Philly.com's Phillies 'stay or go' poll results
We asked our readers to vote on what changes they think the team needs to make. After the disappointing 2012 campaign, we weren't exactly sure what we were going to find out.
Philly.com's Phillies 'stay or go' poll results
Ryan Petzar
Like we do at the end of every Phillies (and Sixers, Flyers, and Eagles) season, we asked our readers to vote on what changes they think the team needs to make. After the disappointing 2012 campaign, which saw the Phils miss the playoffs for the first time since 2006, we weren’t exactly sure what we were going to find out.
It turns out that the fans aren’t quite as furious as you may imagine: most of the Phils’ role players have been granted a reprieve. That’s not to say there were a few surprises though. Read on to see the results.
Position Players:
Ryan Howard: The oft-maligned (and oft-injured) first baseman was given a passing grade by Phillies fans this season. 4,175 fans, good for 63% of the vote, picked him to stay. 2,420 fans voted to send him packing, but considering the Big Piece is inked through at least 2016, that won’t be happening anytime soon.
Chase Utley: Chase again missed a substantial part of the season due to knee issues, and some of the younger Phils stepped up in his absence. Factor in the talk of him possibly shifting to third base and acknowledging that his knees will probably never be back to 100%, I figured fans would be bearish on Uts. That wasn’t the case, however. 87 percent of voters, 5,208 in all, picked Chase to stay. Only 792 thought the team should cut him loose. It’ll be interesting to see what this number looks like next year as the 2013 season is the last year of Chase’s current contract.
Jimmy Rollins: This one sort of surprised me. Fans gave J-Roll a hard time all season long and there was speculation he’d be shipped off to the west coast at the trade deadline. But an even three-quarters of readers polled, 4,404 in all, voted to keep Jimmy around. 1,466 were in favor of getting rid of the current longest tenured athlete in Philadelphia.
Placido Polanco: No surprise here. Fans are overwhelmingly in favor of the Phillies getting rid of Poli. Only 6% voted to keep him around, and 5651 people, 94%, said to ditch him. For the most part, “stay” or “go” is a euphemism; most of these players are under contract and in MLB you can’t really just cut players if you’re unhappy with them. But in Polanco’s case, the team can either pay him $5.5 million to play for them in 2013 or pay him $1 million to buy him out of his contract. It’s a foregone conclusion that the Phils will take the buyout.
Carlos Ruiz: 98.4 percent of voters voted for Chooch to say. I assume that the other 1.7%, 79 people in all, clicked the wrong button when voting.
John Mayberry Jr.: This was the closest result of all the options presented, and I can’t say I’m surprised. Mayberry is a player that most people feel has yet to live up to his potential. Some people are in favor of giving him time to develop because of the flashes of brilliance he sometimes shows, and some people are in favor of cutting ties with him because of his inconsistent play. After 2012, which was pretty much understood to be a make-or-break year for John Mayberry, the fans are pretty much split down the middle. 2,626 people, or 51%, voted “go” and 2,516, 49%, voted for him to stay. It can’t get much closer than that. JMJ is eligible for pre-arbitration this season, so it’s still not clear exactly how the team will handle him.
Juan Pierre: Fans were apparently pleased with Juan’s gutsy play in 2012. It wasn’t always pretty, but JP hit .307 and swiped 37 bags on the season. 4,326 voters, 85.7% voted for Pierre to stay. 725, 14.4%, said the team shouldn’t keep him. Pierre was on a one-year deal, so he’ll be a free agent as soon as the World Series ends and it’ll be interesting to see what the team decides to do with him.
Domonic Brown: This one was another surprise for me. The more, uhh, reactionary side of the fanbase seems to have already given up on the former top prospect so I expected the numbers to be overwhelmingly in favor of trading the once-untouchable Brown. That wasn’t the case: an even two-thirds of voters, 3,293 in all, picked Brown to stay. 1,701 voted go. 2013 will be a big year for Brown: if he can stay healthy, fans should finally get a good, long look at the guy.
Brian Schneider: You might have to think hard to remember this guy. The name probably sounds familiar but you can’t... quite... put your finger on it. Oh, right! He’s been the Phils’ main backup catcher since 2010! But he managed to start only 26 games this year behind the plate because of injuries and the exceptional play of his replacement. Not surprisingly, only 6.5% of voters think the team should keep him, and 93.5% think he should go. Considering this was the last season of his contract, it’s all but certain he’s played his last days in Philly. Something to watch: Schneider has played for 4 teams in his career: Montreal, Washington, the New York Mets, and the Phillies (okay, so technically that’s only 3 franchises.) and they’re all NL East teams. Maybe the Marlins need a new backup catcher?
Erik Kratz: Ev-ry Bod-y Kratz your hands! Kratz Kratz Kratz Kratz Kratz Kratz Kratz Kratz Kratz Kratz! 96.7% of voters, 4,053 in all, want to continue Kratzing their hands. 143 feel as though they’ve Kratzed their hands enough for one lifetime, thankyouverymuch.
The Bench Players:
These results aren’t really interesting enough to try and be snarky or witty about, so here they are in list form.
Ty Wigginton: 427 votes, 11.2%, for stay. 3,403 votes, 89.1%, for go.
Kevin Frandsen: 3,559 votes, 94%, for stay. 248 votes, 6.5%, for go.
Darin Ruf: 3,930 votes, 97.9%, for stay. 95 votes, 2.1%, for go.
Freddy Galvis: 2687 votes, 80.6% for stay. 659 votes, 19.7%, for go.
Laynce Nix: 714 votes, 23.7%, for stay. 2,304 votes, 76.3% for go.
Nate Schierholtz: 1,463, 56.5%, for stay. 1,278 votes, 44%, for go
Michael Martinez: 366 votes, 11.3%, for stay. 2,876 votes, 89.1%, for go.
The Pitchers
Roy Halladay: Doc gets the vote of confidence from the fans coming off of one of the worst seasons of his career. Halladay’s health is now a question, but 2,602 fans, 85.6%, voted to keep Roy. 436 voters, or 14.4%, think Doc’s days are numbered.
Cliff Lee: Although there was a surprising amount of “Trade Cliff for pieces” talk about the deadline, voters overwhelmingly support the southpaw with 91.8% of fans polled voted to keep Clifton. Just 8.2%, 244 in all, think the Phils should ditch him. That would be easier said than done considering Cliff’s monster contract.
Cole Hamels: No surprise here. Hamels received 2,644 “stay” votes, good for an overwhelming 98.7% approval rating. He edges out Chooch by just 0.3% for the most positive fan reaction. Only 36 people voted negatively for Cole. This is a good thing because Cole’s shiny new contract extension ensures he’ll be around for a little while longer.
Vance Worley: Despite missing a good chunk of time this season with elbow issues, fans are still bullish on the Vanimal. He garnered 1,966 votes, or 83.3%, for “stay”. 414 fans, 17.5% of voters, said “go”.
Kyle Kendrick: I’m speechless. I really am. I never would have expected this. In the past, Phillies fans have wanted Kendrick’s head on a pike outside the ballpark. Then, after some excellent late-season starts this year, he manages to garner an astounding 79.9% approval rating. 1,912 people voted for him to stay! If you told me this vote was going to go 80/20, I would have believed you, but assumed the 80 percent wanted him gone. Wow. What a stunning turnaround.
Tyler Cloyd: The jury is out on the youngster who stepped up into a starting role. 1,079 people voted for him as a “stay”, and 939 called him a “go”, giving him a slim 54/46 edge in voting.
Jonathan Papelbon: The megabucks closer garnered generally positive reviews in his first season in Philly. 1,670 respondents gave him a positive vote, for an approval rating of 78%. The 22% of negative voters probably had Papelbon’s string of losses in non-save situations in mind when they voted, and you can’t exactly fault them for it.
The Others:
Antonio Bastardo: 943 votes, 48.2% for stay. 1,014 votes, 51.8% for go.
Phillippe Aumont: 1,430 votes, 89.9% for stay. 161 votes, 10.1% for go.
Jeremy Horst: 1,170 votes, 84.2% for stay. 219 votes, 15.8% for go.
Michael Stutes: 1,017 votes, 76.3% for stay. 316 votes, 23.7% for go.
The Staff:
Charlie Manuel: It’s been a tough year for ol’ Cholly. Everybody seems to have an opinion about how they could do better job that the guy. Twitter seemed to think he couldn’t manage a bullpen. Facebook comments skewed toward the guy being too loyal to his star players. The guy who runs the pizza shop down the street from me thinks Manuel has no business in a dugout anymore. The truth of the matter is that the biggest reason for the Phils’ woes this year had more to do with things outside of the skipper’s control: injuries. But despite all that, a majority of Philly.com readers have given Cholly their blessing as he heads into the final year of his contract: 1,994 voters, roughly 53%, voted for him to stay. 1,755, or about 47%, picked him to go.
Ruben Amaro Jr.: The Phils’ GM probably earned himself a big ol’ bucket of brownie points from Phils fans when he was able to ink homegrown superstar Cole Hamels to a contract extension instead of resorting to trading him away at the deadline. Getting that move was probably enough to tip the scales in his favor in the fan vote, as 1,967 fans, or about 56%, voted for him to stay. 1,559, or about 44%, voted to give him the heave-ho.
I am utterly remarkablized at some of the things that surprise our fiendly neighborhood sportshack. A very small sample of the actual readers of these pages are making comments at any time during a season, and, being the way of things, nameless behind the veil, the larger number of the common taters are the famous Negadelphians. I have always firmly suspected the majority of people of the Philadelphia area have the sense to see what is in front of them for what it is!
Most of the real fans probably realize that, despite his warts, Jimmy Rollins is in the top tier of shortstops.
Most of the real fans probably realize that, despite his struggles in parts of two seasons, the upside on Domonic Brown is tremendous.
Most of the real fans probably noticed that, during the second half, or so, when the Phillies were making a sort of run, Kyle Kendrick was not only pretty darned consistent, but pretty darned consistently GOOD!
Most of the real fans seem to understand that young pitchers can have injuries that won't ruin their careers, and since Vance Worley and Michael Stutes have shown to be pretty good so far, they need to be back. Younger pitchers are the future.
Speaking of inconsistency, Cliff Lee was exactly the pitcher he has been for his entire career, it seems to me. He can be brilliant for a stretch, then awful for a stretch. The brilliant seems, always, to outweigh the awful.
With Tyler Cloyd, the Stay/Go split is likely a stay with the Phillies or go for one more minor league year.
Jonathan Papelbon was about what one gets in a closer, wasn't he? Frankly, I am still where I was at the end of last year, thinking that RAJ should have made a bigger effort to keep Ryan Madson!
Charlie Manuel is still the most successful field manager in the team's history!— BEMiller- Of all the free agents in post season baseball I really like Jose Pagan the most and Nick Swisher the least— baeboo
- Even the commentary by Petzar regarding the poll numbers on each athlete, shows his own personal bias.
Example - seems surprised how many people want Utley to stay.
Are you kidding me ! The guy has been the heart and soul of this franchise for years. One of the best players in baseball. A guy who know how to play the game and always gives maximum effort.
— candidly - I don't think I was being biased at all there. I was stating that I thought more people would be down on him because of his injuries heading into a contract year, not that they *should* be.
— rpetzar - I think your response to may earlier statement proves an important point. True Phillie fans are knowledgeable and passionate about the players on their team. They react to how their players play the game and judge them accordingly. Chase Utley has always played the game right. They do not hold it against a player when he is hurt or not playing. Contract speculation and all the surrounding balooney are for media people who think they are superior in knowledge of the game than the fans. — candidly
- Just because the Phillies' problems this year were out of Uncle Chollie's control does not mean he is a good manager. Those are 2 different issues. He is not a good manager. Anyone who thinks he is is a casual baseball fan.— justacarpenter
- Chollie is not a good manager, he is an excellent manager. A baseball lifer and truly inspirational. Anyone who disagrees is just an average carpenter. — manyhats
- Chase Utley, one of the best players in baseball? Does baseball know this? Utley's production has been in a steadily decline. He's a shell of his former self, and his best years are behind him. Not to mention the peculiar nature of his knee condition, where he doesn't give the team the right information on his return, to where the team is unable to prepare for his absence. At this point in his career, Utley is average at best.— beegal99
- someone please tell me who plays the game of baseball better than chase utley ...the way he plays the game makes him valuable way beyond stats . not counting clubhouse presence, the little things he does on the bases and defensively thru hustle, brains , determination,and desire cannot be calculated. he is much more valuable than given credit for and anyone on this team that does not take his lead should be moved— RUgodot
- The Phils have only one problem--the 25m load at 1st. We could have two very good corner outfielders for thay money. Young Tom— Young Tom
- Wrong..the Phils desperately need his annual 130+ RBI production in this line up...didn't April - Mid-July 2012 teach us this? And why is anyone's salary limiting the Phillies?...they have PLENTY of money to reload the OF, but they put a cap on themselves. Don't blame Ryan...blame the Phillies ownership that imposes phony salary caps on itself, despite annual 3MM+ attendence since 2004. Luxury tax?...please, who cares? — Phront_Runner
- Survey problem to be fixed - Next year let fans fill the entire ballot out before voting. Because you have to reset after each vote I noticed that there were 6ooo+ votes for the starting players and as the list got longer as few as 2000+ votes were cast towards the end of the list.— karl51
- Thanks for mentioning this. Hopefully someone takes notice. I find that aspect of the polls on philly.com to be extremely annoying. For a Phillies poll, I'll generally take the time to plow my way through it but for other polls I've done exactly what you describe -- respond to a few then give up. — s
- This is a very good point and one that I realized myself when trying to compile the results. Believe me, it was as big of a pain in my side as yours. It's something we'll look into. Thanks for the feedback. — rpetzar
- Yes!
I filled it out entirely, but the current format has been annoying, at the least!— BEMiller - Amazing that Matheny took a Cards team, minus LaRussa, minus Pujols, minus Carpenter for most of the season, minus their big gun Berkman for most of the season, minus Furcal their best SS for most of the season....and still he got into the playoffs and has managed them to success that few other managers could have.
Bruce Bochy in SF....without much of an offense to speak of all year....with his best in baseball closer gone for the year, with absorbing the .235 Pence for half a year, with one of his offensive pillars gone with depression/anxiety for a big part of the season and then mnot perofrming the rest of the season, and with sordid and sundry other issues, Bochy wins his division and takes his team far into the playoffs again.
I say this because Charles Manuel cannot hold a candle from a game management standpoint or a getting the best out of your players standpoint when compared against these two guys. For a long time I gave him a pass because of the injuries. Now, not so much. A superior wins with what he has. Charles couldn't do that. Case closed.— Mark1npt - I couldn't agree more. But everyone knows it. Everyone that knows baseball knows it. There's a reason U. Chollie never won manager of the year, even when his team broke the wins record for the franchise. Everyone knows it ...but a few morons in a certain section of offices at CBP. (sigh) — Mortimer G Fingenfinderstein III
- Could probably not agree less with this comment. Losing the much over-rated Tony LaRussa is the perfect example of addition by subtraction. He had been always an underachiever as a manager!
The only real loss in the bunch was Chris Carpenter.
Of course, since this is a diatribe against Charlie Manuel, I understand the need to raise nonsenses. BTW, Bruce Botchy benefits mightily from being in, perhaps, the worse division in all of MLB. AND, without the absurdity of another wild card, no Card(inals) in the post-season. Look forward to the day when every team with a .500 record or better makes it into single game eliminations!
GOOD GRIEF!— BEMiller - @Mortimer......the truly usccessful managers in MLB actually MANAGE each and every game. It's truly amazing to see the control over the flow of the game and the solid decision making that guys like Metheny (in his first year ever) and Bochy in his bazillionth year, compared to Charles' "let em' out on the field to play" mentality. If your players are light years ahead of all others in baseball OR if you steal signs and know whats coming on every pitch, you don't have to manage at all. BUT, if your team is borderline good, if you're fighting a host of injuries, etc.....you actually do have to manage your team. Charles' approach isn't ever gonna work with a team that can't hit 2 or 3, 3 run homers every single game.— Mark1npt
- Play the older players (that includes Ruf and Mayberry) through June. Hopefully some of them will play well enough so that a contender will give up some good young prospects before the trade deadline.— altoonaaslan
- @youngtom.......I think your comment about hits the load, er, I mean the nail on the head.......Amaro thought he did the organization a solid by getting Howard the K locked up for "only 5 years" at the foreseen going rate of $25 mil per vs. having to wait and pay him for 10 years like the other guys at $25 mil per. The fly in the ointment, is that those other guys still have atleast 5 good productive years ahead of them, whereas with injury or not, Howard the K has gone down hill each year of the last 3. There is no upside left. Therefore, the term "load" does in fact apply here....and will prevent the Phils from reloading with appropriate OF help.— Mark1npt
- With the exception of the Charlie pick (stay) and only giving Mayberry a slim "go" vote (should've been go by a large majority), I think the fans nailed this poll pretty well...nice work.— Phront_Runner
- Did Michael Martinez vote 366 times in this poll? I can't imagine any fans wanting to keep this guy.@BEMiller: I guess you forgot Madsen needed TJ surgery before the season even started? If the Phils had signed Madsen, the bullpen would have been an even bigger disaster.@Mark1npt: Good point about other teams' injuries. Don't forget the Nats had star players miss significant time as well. (HTML deleted)— Only in Philly...
- Remarkabalized sounds like a Charlie Manuel word. The fact is Manuel has ridden the gravy train too long. He would never had won a pennant without the nucleus playing at their prime in 2008.— Phillip Phan
- Very good, enjoyed reading!— joeace
- Cholly makes plenty of suspect in-game moves, but the haters comparing him to Matheny and Bochy are getting a bit carried away. Good manager or no, he still didn't have the personnel. There is no right way to use Ty Wigginton or Laynce Nix, or a bullpen consisting of Chad Qualls and a parade of AAA call-ups who apparently thought their job was to help opposing teams pad their offensive numbers.— jermigio
- How many more games will it take to find out what we already know, that Dom Brown is an overrated lackadaisical player?— Cazptain Philadelphia
- baeboo, do you realize Jose Pagan, the former Pirates and Giants SS, died a few years ago? Maybe you're thinking about Angel Pagan, the Giants CF, and I second your post. That's my #1 choice also.
— EL Zorro - I second what jusacarpenter posted. The Nats had injuries to more key players than the Phillies. The Dodgers also had a bunch of injuries also and so did the Cardinals (Berkman, Carpenter, Furcal and Adam Wainright was coming off an injury). Stop with the excuses and apologies, Charlie is a bad manager.— EL Zorro
- Can't figure Phillie fans. J-POP Rollins sets the example for Dom "Dog" Brown who lacked hustle on several occaisions this year, a year in which he was trying to establish himself on a 5 time NLE champ. Kendrick???? 3 or 4 good outings do not redeem a guy after 5 years of mediocrity.— drenner
- El .... realized my mistake meant Angel Pagan— baeboo
- So 80 % of voters want brown to stay compared to 49% who want mayberry to stay? Even though mayberry is better in every phase of the game than brown? Not saying much, but whoever voted brown stay and mayberry go doesn't watch the games.— mjc1
- The Phillies should do themselves and Howard a big favor - trade him to the American League where he can DH. Put Kratz on first and try Ruf in the outfield. Brown and Mayberry are far from sure things. Hitters like Pierre and Frandsen would also look good in the starting lineup.— Boru
- baeboo, I too liked Jose Pagan when he was alive and playing. Of course he last played in 1973 and died in 2011. Perhaps you mean outfielder Angel Pagan, who I also like...
- baeboo: You're showing your age, fella. Current guy is Angel Pagan. Jose Pagan, ex-Giant, Pirate and Phillie, died last year at 76.— Dave Clemens
- BEMiller makes an excellent point in the first post. Too often the writers and self-important buffoons on the radio fail to realize that the people who take the time to comment or call in make up a very small and specific (extreme?) percentage of the fan base. They make the assumption that what they're hearing/reading reflects the opinion of the majority of fans when that very often is not even remotely the case. I've listened to a player get ripped to shreds on my way to a game only to see him receive an overwhelmingly positive reception by 40,000+ at the park.— fhs77
- Read the last paragraph. 44% of the voters must be idiots ... Rube-the-Boob is the biggest problem we have as an organization. He hasn't added "one good young player" during his tenure as GM. He cannot judge talent. He has mortgaged the future - and the present. He has made bad trades and bad signings. He has bid against himself to sign and re-sign players (Rollins, Pap, Howard). He brought in Wigginton, Nix, and Thome rather than a real third baseman, a decent bullpen ... and, of course, he kept Michael Martinez over Wilson Valdez ... Enough said ...
— Copper34 - Michael Martinez's family must have voted 366 times. There is no way on earth that he should have gotten that many people to vote for him to stay.— Penfold18
- Utley the best player in baseball?? What are you people drinking? I'll have a couple to fog out on myself...when I need it. But not here. His offense is above par, and he did great finally coming away from injury. But his fielding is that of a disjointed circus clown!!
I grant you he is good enough to get away with most of those antics, but why do you think he experimented at third base toward the end of the season? Because he got to sit and watch a young phenom make ALL of the plays like they were a part of his nature. Second base was Galvinized when Freddy was on the field, and made for a real nice defensive infield with JRoll and Poly. Naturally Galvis needed time to get past his rookie jitters at the plate, but he did improve as he played. My fear needs to be disproved, however, that this was not "enhanced" medicinally. If he's tearing the cover off the ball now in Venezuela without drugs, then I can't wait to see him in spring training once again.
You can be sure that the "best player in baseball" will have plenty of motivation watching him in 2013..."knock on wood!" I know most of you are talking about Chase's heart and passion for the game, and I'm cool with that. But I played second base in high school better than he does! They didn't tag me "good field, no hit" for nothing.— ocpizza - I see Manuel got the "sentimental" vote. Sentiment does not win titles. In baseball, football, business, and politics, it's "what have you done for me lately", as it should be. Sentiment is for losers.— ghost of callison
- I can't believe that many people (11.3%) want Michael Martinez back in 2013.— PhightinPhil
- Uts??????????????????? Hahahahahaha— pnolan
- Time to: sit Howard against tough lefties and play Ruf at first; acquire Gardner, Pagan or Upton, in that order; trade for Headley or Olt; resign Pierre; release Nix and Martinez!— ginzo
- I was very pleased to see that for almost all players, coaches, etc., Phillies phans voted the same way I did. It just goes to show you how intelligent Phillies phans are.— Jacob
- phillies need a power rt handed bat be nice to see Ruf do but still c ould use one more maybe at 3rd og and out fielder and also need a 8th inning man in the bull pen and it is time for chcky to go he can't win unless a lot of home runn this season should show you this and finr a wat to geh Rollen to play all season not just when he wants to and I repete play all the time— abbyzuk
- In many cases -- Bastardo and Cloyd are notable exceptions -- voters took salary into consideration. So the results were not surprising. We know Brown and Mayberry are relatively affordable role players at worst in 2013. We know Nix at $3.5 million isn't earning it. Pierre? Sure, bring him back at $850,000 -- fat chance, though. At $2 million, even on a one-year deal, don't. Weak defense, no pop and terrible arm. By and large, voters got it right. I'd bring Bastardo and Cloyd back easily due to salaries.
— eman - 63% for Ryan Howard? Come on people....I understand he struggles at hitting off speed pitches, or where the strike zone is, but he is inked for 4 more years at over 100 million, so he isn't going anywhere...He is a huge run producer. Ryan Howard frustrates me more than anyone else on this team, but that is because is such a star, that he should be better in the areas where he is so weak...— Philliefan75inAZ
- People can dog Jimmy all they want about his dogging it up to first base or not running out a pop up, which he was doing at an alarming rate this year, but you have to give him props for running balls out after the last benching towards the end of the year? Wow, did I just say that, give him props for doing something he should be doing anyways?— Philliefan75inAZ
