Like many folks, Dubee had his suspicions
The two scouts who Ken Rosenthal quoted in his spring training story about Roy Halladay's decreased velocity are not the only people who had some suspicions about the veteran righthander's physical well-being.
Like many folks, Dubee had his suspicions
David Murphy, Daily News Staff Writer
The two scouts who Ken Rosenthal quoted in his spring training story about Roy Halladay's decreased velocity are not the only people who had some suspicions about the veteran righthander's physical well-being.
"I've thought since spring training that there was an issue," pitching coach Rich Dubee said on Tuesday, after the Phillies put Halladay on the disabled list with a Grade 1/2 strain of his lat muscle. "The ball just hasn't been accelerating through the zone the way his stuff does. His cutter has been moving that way, but his stuff is different than most people's stuff. Does he have that 96 (MPH velocity)? No. But his stuff, from the grass through the hitting zone, is explosive. It just took off. It was just more gradual now. It didn't have the finish to it."
So why did Halladay continue to pitch? According to Dubee, it was only the last couple of outings when it became apparent that the veteran righthander was not going to be able to pitch through whatever was ailing him. Heck, according to Halladay, there wasn't even a problem until the past couple starts.
Probably for a couple weeks now he's talked about crankiness, but he's said it's nothing I can't pitch with. After a couple of outings I talked to him, and then last outing, just watching his body language you could tell it wasn't even close to being right. So we got him out of there and hopefully we caught this thing at a good time if there is a good time and we can get it strengthened and get him on the mound again.
"Guys generally pitch with something," Dubee said. "You do not feel 100 percent very often when you go out there. There are lingering things and I thought this was some type of thing that was just a minor, lingering thing and we talked and he said he felt he could deal with it and work through it, and it just never got better and finally we had to stop it and see what was going on.
"Guys pitch with crankiness. Guys pitch with all kinds of crankiness. There is wear and tear to pitching. This went from just a crankiness and not feeling right to all of a sudden the last couple outings it was a little more difficult. The difference was really that he could get heated up, but when he sat down, he couldn't get it going again, he couldn't get the arm speed going again and the velocity and his arm in the right slot, and that just happened in the last couple of outings.
"We always talk. Probably for a couple weeks now he's talked about crankiness, but he's said it's nothing I can't pitch with. After a couple of outings I talked to him, and then last outing, just watching his body language you could tell it wasn't even close to being right. So we got him out of there and hopefully we caught this thing at a good time if there is a good time and we can get it strengthened and get him on the mound again."
Nobody is quite sure when the injury happened. Dubee pointed out that Halladay shouldered a tremendous workload in his final outing of the 2011 season, throwing 126 pitches in eight innings while trying to maintain a 1-0 deficit against the Cardinals.
"I haven't seen the stuff you expect to see out of him really since spring training, so you wonder," Dubee said. "You wonder what happened. We leave the season last year, he pitches a whale of a game the last day, was it happening then, did it happen when he started long tossing? You really don't know when it happened. Does it happen over wear and tear? There's a lot of things you could throw into the equation. But it is what it is and hopefully we caught it at a good enough time where three weeks of rest and reshaping his lat and strengthening it again we can get him back on the mound."
The news is better than it could have been.
"It could have been the labrum, it could have been the rotator cuff," Dubee said. "If there is good news from an injury, this is probably good news."
- Maybe the 5 straight division titles? Dope
— DogBiscuitthedope - I heard Dave Montgomery had buyers lined up for the team at the beginning of the season but now I hear a big sucking sound that the team isn't worth a hoot.— sonnybuoy01
Comment removed.- Curious, do you know how incredibly stupid your comment is? Again just curious. — DogBiscuitthedope
- If you were running a business and you gave joe blanton 10 million....You would be fired for stupidity!— jmb53
- What is the BS about Dubee being forthcoming? This piece doesn't change my opinion that Dubee is about as good a pitching coach as Manuel is a hitting guru. It is fortunate that, despite this incompetence, Halladay has a 2 months- on-the-DL muscle strain, and not a more serious structural problem with his shoulder. Gives a bit of perspective to Utey's hesitancy to play until he can manage the pain. Quarterly profit/the hell with the long-term Wall Street mentality finds its way to MLB.— ijj
- 126 pitches in eight innings! I'm not a baseball expert-but why would Charlie let anyone pitch that many times in one game?— disbud
- Ultimately, teams rely on the players where injuries are concerned. All of us knew since Spring Training reports filtered out from scouts that his arm slot had changed, that he had lost velocity on the fastball, which he was using less and less, that is breaking ball of late lacked any snap, but teams don't demand that each player suspected of any injury must go to a specialist. Ultimately, again, the onus is on the player, whose livelihood is at stake, particularly someone as proud and tough as Halladay. Stop blaming Dubee and the front office. Same with the Utley situation; he was not forthcoming during the off-season.— chuckw
- Dubee is old school and it doesn't work anymore - he doesn't make pitchers better!— workin365
Of co8rse, the kiss a** reporters were too busy checking out the babes in left field to actually do any reporting this spring training.- Why is this team continually ignoring problems until they get so serious the player is out of the game? Denila after denial that anything had changed with Halliday while all the scouts knew it. It started with Utley and Howard, then Lee. Now it's clear that Halliday had a problem that could have bene corrected back in spring training and been solved by now, so there would not have been so many bad outings by Halliday and he would be at top form now when the season is getting underway. It's hard enough staying with this team the way they are playing, but the management is making it very hard to trust anything they say.— atp2007
- Hopefully Doc will be the old Doc when he returns. If that happens and the Phils win the division and make the world series, these critics of Charlie will be the first to get on the bandwagon. The only criticism I have is that the Phils should ha ve shut him down when Dubee suspected that all was not right with Halladay.— Drumgoole
- Can they put Blanton on the DL too? We can get anybody and have a shot at him being better.— Ssteve115
- It sounds like this is a systemic issue. What do they do with these guys over the winter? Way to many injuries early. Utley has sore knees and nobody monitors his offseason progress? Maybe this shoulder issue came from throwing 128 pitches at the end of last year? Come on. This is a year round sport. Love Halladay & Utley but they need to take advantage of what the team has to offer and the team needs to do a better job of monitoring these offseason workouts.— Wheelermustgo
- Memo to Greg Gross From: Charley Manuel, Please sit down with anyone who hits and go over, in explicit terms, with charts and drawings, where exactly the major league strike zone is. And then fine anyone who swings at a pitch that is higher than their helmet. The worst kept secret in MLB right now is climbing the ladder on Phillies hitters, you almost need to have he opposing catcher use a stepladder the way they pitch our3-4-5 hitters, especially Hunter Pence. Victorino literally struck out today on a pitch that was taller than he is. C'mon fellas, we gotta do better than this!!!— lancesimmens
