The All-Vick mailbag
News blogs, sports blogs, entertainment blogs, and more from Philly.com, The Philadelphia Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily News.
The All-Vick mailbag
Sheil Kapadia, Philly.com
I have received quite a bit of feedback from yesterday's post on Michael Vick's injuries. Thanks to everyone who commented, e-mailed, Tweeted, etc.
Some of you thanked me for pointing out that all four of Vick's reported injuries last season occurred while he was in the pocket. Others ripped me for "defending" Vick and his style of play.
And others posed questions/topics worth exploring further.
So, let's take a look at some of those in an all-Vick mailbag.
Q: He may have been in the pocket, but doesn't Vick get sacked more often than other quarterbacks because he holds on to the ball too long?
A: A fair question, but if you look at the plays where he got injured, Vick didn't really hold on to the ball long. On the concussion play against the Falcons, Jeremy Maclin ran a 3-yard slant, and the ball was out. Against the Giants, Vick ran play-action, set his feet and delivered one of his nicest passes of the season, over the safety's head and into Maclin's hands.
In the 49ers game, McCoy was only 1 yard past the line of scrimmage when the ball arrived from Vick.
And against the Cardinals, Vick got rid of the ball quickly, completing a pass 5 yards downfield to Celek.
So none of the four injuries were the result of Vick holding on to the ball too long. Overall, though, there are certainly instances when that happens.
J.J. Cooper of Football Outsiders keeps track of sacks that are caused by quarterbacks holding on to the ball too long. He breaks them down into three categories:
- Sacks that occurred in under 2.5 seconds.
- Sacks that occurred between 2.5 and 2.9 seconds.
- Sacks that occurred after 3 seconds or more.
The theory is that the offensive line is usually at fault for sacks that happen in less than 2.5 seconds. And quarterbacks are usually to blame for the sacks that take three seconds or longer.
Vick was sacked in under 2.5 seconds on 1.4 percent of his overall dropbacks, which was lower than the league average of 1.8 percent. That means the Eagles did a good job of avoiding those "quick sacks" where the quarterback has no chance.
Vick was sacked after holding on to the ball for three seconds or more on 2.8 percent of his dropbacks, slightly above the league average of 2.7 percent. Of the 47 quarterbacks who attempted at least 60 passes last season, 21 had a higher rate in the three seconds or more category.
In other words, Vick was basically in the middle of the pack on sacks resulting from holding on to the ball too long. Some quarterbacks who were worse: Cam Newton (3.5 percent), Tony Romo (3.2 percent) and Ben Roethlisberger (3.0 percent).
But what the numbers don't tell us is how often Vick held on to the ball for three seconds or more overall.
Football Outsiders keeps a stat called Houdinis, which measures how many times a quarterback escaped a sack. Vick led the league with 17. No other quarterback had more than 12. So, Vick very well might hold on to the ball longer than other quarterbacks, but those plays didn't result in sacks at a high rate. They might, however, have resulted in hits - either as he released the football or after he picked up yards with his legs.
Note: This section has been edited since it was originally published. Thanks to Derek, formerly of IgglesBlog, for clarifying a couple points from Football Outsiders.
Q: Even though the reported injuries took place while Vick was in the pocket, isn't it true that they could have originally been sustained on previous plays where he ran?
A: In theory, yes, this could have been the case. But let's look at the four plays I wrote about yesterday.
The first injury took place when Vick collided with Todd Herremans and sustained a concussion. It had nothing to do with previous plays. Same thing with the bruised hand he suffered against the Giants. That was a one-play injury. And the finger injury against the 49ers also occurred in a vacuum on that one play.
The broken ribs against the Cardinals, which caused Vick to miss the next three games, are more of a mystery. Andy Reid said the injury occurred on the second offensive play of the game. LeSean McCoy seemed to disagree, telling WIP that the injury happened late in the game. While Vick took a hit from Cardinals linebacker Daryl Washington while in the pocket on the second play of the game, he also was nailed by linebacker Paris Lenon while scrambling for 7 yards in the fourth quarter. The second hit forced him to sit out a play.
I don't subscribe to the theory that Reid lied and said Vick's injury occurred early in the game to provide an excuse for his poor play. But it's reasonable to wonder whether the second hit played a part in him missing the next three games.
Q: So, you're saying that Vick's play was not an issue last year?
A: That is precisely not what I'm saying. The purpose of yesterday's piece was simply to show that the injuries he suffered last year were not a result of Vick scrambling, leaving the pocket or refusing to slide.
The fact that he was injured four times while throwing from the pocket reinforces the idea that he needs to work closely with Howard Mudd and Jason Kelce this offseason to make sure everyone's on the same page pre-snap. That's especially important now that the Eagles will often have Demetress Bell, not Jason Peters, going up against the opponents' best pass pass rusher on Vick's front side.
The other major issue last year (which we've been over a million times) was turnovers. Vick was picked off once every 30.2 attempts. Not all of those were his fault, but Vick made his share of poor decisions and was often careless with the football after he broke the line of scrimmage and took off to run.
As I've written about in the past, the pieces are in place for Vick to succeed in 2012. He'll have his first full offseason as a starter since 2006. He's got talented weapons at wide receiver, running back and tight end. And the offensive line has a chance to be pretty good. At the age of 32, if Vick can't put everything together under this set of circumstances, chances are it's just not going to happen for him.
You can follow me on Twitter or become a fan of Moving the Chains on Facebook.
As a sight-oriented and mobile QB, Vick is going to get hurried, hit and sacked pretty often; doubly so since the Eagles have become a down-field passing team. When I watch him, I see a QB who rarely 'knows' where his receivers will be, and so he doesn't just drop back and throw to a spot. He needs to have sight of his receivers, so he moves side-to-side in the pocket, trying to see his receivers in-between the linemen (the throwing lanes). This is also why he throws the ball so hard -- he has to. By the time Vick sees his receiver, he has only a moment to let the ball fly before the defenders react,
or the receiver alters his route, or he gets hit/sacked.
All of the moving around he does in the pocket (and let's face it -- at the edges of the pocket) makes it far more difficult for the linemen to protect him, too, since they have no idea where he is. I think this would be the best offensive line (with Peters) in football if a less-mobile QB was behind center.
— critias- Haters should hire Terry Bradshaw from his TV job. He's not mobile at all and he was QB in 4 SB wins. No matter what Vick does, stand there or run, haters will always hate! The Hall of Fame is filled with some short and mobile QBs but that doesn't deter the racist hate for Michael Vick. Any biased excuse will do if you just love pale quarterbacks.— allworld2
critas - dude why aren't you in the booth with Troy Aikman? You both have such insight for what the QB is doing, not doing and how he can help his lineman.- There's not a less mobile QB in the league who could find half the success of Mike Vick behind those Eagles lines giving up 49 Sacks in 2010 and, allowing 32 last year. Better yet, name One Pocket Passing Quarterback that could have had success behind the Eagles Offensive Line.
I can't get why Sheil has to give play by play of those injuries most of which were on National broadcast.
— Dexter - @dexter - because people would rather go with their preconceived notions. sheil is toeing the line here but i imagine he has to be exasperated at the intransigence of so much of his readership.
wtf? each of those plays are in the highlights/lowlights for the respective games. vick took a pretty stunning amount of 'dead bird' shots last year, especially in the beginning of the year. i don't care if you're built like big ben, if someone comes in completely unblocked in under 3 seconds and plows into your ribs, that is going to do damage.
and on the giants play, canty hit him in the chin with his helmet. he probably had at least a slight concussion from that play which the eagles didn't report, but the hand thing was too much for him to overcome, because of the swelling.
all of these knuckleheads will be silent when the line is more stable, he's had an actual offseason to work with his receivers, maclin starts healthy, desean is motivated, and he is back to getting mvp consideration.
— poetx - Vick is the worst QB in the NFL East....Eli Manning, Tony Romo and now RG3 are better than the overrated Vick.....Eli has won TWO Super Bowls in the last 4 years, and Romo was the FOURTH best QB rating in the entire NFL last season...compared to the lousy Vick who's QB rating was FOURTEENTH.....many other QB are also better than Vick including Brady,Rodgers, Brees,Peyton,Big Ben,Stafford, Eli, Romo, Rivers...even the young Cam Newton is better than the overrated Vick...LOL.— phil500
- You're right...Compared to ALL the many playoff games your so-called "Better" QB's like Romo, Stafford, Newton and RG3 have won correct? smdh... what a noddle — A.N.O.
- You're right...Compared to ALL the many playoff games your so-called "Better" QB's like Romo, Stafford, Newton and RG3 have won correct? smdh... what a noddle — A.N.O.
- You're right...Compared to ALL the many playoff games your so-called "Better" QB's like Romo, Stafford, Newton and RG3 have won correct? smdh... what a noddle — A.N.O.
- Really are a lunatic, RG3 has not thrown a pass and he is a better QB, you are a raving lunatic. Romo is what? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL last I checked Mike beat the Cowgirls in the last 3 games he started against them and Romo on threw 1 TD. Oh I guess you missed those games. He has beaten the Deadskins in the last 3 games let see we scored 114 points to 48. Just say no to drugs loser phili500 and you may be able to see clearer! — Blessed8251
- Phil500 is the WORST poster on philly.com He will NEVER be anything more than the WORST poster on philly.com. TNEaglesFan, Dexter, ZubZub, Dudeskins, and many others are WAY better posters than phil500. Why? Because Phil500 is the WORST poster on philly.com, and he will NEVER win the best poster award.— Penfold18
- LOL...the Vick lovers do not like when posters prove that Vick is a $100 million fraud QB...and there are MANY other QB that are better than the lousy Vick....LOL.— phil500
- LOL, wrong, what Vick lovers do not like are frauds such as yuourself..................there are MANY fan better than lousy phil500, Charlie Gardner, GenoD and the list goes on .......LOL — charmaine
Comment removed.- Vick is an old 32 year "running QB"....Vick has NEVER won anything...Vick combined with Reid have won ZERO Super Bowls..Since Reid signed Vick for $100 million as QB 3 years ago...Vick has not even won a stinkin' playoff game...LOL.— phil500
Follow
Sheil on Twitter. And become
a fan of Moving the Chains on Facebook.
Download our NEW iPhone/Android app for even more Birds
coverage, including app-exclusive videos and analysis. Download it here.
