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Saturday, November 8, 2008
Is Carle the Flyers' solution?

Can defenseman Matt Carle solve the problems plaguing the 4-5-3 Flyers?

We'll see.

Carle was acquired from Tampa Bay last night, along with a third-round draft selection, for enigmatic winger Steve Downie, improving defenseman Steve Eminger and a fourth-round pick.

From here, the Flyers should have received more _ say, a second-round pick thrown into the mix.

Many long-time observers think the Flyers did well.

Again, we'll see.

Carle has slipped dramatically from his superb rookie season (11 goals, 31 assists, plus-9) with San Jose.  He was healthy lat year, but managed just two goals and 13 assists and was minus-8 with the Sharks. The slump caused him to be taken off the power play.

This year, he couldn't get untracked, either (one goal and one assist in 12 games), and the Tampa media said he was a defensive liability.

He is an upgrade in that he can rush the puck, a quality the Flyers need.

But the price was steep. The 6-2, 215-pound Eminger, after a shaky start, adjusted to the system and was playing steadily lately. He gave the club their only righthanded defenseman and he was playing on the power play recently. Eminger was criticized because he fell down and it led to a breakaway against Ottawa Thursday, but he was plus-five in his last six games. For the season, he was even in the plus-minus rankings. (The 6-foot, 205-pound Carle was plus-1).

Downie is the wild card. Yes, he's been disappointing. Yes, he took too many ill-advised penalties. But the former No. 1 draft pick has loads of potential; he was slowed by an injury early in the season and never got into a rhythm with the Flyers as he was yo-yo-ed back and forth to the Phantoms. He had a total of six assists in his last two AHL games before the deal.

The trade will be viewed differently IF it helps the Flyers _ who are about $818,000 under the cap _ find a way to sign free-agent winger Brendan Shanahan. The deal opened a spot for the Flyers, whose roster is now down to 49 _ one below the maximum.

Stay tuned.

 

Posted by Sam Carchidi @ 5:54 PM  Permalink | 22 comments
22
Comments   
Posted 07:55 PM, 11/15/2008
SuPrimeau
Downie was whatever u took him as. When he got 2nd n 3rd line time playing with richards and hartnell he still didnt really produce what they thought he would...his lack of discipline at times really killed them. The way homer probably saw it was they could play nodl or ross or giroux up with the flyers for cheaper and get more out of them. There was no way he could beat out cote for the enforcers spot bc riley is by far the smartest enforcer in the league when it comes to how he plays. Worst case with Carle is he doesnt perform down the stretch and you package him and his salary up.
Posted 09:35 PM, 11/13/2008
JFM557
I hope the Flyers continue to have a lousy season....it's a trash organization and a comcast product....I wish the Islanders were better,seeing the flyers in last place is enjoying.
Posted 06:17 PM, 11/11/2008
33 YRS & COUNTING
<>. You obviously didn't follow Bob Clarke's hideous tenure here as GM.
Posted 05:06 PM, 11/11/2008
Tartan69
I have heard from people in the know that Downie's very low intelligence level had worn thin on the organ-EYE-zation, and that Homer has thought about getting rid of him since he took over for Clarkie. The guy had a lot of off-ice issues that didn't get much media coverage either. Bottom line, he didn't fit the team's goals.
Posted 04:20 PM, 11/11/2008
ralphj
sam, stick to high school sports. no way the flyers should have recd a 2nd pick as well....eminger stinks and was playing horrible hockey. downie is a bonehead. between the two of them, a ton of terrible defensive plays. carle just needs to regain confidence and may turn out to be a steal. (remember coburn)...
Posted 03:00 PM, 11/11/2008
Danno
Everyone has made a lot of good points, but sometimes this comes down to musical chairs - and Downie didn't end up with one. There were many analysts questioning where Downie's future was on this team with Knuble, Lupul and then Giroux & Van Riemsdycke primed for roster spots over the next year or two. When you consider the Flyers lost the contributions of Kapennen and Thorizen, two competent wingers who chipped in some offentse at opportune times. We simply weren't getting that with Downie, and Giroux turned out not to be ready this year - so there's a huge hole on the right side. I saw this weakness on right wing first hand Saturday night at the WAC against Tampa. They are not balanced right now, loaded on left wing but not much on the right. Passes to the right side went ignored (literally nobody there). This is why Holmgren is after Shanahan. He needs somebody there until the younger guys are ready, and also to replace the two aforementioned solid players. I think we learned this year the significance of 3rd & 4th line players and their contributions. There are some very functional players not on the Flyers roster this year (Kappy, Thorizen, Umberger, Dowd) who produced goals and played decent D. If you need proof, think back as to why some of the above names played on the top 3 lines to "generate energy". They gave this team a lift every now and then, and this year the supporting cast is not strong enough to do that. Even though Eminger somehow managed to be a +5 in the last 5 games, he displayed the same symptoms as Downie. They both experienced significant mental lapses, requiring the other forwards to cover for them. This extra D coverage takes a toll, considering the same personnel is playing special teams too. They need to reduce the number of mental errors which were significant in the Tampa game, and that is done by balancing minutes. I don't think things are going to settle down w/consistency until Jones and Parent are back unfortunately.
Posted 10:24 AM, 11/11/2008
rockinrob
After this season 33 you will need to change your name. After trades like this and management making decisions with the same lack of insight as your post, the Flyers will continue to dive. Let us not forget we are just one year removed from the worst team in hockey and if management continues these dumb moves and Coach Mumbles continues behind the bench, we may again have that dubious distinction this year.
Posted 06:53 PM, 11/10/2008
phlyer19
Downie is 21 and peopel are acting like he's a developed player who just won't cut it in the NHL....he's 21! Furthermore he's the type of player, given his level of maturity, lack of discipline and weakish skating that needed to be brought along/developed with more patience...instead they threw him into fires with a short leash and based on a small sample of play, many jumped to the conclusion that he just wasn't ever going to cut it. That's bogus and this may come back to haunt the Flyers. Eminger was a decent player, but the Flyers were, I'm afraid, looking for him to be a puck carrier, which isn't his strongest suit...I mean, he can do it, but he needs to be paired with a puck carrier to play his game which is predominantly a defensive role with some powerplay ability. Th pairing with Alberts was horrible and he always looked best when he got to play a little bit with some of the more competent players like Sbisa and Coburn that complemented his game better. And dave-tx, Eminger actually had a very strong playoffs agains the Flyers. McGuire from TSN even pointed out how strong he played and I agree...he played at the level of a decent second pairing D man...he was hitting, mkaing good defensive plays and pitching in on offense. I wish we got a chance to see that Steve Eminger versus the one we saw in his short time here. Hopefully Carle helps us.
Posted 05:49 PM, 11/10/2008
Bunns
How can people say Downie has been a huge disappointment? He hasn't had any real opportunity! When he gets called up, he's shackled on the 4th line playing 5 minutes a night. You don't draft 4th line guys in the first round. He needs a chance to play everyday, getting significant minutes until you can label him a disappointment.
Posted 05:16 PM, 11/10/2008
33 YRS & COUNTING
It's amazing how these Flyer fans think Downie is the second coming of Gordie Howe on right wing. The truth is that disgraced former GM Bob Clarke REACHED for this guy in the 1st round of the 2005 NHL entry draft; he was projected by COMPETENT NHL scouts and GMs to go in the THIRD round of that draft, and the failed Clarke inexplicably went off the board to select him late in mid-20's of the FIRST round. Skill-wise, the guy does nothing well, most notably a dreadfully poor skater. You Flyer fans are lamemting that he's "a Flyer-type of player"...yeah, the same 3rd-4th line grinder type that hasn't won a Stanley Cup in 33 years. The mediocre Lightning thought SO HIGHLY of him that upon his acquisition, he was immediately assigned to Norfolk of the AHL, where he was slapped with a 20-minute major penalty in his first game. But hey, he's a Flyer-type player!!
Posted 04:31 PM, 11/10/2008
rockinrob
Except Daigle did not help Team Canada to the Gold Medal in the World Junior Championships (two years in a row was it)? Comparing Daigle to Downie is like comparing Bobby D to a hockey fan that is in the know.
Posted 02:10 PM, 11/10/2008
cheeseheadflyer
Alexander Daigle showed signs of being a good NHL player at times too.....Maybe Downie dug pucks out of the corners 9 out of 10 times, but the problem was the 1 time was because of a hooking or slashing penalty taken at the most in-opportune times. Sometimes a guy just needs that change of scenery. But with Downie, who knows? Potential doesn't always equal success.
Posted 02:04 PM, 11/10/2008
WTF!?
BobbyD is right... other than taking ridiculously stupid penalties over and over again, Downie was a huge disappointment. Yes, he is young and has had very limited ice time (mostly with the 4th line) but the reality is that he has showed basically nothing. He is a slow skater, was not excelling in any aspect of the game, and did not seem to get back on track after that ridiculously harsh suspension last year. Perhaps a change of scenery will do him well. On another note, I am not a big Stevens fan (love the Mumbles reference), but Melrose is one of the biggest idiots of all time and makes Stevens look like Scotty Bowman.
Posted 12:25 PM, 11/10/2008
BobbyD
Downie did nothing well. He's too small to fight, doesn't skate well, doesn't have a good shot. Is he a checker? I think a first round pick should be a lot better than a 4th line or extra player, which is what he is. Let me buy you the bus ticket to Norfolk chump.
Posted 09:58 AM, 11/10/2008
rockinrob
Bobby D what is your claim to fame bro? You mock Downie as heading to Norfolk but the closest you ever got to a professional athlete was when you rubbed against your big screen. BroadStreet is right. Downie is a prototypical Flyers player. He hit, he was a grinder and he had skills. I have noticed lately the Flyers are not winning too many battles on the boards and we are not hitting....aye there's the rub.
Posted 08:06 AM, 11/10/2008
dave-tx
Carle's an upgrade over Eminger; I don't know why Homer made that trade with Washington in the first place - Eminger wasn't any good last year, and was awful in the playoffs against the Flyers. Waste of a first round pick in a deep draft. At least this moves us past that. Carle's got potential that Eminger doesn't have.
Posted 06:24 AM, 11/10/2008
BobbyD
You'd pay to see Downie play? You better catch the next bus to Norfolk VA, because that's his next stop.
Posted 09:03 PM, 11/09/2008
BroadStreet
I was disappointed to see Downie go. He was undisciplined at times but he also had moments that showed he is going to be a great NHLer for a long time to come. I thought he showed a lot of poise handling the puck under pressure last year as a rookie. He was also a guy that brought a ton of energy and wouldn't back down to anyone. A prototypical Flyer. Fitting that he wore Hextall's #27. I'll pay to see a guy like that any day. Flyers need defense though and were abundant with offense. Didn't see much from Carle in his first game. Hope he can regain his form from San Jose.
Posted 04:01 PM, 11/09/2008
HockeyAdam22
Claudio, they were at the allotted 50 contract max. Thats why they cant just go out and sign Berard. Same reason they couldnt just go out and sign Shanny. By trading two players for one now they are able to, provided they can fit him under the cap.
Posted 08:36 AM, 11/09/2008
rockinrob
Many long time observers?? Who are these dolts? Eminger was playing good hockey for the Flyers and Downie is 21 years old, but has excelled at every other level. Perhaps if Downie played more than 4 minutes a game......Coach Mumbles has got to go because he is the problem. It was a nice run last year, but it was based on talent and not coaching. Mumbles blames everyone else for the Flyers fall, and in the meantime we lose good players. The Downie and Eminger trade was a Flyers disgrace and management should be ashamed they got fleeced by Melrose and the Lightning. I went to the game last night and Matt Carle was the second best defenseman in his pairing with Sbisa. The rookie played much better and it makes me wonder what other excuses Mumbles will use as the Flyers continue to slide.
Posted 10:49 PM, 11/08/2008
Mark1npt
Hatcher's lucky he can walk......he should have a total knee replacement rather than try to play again, ever....don't hold your breath......
Posted 09:47 PM, 11/08/2008
Claudio Vernight
One thing that puzzled me is why the Flyers didn't just go looking for Bryan Berard who plays a similar style to Carle and comes with just the price of a rather insignificant salary. What Carle represents is another fairly long term contract commitment on the blueline along with Timonen and Jones and soon, Coburn. Then there are the rookies Parent and Sbisa and no real punishing hitter in this bunch. I like Vanaanen and think he deserves a home in Philly but overall this is a blueline thatlacks balance. Any idea if Hatcher will try and make a return by the trade deadline? If he isn't skating and conditioning soon, then I assume he is done.
About Sam Carchidi
Sam Carchidi, who has covered primarily South Jersey high school sports and the Phillies for three decades, is in his second year as the Flyers’ beat writer. He has followed the Flyers since their inception in 1967-68, and remembers when only the third periods of their games were broadcast on the radio - just seven years before they became the city's most popular franchise.

Carchidi has written three books _ the nationally acclaimed Miracle in the Making: The Adam Taliaferro Story, which he co-authored with Scott Brown; Bill Campbell: The Voice of Philadelphia Sports; and Standing Tall: The Kevin Everett Story, which was featured on the Oprah Winfrey Show.

A lifelong South Jersey resident, Carchidi lives in Wenonah, N.J., with his wife, JoAnn, and he is a passionate sports fan of the colleges attended by his daughter, Sara (tiny Mount St. Mary’s in Maryland, which qualified for the NCAA men’s basketball tournament last season and is unbeaten in football since 1951) and his son, Sammy (West Virginia, an annual challenger for the nation’s No. 1 ranking in football and men’s basketball).
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