are Garcia, Eaton and Helms. I'll throw Kris Benson in here too. Even though it didn't cost the Phils much, it may have prevented them from some other options they were considering. If they don't sign Benson, maybe they consider Lohse on a one-year deal once his price dropped. I think it's too early to judge guys like Geoff Jenkins, Pedro Feliz and Joe Blanton, though the Jenkins deal isn't looking like a great one right now.
Overall: I'll be interested to see how history judges Gillick's time with the Phillies. Fairly or unfairly, a lot could depend on how the Phils do in the playoffs -- assuming they get there -- this season.
Wow, we traded for Marlins manager Freddy Gonzolez last year? No wonder why the pressure was on Charlie all the time!— GOdouble- I would have to say more bad than good. Thus far I'd have to throw Rhodes, Alfonseca, Blanton, and Feliz in as busts. Jenkins was just your typical bargain bin signing that made no sense. He is a strike out machine, and comes up small nearly every at-bat.— ematusko
- I do disagree with JD Durbin being a definite win, but most importantly... we got rid of our right fielder in 2006 for a half eaten slice of deep dish pizza and a warm miller high life.— MG5
Comment removed.- JD Durbin what has he done? I would not be so quick to judge Blanton Mr. Ematusko. Also Alfonseca helped us for a year. Feliz is by far an improvement over Helms so basically everything Mr. Ematusko said was idiotic and pre-mature.— shayrod
- this team's core was here before he came in - and he has tinkered around. But, the Gavin Floyd trade for a shot-arm Freddy Garcia + not re-signing Kyle Lohse - when you opened the checkbook for Eaton - could be the daggers in this yr's team... imagine if those guys were in our starting 5. Yes, he added good hitters, but he screwed up too. And that is what i'll remember— AllDawk_AllTheTime
- Trading anyone for Freddy Garcia was a mistake, but I don't think you can really count how Gavin Floyd did this year. He showed nothing when he was with the Phillies, and they gave him plenty of chances. Brad Lidge was probably his best high-profile deal. Dobbs & Werth were the best good surprises. It will be interesting when the new GM starts working.— MikeChm
- Excellent blog post. I always defend Gillick because I don't think we get to the playoffs last year with out him and hopefully this year. While the Eaton and Helms signing were horrible mistakes that everyone knew would be horrible at the time, all of the little moves he has done has helped put this team into the playoffs. no way Ed Wade would have pulled any of those moves off. I am very afraid what will happen once Gillick is gone.— Lemur
- How on earth did you leave BOBBY ABREU off the list of moves that Gillick has made???? And how have none of the commenters on this article mentioned this? Gillick has made threemajor deals in his tenure as Phillies GM-- giving away Abreu and Lidle for already-failed prospects, giving away Floyd and Gonzalez for an unexamined right shoulder with a torn labrum attached to Freddy Garcia, and trading slop to Ed Wade for Lidge. He is 1/3. Giving away Padilla was incredibly stupid, and even if they wanted him off the team, they shouldn't have been willing to give him away like that-- it demonstrated that Gillick would cave which came back to bite him when we handed the 2006 AL East crown to the Yankees with Abreu and Lidle and didn't pick up any elite prospects back, all on the basis that we wouldn't compete in 2007 anyway. Also, Geoff Jenkins was obviously meant to be italicized I assume?— MattS
- How on earth did you leave BOBBY ABREU off the list of moves that Gillick has made???? And how have none of the commenters on this article mentioned this? Gillick has made threemajor deals in his tenure as Phillies GM-- giving away Abreu and Lidle for already-failed prospects, giving away Floyd and Gonzalez for an unexamined right shoulder with a torn labrum attached to Freddy Garcia, and trading slop to Ed Wade for Lidge. He is 1/3. Giving away Padilla was incredibly stupid, and even if they wanted him off the team, they shouldn't have been willing to give him away like that-- it demonstrated that Gillick would cave which came back to bite him when we handed the 2006 AL East crown to the Yankees with Abreu and Lidle and didn't pick up any elite prospects back, all on the basis that we wouldn't compete in 2007 anyway. Also, Geoff Jenkins was obviously meant to be italicized I assume?— MattS
- How on earth did you leave BOBBY ABREU off the list of moves that Gillick has made???? And how have none of the commenters on this article mentioned this? Gillick has made threemajor deals in his tenure as Phillies GM-- giving away Abreu and Lidle for already-failed prospects, giving away Floyd and Gonzalez for an unexamined right shoulder with a torn labrum attached to Freddy Garcia, and trading slop to Ed Wade for Lidge. He is 1/3. Giving away Padilla was incredibly stupid, and even if they wanted him off the team, they shouldn't have been willing to give him away like that-- it demonstrated that Gillick would cave which came back to bite him when we handed the 2006 AL East crown to the Yankees with Abreu and Lidle and didn't pick up any elite prospects back, all on the basis that we wouldn't compete in 2007 anyway. Also, Geoff Jenkins was obviously meant to be italicized I assume?— MattS
- How on earth did you leave BOBBY ABREU off the list of moves that Gillick has made???? And how have none of the commenters on this article mentioned this? Gillick has made threemajor deals in his tenure as Phillies GM-- giving away Abreu and Lidle for already-failed prospects, giving away Floyd and Gonzalez for an unexamined right shoulder with a torn labrum attached to Freddy Garcia, and trading slop to Ed Wade for Lidge. He is 1/3. Giving away Padilla was incredibly stupid, and even if they wanted him off the team, they shouldn't have been willing to give him away like that-- it demonstrated that Gillick would cave which came back to bite him when we handed the 2006 AL East crown to the Yankees with Abreu and Lidle and didn't pick up any elite prospects back, all on the basis that we wouldn't compete in 2007 anyway. Also, Geoff Jenkins was obviously meant to be italicized I assume?— MattS
- Let's not get lost in the details. We all were high as a kite when we got Garcia. It's too easy to judge in hindsight. Let's look at results: We made it into the playoffs last year for the first time since I was a young man, and we've got a 95% chance of making it this year. THOSE are the results that count.— dlscholt
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- I agree MattS. Murph missed that one. That trade was very big and had it shares of impacts. Even thou we got peanuts for Abreu and Liddle, it changed the so-called culture of the club and allow Chase Utley to be the main man on the team. It also freed some money. Abreu was going to make 15 mil in 2006. I will grade Gillick’s tenure as a C-. He came here with all the accolades about being a savior and all that. And so far he is being more or less Ed Wade. We made the playoffs last year and we are in good position to make it again, but we have been lucky both times, thanks to the Mets, and the Brewers this time.— EL Zorro
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- I agree that it's crazy to leave Abreu off the list (just an awful deal, even if it did change the complexion of the team). Even crazier is leaving off Gillick's smartest (and most courageous) move: Keeping Charlie Manuel. Phillie fans would have been behind Gillick 100% if he fired Manuel when he came in but, instead, he let him play out his contract and then extended him, and we were rewarded with our first playoff appearance in 14 years (and, hopefully, two in a row...barring a total collapse against the Nats this weekend). I have to admit that I've never been a huge Manuel fan, but I no longer have any doubt that he is the best manager for THIS team. Steer us into the postseason again, Charlie, and you should be remembered as Gillick's best personnel decision.— Burrito_77
- how can you leave lidge out of the poll murph?— shayrod
- Why is Utley and Myers included in Gillick's signings?— elloyd24
- I mean I know he re-signed them, but he shouldn't be apart of his legacy.— elloyd24
- Gillick gets a C. He did some good things, but also some bad. The bad leave a worse taste, because names like Garcia, Eaton and Rhodes will linger.— JSaq
- You are given credit to the signing of Utley, Meyers and that is a long stretch. Garcia and Eaton are very expensive mistakes. Got lucky with Burrell, screwed up Floyd, gave away Abreau. Made the comment the team wasn't a playoff contender in 06. I give him C which is high in my opinion.— rick2657
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- It seems many folks have memory loss. While Floyd may have had a good year this year, I dont recall him doing much in a Phils uniform. He definitely qualifies as a guy who needed a change of scenery. The Abreu trade not only changed the culture, it also fred up a lotta cash. I only see the Eaton deal as his worst move. Even Helms signing didnt cost the Phils anything and he rectified that move this year by dumping him & signing Feliz.— efrye13
- Utley and Myers were contract extensions. I just included most of the significant transactions that occurred on his watch. I don't make the polls, either. They just appear, though our Philly.com do a great job. I neglected to include Abreu. My bad.
- Compared to other GM's...Gillick gets a C. Compared to other PHilly GM's..he gets an A. At least we are fielding competitive teams these days. Anyone want to go back to Von Hayes or Lance Parrish?— Flotsam
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- This author has no clue how the operations of baseball even start to work, from the inside. It's as if he analyzes these moves in a vacuum, without even considering reality. The Aaron Rowand trade was a DISASTER. Yes, Rowand played very well for 1 year, but Jim Thome has been exceptional for the Chi Sox. Far better than Rowand EVER was for the Phillies. Not only that, but we paid, (and STILL, to this day) pay, Jim Thome's contract. I shouldn't even be writing on a message board of an author who's just a talking head and knows nothing of what he speaks. Since being traded for Aaron Rowand, Thome hit 42 HR in 2006, 35 in 2007, and 33 in 2008. Over that same time, 3 years, Aaron Rowand has hit 12, 27, and 13 HRs respectively, for 52 TOTAL. And the funny thing is, the Phillies STILL pay Thome's contract. Gillick was a failure. Stop lying to your readers.— rich_gelman
- Aaron Rowand deal should be considered the worst ever by a Philadelphia GM. Aaron Rowand was let go after two years, while Jim Thome still to this day plays exceptionally well for the Chi Sox, hitting over 110 HRs for them since leaving the Phillies . So essentially, Jim Thome was just given away, for free. We didn't get a pitcher. We didn't get a guy who plays third base, a power position. We didn't get a catcher. We moved one the greatest power hitters of all-time for a decent rental center-fielder... yet these 610 and Daily News guys have you morons convinced Pat Gillick knew what he was doing. Worst move made by the Philadelphia Phillies, yet glamorized by talking heads with no clue. It's not quite as frustrating as much as a waste of time. Pathetic. Just reminding you readers to think before believing the planted articles.— rich_gelman
- Author: I ask that you retrospectively grade the Aaron Rowand-Jim Thome deal ordeal. Was trading Jim Thome really the right thing to do? For that player? In the long run. Please unbolden that.— rich_gelman
- Reading this string gets me thinking about his replacement. Although the Phils have had success whilr he was here, they peaked at just hovering around first place at the end of the season hoping their competition tanks. I think they need a new more aggressive approach from outside the organization. Is Gerry Hunsicker still around?— fla
- gelman- I'm not sure about your view of the Thome trade. can you explain some more?— fla
- We're beginning to see Blanton become the pitcher that won 15 games each year, now that the tendonitis is past. I agree with El Zorro in that we've been lucky both times. Gillick's biggest fault was sticking with a clueless manager. This team would have been in the post season four straight years with a manager that understands pitching and strategy. Everyone's exited about ninety wins when it easily could have been one hundred.— coachbruce
- Gelman, you forgot to add in your monologue that by trading Thome it opened the door for Ryan Howard the same way the Bobby Abreu trade sped up the development of Shane Victorion. Sometimes you do addition by substraction.— EL Zorro
- How can signing Brad Lidge to a 3 year contract not be a positive. You've got to be kidding. He's the Phillies MVP this year and will be very important to the success of this team in the future.— bigtbone
- Because the jury is still out on that Lidge extension. He's being great so far but he could have the Steve Blast syndrome next year. Remember Joe Cowley. He was a good young pitcher the Phillies got from the White Sox after the 1986 season for Gary Redus. That year with the Sox he established an AL record by striking out the first seven Rangers batters he faced and later threw a no-hitter against a pretty good Angels team. He was a power pitcher like Lidge, who couldn’t find the strike zone for some reason, like Cardinals phenom Rick Ankiel. He was 0-4 with the Phils in 1987, was sent to the minors and later released. As a matter of fact, he is the only pitcher in ML history to throw a no-hitter and never win a game after that. I’m not trying to be a pessimist here, but I understand why Murph did not highlight it. We can review this deal in three years.— EL Zorro
- Great post, Dave. I have my own view of the Blanton move. http://tinyurl.com/3gz2ao But where's Bobby Abreu and Cory Lidle? As for Gavin Floyd, sometimes players need to go away. I'm convinced he wouldn't have accomplished in Philadelphia what he has in Chicago. That doesn't necessarily mean the Phillies blew it. It just means that sometimes players need a fresh start. Romero and Eyre are examples of guys who regained their form here, and they're success here doesn't reflect badly on either the Cubs or Red Sox.— PhillyCooke
- Sorry folks but if mmemory serves Thome was injured and because of that Howard came up and it soon became obvious we didn't need Thome anymore. Jason Michaels left town because of his troubles with the law. Rowand was not the reason for that move but a result of the move. I agree 100% with "coach bruce" our record as it stands today should have been 10 wins higher with the talent on this team.— Wally 24
- Gelman - So you are saying that the Phillies would be better off today with Thome at first base than with Howard? Really? With a straight face? And you are saying they would have had a better shot at a playoff run last season with Thome at first base and Victorino in center field than with Howard at first base and Rowand in center field? Just attempting to clarify your position, since on the surface it makes absolutely no sense.
- No, you guys are still completely oblivious to reality. No, I do not think we'd be better with Thome at 1B than Howard, obviously. I'm saying we should've gotten more for Thome, a Hall of Famer that could almost still be considered in his prime (...not quite, but still hitting 35-40 HRs consistently). So the point is, they shouldv'e gotten pitching for Thome and Cash. A young pitcher. I'm saying they should have traded (let go) of Thome, but they should've gotten more than Aaron Rowand. Cause whether you wanna believe so or not, we got nothing for Jim Thome. Aaron Rowand no longer plays for the Phillies. Jim Thome still plays for the White Sox. If it's not crystal clear, you're not one of the educated people I'm writing to.— rich_gelman
- Thome was injured? Are you psychotic? He had the best year of his hall of fame career the year AFTER he left Philadelphia. Aaron Rowand was a downgrade. Gillick glamorized it to the idiots who read and write the paper. I wonder when they'll start censoring me.— rich_gelman
- Look, Murphy, just look into it. We have absolutely no remainder from the Jim Thome trade. If we did, I'd say fine, wise trade, whatever. But we don't. So wasn't he essentially let go for nothing? I'm asking a question here.— rich_gelman
- And please, don't imply we traded Jim Thome for Ryan Howard. Just cause we freed up an occupied position, and then filled it with somebody better, doesn't mean we traded the two guys. Obviously what I'm saying sounds a bit far-fetched, but an argument was made that we somewhat were forced to trade Thome for Howard-- when in fact both were in our system.— rich_gelman
- My Point: Because we didn't sign Aaron Rowand to an extension, we got absolutely nothing for Jim Thome. San Fran paid for Rowand, so this has nothing to do with them, except that the Phillies still pay Thome's salary, I believe.— rich_gelman
- Thome was a 34-year-old offensive specialist -- total games played in the field and not at DH since the trade: 4 -- who was coming off a season in which he was plagued by injuries and hit .207 with seven home runs. That's not conducive to high trade value.
- Well it shouldn't be emboldened, the Rowand ordeal. Aaron Rowand was a great acquisition, by himself, but it didn't happen in a vacuum, and the liquidation of an under-valued Jim Thome should offset your giddiness. But instead, you get excited about a negative that appears a positive.— rich_gelman
