Charlie and The Lineup Factory
After the front office added two new everyday players, Phillies manager Charlie Manuel takes a stab at the lineup.
Charlie and The Lineup Factory
Ryan Lawrence, Daily News Staff Writer
The last time Charlie Manuel addressed the Phillies beat scribes, we were all in Nashville having lunch and the front office hadn't done a thing to improve the roster.
But just before Manuel and Co. boarded a plane bound for Philly on Thursday, Manuel knew there was a very good chance he had two new pieces for his starting lineup. The Phils traded for center fielder Ben Revere and were awaiting word for Michael Young to accept the third base job.
On Monday, with most of his starting nine accounted for, Manuel tried to take a stab at his 2013 batting order.
"You know, when I think about it, Michael Young, I can hit him quite a few places," Manuel began. "And in the year, two years, Ben has mostly hit second. But, you know what. I can sit here and go over lineups all I want to, but when it really gets down to it, who we have on the corners and in the outfield, that's what is going to dictate where our lineup falls. You can say whatever you want to, but if you're going to have production, as far as RBI and runs scored..."
Like you, Manuel is waiting for the next move. And if history is any indication, there will be another move.
The Phils aren't going to run the foursome of Domonic Brown, Darin Ruf, Laynce Nix and John Mayberry Jr. into the final two spots in their outfield. After trying to fill one corner outfield spot with question marks in each of the last two seasons, there is no chance they go into 2013 with two question marks in the corners.
In 2011, the Phils hoped to replace departed free agent Jayson Werth with Domonic Brown. But Brown got hurt early in spring training, Ben Francisco struggled and the team eventually traded for Hunter Pence.
In 2012, the Phils hoped to replace departed free agent Raul Ibanez with John Mayberry Jr., who finished the previous season on a tear. But Mayberry never took hold of the job when the season began and was out-played by Juan Pierre, a limited veteran who played above the minor league contract he signed last winter.
The Phils could platoon one of those two spots in 2012 - say, Brown and Ruf in left. But they know they need a proven bat in the other spot, and after going cheap in center, they have money to spend, too.
Among the outfield bats still on the free agent market: Josh Hamilton, Nich Swisher and Cody Ross.
Since Charlie won't entertain a lineup until all of the pieces are in place, here's one man's guess. (I'm sticking Carlos Ruiz in there since he will be back as the team's regular catcher following a 25-game suspension).
1. Jimmy Rollins, SS
2. Michael Young, 3B
3. Chase Utley, 2B
4. Ryan Howard, 1B
5. Carlos Ruiz, C
6. Free Agent, RF
7. Darin Ruf/Domonic Brown, LF
8. Ben Revere, CF
9. Pitcher
So let's say Brown or Ruf lead off an inning with a single. Revere bunts them to second, the pitcher bunts them to third, and Jimmy pops out to end the inning. Right?— TVGuy22- Lineup Geniuses : Baseball 101 - Jimmy Rollins has a higher OBP and OPS BY FAR than Ben Revere. Revere steals bases because he cannot hit the ball far enough to hit a double!
Leading Off is ALL ABOUT RUN PRODUCTION AND SCORING RUNS. JROll does this better than Revere. Not putting Revere down, I'm glad we got him...but he's a perfect #8 hitter in the NL.
Take the names out of the equation - Batter A - Stole 30 bases, has an OPS of .760, hit 33 doubles and 5 triples, scored 102 runs.
Batter B - stole 40 bases, hit 13 doubles and 6 triples, scored 70 runs. Ops of .640.
Which is the better more productive hitter?
Even Warbiscuit cannot argue these FACTS. JRoll is not Lou Brock, but he's the best we have to hit leadoff. Just enjoy him for what he is, and not what you wish he would be...
— cdedrick05 - "In 2011, the Phils hoped to replace departed free agent Jayson Werth with Domonic Brown. But Brown got hurt early in spring training,...'' This is wrong. Brown struggled (after struggling in the Dominican) and got hurt getting his first hit of the Spring. Get your facts straight.— EL Zorro
- It sounds like we have a few experts out there that need to apply for GM/manager jobs. I'm no fan of CM, but we only know the side of the businesss that we are allowed to see through the slanted media. If everything works out this year I want to see warbisquit and the other be man enough to admit they were wrong.— andivalspoppop
- That is a terrible batting order. I would prefer Revere..Young...Utley....Howard....RUF...Brown....Ruiz...,Rollins. Hopefully Brown and Ruf's talent will emerge. The starting pitchers will be between good and very good. Halladay will have to get close to what he was and can Kendrick continue last 7 starts peformance? Bastardo is a big key for pen. Antonio has the ability to dominate. Pap is solid. Fron DeFrautus, Aumont, Horst, Diekman Rosenberg they will need 2 dependable arms.— Don w
- EZ, I'm confused: how is "got hurt early in spring training" substantially different from "got hurt getting his first hit in the Spring" on March 5th?— schmenkman
- So Revere hitting 8th basically means he's a turn the line-up guy. Whoopity-doo— Breaking Bad
- Lawrence is probably right with this lineup but we can't count on Carlos "Speed" Ruiz having another year like 2012. Especially if we get Swisher, he'll be 5th and Ruiz 6th. If we get really lucky, Ruf/Brown outperform Ruiz and he drops to 7th.
Revere is only 24. His offense should improve over the next 2-3 years. He's here because: 1. He's cheap; 2. He's reportedly an excellent center fielder; 3. Scott Boras is Kryptonite to Amaro, so Michael Bourn was out of the picture
— eman - Counnt me as another poster who thinks Lawrence's lineup is ridiculous. No way you bat Revere 8th and Young 2nd. Revere should lead off followed by Jimmy, Utley, Howard, FA, Young, Chooch, Ruff/Brown. The problem with this line up is balance. Too many slow runners and only three good baserunners who whould be at the top of the line up. Hitting Young after Jimmy (a lot of DP) and in front of Utley (too slow) is ridiculous. Batting a player who hit almost .300 with 40 SB last year in the 8th hole after a bunch of slow players and bad baserunner (Brown) and in front of the pitcher is even worst.
— EL Zorro - I'd switch Rollins and Revere. Batting Ruf #7 is a waste of talent. Move him to #4 and breakup the LH/LH back-to-back problem that's plagued us for years. Hit Howard #5. Better yet, trade him and eat half of his contract and still save $50 mil and Ruf plays 1st abse every day.— 1republican
- Schmenkman, my point is that the writer alluded that Brown's injury was the main reason he lost his starting job, sort of, when was his productivity, following his poor showing i the Dominican. As a matter of fact, there was a debate within the organization about his readiness. Charlie stubbornly wanted to give the rookie as much chance as possible when it was evident to many who knows baseball that he wasn't ready after the Dominican fiasco (that same year Michael Martinez hit over .300 and made the Domincan AS game plus was part of the Dominican Team that played in the Caribbean WS, so you can have an idea of how bad Brown was playing at the time). Amaro went as far as saying the he needed more playing time in the minors. To this point, a lot of us were right. At the time of the injury, Brown was hitless in 15 AB with 9 KS. Charlie, in his usual way, kept throwing the kid out there hoping he'll come out of his slump when it was very clear he wasn't ready.— EL Zorro
- EZ, the Dominican "fiasco" was too small a sample to base anything on, as evidenced by the MiniMart .300 average.— schmenkman
- how incredibly stupid and spineless of this author to project a line-up that he THINKS Charlie will go for, as opposed to what the author believes himself.
Or does the author truly believe that our swing-for-the-fences pop-up machine J-NoRoll really deserve to stay at the top of the order, even after he collected 23 home runs for just 60-some RBI's. Doesn't his rediscovered power and all-or-nothing approach at the plate scream out for the 6-hole????
Not sure which is worse, if he writes this stuff to curry favor with Manuel or if he actually also believes it himself?— advantasux - Rollins was the Phils most consistent hitter last year, but please keep bashing the guy because he doesn't play small ball like David Eckstein.— JCKevo
- Here is my choice of a line up...Rollins-SS, Revere-CF, Young-3B, 1B-Howard, OF-FREE AGENT?, 2B-UTLEY, C-RUIZ, OF-RUF/BROWN, P------.
REVERE BATTING 2ND BECAUSE HE MAKES SO MUCH CONTACT, TRY TO ALTERNATE A LEFT/RIGHT BAT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. RUF OR BROWN COULD MOVE AHEAD OF RUIZ IF THEY PRODUCE.
— rhendzel
