Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 6:56 PM | 23 comments |
 

Ross deal unlikely, No Hamels for Mets
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Some late-breaking news here from the ballpark. . .

The Phillies have already spoken with the agent of Reds catcher David Ross and alerted him to their interest in him, but as of the start of tonight's game the club has learned that Ross is likely going to sign with an American League team, perhaps the Boston Red Sox. Pat Gillick told panelists on Daily News Live that a deal from Ross now appears unlikely. The Phillies had hoped to add him to either their roster or their minor league system to provide depth at catcher during September and, potentially the playoffs.

^

One other thing that  -- at least juding by emails in my inbox -- is likely of interest to a lot of you out there is that the Phillies aren't going to move Cole Hamels up a day so that he can face the Mets later next week. Manager Charlie Manuel said the team still had some things to talk about when it comes to their pitchers and hitters, but pitching coach Rich Dubee shot it down as a possibility. Their reasoning is that because Hamels is leading the NL in innings and he is at the point where he broke down last season, the Phillies want to give him as much rest as possible.

Posted by David Murphy @ 6:56 PM  Permalink | 23 comments
23
Comments   
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:00 PM, 08/20/2008
    Need I remind them that you might have to put our best players out there to even make the playoffs...
    — phigglesfan75
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:04 PM, 08/20/2008
    Manuel is right. Pitcher vs. Pitcher Matchups are overrated. Besides, the chances are, the Phillies will score more runs if Hamels isn't pitching anyway. You start him vs. Santana, and you guarantee it'll be no more than 1 run.
    — Frank Lloyd Wrong
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:10 PM, 08/20/2008
    That's idiotic. You're playing superstitiously. Playing Hamels against Santana is MORE important since they will get fewer runs that day, not less. The fact that they aren't doing this is foolish. There are tons of other opportunities to get him more rest, several days off and they can use Happ in September after rosters are expanded too. It's becoming very clear that either the Mets or the Phillies will make the playoffs and not both. Those games count double. If they want to give Hamels rest, this is not the time. He's not lined up to pitch against Santana in September either, and will miss that series too if he's not moved up this time or between now an then. This is helps move Hamels up to pitch against Santana twice. Dubee and Manuel might know mechanics of pitching and hitting and player management, etc., but they know nothing about statistics or strategy and it's more and more obvious. With Hamels got moved up in early July to pitch against the Braves in the same situation, he missed the Mets. Then he was lined up to play the Mets after the break but the moved him back two games exactly to miss the Mets again. It's as though the Mets are setting the Phillies rotation!
    — MattS
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:10 PM, 08/20/2008
    That's idiotic. You're playing superstitiously. Playing Hamels against Santana is MORE important since they will get fewer runs that day, not less. The fact that they aren't doing this is foolish. There are tons of other opportunities to get him more rest, several days off and they can use Happ in September after rosters are expanded too. It's becoming very clear that either the Mets or the Phillies will make the playoffs and not both. Those games count double. If they want to give Hamels rest, this is not the time. He's not lined up to pitch against Santana in September either, and will miss that series too if he's not moved up this time or between now an then. This is helps move Hamels up to pitch against Santana twice. Dubee and Manuel might know mechanics of pitching and hitting and player management, etc., but they know nothing about statistics or strategy and it's more and more obvious. With Hamels got moved up in early July to pitch against the Braves in the same situation, he missed the Mets. Then he was lined up to play the Mets after the break but the moved him back two games exactly to miss the Mets again. It's as though the Mets are setting the Phillies rotation!
    — MattS
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:11 PM, 08/20/2008
    If Hamels were Chris Short, Robin Roberts or Steve Carlton or Jim Bunning I'd consider moving the pitchers around. The fact is, Hamels is merely a good pitcher, not a #1 game stopper such as the others named here. The games are going to be desided on who scores the most runs. Either team is capable of folding or scoring a ton of runs. I'll be happy if the phils split the series, and even happier if they win 3 out of 4. I just can't believe this team struggles for runs this year, did aaron rowan mean THAT much to the lineup?
    — shibe
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:38 PM, 08/20/2008
    "The games are going to be decided on who scores the most runs." How exactly were games decided when the other pitchers pitched??? Run scoring is higher than it has been back when they pitched. Cole Hamels is a dominant pitcher and gives up about 2 runs less per 9 than Kendrick in the average game. That gives the team a nearly 20% better chance of winning a game he pitches. Hamels is one of the top 10 pitchers in the game, and if you don't understand how good Hamels' ERA is for a modern day pitcher, use ERA+ to evaluate it (better than 100 means better than average). Chris Short's ERA+ for his career was 103, Robin Roberts' was 113, Jim Bunning's was 114, and Steve Carlton's was 115. Their career high's were 157 ,149, 152, and 182 respectively. Cole's career ERA+ is 130 and this year it's 138. Clearly he isn't far off from those guys at all. If you can't adjust for era, you have to assume Shane Victorino is a power hitter. Cole gives us a better chance of winning and should be used. He pitches 7 more games this year either way. It won't affect his innings total one bit.
    — MattS
  • Comment removed.
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 6:43 AM, 08/21/2008
    Extra day for Hamels will pay off. Plenty of games left and we will need him during final stretch. You folks need to pay more attention to FrankLloydWrong.
    — mick314
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:32 AM, 08/21/2008
    Right, we can sure use Hamels sin those pressure cooker games against the Nats and the Braves. No sense using him to beat the Mets, who are now in first place. Save him for those teams who are 10, 20 games out. Carlton, Bunning, and Roberts got to be shaking their heads wondering if the Phils will ever turn this kid loose. If the Phils make it to the series, tied 3-3, would they consider using Hamels on 4-days' rest? Probably not, wouldn't want to hurt him that late in the season.
    — mike l
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:49 AM, 08/21/2008
    HAMELS HAS THE MONTHS OF NOVEMBER,DECEMBER,JANUARY, FEBRUARY AND MARCH TO REST... LET'T WIN NOW.
    — STEVE5444
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:58 AM, 08/21/2008
    While I also would love to see the match-up, Hamels has repeatedly said that screwing with his schedule screws with his pitching. He refused to pitch on 4 days even in playoffs and complained about too long a lay-off during All-star week. Whether he is an Ace, a good pitcher of just an average pitcher, he seems to know himself and I for one don't want to F^ck with a good thing
    — jeff gross
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:02 AM, 08/21/2008
    Geniuses, why don't you go see how moving the rotation around and starting aces on short rest worked for Gene Mauch.
    — Venkman
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:05 AM, 08/21/2008
    does someone always have to bring up the ghost of '64??
    — jeff gross
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:17 AM, 08/21/2008
    It's not short rest. It's normal rest. Hamels never refused to pitch on normal rest. They had an off-day Monday. It's still 4 days between games. His tissue doesn't magically not heal because there was no game scheduled Monday. All this would require is switching him and Kendrick. He still pitches 7 games between and now and the end.
    — MattS
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:38 AM, 08/21/2008
    If they simply switch Hamels with Kendrick, they will both be on normal rest, so Dubee doesn't know what he is talking about. The only change is Kendrick will get an extra day. Hamels will still make the same amount of starts, and gets to pitch twice against the Mets. If they are concerned about messing with Kendrick's starts due to his Home/Away splits (his OPS against is .732 Home vs .899 Away, I haven't compared to the normal split but I am sure that is significant) then the home start he misses if he gets switched (8/27 vs Mets to 8/28 at Cubs) he will make up in September (9/7 at Mets to 9/8 vs Fla). It's really a no-brainer, as MattS says.
    — CyHamels


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About David Murphy
David Murphy joined the Daily News as its Phillies beat writer in February of 2008. Born in Upper Merion and raised in the Poconos, he attended college at La Salle University before taking jobs with the Myrtle Beach (S.C.) Sun-News and the St. Petersburg ( Fla. ) Times. E-mail Dave at dmurphy@phillynews.com.

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