Cole Hamels' ever-increasing price tag: start at six years, $138 million
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Cole Hamels' ever-increasing price tag: start at six years, $138 million
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
How much money is Cole Hamels worth? (David Maialetti/Staff Photographer)
Few cliches inspire eye-rolls like the professional athlete sitting in front of the public and stating that his new bazillion dollar contract "isn't about the money." Of course it is about the money. In professional sports, it is almost always about the money, whether we are talking about player or management or television. But that doesn't mean that a player who contends otherwise is a liar. After a decade-plus of intereacting with professional athletes, I have come to believe that when they say, "It isn't about the money," what they mean is, "It isn't about building my personal wealth and increasing my spending power." Instead, it is about respect and affirmation and ego, which are three entities that help fan the incredible fire that burns inside of these guys. And the measure of a baseball organization's respect for a player is the size of the contract that it offers him. If Cole Hamels reaches free agency and the Dodgers or the Cubs or the Red Sox offer him $175 million over seven years while the Phillies offer him $125 million over five years, the implication is that the Dodgers or Cubs or Red Sox value Hamels more than the Phillies do. And if Hamels accepts, his rationale could be, "Team X wants me more than the Phillies do," instead of "I can buy an extra $50 million worth of stuff if I sign with Team X."
I'm sure that isn't always the case. Sometimes, it comes down to pure material want. But I also think about it from my perspective. I love Philadelphia. I consider it my home. My goal was always to write sports in this city, and now I make a good living doing it. I could live on a lot less money. But if a media outlet in New York or Boston or Chicago or Los Angeles offered me a 50 percent pay raise, and my current employer said, "We'll give you 10 percent," I'd be apartment hunting the next day.
The analogy is difficult to swallow because of the amount of money that an athlete like Hamels already makes. In my situation, a 50 percent pay raise would significantly alter my lifestyle and ability to save money. It is easy for me to think, "Well, Hamels is already rich, how much money does he need?"
But all material life is relative. Think about how my decision would look to a teacher making $40,000? And think about how that teacher's decision would look to somebody who is making $20,000? And think about how all of it would look to somebody trying to raise a kid by working two minimum-wage jobs. The relative nature of personal wealth within a society is one of the reasons why the economic stratification of our society is of such concern to many people who study it. Sure, America's poor are richer than the middle classes in a lot of other societies. Problem is, they don't live in those societies.
But before I derail my 2020 presidential bid with writings that can be used as evidence of socialist beliefs, let's focus on the point: Unless Hamels is one of those rare players who likes being a Phillie so much that he will check his ego at the door, the organization is going to have to pay him close to what he is worth if it wants him to remain.
So what is he worth?
It's a question we've examined several times over the past couple of seasons, and each time we've concluded that, barring injury, his value is only going to increase the longer the Phillies wait to re-sign him. This time, free agency is in plain sight, with an estimated 22 starts remaining before Hamels is no longer under contract to the club. Two months into his walk year, he is averging 7 innings per start with a 2.43 ERA while averaging 9.2 strikeouts, 1.8 walks, and 0.9 home runs per ning innings. He is second in the NL in innings per start, eighth in ERA, seventh in walks/hits allowed per inning (WHIP), fifth in strikeouts-per-nine (K/9), and second in strikeout-to-walk ratio.
My best projection is that Hamels, who will be 29 years old in the first year of his new deal, would be in position to expect at least a six-year, $138 million contract based on his performance and the recent history of the open market.
How do we arrive at that conclusion?
Below are the richest contracts signed by pitchers over the last five years:
- C.C. Sabathia, 7 years/$161 million covering ages 28-34 starting in 2009
- Johan Santana, 6 years/$137.5 million covering ages 29-34 starting in 2009
- Matt Cain, 6 years/$127.5 million covering ages 27-32 starting in 2012
- Cliff Lee, 5 years/$125.0 million covering ages 32-36 starting in 2011
- C.C. Sabathia, 5 years/$122.0 million covering ages 31-35 starting in 2012
Hamels' career numbers compare favorably to those posted by the aforementioned four pitchers at the times they signed their deals. We'll consider only Sabathia's first deal (his second one was signed after he exercised an opt-out clause this offseason).
Below are those numbers:
| Player | ERA | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | WHIP | IP | G/GS |
| Hamels | 3.34 | 8.5 | 2.2 | 1.1 | 1.133 | 1231.2 | 191/190 |
| Sabathia | 3.66 | 7.6 | 2.8 | 0.8 | 1.244 | 1659.1 | 254/254 |
| Santana | 3.22 | 9.5 | 2.5 | 1.0 | 1.094 | 1308.2 | 251/175 |
| Cain | 3.35 | 7.4 | 3.2 | 0.7 | 1.196 | 1317.1 | 204/203 |
| Lee | 3.85 | 6.9 | 2.2 | 1.0 | 1.256 | 1409 | 222/218 |
So Hamels' numbers are better across the board than Sabathia's were at the time he signed his contract, with the exception of innings and starts. If you were to make the argument that Hamels is not in Sabathia's class, this is where you would focus. If Hamels makes all of his starts for the rest of the season, he would have 212 starts and 1381 2/3 innings for his career, which is more than a season less than Sabathia. Really, though, that will be irrelevant. In fact, John Boggs could argue that Hamels has a fresher arm because of the lighter workload. Nobody can argue that Hamels hasn't proven he can carry the load of an ace. He has logged at least 208 innings in his last two seasons, at least 193 in each of his last four, at least 180 in each of his last five, and has logged at least 216 twice. And that's not including this season.
What really matters is how deep Hamels has pitched into the starts he has made, and his average is between 6 1/3 and 6 2/3 innings, the same as Sabathia's.
The only other argument that is even partially substantive is the fact that Hamels has spent his entire career in the National League, while Sabathia, Santana and Lee had been in the American League when they signed their deals. Hamels has a 4.19 ERA in 20 starts against American League teams, not including the World Series.
Still, that argument can be countered with a number of similarly unquantifiable points:
1) Hamels has spent his entire career in one of the more extreme home run parks in the majors.
2) Hamels' interleague ERA is inflated by some rough starts in his first couple of seasons as a pro. Since 2008, he has a 3.38 ERA, 8.4 K/9, 4.7 BB/9, and 1.177 WHIP in 15 interleague starts. Again, that doesn't include the World Series, which in 2008 worked out pretty well for him.
3) Hamels has 13 career postseason starts. Santana and Sabathia both had five. Cain had three. Cliff Lee had 11. And Hamels' career 3.09 postseason ERA is better than Santana or Sabathia's.
All of that is quibbling, though. Fact is, Hamels' career record stacks up equal or better than those of our four comparables at the time they signed their deals.
But we all know that the free market favors recent performance of career performance, so let's take a look at each player's last three seasons heading into their deals.
| Player/Years | ERA | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | WHIP | IP | G/GS |
| Hamels 2010-12 | 2.85 | 8.7 | 2.2 | 1.0 | 1.071 | 495.0 | 75/74 |
| Sabathia 2006-08 | 3.03 | 8.3 | 1.8 | 0.7 | 1.140 | 686.2 | 97/97 |
| Santana 2005-07 | 2.99 | 9.4 | 1.9 | 1.0 | 1.013 | 684.1 | 100/100 |
| Cain 2009-11 | 2.97 | 7.2 | 2.7 | 0.7 | 1.115 | 662.2 | 99/99 |
| Lee 2008-10 | 2.98 | 7.2 | 1.3 | 0.6 | 1.122 | 667.1 | 93/93 |
Hamels has a better ERA and WHIP and better strikeout and walk rates than Sabathia did in the three seasons before he signed his deal. Keep in mind Hamels is only a third of a way through his third season. Right now, he is on pace for 224 innings over 32 starts, which would bring him up to 649 innings over 96 starts. That's an average of 6 2/3 innings per start, same as Cain and Santana, about a half an inning less than Sabathia and Lee.
Again, the only arguments you can make against Hamels are on the extreme periphery of being relevant.
Hamels' 0.79 groundball rate is the same as Sabathia's was when he went to the Yankees, and it is much better than those posted by Santana, Cain and Lee. Sabathia did allow a lower ratio of extra base hits than Hamels has allowed, so there is that.
It doesn't matter how deep you look into the numbers, Hamels belongs in the same class as Santana and Sabathia, who in my opinion are the two most relevant comparables because of their age at the time of their deals as well as their left-handedness. Sabathia is the most comparable because he was actually on the open market, while Santana was still under club control when the Twins shipped him to the Mets, who then signed him to his deal. Cain signed his deal at the beginning of this season, which was to be his last before free agency.
For the Phillies to sign Hamels now, they would have to expect to dole out a contract that is at least equal to the one Cain signed, which would be a six-year deal at $127.5 million guaranteed, which would leave Hamels a free agent again heading into his 34-year-old season.
Once he hits the open market, you would have to expect that at least one team would be willing to match the Sabathia deal, in the sense that they would be willing to give him $23 million per season through his 34-year-old season. That's how we arrive at the six-year, $138 million figure. After that, it is impossible to predict where the market will go.
As we all know, the Phillies are reluctant to give out contracts longer than three years, particularly when it comes to pitchers. But they gave Lee a five-year deal, and Hamels will be three years younger than Lee was.
That's a lot of money for a team that already has $109 million guaranteed to eight players (Ryan Howard, Roy Halladay, Lee, Jimmy Rollins, Jonathan Papelbon, Chase Utley, Kyle Kendrick, Laynce Nix). Factor in an arbitration raise from Hunter Pence's current $10.4 million salary and a sure-to-be-exercised $5 million option for Carlos Ruiz, and the total is at least $125 million for 10 players. That leaves them with 15 roster spots to fill, including potential big-money positions like starting pitcher (Hamels), center field (Shane Victorino) and third base (Placido Polanco).
Comments (127)
Open up the checkbook and sign Hamels. If it costs you Victorino, Polanco and Pence then so be it (corner OFs are a dime a dozen and the Phils have Brown that should be up here already). Stick Mayberry in CF for the time being and go from there. Yeah, it might hurt financially in 2013 but in 2014 Utley, KK, Nix and potentially Doc (I wouldn't exercise the option unless he bounces back in a BIG way in 2013) come off the board. Besides Nix isn't making a ton of money and could be easily moved and there are so many pitching starved teams out there that someone would most likely be willing to take on KK and his contract. Heck, if Utley comes back and shows that he can drive the ball, maybe an AL team will be willing to trade for him so he can DH because that is what he is probably best suited for at this point (or put him in LF). This all sounds simple and it should be but this is also a front office like Murph said doesn't give out longer than 3 year deals to pitchers often and the reason they gave Lee the 5 as because Montgomery valued what he did for the organization in 09 and because he won a CY Young award.— ESFjellin- Good posts throughout Jellin; good to great article by Murphy above.
Suggest that if the Yankees and Dodgers, both, are out there, and his trajectory is up, as it is, then his value is way up, too. Their bigger ballparks suggest many Cy Youngs over the next few years for a pitcher who keeps the ball in the park and kills worms. The Yanks and the Dodgers will pay handsomely for that.
With the trajectory of this team, I would not be surprised if Hamels tests FA. Why not? Nothing to lose.
If the team isn't close expect a sort of Wise/Carlton-like trade later this year. Why not? Nothing to lose. Unfortunately, it is likely that the Phils would be on the Wise-end of that deal rather than the Carlton-end.
Personally, the Phils should overpay for this guy. Right now. $142M/7 years. Done. Might he take that and not disrupt the life? Who knows. But try.
Your turn MontCo. This isn't up to RAJ.— 24sDad - halladay's 2014 option automatically vests if halladay has 225 IP in 2013, 415 IP in 2012-2013 and he's not on the DL at end of 2013
— barry m goldwater - Brown? What is he going to do? Besides, he's on the DL. What's Mayberry done this year? Everybody wants to get rid of somebody, but never answers with who they would get to replace them. — mike l
- blah blah blah, sign him --
unless they realistically think they can get JOSH HAMILTON— WFChamps - There is a pretty cool article at crashburnalley.com which shows Amaro's greatest hits as a GM. The writer says that he valued Ryan Howard over Hamels (truth) and with his love affair in signing older vets to long term deals, don't look at the Phils signing Hamilton (I wouldn't sign him, not worth the potential trouble) but look for them to sign someone like Carlos Lee to a 3 year deal. — ESFjellin
- the offseason was the time to have signed hamels.. it should have been amaro's top priority in the offseason... instead, amaro focussed on all sorts of gm asshattery that added zero value to the club.. now it is too late to reel in hamels - he's like a prisoner getting close to the end of serving a long sentence. he doesnt want to come back here. he wants to go someplace where a competent front office will give the team a chance to win a world series. hamels will be traded to an american league team at the deadline for prospects. bank on it. — zwarte piet
- I love Shane, but if it came down to the choice between signing Cole and signing Shane, I'd pick Cole 100 times out of a 100. Hell, teach Utley to play center field.— thefonz37
- Does anyone know whether Utley would be able to play left field or first base in his current physical condition. If so, why isn't he playing now? BTW great article as always.— porcamiseria34
- He could def. play 1st base and should be given an opportunity to try LF as well. Playing the OF is a little bit easier on the body as there is less of the herky-jerky motion that comes with playing the infield. There are some articles out there where Lance Berkman said that playing in the OF was easier on his body and it was playing 1st base that he messed up his knee. — ESFjellin
- Gotta take 2009 into account. He got lazy after the WS win and wasted a year. What is he gonna do after he gets a fat contract?— P Even
- Seriously? Take 2009 into account? When Hamels peripherals were better than his results by a wide margin? He didn't do himself any favors, no, but he also was a benefactor of some extreme bad luck on balls in play. I wonder if the Phillies took Cliff Lee's 2007 into account when he was so bad he was left off the playoff roster at age 28. My guess is no — PHLSG22
- Carlton lost 20 games in 1973 after winning 27 in 1972. Then won 3 more Cy Young Awards. — mwcnabb
- Hamilton in the NL would be MVP with 40+ homers, if healthy of course. Place him in this lineup and it would be like 2008.
Carlos Lee, I doubt it.
I do prefer Michael Bourn to leadoff and replace Vic if they have the money.— WFChamps - all of those guys with the exception of matt cain have won cy youngs..does that come into play?
— Shemp Howard - If MLB had a postseason MVP, Cain would have easily won it in '10. He pitched 21+ innings with a 0.00 ERA and was 2-0. "Big Game" Cain was for all intents and purposes just as dominate as Hamels in '08.
— Sam Crow - Hamels combined ERA in 2010 and 2011 post seasons is < 1.00. It seems like he was just a beginner, learning the ropes in 2008 compared to what he has become now. — jtj06
- Not bad for a pitcher who has yet to win more than 15 games in one season in the majors. But as a capitalist I believe he deserves what the free market will bear.
The real story is when Colbert walks, will Jesse Biddle be ready to take over for only $480,000. Colbert pitched only 201 innings in the minors and Jesse has already pitched 227 innings. Both Biddle and third baseman Cody Ashe deserve to be at AA after the Florida State League All Star game to get them ready to fill the soon to big holes in the rotation and lineup at Citizen Bank Park.— Dull - Agree with moving Asche up like today, Biddle is 2 years off I suspect, AA at the end of this season, AAA end of next, 2014 at CBP.
Asche should get fast tracked and se a little AAA end of the year if he can handle Reading, because #B dont grow on trees.
Likewise I'd like to see Gillies get to LHV this summer.— WFChamps - Vote Gonzo 2020— maurysline
- Carlos lee is a first baseman and statue on the field..we are already going to have that with ryan howard at first..so why in the world would the phillies sign carlos lee..seriously--that has to be the dumbest idea i've heard.— Shemp Howard
- I would definitely do 6 yrs 138 million for Hamels. Draw up the paperwork so it can be signed.
— Pat c - Polly ain't coming back. Maybe on Victorino. I wish Cole does sign with Philly if the contract difference is $20MM or less. Say, something similar to Cliff's contract.— palmyra21
- There are some players you just open the wallet and worry about the future later - Hamels is that kind of player. Last year, I thought for most of the season he was the best starter - but toward the end Holiday was Holiday. This year, of course there is no debate as who is the best on the team (and maybe the best in the NL).— mrdip
- What if 140 mil was offered and rejected? Maybe he has decided LA is where he wants to be. Sick of people thinking the Phillies have somehow mishandled Hamels. and I love the people that throw out players to discrard and acquire like it was a fantasy team.— tommazza
- They absolutely mishandled Hamels. Amaro likes to wait until guys have proven themselves for 5-6 years before going after them, the problem is by then the player has all the leverage and is usually on the downhill. The Rays locked up Longoria when he was a rookie. Same thing with the Rockies and Tulowitski. You identify a special player and lock him up when you have the advantage. Ed Wade did that with Utley and Rollins, guaranteeing the Phillies a solid foundation at a low cost which became the cornerstone of a title. Ultimately, it would have made more sense to give Hamels Howard's contract when it was given to Howard and replace the easily replaceable Howard (runs are up this year compared to last) with somebody like Adam Dunn for half the price. — jtj06
- As usual youn got it right, Murph, its about ego and respect. Therefore, the Phillies should play that up. Offer Cole a 10 year contract for 150 million. Offer a clause where he can retire after year 7 and still get paid. In other words, we want you in Phila for your entire career and are willing to lock you up for it. Whether he gets 25 million or 15 million a season is the difference between super rich and super super rich-but the years shows respect.
As for center field, look for the Phillies to go after Broun- great D, great leadoff hitter, great speed. I hope Galvis owns a 3B man's glove.— jeff gross - For most of us, sensible money management is the key to surviving financially. The Phillies have spent their money foolishly at times and not left enough to cover more important needs. Therefore, Hamels is as good as gone. Too bad, young all Star caliber left handed pitchers are a luxury, not easily found. The Dodgers, Red Sox and other teams know that and will overpay for Hamels. See ya Cole.— gentian
- I am not saying I would like signing Carlos Lee to a 3 year deal, but if Ruben signed other aging, on-the-downslide vets such as Polanco, Moyer and Ibanez to 3 year deals, signing Lee wouldn't be a shock (and he can play LF as well, although we would all wish for Ibanez to be back on the team in that case). Hamilton, if healthy (hasnt played a full season since 2007?) would be beastly here but then again here comes the added pressures of this town and fanbase and it could get ugly. let another team overpay for him. Bourn is a Boras agent and having a career year..add those two things up and some team will be suckered into a LTD with him.— ESFjellin
- Dull, it is 2012. Citing Hamels Win total is not a good way to determine his worth on the free market, when a large amount of his starts he received so little run support. The Phillies keep saying that if Hamels walks, it won't be because they don't want him, but I wonder why they haven't made his contract a priority. They keep siting all of the other holes they have, but to let their youngest Ace pitcher keep pitching into the summer without any progress of a contract is troublesome. What exactly are they waiting for?
Shemp, no way will Biddle be in AA. He's already young for High A, and needs to refine his command as well as change up. I'm still interested to see what his FB velocity is. I hear conflicting reports of high 80's to low to mid 90's. Also the Carlos Lee thing was a tongue in cheek comment. Just stated to emphasize Amaro's love affair with mid 30's veterans.— PHLSG22 - Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble.
If I were Cole and Heidi Hamels, I would take the money TODAY. Whatever is a fair deal and wherever it's offered, especially L.A. with a new TV deal coming soon out there. Mr. California Hamels may lean that direction.
But my main point is that the sports salary bubble is not immune to overall economics. This nation (thanks to the FED) pumped up the housing bubble. It burst. Alan Greenspan (remember irrational exuberance?) helped juice the high-tech bubble. It burst.
What's next? The Sports Bubble. Team owners will very soon start to cut team salaries as fans revolt and the nation's economy slides back into recession.
Sorry to be doom and gloom, but the laws of economics are rarely shunted aside. Sports are no more special than housing and high-tech businesses. The Day of Reckoning approaches. Cole: sign now. Need an agent, my boy?— yahzooman - Just read on CBS SPorts that the Dodgers are prepared to do whatever it takes to sign Hamels, so I'm not so sure he's going to rush off and sign. Money talks and that club has just been infused with a ton of it. — PHLSG22
- Hamels is an exceptional pitcher and likely will command big bucks, however I don't think any one should be signed for over 4 or 5 years.
Right now many are not looking ahead at the economy created by spending trillions of dollars we didn't have. Don't you think owners aren't looking at that ? Sure they are. they're businessmen .
I know it affects how my money gets used.
With stocks dropping, homes being 'under' water, mortgage rates dropping to 3 % to entice people to buy, and a huge debt to be paid due to spending money we don't have is bound to affect business. Baseball is a business.
Hamels may be smart to sign for less money and fewer years. It may be a better option. Teams that are financially unstable now, will be dissolved and who will pay for the broken contracts ?
I laugh at the posters who create contracts with high salaries using someone else's money.
Politicians did it, and you can see the results.
Baseball will always be with us, but the contracts could be smaller.— phineas - This comment has been deleted.— Quixote II
- Great post.
It is the job of the GM to decide whether the players that he has in the minors are ready to take their lumps in "the show"...and a rational argument could have been made to sign someone to a one-year stop-gap contract at SS while Galvis got more seasoning at AAA. If it is clear to an internet hack like me that Galvis has the tools to play a high-level defensive SS NOW, then RAJ needed to know that as well, and let Rollins walk. - I think Hamels will be gone. Someone (Dodgers, Yankees) is going to offer him seven years and $170 million and I don't see him turning it down.— dblankj
- I think 6 years and 138 million should do it. Should have signed him in the offseason to a little over 100 million. The longer they wait the more it's going to be. The Phils are still printing money in South Philly. At least for this year.— mundiff
- The Phillies biggest mistake was signing Howard to that enormous contract. He is literally and figuratively an immovable object. Your best bet is to trade Utley to the AL (where he can play 1st, 2nd and DH). And use $$$ on Hamels.— intheweeds
- Meh. Hindsight is 20-20. Yeah, Howard's contract looks huge, but even if all he does is repeat the numers of the past couple of years for the rest of his deal - 30+ HRs, 100-110 RBI, and an .850ish OPS - we will get some value out of the deal...guys like that do not grow on trees. We also got TREMENDOUS value out of the front-loaded years of Utley's contract...and it only has one more year to run after this year. The real head-scratcher here is Rollins' deal - we had a guy who was close to ready in the minors (who we now know in fact WAS ready), and we could have signed a one-year stop-gap to buy Galvis a little more time.
The problem is the mother-lode (i.e. the new TV deal) isn't until after the 2015 season. If both the Phillies and Comcast were smart, they would rip up the existing deal this upcoming offseason, with the Phillies throwing Comcast a bone on the overall value of the contract, and Comcast giving the team the additional financial flexibility in 2013 to take care of Hamels before he walks. It is certainly in Comcast's best interest to give the Phillies the financial flexibility to keep this team together - good programming means good ad revenue.
It does NOT help the Phillies cause, however, if Comcast cuts a deal to help the Philles out this upcoming offseason...only to have RAJ sign idiotic deals like the one for Rollins. - Hamels didn't waste 2009. At the time he was a 2-pitch pitcher. Developing the cut fastball, the 3rd pitch, in 2010 is what elevated his game. Whether you think Howard's deal was smart or not, the fact is that it's going to affect what the Phillies can do for several years. No way they can bring everyone back. Of the soon-to-be Phillies free agents, I'd put Hamels and Ruiz as 1 and 2. 7 years is a long time, though, and I'd have reservations about that long of a deal, especially when you'd expect that pitcher to be the 220+ inning work horse. That would put Hamels at around 2,800 IP at the end, more than where Halladay is now.— ijj
- He also pitched almost 250 inning at the age of 24. A huge increase in innings over 2007 .Nobody should have been surprised he didn't have a great year. If a mid 4 era is his worst year in his career he will be one of the best pitchers of his era, — pattymac3
Comment removed.- Good, Enjoy watching T-ball games.
— mwcnabb - Great analysis Murph, I've said all along that it's a no-brainer to resign such a high end home grown talent. Plus, as your article alludes to Matt Cain's deal pretty much set the low end of the market, I honestly think Cole is better and is worth more. If Ruben's not going to go for at least 6 years I guess we'll be losing our WS MVP because I'll be shocked if someone doesn't pay him. I wonder how Ruben's gonna spin that one for the fans .....this isn't the Jayson Werth situation.— frisch16
- Agree with dblankj, Hamels will end up signing for somewhere above $170 million. The whole "respect" thing isn't just about having your team respect you. It's also about status among your peers. Dodgers will offer him the largest contract ever for a pitcher, plus the chance to perform in a major media center, so how do Cole and Heidi turn that down? "Hollywood Hamels," the nickname is going to fit more than ever.— wmichael
- Hey john carey what do you care you're so thrifty you probably don't watch the Phils 'cause you won't pay for cable
— frisch16 - Shane is gone...no way they give this guy multiple years.Dumb player....Hamels gotta get it done. #tradeclifflee— phillyceltic
- Lets see. I can wake up every morning on Malibu Beach or I can wake up in West Chester Pa? Hmmm See Ya Philly. Its been nice but I wanna go home and pitch in Dodger Blue.
Then the Phils need a full court press to get Josh Hamilton who will infuse the fanbase and fill the seats.
— joe smith - Bottom line is this team has a great deal of salary difficulties to sort through and tough decisions will need to be made. The injuries to Howard and Utley don't help as their contracts may be dead money. I don't see how they can't sign Hamels but would expect one of the other big 3 to be traded in order to do so. The days of Halladay, Hamels and Lee are numbered.— JBinPA
- Amaro should be fired for mishandling these negotiations. It made no sense not to lock him up long term in the offseason and let him play on a one year tender. Like he did with Cliff Lee, he will now have to pay at least 30 million more than he would have had he locked him up before the season. Meanwhile, he gave Rollins a 4 year deal when no one else was interest in him.— jdimaggio555
- I think the Phillies were waiting to see how Hamels responded to his offseason surgery. They didn't want to sign him long term without knowing if he was 100% back to form. Can't really fault them for that. — Sam Crow
- All I am saying is look at the body of work..does he deserve Sabathia money? no. Does he even deserve Lee money? probably--if the Dodgers are going to pay him 175 million..which in itself is a ridiculous sum of money--do I think the Phils should match it? Well, I'm just glad I'm not big Rube right now...— Shemp Howard
- This is a very good column, particularly the part relating to contracts, money and ego. All numbers aside, what's most relevant is that Hamels is the only elite Phillie who still, barring injury, has prime years in front of him. Seems to me if they let him get into free agency the numbers will get crazy, so they better pay what it takes to sign him now.— 2dsacker
- He grew up an hour from LA. The Dodgers have new owners, a good team and Money to spend. Hamels can get whatever he wants from them and have to take a beating in the American League.— farley
- Censored yet again......— Mark1npt
I think there is a reason the Phillies haven't resigned Colbert and won't. It will be interesting to see what the Phillies get for the pseudo-ace in a trade that's coming sooner than later. The good news for Colbert is that with the only teams that can pay this kind of money he'll still be a No. 2 or 3 just like he likes it.— TomO- I'm a little confused as to how you're sure that Cole "likes" being a 2 or 3. He's ace quality pitching in a rotation with two other aces. Just becuase his turn in the rotation isn't the first, doesn't mean he's not a #1 starter that 20 teams would love to have. — PHLSG22
- Agree. And one of those 20 teams plays in Philadelphia. Hamels IS our #1, and our ace, and our stopper. Whatever you want to call it and however you want to measure it, this season, that's what he is. There's no "pseudo" in front of any of those. The "reason" the Phils haven't signed him is that they're so hamstrung with high-cost contracts on non-performing players that at some point they're going to be way over the luxury tax cap just to put a team on the field, let alone absorb a $25 million per year hit on his new contract. — wmichael
- @PHLSG22 and wmichael - don't bother responding to TomO. He has some odd and unreasonable prejudice against Cole, probably because of his high pitched voice or because he wishes he had a hot wife like Heidi. TomO likes to infer that "Colbert" is gay and enjoys calling him "fake tough" and other silliness because of TomO's own insecurities and conflicted "man love" issues. — Sam Crow
- Sam: I don't "imply" any such silly, personal meaning but I do imply the Phillies think Colbert is suspect. If it is such a a slam dunk to resign him why hasn't it happened? You "infer" your point (learn the meaning of the two words) which is very insightful to your makeup. It's true, I don't like Colbert as a baseball player because I think he's narcissistic baseball player. I root for him in the Phillies uniform but I don't hear his teammates rallying around him like they do with Halladay and Lee. I use psuedo because I don't want to copy Jayson Stark's description of Colbert as a near-ace. Also, do me a favor and don't respond to my posts. Sam Crow creeps me out. — TomO
- TomO, you have a personal bias against Hamels. Just admit it. There's absolutely no evidence to prove Hamels is narcissistic. You are projecting your own biases opinions based on what he looks like, nothing more. Unless you know him personally, stop slandering his reputation. — Sam Crow
- And one more thing. Expect me to respond to your posts each and EVERY time you slam Hamels for non-performance related issues. If you are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to my response to your opinion. — Sam Crow
- If Hamels was so narcissistic as you claim, why would he pitch most of the 2011 season with bone chips in his elbow? A player who cares more about themselves than the game would not pitch through that and opt for surgery immediately so they could increase their value. The Phillies are on record of saying they want him back and they've told Hamels how important he is. If they don't think he is worth an elite level contract, there are many teams who do. I love the people who make these claims about athletes without knowing the first thing about them other than what they see on TV in a game. This narcissistic opinion is not brought on by any evidence other than a personal bias, for whatever reason you have. We are all entitled to our opinion, but I would ask you where you got this idea in your head about him — PHLSG22
- I'm not a capitalist, and shudder at the god greed. I know a lot of people who've been turned off to baseball because of the auction that it has become, disdaining team or city loyalty, etc. The loot for these TV stars is obscene, and more should go to the cities that house the teams, much more, and more to retired players who were not privy to bubbled salaries.
That said, they should sign him and forego signing Victorino for sure. I'm not a materialist, and am not impressed with folks with lots of money. Murphey's right, these contracts are not about needs, it's about an adolescent ego manifestation. Before Marvin Miller sports was all about too much power for ownership. Now the players have too much power. Need to find a balance.— retzlaff - David, your article is SPOT ON. Finally someone talks the truth. I've always am shocked that fans ask the rediculous question or make the comment "why wouldn't he want to stay for less money, he started here..." etc. etc. That is the most ridiculous comments that I hear. Would I move for 50% more money, ABSOLUTELY. It's all about the family and what you can provide and if you have the opportunity to build your wealth for you kids, family etc., you DO it, PERIOD.
We are human and our wants usually outweigh our needs.
Any for anyone that brings up Cliff Lee, he took less than what was offered him from the Yanks but the fans spit on his wife, so to him personally that would have been unconscionable to go there.— LAFlyer - If I was in Hamels' shoes, or any other high-priced free agent, I would choose the team with the best chance of winning a championship. That ain't the Phillies.— brio
- Hamels should have been signed in the off-season. When he wins the Cy Young this years watch his plane leave this PHL Int. Airport. Plenty of money to lure him away.— A. Martinez
- So Murphy make $80,000 writing sports? Not bad. Maybe I shouldn't have given up sports writing to become a teacher. No joke.— fgdavis
- With regards to the ego and respect issue....the Cards showed tremendous loyalty, class and respect toward Pujols. They wanted to give him 10 years too, Murph. Sure, their overall package was 10-20% less than what the Angels offered. But to be shown the respect he was shown, to have had as much success as he had, to be revered as deity in your community and loved by millions....he still left anyway. Even when the Cards pleaded with him and explained to him that this was the best and most they could afford to do, he still walked. When you are gonna make a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS, do you really need "just a little more" to feel really, really respected? What a joke. What Cliff Lee did was really driven home into perspective that day. I'm still not sure that people really get it, what he did, bucking the MLBPA union to sign here for less money. Cole deserves a lot of money, I want him to get a lot of money, I'm sure the Phils will make a generous and "respectful" offer, maybe even open their books to him(?), but in the end, does he have the stones to take a little less and stay like Cliff did, or does he walk? IMHO, I'll bet you a dollar he already has the pair of sneakers he's going to wear picked out.— Mark1npt
- Question is, WHERE will you be apartment hunting, Murph?— Sam Crow
- I CANT STAND THIS KID. I SURE WOULD LIKE TO BEAT HIM DOWN.— bbewsirhc
- Well, if the Dodgers are going to offer $170M/7 yrs, you might as well trade him now and get something in return. I say don't bother to hold on to him even if you're still in the race. You could restock this team for years to come. It will be UNFORGIVABLE to let him walk out of here with nothing to show for it. Hamels is the biggest chip Amaro will ever have in his pocket. If he doesn't play it, then he's a fool. Teams are salivating to get Hamels. Amaro could potentially land 3 top prospects for him and probably more. Amaro is earning his money.— Sam Crow
- Highly doubt he'd land any more than one elite prospect with the way the new CBA is structured. A team that would trade for Hamels will no longer recoup a first round draft selection. That right is reserved for players that have been with their team an entire year. No way will they trade him. — PHLSG22
- I don't know much about the new CBA. What if a team they trade with negotiates a long term contract with Hamels, first (like the Phillies did with Halladay)? If a team knows they can lock Hamels up, they'll surely offer more than just one elite prospect. — Sam Crow
- Well there is a maybe .05% chance that a team would work out an extension with Hamels upon a trade. Here are the reasons why that will most likely not happen.
1. Halladay had a year left on his deal w/ TOR when he signed an extension, and it was already the offseason. Summer trades have a much smaller window to get done, and add the time to work out an exension, it's just highly unlikely.
2. Hamels would be the first player (off the top of my head) that would agree to this type of an extension. He'd already be so close to FA, I can't see that happening, could you?
3. The big draw with teams giving up a bunch of prospects in the past (Sabathia 08, Lee 09) was that if the player walks, that team can recoup a first round draft pic as well as a supplemental pic in order to restock some of the prospects used in a trade. This provision is no longer possible due to the new CBA only allowing a compensatory pic for FA's that depart who are with their teams for the entire season.
4. Overall shift on belief in prospects. I truly believe that teams nowadays value their own young prospects more so than ever. It's getting tougher to acquire talent in summer trades than before, and will continue to be tricky unless the team is all in— PHLSG22 - I understand your points. I guess I'm thinking mostly about the Dodgers, and their admitted interest to signing Hamels long term. If Hamels wants to go there (which we don't know but assume he does), he might sign a long term deal as part of a trade. The Dodgers might be so thrilled to have him join their staff for THIS year's playoff push that they'd sacrifice at least two top prospects to get him. The Angels might be another landing spot for Hamels as well. I don't think Cole would sign a long term deal as part of a trade with any other team including the Yankees, however.
If it was a perfect world and the Phillies can't sign Hamels, I'd rather they trade him to the Angels and get two top ML players in return. Do the Angels have any decent 3B prospects? I'd much rather see him pitching in Carnelian Red than Dodger Blue.— Sam Crow - You're purposely skewing by not including Wins and Losses— Blue Hens Rule
- Are you referring to Hamels W/L record? As I stated earlier, you are aware that Wins are a horrible measure for a pitcher's value, right? — PHLSG22
- Some people on here just don't get it -- that runs scored correlates highly with wins. In a sport where the team with the most runs wins!!
Maybe this will help some people who still have this mental blockage. This season, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw, Anibel Sanchez and James MacDonald (2 stars, 2 solid pitchers) have ERA's between 2.20 and 2.57 and WHIP's between 0.89 and 1.07 -- and a combined W-L record of 16-11. Meanwhile, Cole Hamels, Jered Weaver, Chris Capuano and Lance Lynn (same assortment) have ERA's between 2.14 and 2.61 and WHIP's between 0.93 and 1.07 -- and a combined W-L record of 29-4.
The HUGE difference is because the first group has average run support in the bottom third of MLB, and the latter group's run support is in the top third... Kershaw is pitching as well or better this year than he ever has, but is on a pace to go 12-9. That's because his run support is 104th of 121 pitchers -- almost exactly the level of run support Hamels had for all of the 2008, 2010 and 2011 seasons!— PhilaLogic 
I don't mean to offend anyone, but a lot of you guys are just not good at math. :) The Phillies are in no way strapped for cash or backed into some financial corner. Even without the Comcast deal.
— zubzub- Its a mgt decision as long as the ownership is "all in". RAJ has stated he wants to win with pitching. Hamels is the best current option to go along with Lee and hopefully, Halladay for the next two seasons. Worley will man the #4 spot for some time to come and some of the Baby Aces should be ready (Trevor May anyone?). As for Victorino, I'd hate to loose him, but its time to put up or shut up with Dom Brown. I agree that Polanco/Victorino will be shown the door. Mayberry Jr. is a good fielding option in center. Personally, I'd try to get eithe Carlos Quinten/Kevin Youkliss on board. Either right handed bat will give much needed protection for Howard. Makes a line up pretty dynamic if/when healthy. Hamels is owed it if only the fact that he is "home grown" and Lee/Halladay got huge dollars w/o ever winning a world series. Sometimes, you do have to pay it forward. Hamels should remain a Philly for life and be put in similar conversations as other great Philly Lefties. This team is on the cusp of transition, yet with some promise as the year moves onward. I like what I'm seeing even though the treading of water is a night after night Zantac moment— drhoffman
- I agree with everything you said. But I'm not hopefully Amaro will go to 7 years. Surely another team will offer him a 7 year deal, and Hamels would probably have to pull a "Lee" and take a lesser deal to stay a Phillie. I think everything hinges on Hamels and what he really wants. Hamels is driving the cart, now... — Sam Crow
- Remember the scene in Moneyball where the kid is telling Billy Beane that it is not about the money but wins ........
The question will be........
Do the Phillies see Hamels as a dominating pitcher for years to come who will win a certain number of games for them.
After that.......
They can decide on the money part.
It now would look impossible to sign both Hamels and Victorino.
Both have brought a lot to the table over these last few years.
My guess is, if they both go to free agency, other teams will be able to outbid the Phillies because of their payrolls.
There are a bunch of teams out there that believe they are that one player away from winning it all. Many of them have more available money that they Phillies without going over the cap.
Hunter Pence is another free agent soon that will command big bucks. Not the best of situations for the Phillies !
— candidly - Hey, I love the guy but I wouldn't go over 5 years. Chances are (Doc) the arm will have issues at some point. 5 yrs. $125 sounds reasonable to me.— RonC1
- its all bs , get the money.........flake out later.......— james bond
- its all bs , get the money.........flake out later.......— james bond
- Pitching is still the key to winning....SIGN HIM.....sorry Polanco, Victorino......good numbers but 5 years...— nuggett
- Should have been done last off-season at the expense of not resigning Rollins and dumping Utley to the Angels. How much is he worth?? Well until this year - more than Lee - slightly less than Doc; only if you don't include age & time. Now - he's by FAR the most valuable asset the Phil's have and Giles and Monty had better get this one right and done.— Northcountry
- 6 year 150m. thats what he should get— Phishface
- Was telling the Phillies to sign him 2 years ago. They didnt listen.— Apollo Creed
- When he ends up jumping ship to another team because the front office mismanaged too many horrendous contracts, it will officially be the beginning of the end for the Phillies as a contender in this era... until they sign their new TV deal in a couple years and overpay some other aging star. It really is a shame, Hamels can never be truly appreciated around here until he's gone, and probably hoisting trophies somewhere else. Pay dat man heese mahney!!!
- clueless rube locks up declining, overpaid and/or injured Howard, Rollins, Halladay, etc and then doesn't have money to lock up the one real star with the best future.. every move he made and makes is a lesson on how not to run a baseball team— warbiscuit
- The "it's all relative" is true up to a point. Those making 15-20 mil per year don't alter their lifestyle hardly at all if they are making 25 mil. That is where the loyalty factor comes in. If Hamels gets an offer of twice what he is being offered by the Phillies, well he'd be foolish to decline.
BTW, 24's dad knows everything.— Sackbutt - Tough call no more than 5yrs. pitchers scare me you never know when they break down. The phils are not in a good place with their every day players,the Howard contract is a killer I don't see him being the same player he was,lets hope the kids on the farm come up quickly and do well,— angrywhtguy
- A top 10 starter in his prime, in the mix for Cy Young again, with a WS MVP in his back pocket? Show him the money! Shane is a fan favorite and a favorite of mine, but trading him might be our last and best resort.— otown philly fan
- Let me pick at a myth here:
"1) Hamels has spent his entire career in one of the more extreme home run parks in the majors."
Truth: CBP is **NOT** a home run park. It plays at about MLB average !!! Last year the factor was 1.03. The dimensions may seem small, but it plays much larger, probably because it's only 10-20' above sea level. See
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor
for more park stats. You can see on this page that CBP is right in the middle -- tied for #15 out of 30 parks.— Xyzzyx - They are strapped to the extent that they plan to remain below the luxury tax threshold, not because they necessarily have too in terms of plain old cash on hand. Go ask the cigar billionaire for more, if you need cash; however, only part of the tax problem has to do with paying it. Another aspect is the organization having no part of being the top spender in MLB, and all that entails. They're not ready for that sort of national scrutiny if it only makes them one of four teams capable of winning the division. At any rate, they have a business plan in place. No doubt FO bonues are involved and dependent on the team's net operating margin. They took their shot in 2010-2011 and it didn't work. Now it's a matter of keeping as many people coming while they struggle with decline. Sign Hamels and we might have MiniMart playing 3B next year. I think it's a long shot, but hope they figure out how to have their cake (Hamels) and eat it too (huge positive net operating margin).— RRinVA
- Apartment hunting the next day? Is that a promise Dave? The Big Apple is waiting for you, start packing.— daystrum
- The more time passes, the more I think Cole is playing the good soldier now and walking to LA at the end of the year. And it is ALWAYS about the money, whatever the money reasons happen to be.— PhillySubsMac
- Hamels will be traded, if the P's are out of it and only to the Red Sox for Will Middlebrooks and other top prospects. In fact that could happen sooner than later. Book it.— chucke9
- It appears it will take the most money ever to sign Hamels. It gets to a point where it may be worth using that money on a player who can play every day. I don't know if a player like that is available. I worry about having too many players with huge contracts getting injured. It's not Hamels' fault that Howard is hurt and Halladay is hurt (and 35 years old). It gets too the point where what you get isn't worth what you pay for.— AvoidSundanceVacations
- Furthermore, when the Phillies decided they were going to be big spenders, maybe they should have taken care of Hamels first then went after Halladay and Lee (and Howard). That moght have been their biggest mistake.— AvoidSundanceVacations
- While Hamels is worth a bundles, two words come to mind: Ryan Howard. He just began his contract extension and where is he? Will he ever be the Big Bopper he was before. Sign Hamels toseven years and he blows his arm next season. Then what? Six more year of hoping he can come back from Tommy John surgery? What if they sign Hamels then have nothing left to sign some hitters? Are the fans going to wait a few years for the club to grow some home talent or go the bargain basement route again because they have 3/4's of their money tied up in half a dozen players?— mike l
- The question is whether Ruben has enough guts to trade Hamels before July 30 if we're still within playoff reach, yet Hamels is not close to being signed. The answer here: Amaro is willing to do that in a corner, and he will tell Hamels' agent that. In turn, they're in a position of pitching for a new club and hoping that goes well, and Cole stays injury free. Question for us: What do we get for trading an outstanding rent-an-ace?
— eman - @PHLSG22-Seriously? yes. What peripherals are u talking about?
"I wonder if the Phillies took Cliff Lee's 2007 into account when he was so bad he was left off the playoff roster at age 28. My guess is no"— Maybe they should have.
— P Even - People get real Cole is GONE. He is LA bound. I can almost guarentee it. LA Has lots of cash with new ownership and he is an LA guy through and through. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him resigning with the Phils.— mbutley
- He's definitely not an "LA guy". San Diego and Los Angeles are different places. That would be similar to comparing Pittsburgh to Philadelphia. Heck, even NY and Philly are more alike than LA and San Diego. — Sam Crow
- The Phils need to sign Hamels long term ASAP. Letting him go to another team is foolish. Get it done, RAJ!— Fly Guy
- No news here, and it has to be one of Murph's goofier outings--fuhevah! That's where CH's price tag has been for some time--$20+M a year.— BEMiller
- The more pertinent question is what will Hamels bring in a trade in the next month? Please don't let Ruben Amaro have anything to do with it. He has done enough damage already and would likely get less than the Gillies, Aumont, and Ramirez he got in the faux three-way trade for Halladay.— jtj06
- The Phillies don't seem to value players like Werth, Hamels, Madson, and even Myers. None of these guys were ever offered the year before their final year of their contract. They opted to give Cole 15 mil this year on a 1 year deal last year which he accepted in good faith. Now, he will stick it to them as well he should.— djmarco
- $200 Mill 5 years, lifetime supply of cheesesteaks, free parking anywhere in Philly.— gmr18901
- How do you "value" something like this? Cole Hamels' "value" on the open market will be whatever someone is willing to pay him.
We assume that some team (like the Dodgers)is going to be willing to pay him $170M for a 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (pick one) contract. Why should Hamels accept anything less? He worked himself into a position where he has earned the right to "listen" to other offers.
On the other hand--the Phillies right now are competing against themselves and a future unknown "value"--they want to keep him--but they do not want to "overvalue" him.
I don't think there is a right or wrong--I think it is just the way it is.
I find it very ironic that many of the same people that are pounding Ruben for not signing (and assuming that he had control of the situation) Hamels earlier are the same people that are critical of him for doing exactly that with the contracts Utley and Howard and the signing of Lee and Halladay (now).
I personally would love to see the Phillies sign Hamels and keep him in Philly for the next five years at least--but there are at least two sides to this negotiation and I think Hamels is doing the right thing (for himself) in letting the market set his value--as Werth proved--even the Washington Nationals can look enticing if the paycheck is large enough--which I think is Murph's point.
I think good healthy debate is important and disagreement is fine— Smoothellc - For the love of god, Sign Hamels. F'in christ, what the hell is taking so long......— feudal_nobility09
- If anything pitchers are a dime a dozen. Keeping Hamels would be nice, but it's not worth it. As for Hamilton, he's an injury prone addict on the wrong side of 30 having a career year in what is his walk year. Only a moron wouldn't realize what was going on there. Signing him will turn out to be a disaster.— lazyboy
- Oh, and as for the player, it is for sure about the money. Respect? Lol. If it was about respect how come they aren't lining up to give it back when the contract turns out to be a bust. You think Zito, Bay, Werthless, Blanton etc etc are feeling "respected" for their bloated contracts? Journalists must be into weird drugs.— lazyboy
- Well written article; hard to believe that we wouldn't re-sign the, arguably, best pitcher to ever come out of our farm system. Totally agree, btw, that the mad money associated with these huge pro contracts aren't really about spending power but about ego...it's just another statistic that measures your value and status. And don't forget the desire of the athlete's agent for the biggest contract, both for the commission and reputation for potential future clients.— chesapeake
- @lazyboy, I agree with you....while I love Hamels in our rotation, unless he's willing to sign a 3-4 year contract I don't do it as I don't believe(as a PT with 30 years experience) that his elbow will make it out of the 3rd year with the 4th being a bonus for all the good he's done for us. I would never give him a 5,6 or 7 year deal as he will never make it that far without additional arm issues.
@chesapeake, you have to understand, it's not Monopoly money here, it's the real stuff. Hamels is a very, very good pitcher but you can't give him 7 years worth of money when he'll probably only make it to year 3 because of his elbow. After being correct on yet another pitcher and his elbow (Contreras) I wish you all and Amaro, would just heed my warning.— Mark1npt - Another Murphy article about Hamels' contract. There's something you don't see everyday....just every other day. You badly need to find something else to write about this season besides the broken records about Hamels' contract and the Phillies offense not scoring enough runs every game.— JimG
On the rise? Really? How about showing us you can at least beat the Marlins first.— Nailz- That article is entirely too long to state some obvious stuff. The contract number will be between 20-23 million a year. The Phillies are offering 5 years. There is a very good chance another team will step in and at least try to steal him with an extra year or two. Nothing else to analyze. As a reporter you should be trying to find a source to tell you exactly what the phillies offer to Hamels. As for the analogy you make between "civilians" offered raises, it is what is called a straw man and you rigged all of the numbers to make your point. Personally, I know a lot more regular joes making 50-70k a year who have turned down lucrative transfers to stay in the area that they consider home, surrounded by family, friends and their community. These raises are way more significant to them than a guy like Pujols taking 250 million over 190 million(after playing for over 200 million to that point). The real question is why would you take the money over getting to choose where you live? Bite me with the burning drive drivel. Ego, yes, but not in an admirable way as you seem to see it but in the way that points you out as a toolbag.— UncleStosh
- Pay the Man. You have to at least keep two of the BIG three. Halladay will be gone next year or the year after. He has a player option in 2014 if he pitches more than 200 innings. Lee has a trade claus after his 5th year. Plus the core players are going to be older other than Howard. So we need at least two Stud Pitches to help rebuild the team in 5 to 7 years. We have many stud Pitchers down on the farm that will/could help the team in 3 to 5 years. We just need to stop the Free agent buying and re load on some everyday players.— DocPhillyfan
- The core is the same age. By and large they all came up together with the exception of Rollins. The Utley, Howard, Victorino gang all debuted around the same time. This is the major problem with this team. They all came up together and they aged together. However they weren't replaced on the farm. Their spots in the farm were dealt and redealt to get the quick fix like Halladay and Lee not the lesser players like Blanton (2008). We ended up expending something like 7 minor league prospects on Cliff Lee when it was all said and done. There is no excuse for that. They never should have gotten rid of him to begin with and they could have gotten Halladay and still kept Lee. All of our position players are years away. Some are already in their prime and are just not going to pan out so what is the point?? Dom. Bown is one of them. He is just brutal. So, time to reload and hopefully snag someone in the draft. They are going to need a catcher, a shortstop, a thirdbaseman, and outfield. It's a shame they have nothing in the system. Youkilis is available. He's serviceable for the time being and could play firstbase for them if needed. Right now, they need money and it is a commodity they just don't have. They hamstrung themselves with topheavy pitching contracts. Get rid of those and nurture the minors. That is the way back. — dmair714
- If it cost you Victorino and Pence, No way I dont think so. Dont be so sure its going to be 7 years either. Hamels is among games best pitchers but I wouldn't go beyond 5 years at 110 with 5 mill buyout for 5th year. Teams have learned you can get burned bad with 7 year deal. You can get burned with a 4 year deal with injury to pitcher in first or second year. Im aware this can cost you the pitcher. No team wants to go 6 or 7 years with Hamels but there may be some team so enticed by Hamels talent they will go for 6 or 7. Heath will loose closer role before season is over. Pierre has been great.— Don w
- The bigger question is what do the Phils do if they don't have Hamels signed by the trade deadline. If they haven't signed him by then, are they going to risk letting him walk and getting nothing in return?
They should have signed him last year but here the Phils are and Cole can call the shots now. He can just wait since it's so close. The Phils gave Howard a deal 2 years before they needed to do anything and they're letting hamels go down to the wire.— Fan74 - Ok...the article was repleat with great stats and rightfully so. With the exception of Halladay, over the past 4+ season, Hamels has been the most consistent pitcher the Phillies have had. No one should say anything about the year Lee had last year. He had two historic months; one proceeded by 2 awful ones and one in between 2 mediocre ones. He should have been a .500 pitcher last year. My view is trade Hamels, Lee, Victorino, Pence. Get what you can for them. Fire Amaro. Just fire sale it. Forget the option year on Halladay. Let him walk or trade him. Save the money. Honestly they never should have resigned Rollins. He's a terrible leadoff hitter, always has been, and has lost a step. They should be restocking the farm system, developing the farm system, and leaving it alone. Stop gutting it for players who are on the wrong side of 30 and giving bad contracts. That Lee contract and Howard contract have hamstrung this team. They could have gone out to get Fielder by allowing Howard a year ago. They'd be a better position now. Also, what happens to Galvis once Utley comes back. That kid is playing is tail off. Is it thanks kid, back to the minors, or is it sit down Utley your best years are behind you?? Gillick would have done better at this. This whole debacle rests squarely on Amaro's shoulders. Write this season off, go through a few lean years, lick the wounds, strengthen the farm, and come back strong. That's what the Red Sox, Yankees, Braves, and we did. Funny how that gave championships, and divisional runs. By the way...has anyone noticed that since Ruben took over the Phillies have done better in the regular season but have fizzled in the post season earlier and earlier each year to lesser opponents each time?? Just a thought.— dmair714
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