Phils add three veteran arms
The Phillies may be a little slim on the corner outfield spots as spring training nears, but they should have plenty of pitching depth.
Phils add three veteran arms
Ryan Lawrence, Daily News Staff Writer
The Phillies may be a little slim on the corner outfield spots as spring training nears, but they should have plenty of pitching depth.
The front office, which has been mostly quiet since the holidays, added to the pitching staff’s inventory in the last week by reining in three veterans.
The Phils have reached deals with right-handers Juan Cruz, Aaron Cook and Rodrigo Lopez. All three will be in camp as non-roster invitees on minor league contracts.
Cruz, 34, is 38-36 with a 4.05 ERA in 447 major league games in 12 seasons. He went 1-1 with a 2.78 ERA in 43 games with Pittsburgh last season, striking out 33 while walking 19 in 35 2/3 innings.
The 33-year-old Cook, who has spent the majority of his career with Colorado, went 4-11 with a 5.65 ERA in 19 games (all starts) with Boston in 2012. According to a foxports.com report, Cook will earn $1.625 if he’s on the Phillies major league roster.
Over the weekend, the Phils also added Lopez.
The 37-year-old Lopez went 3-1 with a 3.62 ERA in five starts for the Phillies in 2009. He made just four appearances with the Cubs last season, spending the majority of the year at Triple-A Iowa (2-5 with a 5.28 ERA in 18 games, 15 starts).
This is business as usual for the Phillies. In recent years they’ve added the likes of Dontrelle Willis, Joel Pineiro, Brian Sanches, Gary Majewski, Raul Valdes, Dave Bush, Kris Benson and Scott Elarton before spring training.
Some were released before the end of camp, some stuck around to help Triple-A Lehigh Valley and some have even managed to make the big league club at some point during the year.
Of course, some have also been Ryan Vogelsong and Jason Grilli, two former Camp Clearwater attendees who didn’t get the chance to graduate to the big league with the Phillies but went on to have a great deal of success elsewhere.
Comments (67)
Stupid Toolbiscuit comment in 3 2 1......— DogBiscuitthedope- Phils ownership gave Rube a $170million/yr budget and he p@#ed it away, so it's hard to criticize ownership for being "cheap" --just for being incredibly stupid and continuing to retain the incompetent Clueless Rube --if you subtract just 2 of Rube's most egreious misallocation of funds -- $125mil for a non-hitting over-the-hill d.h. and $50 mill on a choking non-reliable closer -- you'd have another $175 million right there to have spent on quality... all the top teams in baseball, other than Yanks and Dodgers still have budgets far far far below the Phils --and even the Yanks are being more conservative (while the Dodgers are in the midst of their nutty spending spree which may or may not work)... problems with Rube are infinite, including the fact that after over-spending on "names" who aren't worth anythig close to what he paid (Howard, Papelbon, etc) , when he then tries to get "low risk high reward" players he has such little ability to evaluate talent that he strikes out practically 100% of the time and just gets useless trash that nobody wants (Aaron Cook, Dontrelle Willis, Pineiro, Rodrigo Lopez, etc --all laughable)— warbiscuit
- The minor league deals have no effect on the major league payroll unless one of those guys is good enough to be offered a major league contract. Also no effect on luxury tax.
In that regard, there's little harm in inviting guys to camp unless you end up with minor league roster problems as a result. And there may be some effect on related minor league budgets (one poster suggested maybe less international spending). That's really just conjecture though.
I would urge anyone who feels these minor league signings are a huge problem to go look at the signings other teams do in this area. I think you'll find a lot of the same. All teams add AAA experience as insurance before every season. You see some of these guys floating around on year-to-year minor league deals until Social Security kicks in.— s - Juan Cruz will prove to be the 7th inning right-hander. Nice job last year with the hopeless Pirates.— oakmontleo
- Maybe they can sign Kris Benson so they can bring his wife back.— alihajishank
- I also would like to knock the bottom out of Kris Benson's wife...— FetchDixon
- Nailed it. Warpuke=stupid remark right on time. Get a job-dope.— kingofpoker
- Is Ruben at Fantasy Camp scouting for more "no reward" "high risk" arms.— Dull
- Cool Senior citzens!— losteagle
- oakmont-pirates were not hopeless last year— sgamble077
- yup, you can count on the biscuit for hisdily moronic statement!— sgamble077
- RUBEN HAS PROMISED ME A JOB, 8TH INNING GUY. WHEN I AM RELEASED FROM PRISON!!— CHARLES MANSON
- get rid of Bastardo...— ricciaje
- You can never have enough pitching.....Cruz may stick, but the others are destined to be Iron Pigs— Phront_Runner
- More stupidity from sorebiscuit. This is a common practice - teams load up on longshots in the hope that even one makes a comeback, fills a niche or gives them flexibility on minor league rosters. All at little or no cost. It's how SF got Ryan Vogelsong as a non-roster invitee. Everyone criticizes that RAJ didn't get a Ryan Vogelsong but this is how the process works. And it's always a longshot. These moves are a no-brainer - which, by definition, should be something that sorebiscuit understands.— inky93
- I third the notion of knocking the bottom out of Anna Benson.
- i could pitch better than some of these clowns,....and i've been dead for over 40 years,......by the way-.....Floyd Rules!!— SyddBarrett
- Interesting sign in Cook as a ....5th starter if Lanan, KK cannot do it???? Losing 11 games is not what I would call , signing with CONFIDENCE.— Koons
- Never know what may happen with those three. SOmetimes you may find a diamond in the rough. Better than throw 50M at a dud of a stud pitcher.— Aces high
- Psst...Hey Rube, you need more than pitchers to play baseball— twpman
- @s -- i never said these deals were a "problem" becuase they cost money--problem is that Clueless rube strikes out on about 100% of these low risk signings becuase he has zero ability to spot talent so just wastes time getting leftovers that nobody else has the slightest interest in,,, and he lets go the guys that end up working out that fell into his lap accidetnally becuase he's such a putZ that he didn't even recognize what he had (vogelsong, Moss, Grilli) -- Rube isn't signing these guys because he has any inkling that they may be any good (unlike a Gillick or Sabean low-cost signing); he's just signing them cause they're "available" and calling it "depth" and he's merely into deep sh#$— warbiscuit
- I think most of these guys are misses for most teams. Very few turn into anything. But it's fair to criticize for the Grilli and Brandon Moss guys who they let walk.
— s - How is it fair to criticize letting grilli walk? Guy had an era between 5-6 for every organization (which was many) prior to San Fran. Exactly what would prompt RAJ to keep him? Please — DogBiscuitthedope
- I think it's fair. He had a 1.93 ERA at Lehigh. If you're picking up these guys looking for diamonds in the rough or turnarounds he was shining pretty brightly. Making roster space was maybe an issue but I believe all that was required was to give him a major league contract which would have meant adding him to the 40-man roster -- he would not have to have been called up (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). I don't know who was on the 40-man at the time but I do know we've had projects like Joe Savery on it for a while that appear to be going nowhere fast. It would have been a gamble but GMs are paid the big bucks to make the correct, calculated gambles. In that regard warbiscuit is correct. — s
- I might also add that when Grilli walked it was July. Remember how well that bullpen was pitching in June and July? I can still smell it ... like it's stuck on my shoe forever.
The Phillies do not get great grades from me for talent evaluation. Ed Wade really brought up the best core of talent. But he stunk at making in-season moves.— s - as I posted exactly one year ago: warbiscuit 1/16/12: "problem is NOT that they got Pineiro (or Willis for that matter)..problem is what they did NOT do -- all these meaningless bullpen and bench deals for low-cost garbage generally result in useless garbage (see, e.g. Baez, Schneider, Bruntlett, Herdon, Gload, etc) and Amaro has still failed to improve offense, bench and bullpen in 3 1/2 yrs - an intelligent g.m. does NOT max out his budget (as UncleStosh is correct on this score) by putting ALL his reliever budget into a single overrated and overpaid closer but instead gets multiple quality relivrs .. an intelligent g.m. does not put all his "offense" budget into a non-slugging so-called slugging 1st baseman with the rest of the offensive positions at best avg or below avg offensively and then can't afford a decent hitting 3rd baseman or any real quality on the bench, and major q's in the bullpen ... yes a team can get to the post-season just on the strength of its starting pitchign but the Amaro method is 0 for 3 in October and I doubt the numbers will improve as the team is actually getting worse---meanwhile he has also squandered the Phils quality prospects in his reckless manner of overspending for a few players, trading away all his prospects, while neglecting depth, balance, bench and bullpen, etc and the proof is in the pudding as he has never won squat"— warbiscuit
- airbiscuit says: "and $50 mill on a choking non-reliable closer". Did I sleep through 2012? Papelbon did the job he was brought in to do.— maurysline
- airbiscuit says: "and $50 mill on a choking non-reliable closer". Did I sleep through 2012? Papelbon did the job he was brought in to do.— maurysline
- warbiscuit will gladly outline the bad losses Papelbon had in 2012. There are some he lost where you'd expect a win. Personally, I have a different gauge but a similar set of concerns with Papelbon that only a trip to the post-season or two will answer. First, he is expensive. And there is an argument for instead having multiple cheaper relievers. It works either way for different teams so there's no one answer there. Second, the cracks in Papelbon's performance started showing the two years before we acquired him. It may be yet another case of the Phillies getting the right guy a few years too late. The last point, which is the big one to me is this: Papelbon's real value is in saves during the season and, maybe more importantly, for what he can offer in the post-season. He's only had one bad post-season. Like I said before, 6 post-seasons in a row giving up zero runs. Pretty impressive. But that was a younger Papelbon. We won't know if he still has that value and that one year was an anomaly until we see him in the post-season again. If we can't get there his signing will end up as at least some wasted money because that's what we got him for more than anything (my opinion). I think the chances of him not living up to the last year or two of his contract are very possible. His real value comes in getting to the post-season this year and next year. — s
- smart baseball men who can evaluate talent can find a "diamond in the rough".. a cluless imbecile like Rube hasn't found a single diamond in 4 1/2 years ..and to the contrary has given away about 20 prospects --some of whom will be diamonds -- and has given away for free 3 diamonds in the rough that he had (Voglsong, Grilli and Moss) and just overpays diamonds for the "rough" (howard, papelbum, blanton, ibanez, polanco, pence, etc)— warbiscuit
- Airbiscuit is drawing on his extensive experience as an MLB GM. Hey biscuit, what team were you GM of again?— maurysline
And in other breaking news ... Japan's SoftBank Hawks have signed Vicente Padilla ... argggghhhhhhhhhh! Damn you Ruben !
— zubzub- @maurysline --guess you've missed my numerous prior rants about the most overrated pitcher in baseball, so here they are, once again -
Papelbum's Greatest Hits 2012 (plus many more in which he gave up runs):
5/7 vs. Mets 3 ER, Loss;
6/4 vs. LA 1 ER, Loss;
6/23 vs TB 2 ER, Blown save;
7/5 vs. Mets 2 ER, BLown save, Loss;
7/18 vs. LA 2 ER, Papelbon Blown save leading to loss;
7/21 vs SF 1 ER, Papelbon Loss;
8/21 vs Cinc. 1 er, Papelbon Loss;
9/2 vs. Atl, up 7-3 with 2 outs to go; 2 inherited runs score, 3 more earned runs, Blown save, Loss..season over
Papelbon was the worst signing of last winter (per Stark of espn Feb '12 poll; fangraphs feb '12, many others), despite padding his stats with non-pressure saves against weak hitting teams -- he had 6 devastating losses and 4 blown saves that were as bone-crushing and season-detroying as anything else that wrecked the Phils season -- he has a mediocre to terrible WAR for past several years and hitters last year batted far over .300 against him when his pitch count gets to 15 -- no worse reliever to see on the mound in an important spot past few years than this one-dimensional loser-- good hitters foul off his straight fastball, work out a walk or wait for him to tire and then usualy shellack him in any big spot - he's not "elite" he's an annoying unreliable loser who would prevent the Phils from ever winning anything meaningful --even if the Phils were to ever improve -- until his contract expires in 2016— warbiscuit - fangraphs 6/7/10: "You may be surprised to learn that Jonathan Papelbon, he of 2.6 Wins Above Replacement per season as a full-time reliever from 2006-2009, is among the most egregious offenders. ..
In 24 innings pitched, the famed river dancer is walking a tight rope — his 3.00 ERA doesn’t look so bad, but his xFIP sits at 5.02. With -0.3 WAR, Papelbon has arguably been the least effective of Boston’s bullpen options..."— warbiscuit - Stark of espn 2/17/12: "with the help of 20 brilliant baseball men who took part in our annual spring-preview survey...Worst Free-Agent Signing: 1. Jonathan Papelbon, Phillies (4 years, $50 million)...— warbiscuit
- per fangraphs 2/8/12 "10 worst transactions of the winter..
#1 – Phillies Sign Papelbon for 4/50M... The Phillies overpaid and got a reliever, then had salt rubbed in the wound ... he’s not without his own set of risks. For a team that had other holes to fill, this just wasn’t a good use of resources, especially with the glut of relievers on the market. By exercising a little more patience, the Phillies could have walked away with a good closer, a real answer in left field, upgraded their bench, and had enough left over ...Instead, they decided to go all-in on a ninth inning upgrade that might not even turn out to be a big upgrade"— warbiscuit - Chris "Wheels" Wheeler texted from a bar in Florida that "all three guys have really nasty stuff, are innings eaters, and great guys to have in the clubhouse." He didn't say if he was out in the sun for too long or already 3 sheets to the wind.— Wilhelm Von Humboldt
- They just have to stay away from that middle-in stuff, because good hitters will sit on that.
— 1980 - Correction, I think, Mr. Lawrence. Lopez went 3-1 with a 5.70 ERA in five starts for the Phillies in 2009. You wrote that he had a 3.62 ERA. See... http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lopezro02.shtml (HTML deleted)— Squonk64
- Waiting for 24sDad to compliment warbiscuit on his brilliant analysis, as usual.— 1980
- @1980 -- not that i really care, but you're the strangest looony here yet, as I'm pretty certain that i never recall 24sdad agree with anything I ever said -- and don't even recall his basic thoughts re my major issue (getting a new g.m. to replace the current inept one) but honestly I'm not shy nor looony like many of you and take full responsibility for what I post as "warbiscuit" and often copy and re-post it (since some have taken to mis-quoting me) but for that very reason there woud be no rhyme or reason for me to post as someone else...now go back to your loooneyness— warbiscuit
- for Pete's sake, warbiscuit - get a dictionary and use it.— dwp66
- Furthermore, wb.......try not to break your arm patting yourself on the back.— dwp66
- I wish more comments came from warbiscuit. He is one of the few people on here who have even half a brain.— Dan in Holmesburg
- I notice that perhaps 25% of the posts are baseball-related (whether "nasty", as mine have tended to gravitate in past few years, or moderate in tone, like I noticed "s" tries to do) but all the rest are exclusively devoted to attacking other posters and have nothing to do with baseball (like dwp66, 1980, and dogbiscuitthedope above, and many many many others)... while i have gotten tired of the personal attacks and the "stalkers" and have taken to striking back at the nasty ones probably more than necessary, just to show I can dish it out as well as take it, I do share the "moderates" frustration at the tone here ,,,yes I am as guilty as anyone but it is simply in response to the ad hominem attacks and stalkers here .... and as for my "ad hominem" attacks on the g.m., the manager and the closer (the vast majority of my attacks are directed there), they aren't personal, I document them with facts and stats, and they're simply "public" figures doing poor jobs whom I continue to call out their errors, as a baseball-related discussion should do— warbiscuit
- "My attacks aren't personal" - says the guy who constantly calls the GM "Clueless Rube". You have no understanding of baseball, you are a doomsayer, whatever is currently in front of you is the worst thing in the history of the world. You constantly attack Amaro and praise Gillick, as if the two didn't work directly together all those years when Gillick was GM -- and STILL work together now that Gillick is Amaro's most trusted adviser. You want to complain about the tone and general inanity of the comments here, warbiscuit, you have nowhere to look but in the shiny reflection of your monitor.— Dante1138
- sorebiscuit actually saves his postings from a year ago so he can quote himself? LMAO. Maybe when his mom starts letting him date he'll get some other interests and spend less time trying to convince others that he's sane.— inky93
- @dante --do you have a single intelligent baseball-related thought or are you here to prove my point that most posters here simply scream and shout at other posters and don't have a single intelligent argument, except to assert something that is completely impossinble to prove or rebut ("Gillick is Amaro's most trusted adviser" --says who? prove it.."..."two didn't work directly together all those years when Gillick was GM " ... says who? prove it...)
Gillick is in the HoF for winning 3 World Championships and building 4 orgamizations into elite franchises; last I checked Rube, in 4 years, has won zero championships and has a middling mediocre team with one of the highest budgets in baseball and one of the worst farm systems.. can you substantiate a single thing you have to say or are you engaged in the following ad hominem attacks: "You have no understanding of baseball [sic], you are a doomsayer [sic], whatever is currently in front of you is the worst thing in the history of the world [sic]..."
you just proved my point— warbiscuit - @inky -the mom in basement jokes were old a decade ago— warbiscuit
- dante: substantiate your assertions -- you need practice in debating and logic --
"You have no understanding of baseball ..." Prove it --expand, present some examples of "lack of understanding"
" you are a doomsayer .." Prove it --expand, present examples of predictions of "doom" that were inaccurate...
"whatever is currently in front of you is the worst thing in the history of the world ..." Prove it --expand, present examples of something in present that was deemed to be "worst thing in history of world" ...
otherwise you display a very limited ability to communicate effectively— warbiscuit - phillies are better off playing bingo,,— hardball
- warbiscuit actually uses logic and facts to back up his claims. The people who bash him are either too lazy or too stupid to intelligently counter-argue, so they resort to name calling and put downs.— Bradley85
- @warbiscuit you prove MY point every time you post another comment. How is it impossible to prove that Gillick and Amaro work together? Amaro was the assistant GM under Gillick - he wasn't fetching coffee. And Gillick is officially an adviser to the team, and he and Amaro consult regularly. This is all on the record, it's not conjecture. Gillick was a great GM, but he made some awful moves here, too, lest we forget Freddy Garcia and Adam Eaton. And no GM hits a home run every year. No one operates in a vacuum. By your standards there is only one smartly run team in baseball, and that's whoever happened to get hot in the playoffs and win the WS in any given year. All one needs to do is look at all of your collective posts (one assumes you have them all saved) to see that you are constantly contradicting yourself. Basically, anything Amaro does that does not result in a Phillies' World Series championship every single year is tantamount to proving that the Phils are the worst run team in baseball, in your mind. Has he made some bad deals? Sure. He's also made good ones. He set up the team from '09-'11 to be in the best possible position to contend for a championship. The chips didn't fall where we'd all like them to, and now there is a lot of scrambling to eke something out of the last crack of this roster's contending window, but that's what happens in baseball - otherwise the Yankees would be winning every single year, and the 80 win Cardinals teams would never sniff the WS. I don't mind complaining when the team does something ill-advised, but when all your "solutions" are in hindsight and exist in a vacuum where the Phils don't need to contend with other teams with constantly evolving economics, you reveal yourself to be just another Chicken Little who will never be satisfied.— Dante1138
- @dante -- see there you wrote abut 20 lines and didn't even need to engage in ad hominem attacks until the very end ("just another Chicken Little who will never be satisfied")..as for your basic rebuttal it's specious -- bottom line is that neither you nor I truly know what role Rube may or may not have had in Philly success pre-2009 but the facts are incontrovertible that Phils have declined precipitously as a franchise since Rube took over .. but at least you tried ...you failed --like Rube -- but you tried— warbiscuit
- WOW !!!! BROAD STREET HERE WE COME.— lefty27
- @warbis: i would like to be on your side. a lot of the things you write i agree with. but, brother, you are like the elastic waistband on a favorite pair of very old underpants: you have stretched yourself beyond the point of being useful and keep sliding down to where you're an embarrassment. try clicking on some george carlin routines on youtube. george was highly opinionated, extremely negative and foul-mouthed. and brilliantly effective. this coz he was he was succinct. said his spiel, got his laughs, moved on. self-editing, warby: give it a try.— bubba church & granny hamner
- Nice analogy. I'm thinking a pair of old underwear offers endless possibilities for analogies in these forums -- beyond the elastic waistband and in into every aspect of the garment. The possibilities are endless ...
Your commenter prize is in the mail. Just send us your size and it will be on its way.— s - Juan Cruz racked up a lot of strike outs per inning in his heyday and still averages about one an inning the last two seasons.— escapedcamden4monterey
- DogBiscuitthedope - lol
— Zero - "the facts are incontrovertible that Phils have declined precipitously as a franchise since Rube took over"
2009-Acquired Cliff Lee, returned to the WS despite a huge drop-off from Cole Hamels and others.
2010-Acquired Roy Halladay and Roy Oswalt, had the best record in baseball, bounced by a team that got hot at the right time.
2011-Re-acquired Cliff Lee for below market value, repeated as best record in baseball, again bounced because the other guys got hot at the right time.
2012-Beset by injuries in the first half and falling 13 games under .500, the team rebounded when Utley and Howard returned to the line-up. From that point on they had the best second-half record of any team in baseball.
Yeah, they've really been a complete disaster since Rube took over. No one wins every year. All you can do is do your best to get to the post season, hope you get good match-ups, and hope you get hot. Amaro is not the greatest GM in the world, nor is he the worst. The Phillies have been consistently in contention for nearly a decade now and there are those of us that remember what things were like before, so forgive me if I don't freak out that we haven't won the WS in *gasp* four whole years.— Dante1138 - Exactly right. After getting Lee in 2009 Phils were 16-5 in Martinez and Lee's starts. 19-22 in the rest of the games. Fair to say they made the playoffs because of those two additions. And Phils won all 5 of Lee's starts in the playoffs where they won 9 games. Fair to say Lee had a big impact in Phils getting to the WS.
2010 - Phils were 3 games back of Braves when they got Oswalt. They won 10 of his 12 starts. That year acquired Halladay (Cy Young Winner) Gload, Valdez and Contreras ... who all contributed big time to the best record in baseball.
2011 - Acquired Lee. Had best record in baseball. Got Pence at the deadline (batted .320-something) hoping it would put them over the top.
Yeah. I'd fire the entire front office for the foolish moves they made.
PS ... compare the losses of Grilli, Vogelsong and Moss to the guys that were given away during Gillick's rein ... Floyd, Bourn, Gonzales. ?? Nuff said.— zubzub - never enough pitching no matter who they are,. ruben has not developed a single player since his arrival, he has consistently traded talent throughout the organization. now all they can do is sign who ever available. right now nearly every trade he's made, he has had his pocket picked.— stayoutofphilly
- Some of these "fans" are pretty rough on Ruben. It's pretty easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. You might recall that our previous general manager made some major mistakes along the way as well. Ruben isn't dumb. It's up to the players to play up to their capability. I think this core group- Utley/Howard/Rollins has one more World Series win in them. I would be surprised if they DON'T win it all this year.— Philsfan56
- not a big Aaron Cook fan and Rodrigo Lopez is . . well, Rodrigo Lopez, but Juan Cruz is interesting. Cruz has had lots of arm trouble but at one time his stuff was as good as anyone's. Don't know what its like now but I guess we'll all find out.— aintnorep
- I wish, when these articles were written, that we could all stay on-point a little bit. There is always reason for hope when we are talking about sports. That's why we like it, right. Fans are allowed to like their GM or dislike him, agree with him or disagree. They are even allowed to call them out and make up funny names ("Ruin Tomorrow Jr." is my new favorite). But, we shouldn't be attacking each other!! We all love the Phillies. I want them to win!! I want one or two of these pitchers to contribute. But, I am pessimistic b/c we have a GM that has a poor track-record when it comes to evaluating talent and making personnel decisions.— Copper34
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