Charlie and The Lineup Factory
After the front office added two new everyday players, Phillies manager Charlie Manuel takes a stab at the lineup.
Charlie and The Lineup Factory
Ryan Lawrence, Daily News Staff Writer
The last time Charlie Manuel addressed the Phillies beat scribes, we were all in Nashville having lunch and the front office hadn't done a thing to improve the roster.
But just before Manuel and Co. boarded a plane bound for Philly on Thursday, Manuel knew there was a very good chance he had two new pieces for his starting lineup. The Phils traded for center fielder Ben Revere and were awaiting word for Michael Young to accept the third base job.
On Monday, with most of his starting nine accounted for, Manuel tried to take a stab at his 2013 batting order.
"You know, when I think about it, Michael Young, I can hit him quite a few places," Manuel began. "And in the year, two years, Ben has mostly hit second. But, you know what. I can sit here and go over lineups all I want to, but when it really gets down to it, who we have on the corners and in the outfield, that's what is going to dictate where our lineup falls. You can say whatever you want to, but if you're going to have production, as far as RBI and runs scored..."
Like you, Manuel is waiting for the next move. And if history is any indication, there will be another move.
The Phils aren't going to run the foursome of Domonic Brown, Darin Ruf, Laynce Nix and John Mayberry Jr. into the final two spots in their outfield. After trying to fill one corner outfield spot with question marks in each of the last two seasons, there is no chance they go into 2013 with two question marks in the corners.
In 2011, the Phils hoped to replace departed free agent Jayson Werth with Domonic Brown. But Brown got hurt early in spring training, Ben Francisco struggled and the team eventually traded for Hunter Pence.
In 2012, the Phils hoped to replace departed free agent Raul Ibanez with John Mayberry Jr., who finished the previous season on a tear. But Mayberry never took hold of the job when the season began and was out-played by Juan Pierre, a limited veteran who played above the minor league contract he signed last winter.
The Phils could platoon one of those two spots in 2012 - say, Brown and Ruf in left. But they know they need a proven bat in the other spot, and after going cheap in center, they have money to spend, too.
Among the outfield bats still on the free agent market: Josh Hamilton, Nich Swisher and Cody Ross.
Since Charlie won't entertain a lineup until all of the pieces are in place, here's one man's guess. (I'm sticking Carlos Ruiz in there since he will be back as the team's regular catcher following a 25-game suspension).
1. Jimmy Rollins, SS
2. Michael Young, 3B
3. Chase Utley, 2B
4. Ryan Howard, 1B
5. Carlos Ruiz, C
6. Free Agent, RF
7. Darin Ruf/Domonic Brown, LF
8. Ben Revere, CF
9. Pitcher
Lets see if ' Babe Ruth ' Ruiz hits as consistently and with the same amount of power when he returns to the lineup before he is anointed as the Number 5 hitter.
The outfielder we are supposed to get - does it mean that you are suggesting that Brown and Ruf would only play against righties or lefties. I definitely don't like that. These are young players that need to play everyday to mature in every way - sitting them on the bench for extended periods is a sure fire way for them to fail. I cannot see why you just would'nt have traded Ruf to Texas for Olt if you were not planning on playing him every day.
I think Ben Revere and Dominic Brown could be used as pinch runners in games they don't start - ........If only somebody could convince Manuel that he should do that. He stubbornly leaves Ruiz and Howard in there when they reach base instead of running for them in late innings when we are behind by a run or two. He will have Ruf to add to slow runners in 2013 that will need to be pinch run for if he gets on in late innings.
Of the three outfielders mentioned, only Hamilton would be a difference maker. Swisher and Ross are over rated and probably would be overpriced.I would prefer to see the Phillies stand pat rather than get either one of these two.— candidly- i wonder if ross would fit with this team? also don't want Swisher or Ross for more than 1 year.
- @TomO: "And does anyone really think Utley will be ready after he prograstinated playing two years to get to the final year of his contract?"
Dude - what the F*** are you talking about?— schmenkman - I don't understand why everyone keeps dismissing the idea of Ruf being the full time left fielder. His short compact powerful swing would compliment the lefty due of Utley/Howard. Stop the insanity and go after another starter/back end of the pen arm.— drhoffman
- Well, I think it's funny that people are getting angry at Manuel for this projected lineup when it's the writer's lineup, not Manuel's. Manuel hasn't said squat about who will lead off because it's December. Once they have their whole lineup and are in spring training, then I think he'll begin deciding where people hit. As for Rollins, with his speed and knack for scoring runs, he shouldn't hit any lower than second. You don't hit a guy who can steal 30-40 bases for you lower in the batting order because you're just wasting speed down there. This is also the reason why they should hit Revere 1 or 2. If he can be a 300 hitter, he could probably steal 70-80 bases next year. Having him and Rollins in the 1 and 2 hole will put a whole lot of pressure on pitchers and opposing defenses. If the Phillies get there hands on a bat like Hamilton, Utley would be an ideal fifth spot hitter. If it's someone like Ross or Swisher, Utley should retain his third spot. It's all just guess work, though, until they make that next move.— Hemingway
- @Jiminfl: "If Rollins can't deal with that he can cry,quit,or ride the pine!! If he won't be a team player, put Galvis in 8 spot and move FA signing into 5 or 6 spot. Don't get me wrong; the Rollins of 4-5 yrs ago would be leadoff,but at this point in time the team needs to be 1st."
Where this kind of tirade always runs into trouble is when trying to identify players the Phillies have had (aside from part-timers), who would have fit better in the leadoff spot then wherever they actually hit in the lineup, but were prevented from hitting leadoff by Rollins.— schmenkman - @Jiminfl, @schmenkman means "anyone other than Juan Pierre". He wants you to try naming anyone else that would have fit better in the lead-off spot instead of Jim-ME. He realizes that his argument against your argument doesn't hold up if you mention Pierre, so you're not allowed to go there. — advantasux
- We should take note that the Phils home run leader was J-Roll in '12 with 23. Of course both Utley and Howard had injury plagued seasons and Werth's righty power bat was gone.
If we consider J-Roll as a legitimate 23 plus hitter, he'd give much more value as a #6 hitter than as a leadoff hitter where there'd be fewer men on base when his power hits.
We know that having a base-stealing leadoff hitter whose OBA is around .350 or more sets up the following hitters who will receive more fast balls and fewer off-speed pitches. Since almost all MLB hitters have to be able to hit fast balls decently to reach the bigs, that is the pitch they best in hitting...of course excepting those super fast balls that everybody can't hit. This will produce better contact (via fast ball expectations) by the #2, 3, 4, and 5 hitters.
Young to hit 2nd because he is a good contact hitter.— artfulme - speed makes pitchers stick with the fastball. it's a reason to bat Jimmy earlier, not later in the line up.
- We should take note that the Phils home run leader was J-Roll in '12 with 23. Of course both Utley and Howard had injury plagued seasons and Werth's righty power bat was gone.If we consider J-Roll as a legitimate 23 plus hitter, he'd give much more value as a #6 hitter than as a leadoff hitter where there'd be fewer men on base when his power hits.We know that having a base-stealing leadoff hitter whose OBA is around .350 or more sets up the following hitters who will receive more fast balls and fewer off-speed pitches. Since almost all MLB hitters have to be able to hit fast balls decently to reach the bigs, that is the pitch they best in hitting...of course excepting those super fast balls that everybody can't hit. This will produce better contact (via fast ball expectations) by the #2, 3, 4, and 5 hitters.Young to hit 2nd because he is a good contact hitter. (HTML deleted)— artfulme
- Utley is the Phillies best OBP guy and has 22 stolen bases in his last 162 games. He'd start the games off by making the pitcher work and sweat, not comfortably settle in with a couple quick outs. — jtj06
- By the middle of next year, this will be the lineup:
1) Revere
2) Young
3) Utley
4) Howard
5) Ruf
6) Free agent
7) Rollins
8) Ruiz— passi0natephillyfan - No.
Ichiro RF
Revere CF
Young 2B
Ruf 1B
Brown LF
Frandsen 3B
Valle C
Galvis SS
Howard, torn gut, high ankle sprain and back strain
Utley, Patellar tendonitis and hip injury
Ruiz, 4 broken fingers and knee injury
Rollins, nagging hamstring pull and calf strain
Kratz, concussion .185 batting average— jtj06 - Good stuff, lol. Hate to say it, but all these people speculating about a batting-order when they DON'T KNOW who can play and DON'T KNOW who the opposing starting pitcher is are no more 'right' than you are, have no better chance of success than if they were to just pick names out of a hat, or lottery balls, or blindfolded throw darts at a board.
- Anybody could have guessed that Rollins would bat lead off. Manuel has been neutered. He would never bat his b*tt hole buddy any lower because, truth be told, he's afraid of him. What a "great" manager. It's no wonder they want to play for this fool. He's anything but a taskmaster. Does anybody think Bochy or Larussa would put up with this cr*p? You better believe they wouldn't. Manuel is nothing but a wimp.— ghost of callison
