Did the Reds really turn down Shane Victorino because of Logan Ondrusek?
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Did the Reds really turn down Shane Victorino because of Logan Ondrusek?
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
If the Cincinnati Enquirer is to be believed, the Phillies could struggle to gain anything of value in exchange for center fielder Shane Victorino.
Paul Daugherty, a columnist at the paper, included a tidbit on his blog that said the Reds nixed a deal that would have seen Victorino head to the Reds in return for Ondrusek, straight up.
Ondrusek is a 27-year-old righthander who is in the middle of his third full season in the major leagues. His 2.70 ERA looks good, but everything else about him says that he is at best a No. 4 or No. 5 reliever in a contender's bullpen (which is where he slots in the Reds bullpen). His strikeout rate is passable -- 6.1-per-nine this year, 6.0 for his career -- but he has walked at least 4.0 batters-per-nine in the last two seasons, which isn't something you want to see out of a guy who is pitching in high-leverage situations. If you do see it, you better be getting more than 6 strikeouts-per-nine.
That being said, he has gotten results, converting 31-of-37 hold/save opportunities in his career while stranding 77 of 97 inherited runners, and his groundball and home run rates are both solid. His whiff rate (17 percent), is slightly above average, as is his strike rate (62 percent).
Frankly, if the Phillies are hoping to get relief help in exchange for Victorino, which is what all of the indications are, Ondrusek is about the level of guy they can realistically expect. Anybody better is probably going to be an integral part of a contending team, which is the type of team that would be trading for Victorino. The only hope is that teams get more desperate as the deadline approaches.
Frankly, this sounds like it would have been a great trade for the Reds. From the Philies perspective, it would have been a cheap, usable bullpen piece who is better than anybody they have at the moment, aside from Antonio Bastardo and Jonathan Papelbon. But he profiles closer to Michael Schwimer than he does Papelbon. Ondusek would give the Phillies what they hoped they were getting when they signed Chad Qualls. But according to Daugherty, he won't be giving them anything.
I agree with the posters who have already said that if thats all they can get for Victorino then they might as well play the year out with him. It's not like they have some young prospect who's being blocked in center by Vic. This team has enough mediocre relievers. This guy's #'s say that his era is misleading and he's probably been very lucky this season. Unless you're adding in a positive way to the team then all you would be doing is saying to the fans that management is just trying to save some cash for the rest of the season and we are basically running up the white flag.— Sewellmatt- It's not a matter of just "saving cash." They can't go over the luxury tax threshold two years in a row without facing severe penalties. The Hamels deal means they are most definitely going to cross the threshold next year, so they need to get under for this season. — itsRyan
- Yanks were looking heavily at victorino with Gardner and swisher out but passed on him after the Ichiro pick up— Km3737
- Princeton22: Hope you really don't expect anyone to believe that name has anything to do with you in the real world! Don't know what your point in picking 64 was. Oh, I get it. That number was out there in the air, just floating around. Also don't know what your point in picking out 87 happened to have been. Oh, I see, the same sort of floating around! Additionally, what with the way other teams are playing, there is no reason to suspect 87 wins would not be enough to be one of the two wild cards. At this point, your brand of "realism" makes not difference! They need to be hot to the end. Perhaps not quite so hot as the 1951 Giants, who were 39-8 down the stretch, but quite HOT. Is it probable? Probably not. Is it possible? Outside the so-called minds of boo boo birdies as yourself, YES it is. People in Philadelphia, I have continued to learn since the 40's would rather quit than TRY! (That goes for dopes as you, UncleStosh!)— BEMiller
- Go back and look at the year end standings for the past 10 years. 90 wins is likely to be at least and 2nd best record for a non-division winner, and thus the second wild card. 89 wins is a good bet. 88 - not so much. And 87 is possible but with long odds. (Not sure of rules if two teams tie for 2nd WC, but counting that hypothetical situation as making the playoffs.)
Here are the actual figures. The numbers are arranged as follows:
#wins: # of teams making at least the 2nd WC; # of teams tied for 2nd WC; # of teams not making it
90: 12; 2; 6
89: 7; 5; 8
88: 4; 3; 7
87: 1; 3; 16— judas_priest - another example of the phillies over valuing their own players.
— tony bell - What killed the Yankee deal was Amaro asking for too much. Then Vic got hit in the elbow and they turned to Ichiro. The Reds never make big trades during the deadline. Remember, they gave San Diego a lot of good prospects for Latos in the offseason.— EL Zorro
- Pence or Cliff Lee may be the last worthwhile chips the Phillies have left to rein in a top notch third baseman.
It seems Rollins and Victorino are as worthless to other clubs as they are to the Phillies. Might as well keep them until the end of the season.
Can't they put some putty or crazy glue on Polanco and send him back out there.
The mini run that the club is having may inhibit them from making a move until yearend.
Now if they were to sweep the Braves this weekend....
I might jump back on the bandwagon myself !— candidly - Here's the deal. Your 2 bigest needs are a 3rd baseman and a reliable right handed relief pitcher. Keep Victorino, he is your best outfielder by far. Pence has to go, he could drive you nuts. I would rather see Brown brought back.— Da Nuck
- With the Phillies late comeback surge in the last handful of games, they may decide to keep Victorino for the rest of the season and just let him walk in free agency. For what they would get in return for Victorino, they may as well let him help them at least try to finish the season over .500, which would allow them to retain a sliver of respectability.— SteveS11
- . . . "it would have been a cheap, usable bullpen piece who is better than anybody they have at the moment, aside from Antonio Bastardo and Jonathan Papelbon."
Uhh, Murph, by 4:52 pm when this article was posted Bastardo AGAIN coughed up the big one by surrendering a two run game tying BOMB! You can't be serious, are you?
At this juncture Chollie has continually expressed faith that Schwimer and Diekman would develop, and right now I would rather see them in there than Bastardo. He needs a trip up 476 to get his head removed from his derriere.— Steve Knepp - In the Pittsburgh papers it says the Pirates made an offer for Victorino, but the Phillies wanted Lincoln which nixed that deal. It's not our money so we shouldn't care but the Phillies have a lot of incentive to shed payroll and get under the luxury tax threshold this year since they are out of contention and look to be over next year. The luxury tax escalates each consecutive year a team is over and even though the threshold goes up after next year, salaries will go up to and they are going to need to be able to get some players if Howard, Rollins, Lee and Papelbon are scuffling a couple of years from now. They'll trade guys, but if you aren't happy with the return and there's still a few days to go, you might was well hang on a little bit more.— jtj06
- Hey Cliff Lee after watching the replay of Zack Greinke take a Happy Gilmore swing off you i have just one thing to say ..........
you need to Knock some batters down they re looking way too comfortable swinging at your first pitch strikes .and the rest of the Red Pinstripes Get the dude some runs— jgf - I think compensation has changed, if Shane goes free agent they don't get a draft pick.
— Eephus - The Phillies will get compensation only if they offer Shane a one-year guarantee contract of $12.5 millions, which will be the average of the top 125 highest paid players in the league. Obviously, he has to decline it. There are not Type A or B FA anymore, and you can't offer arbitration to FA. Only the aforementioned guarantee contract, which will increase as salaries increase. — EL Zorro
