Will NHLPA response lead to settlement? (Ha!)
The Philadelphia Inquirer Blog - Flyers Report: Broad Street Bull
Will NHLPA response lead to settlement? (Ha!)
Sam Carchidi, Inquirer Staff Writer
The NHL Players’ Association, trying to save the season, made counteroffers that the NHL dismissed during an unproductive, one-hour meeting in Toronto on Thursday.
"We're not speaking the same language," said Gary Bettman, the NHL's commissioner.
He said the NHLPA presented three proposals, and called the meeting "a step backward." He said the proposals were all "variations of their first offer."
No new talks have been scheduled.
"I'm thoroughly disappointed," Bettman said.
Donald Fehr, executive director of the NHLPA, said the owners' propsal would cost the players about 12 percent of their salaries. He said one of the union's proposals was to move to a 50-50 split as long as the players' contracts were honored in full and no escrow was involved.
NHL players averaged $2.5 million last season; a 12 percent cut would put the average at $2.2 million.
On Tuesday, the NHL had offered the union a 50/50 split on hockey-related revenue (HRR), provided an 82-game season starts on Nov. 2.
The players’ union had a conference call before Thursday’s meeting, and of the four proposals discussed, all had gradual step-downs from the NHL’s 50/50 offer, ESPN reported.
Bettman said the NHLPA's proposals were "nowhere close" to what the league had offered earlier in the week.
The NHLPA had been asking to get 53 to 54 percent of the HRR. The players received 57 percent in the last collective bargaining agreement.
On Twitter, fans were irate with Fehr.
Tweeted AFleisher91: Donald Fehr is now public enemy #1 for hockey fans..he clearly cares even less about the fans than Bettman.
In addition to the HRR split, there are many other items that need to be ironed out.
The start of Thursday’s meeting was delayed from 1 p.m. to 2:30 p.m. because the NHLPA had a conference call with its executive board and negotiating committee, which includes the Flyers’ Scott Hartnell.
The NHL has said it has lost about $250 million because the exhibition season and the first two weeks of the season were canceled. Some of that money can be recouped if an 82-game season is salvaged.
Bettman said a new CBA has to be signed by Oct. 25 in order to open training camps the next day and start the season on Nov. 2.
But after Thursday's meeting, he headed back to New York and had little optimism that an entire season could be played.
"Obviously, as the calendar ticks away, we're going to be cancelling more games," said the commissioner, adding that the cancelling of the Winter Classic was "rapidly approaching."
Said Fehr: "Today is not a good day. It should have been, but it wasn't."
(more to come)
* * *
Niko Hovinen, the Flyers' highly touted goalie prospect, injured his collarbone in Trenton's ECHL game Wednesday and did not return. Hovinen was hit with a second-period shot in a 3-1 win over Reading.
Flyers GM Paul Holmgren said Hovinen was day to day and would be re-evaluated this weekend.
Poll: What is your reaction to an NHL lockout?
Just fold it up.— Ssteve115- The owners gave the union an offer on Tuesday which they mulled over for 48 hours & came back with 3 counter proposals. The owners looked at the 3 proposals for an hour & left the meeting. To me that shows they have no intention of negotiating. You can argue the owners take the financial risk but the players risk life & limb playing a violent game that I love. Someone needs to be the voice of reason & I don't believe Gary Bettman is that guy!— philadavephia
- This is reality hitting home. Most of the NHL is loosing money. They are a business and in the end they have to make money to continue. If the players disagree, so be it. Let it all crash and burn, then start over in a couple of years.— Dutch-wayne
- How can anyone be surprised? The minute Don Fehr was brought on board, this became inevitable. Never thought I would side with the owners this time but it's painfully obvious now the Fehr with insure there is no NHL this year.— LLCane
- I would love to see all fans of the sport put a bounty on that assclown Bettman's head.— blackknight
- Donald Fehr's mistake is thinking he can play hardball with the hockey owners as much as he did with the baseball owners. What Bettman should tell Fehr is if we have this shared split there will be this many teams in the league, and if we split it your way there will be this many less teams in the NHL costing your membership jobs (and mean it.) If the NHL said to the PA that eight teams will cease to exist unless we get these concessions, the PA's position would change dramatically. If teams are operating at losses, just threaten to shrink the league. The fans in those cities would be upset, but no good business man should have to operate at a loss. Hockey's ticket prices are already too high. Let the PA kill the golden goose.— RunningTheBases
- MEDIATOR— brio
- I'll say it again...I hope it never comes back and I am a life long Flyers fan...1 sport down 3 to go...who needs them, it's getting extremely boring....go away, my beer league is more exciting...— cleflyer
- And proposal #3 from the NHLPA did get them to 50/50. All that the owners needed to do were to be men (persons?) of character, and honor the contracts they've already signed. But, the owners don't want to do that, so..— Phantoms9805
- They are speaking the same language. Money.— P Even
Sorry, I can't relate to either side. I'm just getting queasy thinking about how much Federal taxes I'll again be paying this year. Maybe I should start a non-profit in Philly??— dogman5- The Sixers will be the only game in town - Eagles are tired, Flyers on strike and the Phils are done....interesting turn of events. Go Sixers. Hockey could start in January for all I care - a year off whatever - glad to be off the roller-coaster - are those trees outside - is that my bike?— JourneyHome
- Flyers are not on strike. The players offered to continue playing while negotiations went on. This is a lockout... that's on the owners and the league. — wmichael
- Scratch the word "former" from my previous post. Apparently, he's still in politics.— Phantoms9805
- Scratch the word "former" from my previous post. Apparently, he's still in politics.— Phantoms9805
- How many of you are aware that the league hired a former GOP strategist to do a little PR work for them? Sounds like some of you fell for their dirty little trick (check the name Frank Luntz if you think I'm kidding).— Phantoms9805
- It's not as much about the percentage as it is the owners are taking back from the players. The difference is $60 MILLION dollars from what the NHL is offering. That's considerable! Not to mention the fact that they want to roll back the players salaries by adding the AHL salaries to the cap.
The issue isn't as much as the players wanting MORE is them not wanting considerably less.— macd41144 - Those fans who think Donald Fehr is public enemy number one fell for the Owners PR stunt. The Owners offer wasn't a good one and wasn't a big step forward. It was a HUGE PR stunt for the Owners and it seems alot of NHL fans took the Bait. This deal wasn't good for the players or good for the fans. I don't want the NHL players to fold. They should hold out and go player overseas until they get a fair deal. The NHL owners need to be taught a lesson as they will continue to try and take more and more pay each time there is a new agreement needed. The Players folded last time now they need to stand their ground. Gary Bettman is the enemy of hockey, not Donald Fehr.— ChrisM
- Tonguewagger you're an idiot!— sanfrand
- Stop blaming the players. They want what we want, the ability for a team like the Flyers to pay as much as possible for the best product on the ice. And Freddy, blame the players for the ticket price? Ha! You think for one second the NHL's proposal will save the fans a dime? It would be the worst of all worlds: $100 a ticket to subsidize small market teams. Nashville, Columbus, etc. will still charge $15 a ticket to put the same product on the ice as we will get for $100.
Players, hold out as long as you can to get the best deal you can. When you're ready to return, and you throw yourself at this game like there's no tomorrow, I'll be watching.— TongueWagger - Do not listen anymore, but what could the WIP Morning Show be talking about that people would possibly listen without hockey?
— TEMPLE55 - I have not clue as to why Revenue sharing is even a question. If I own a business I don't give my employees 50% of my profits, that is just insane. A player who makes 5, 6 7 Million a year can't live on that?— LAFlyer
- If you owned a business, hopefully you'd know the difference between revenues and profits. Profits are what you have left over after expenses. One of the expenses is the cost of your labor. Owners keep all the profits. — wmichael
- Freddy, it's not the players fault they make so much money, it's the owners who pay it. You know the line; "if I don't pay it someone will" so how much do you want that player.
It's sad that the Billionaire owners and multimillionaire players get their money, yet I can't afford to take my two boys to more than maybe one game a year. The fans gets screwed. Why should the players care, Parise and others are still getting their salary.— LAFlyer - Sorry, but until the owners figure out that true revenue sharing is the only way to solve these issues, the blame lies with them. Plus, there were, I'm sure, other roadblocks in the contract (the AHL salaries counting against the cap, for instance) that the players weren't going to accept.
Bettman just can't handle the fact that he's actually facing off (see what I did there?) against someone with some stones....— Phantoms9805 - It's amazing how players in any league would demand a 50/50 split of revenue. Yes, they are the products that sell the league, however the owners are the ones employing them signing their paychecks. If you own something, and then have to split the profits 50/50, what is really the point of being an owner. The fact the owners are willing to submit this far really puts this in the players corner. No other major leagues (NBA/NFL) would ever even dream of spliting revenue's at an equal percentage.— ryanrockzzz
- First off, they're talking about a splitting REVENUES, not PROFITS. Profits are what you have left over after expenses. One of the expenses is the cost of your labor. Second, you're right, the other sports don't split revenue equally, the players actually get more than half:
MLB: players get approx. 52% of revenues
NFL: players get 55% of revenues
NBA: players get between 49-51% of revenues, depending on overall revenue growth— wmichael - 3 proposals? What kind of nonsense is that? Hey players.. you are the reason it costs $100+ to go to a Flyers game. You have ZERO leverage. I am so pissed right now. Go to Russia Hartnell!!!!— Freddy
- Ya know what, just suspend the NHL as a business indefinitely. The players can still play the game they love in other pro leagues and the owners can still roll around in the $ they love. ...No need for the NHL in order for both sides to experience this love, correct?— Reality Speaks
- This is sad. Player get paid a million dollar salary and they can't accept a 50% stake? How about the owners give them 57% again but cut every players salary by 10%. Sorry but players are "hired" by owners to play for them for a negotiated salary. If they don't play they don't get paid. Sorry but I am thoroughly tired of this.— LAFlyer
- "...players are "hired" by owners to play for them for a negotiated salary."____Yeah, but now the owners don't want to pay the "negotiated salary".-----"If they don't play they don't get paid."___The players are not playing because the owners have opted to lock them out.
— snad264 - Go back and re-read the article: "one of the union's proposals was to move to a 50-50 split as long as the players' contracts were honored in full and no escrow was involved." So they DID offer to accept the 50/50 split, they just weren't interested in giving up that "negotiated salary" you mentioned. — wmichael
- Who even cares anymore. Losing more and more interest in pro sports
— EdPhillyfan - "GREED"— lost eagle
