When Vick holds on to the ball
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When Vick holds on to the ball
Sheil Kapadia, Philly.com
Earlier this week in Mike Check, I broke down how the Rams attacked Michael Vick in the opener.
He was sacked three times, but in each case, St. Louis brought extra defenders. The Rams did not sack Vick on any of the 24 plays where they rushed four defenders or fewer.
But one question that's been asked going back to last year is: Does Vick hold on to the ball too long?
J.J. Cooper took a look over on Football Outsiders. He timed every sack in the NFL since the start of the 2009 season and charted how many occurred after the quarterback held on to the ball for three or more seconds.
Vick ranked second in the league with 5.34 percent of his sacks coming after he held on to the ball for three seconds or longer. Tampa's Josh Johnson was first. Oakland's JaMarcus Russell was third. Ben Roethlisberger and Daunte Culpepper were fourth and fifth, respectively.
Peyton Manning, meanwhile, had the lowest rate. Only 0.32 percent of his sacks came after he held onto the ball for three seconds or more.
But I would argue that these numbers aren't as much of an indictment on Vick as they might appear to be at first.
Vick is a different athlete and a different player. He ran for 676 yards last year and averaged 6.8 yards per carry. Vick had eight runs of 20+ yards. Only nine running backs had more.
So how many of those runs came on plays where he held on to the ball, made defenders miss and picked up huge chunks of yardage on the ground? A lot.
The guys over at Pro Football Focus provided me with some data on Vick's runs last year. He had 100 total carries; 23 were designed runs; 9 were kneel-downs; 6 were QB sneaks; and 3 were aborted snaps or fumbles.
That left 59 rushing attempts that were improvised, or originally pass plays. On those runs, Vick picked up 570 yards and averaged 9.66 yards per attempt. Ready for this stat? 330 of those yards came after contact.
In other words, your eyes do not deceive you. Yes, Vick takes sacks when he holds on to the ball for more than three seconds. But he also makes huge plays with his legs in those same situations.
There are times when Vick needs to recognize where the pressure is coming from and get rid of the ball. For example, last week, when Quintin Mikell sacked Vick from his blind side, he had DeSean Jackson in one-on-one coverage, open in the middle of the field, but didn't get the pass off on time. Those are the situations I'm sure he'll focus on getting better in throughout the season.
STATS AROUND THE LEAGUE
Here are some numbers around the league after Week 1:
* Only Oakland's Darren McFadden had more rushing yards (150) than LeSean McCoy last week. Who would have guessed that'd be the case when McCoy went into the fourth quarter with just 27 yards on the ground?
* Among players who had at least 10 carries last week, Michael Turner (10.0 YPC), Vick (8.8 YPC) and McCoy (8.1 YPC) had the highest yards per carry averages. All three will be on the field Sunday night in Atlanta. Vick's numbers are skewed. He's officially down for 11 carries and 97 yards, but that includes three kneel-downs. The real numbers are 8 for 100.
* Tom Brady and Chad Henne EACH had 10 throws that picked up 20+ yards last week.
* After his performance in Kansas City, Buffalo's Ryan Fitzpatrick leads all QBs with a 133.0 QB rating. Kevin Kolb is third with 130.0. His 11.4 yards per attempt in Week 1 was tied for tops in the league with Cam Newton. Kolb has thrown for 300+ yards in four of the seven games he's started and finished in his career. And one of the three times he didn't do so was Week 17 against Dallas last year when he was playing with backups.
* Redskins tight end Fred Davis had four catches of 20+ yards last week, tied for most in the league with Miami's Brandon Marshall.
* Roddy White was targeted 13 times in Week 1, tied for most in the league. DeSean Jackson was right behind him with 12.
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The longer the play is extended, the more enjoyable the offensive entertainment, assuming Vick is the player doing the extending...someday he won't have that ability...it'll be like watching Iverson settling for jumpshots...That's not to mean the Eagle's offense should just be a roll to the left circus, but until a dependable pocket gets formed, and the recievers gain separation running creative pass routes, and the offensive game plan mixes up defenders.....he's gotta do what he's gotta do.— bearsfriend- Where's McNabb in that list?— Norm3
- GO VICK, GO REID, GO EAGLES!!!! The Eagles fans of Truckee say ur the best Sheil.— first down
- Holding the ball longer allows for more of a possibility for someone to get open. Why doesn't at least one of the coaches tell him when he does run to TUCK THE BALL IN and not carry it out from his body, too easy for a defender to knock the ball out of his hand.— fanup
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- I like the raw numbers look that sheil provides but sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story. Vick needs to hold the ball to be what he is. The less it is in his hand the less dangerous he is.— eaglessuperfan
- All Qb's who are a running threat hold the ball. If you dont want them to hold the ball, get a dropback passer.
— tr88 - sheil, on that play there was a useless playfake, and he didn't take a straight dropback. the safety was not crowding the L.O.S. at the snap, it was well timed and he blitzed from the backside while he was setting up.
there were two receivers in the route, play side, versus man coverage. vick was setting his feet to throw when he got hit. jackson had not pulled away from the defender until just when vick was hit. and he did not get an inside release, so there was no way to lead him with the throw.
in short, there was nowhere for the qb to go with the ball quickly. watch the tape of that sack again.
it is a MUCH different discussion when talking about someone missing a hot route off of a straight dropback. but if you are in PA, the play-fake and protection are supposed to hold off the blitzer. opposing teams are blitzing the eagles' PA because they can't afford to wait for vick to get set up.
— poetx 
yes, he holds onto the ball to long because HE IS NOT SMART ENOUGH to make an accurate pass QUICKLY as many low-wonderlic score QB's hold onto the ball too long. Usually they are out of the league or a starting spot very quickly, unless of course they can run a 4.3 40. Tom Brady and the best QB's already know where thier going with the pass BEFORE THE BALL IS EVEN SNAPPED. Hes making autobles at the line, shifting his pass protection to meet the blitz as he knows exactly where it socming from, and knows exactly which option will be open, hikes the ball and within ONE SECOND makes an accurate throw, completion, and then he DOES IT AGAIN. AND AGAIN. its called GOOD QUARTERBACKING in the NFL. Vick, McNabb, VY all LOW WONDERLIC QB's , making them throw OVER AND OVER is STUPIDITY, it WILL NOT WIN A SB. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER- Vick's wonderlic score is higher than Dan Marino and Terry Bradshaw and about the same as Brett Favre. That's two(eventually three) Hall of Fame quarterbacks and two who have won super bowls. I really don't think that has anything to do with anything. — sa_eagles
- uh yea you just listed the absolute 2 or 3 EXCEPTIONS to the rule, they are NOT THE NORM. again, Bradhshaw handed the ball of a ton back then and was not forced to throw alot against tought 3-4 defenses that did not exist back then. its no comparison. same with Marino and Marino NEVER WON A SB. SHOCKER. Favre had a higher score then Vick. its not that close. more excuses. SB winning Qb's in the last 10 years, against these complex defenses of today AVERAGE a score of OVER 30. Manning, Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers all near 30 or well over. McNabb and Vy at 15 lowest in the league nad Vick at 20 well below average for a QB. the average score for ALL PLAYERS is a 24. for QB's its a 28 and for SB winning QB's its 30. it matters. if you happen to have a low wonderlic score QB LET THEM HAND THE BALL OFF ALOT. Forcing them to throw over and over, without a smart QB, is STUPIDITY.
- Sheil, in the article you misrepresent the data from FO. You said 5% of his sacks were a result of holding the ball too long, but in the FO article the 5% is taken from his passing attempts. So really, he held the ball "too long" for almost 60% of the sacks he's taken over the last two years. This stat really takes each situation out of it's original context. I don't really think that all sacks taken after 3 seconds are necessarily Vick's fault, but that's the number they chose to work with and it does give you a reference to compare quarterbacks to each other.
I don't think that asking Vick to improvise less and just throw the ball away is necessarily the solution you want. Vick has the ability to make dynamic plays when things break down, so I think you have to take the bad with the good.
I do think it sheds a different light on the OL situation. This data is really putting the "blame" on Vick for 21 of his 34 sacks last year, which mean the OL only has the "blame" for 13 sacks over 12 games. People are always saying you need to limit the hits he takes. If those hits are a result of his style of play, would any OL really be able to do that to everyone's satisfaction?— sa_eagles - To charliegarner25, if you are going to make an intellectual type argument about Vick's intelligence, you'd have more credibility if you could at least spell your words correctly as in audible, not autobles among others. In any case your obviously biased point based on the usual reckless, naive, and irresponsible mantra is tired and lame. Whether you or others who think like you - like it or not - apparently Vick has "brains" enough to get P-A-I-D!— Tblairjr
- your preaching to the choir Tblair. I LIKE Vick. I like his competitiveness. hes got balls and heart, more then most other QB's. But THIS COACH DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO USE HIS QUARTERBACKS. the fact is Vick had a low wonderlic, nothing you say or I say can change that. its a fact. so to fix that problem he should NOT BE FORCED TO PASS OVER AND OVER, which is what Reid does. If you have Tom Brady or Rogers, Brees, whoever, then it MIGHT be ok to pass alot, but NOT WITH A SLOWER THINKING QB. I like Vick. hes just not being used properly here. He won more playoff games in one year in a run-first offense in Atlanta then he has so far in Reids all pass garbage. Hes not being utilized properly because REID IS AN IDIOT. and will NEVER WIN A SB. NEVER. its such basic fundemental coaching, to play your players to their strenghts, NOT THIER WEAKNESSESS. coaches that win superbowls DO THAT WELL. Andy Reid is TERRIBLE AT THAT. IT IS SO FUNDAMENTAL TO COACHING IT IS UNBELIVABLE. NEVER.
- "Those are the situations I'm sure he'll focus on getting better in throughout the season."
Sheil, what exactly do you base this presumption on? Wishful thinking? Yes, I am "wishful" too, but alas it's evident that Vick will continue to disappoint re. reading defenses and anticipating blitz's.
Few, if any, have Peyton Manning's savvy and football smarts, but it would be nice if Vick started to APPROACH. Just doesn't seem likely though. Hence ...
Run Vick run!!!
— FishFryFrank - Does Vick hold onto the ball to long ........do bears ____ in the woods?— RealizticFan
- Who cares about his wonderlic...and Marinos wonderlic....FACT is he is 31 and has never won anything. Wasn't this town down on McNabb for the same thing.....why did we go with this guy over Kolb.— RealizticFan
- He can hold the ball for 40 seconds as far as I CARED, as long as he puts up W's and we win the whole thing, I could careless. In Vick WE trust— WestPhillysMostWanted
- Hindsight, you actually made an inteeligent post this week and I thought there was hope for you. Now I see you are back to the same old wonderlic, Reid, NEVER etc. BS and have returned to being the clown of the blog. I guess there is no hope after all. Grown the h#ll up troll boy. Your posts are so redundant they are embarrassing.— tpizza
- After playing pee-wee football and high school football and college football and all those these years in the pros - pretty soon McVick will learn to read defenses and get rid of the ball to the hot read.— ej610
- CharlieGarner25, you talk a lot of s.it, but tell me, what is your Wonderlic score? probably lower than any of the "black" QB's you are referring to. You don't have to be a genuis or Einstein to play QB in the NFL and I wish pundits like you would stop trying to imply that is the case. Not every Qb can be Brady, Manning or Brees, etc., they can only be themselves. There is a reason they are in the league/NFL and playing the QB position, it is becasue they can make plays that help their team win. You don't always have to be a so called "drop-back" passer to be successful. Vick's biggest problems is that he is not 6' 2" or taller, so he has difficulty seeing the entire field. If he was 6"2" or taller, he would be every bit the Qb that Brees or Brady would be.— will50
- Brees is just as short as Vick...Vick is just a different breed of quarterback. When he gets out of the pocket (and he still can) he opens up a can of problems for defenses, and the coaching staff should utilize that with routes that correspond with his movement...Also, Vick wears down the defense, and fourth quarters are constantly in the Bird's favor because of this. There's a time and a place for a three step drop and hitting a quick slant, but Vick on the move makes the Eagles a much scarier prospect to go up against. He's just fine as the player he is right now. — bearsfriend
- Wonderlic scores are about as good as any statistical measure...if thats what you're into. Terry Bradshaw was not too much more intelligent than a post but the man could play football...he's got 3-4 rings, and he is entertaining as hell as an analyst. I'll bet Van Brocklin would have scored even lower than Bradshaw.
Lets wait and see around week 10 where Vick and the Eagles stand and you can reassess you're reliance on the not so wonderful wonderlic.
Football ain't rocket science. The only genuine intellectual to play the game was a coach - Bill Walsh; but you know Chuck 'Knotead' Noll, with Bradshaw as QB, won more rings than anybody. And I'd take Lombardi, a man who didn't rely on trickery or subtlety in his coaching, over either of them. So, please, ease up on the intellectual part of the game. I don't know Vick or Kafka or Young but I'm sure any of them are plenty smart enough to throw a ball to a receiver...oh yeah, and hand the ball off to a back.
Give me a break.— Cameiros - Does Vick hold on to the ball? Did DJax average 18+ yards per catch? Did the Eagles have more plays for 30 yards or longer than most NFL teams in 2010? Yes..Yes..Yes, it takes time for receivers to get down field that deep sometimes.— gditty
- I think he's just too short, can't see over the linemen. Needs "looking" lanes to see what's happening.
— Eephus
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