Gagne deal doesn't make much sense, but....
The Philadelphia Inquirer Blog - Flyers Report: Broad Street Bull
Gagne deal doesn't make much sense, but....
Sam Carchidi, Inquirer Staff Writer
(NOTE: Powe/Betts update below)
In three seasons, general manager Paul Holmgren has transformed the Flyers from the NHL’s worst team to Stanley Cup finalists.
So Holmgren obviously knows what he is doing.
But…
The team’s off-season moves have been more confusing than ‘Inception.”
To review:
The Flyers have failed to upgrade their goaltending, have gotten worse on offense, and are paying $4 million per season to a recently acquired player (Andrej Meszaros) who might be their No. 5 defenseman.
On Monday, they traded left winger Simon Gagne _ the classy, gritty veteran who returned from a broken foot and carried the Flyers into last season’s Finals _ to Tampa Bay for a player they didn’t need (defenseman Matt Walker) and just a fourth-round pick in 2011.
All because they needed to clear cap space.
OK, OK. It’s dangerous to judge the deal until all moves are made. Holmgren could have another trade coming.
But, from here, Gagne was just the type of fast, two-way player the Flyers NEEDED. And if they were going to trade him, they should have held out for a much bigger return. (Isn’t it easy being an armchair GM?)
The Gagne deal was set in motion by the puzzling July 1 deal in which the Flyers sent a second-round 2012 draft pick to Tampa Bay for the underachieving (and expensive) Meszaros.
The beefy Meszaros upgrades the Flyers’ defense, but the club is now paying a combined $21.8 million (of the $59.4 million maximum cap) for its five top defensemen. That’s $4.4 million for each of their top-five D-men.
Was the Meszaros trade necessary? If that deal had not been made, the Flyers could have kept Gagne _ and had a third defensive pairing of Sean O’Donnell and Oskars Bartulis. (That would have been an upgrade over Ryan Parent and Bartulis.)
It would have given the Flyers the following possible lines:
Gagne-Richards-Carter; Leino-Briere-Hartnell; JVR-Giroux-Zherdev; Carcillo/Shelley-Betts-Lappy. That’s three solid lines and a very good checking unit.
Now the lines may shape up like this:
Zherdev-Richards-Carter; Leino-Briere-Hartnell; JVR-Giroux-Carcillo; Powe/Shelley-Betts-Lappy.
The Gagne deal does open room for the possible re-signing of underrated Arron Asham, who could play RW on Giroux’s unit and bump Carcillo to the fourth line.
Again, Holmgren has worked wonders in transforming the Flyers from bottom-feeders to Cup finalists and deserves the benefit of the doubt.
But right now, there are a lot of doubters _ especially since L.A. lost out to New Jersey Monday in the Ilya Kovalchuk sweepstakes and was seemingly desperate to add a quality winger.
Wouldn’t it have made more sense to wait a few days to see if the Kings offered more for Gagne?
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The Gagne deal did free cap room for the Flyers to re-sign Darroll Powe, who inked a one-year deal for $725,000 on Wednesday. The Flyers are about $325,000 under the cap. They can still make some demotions and have enough room to sign Asham.
Powe may start the season as the Flyers' fourth-line center. Blair Betts is recovering from shoulder surgery and could miss the first month of the regular season.
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For Flyers updates, follow me on Twitter at www.twitter.com/BroadStBull.
This team as constructed now has a one or two year window. The draft picks of high variety have been traded away. Remember the core forwards were no 1's Richards, Carter, Giroux. We have given up more than gained this offseason in future commodoties to maybe have a weaker team. Gagne would have walked after the season, but if Zherdev puts up good numbers, he will also. Defense wins championships, but we really needed a forward to come back in the deal.Maybe one of these surplus defensemen will go to bring a forward in another deal. We have allowed alot of goals to walk over the last two offseasons!— curtis80- i love gagne, but as MB says, a much bigger return from who? a whole lotta speculation in these posts but lets be real.....gagne is 30 yrs old and injuries are catching up with him, I'm sure he'll have his moments still but he's been injured and/or mostly mediocre for the past few seasons (great playoffs but looked very slow for much of the season), so he's far from a hot commodity and his hefty contract is up in a year anyway-what exactly are you all expecting to get for the guy? Flyers are bolstering their D (maybe overpaying some, we'll see) for more help in front of their goalies, which nearly everyone agreed was the biggest issue in the Finals (our top 4 Dmen played so many minutes and were gassed later on bec our 5 & 6 sucked)--now we have better depth and talent there--Flyers have been to the Conf/Cup finals in 2 of the last 3 years in the East, which aint too shabby--and stop already with the Asham and Carcillo comments....ok players but far from huge factors in all of this.— btb
- I just have to point out, once again, that every NHL GM in the league knew that the Flyers had to make a move to get under the cap. In that scenario, there is no "waiting for a better deal." There is either take the deal on the table, and get something for your player, or waive him, and get nothing. I expect the moronic masses who post here not to get to that, Sam, but you should know better.— sfactor
- If these are actually the top 3 lines, we are in big trouble unless Briere & Carter both have 40-goal seasons. Zherdev-Richards-Carter: 2 guys who need a map to find the defensive zone Leino-Briere-Hartnell: Detroit unloaded Leino for a reason. The biggest factor in his playoff run was that he hardly played all season and had a full tank of gas while everyone else was on fumes. As for Hartnell, I don't think a dozen good games at the end of the season erases 80 bad ones. JVR-Giroux-Carcillo: In order to maximize Giroux's skills, he has to be paired with a proven finisher.— Snap Crackle Propp
- I've liked Holmgren's moves in the past, but this summer has proven that he doesn't deserve the GM position. He made moves just to make moves... We were in the finals (maybe by luck), all we needed was a little fine tuning, not a dismantling. He signed players the flyers obviously couldn't afford, pulled the trigger early and took away any trading leverage we had with other teams. I hope the old saying in football carries over to hockey "Defense wins championships," bc if it doesn't, the Flyers are going to have a sub-par year with the forwards we have. I guess Homer fell in love with TB's defense a few years ago bc we have half of them on our payroll this year.— the sichee-ation
- Romus before you award gm of the year to Yzerman, Gagne is a 30 year old, injury prone, out of his prime & he makes more than 5 million a year.— phillysportsfan88
- beagle29 "Why do people assume they could have gotten more than Walker and a 4th rd pick for a 30 year old with concussion issues?" Maybe because the Flyers traded Upshall and gave a 2nd round pick for Carcillo. When and in what universe is Carcillo more valuable the Gagne? Gagne with concussions or one toe is better than Carcillo. Seriously dude, I dont think anyone is suggesting the Flyers should have gotten a top line winger or stud prospects for Gagne, but you do not go taking a 8th d-man for a $1.7 million dollar cap hit if you are SALARY DUMPING. Get a 3rd round pick and 5th rd pick with no salary coming back. Holmgren forces himself into these kinds of trades by not knowing how to manage the CAP, bad contract, etc. So to say he had to do this, I do not feel for him and continue to make excuses for him as most Flyers Fans. Carcillo = decent player and 2nd round pick, Gagne = 4th rd pick and Walker. That is laughable at best so if that is anyone's argument I will laugh all year long.— Hunter-NJ
- "I just have to point out, once again, that every NHL GM in the league knew that the Flyers had to make a move to get under the cap. In that scenario, there is no "waiting for a better deal." There is either take the deal on the table, and get something for your player, or waive him, and get nothing. I expect the moronic masses who post here not to get to that, Sam, but you should know better" Again, who put them in that position to have to make those kinds of deals? Holmgren did and he continues to do it by taking on a 8th d-man for $1.7 million. You guys keep saying they had no choice, they could not get better. They could have gotten another pick a higher pick other than what they got. Carcillo was traded to the Flyers and the Flyers gave them Upshall and a 2nd round pick. Why would they give a player who is better than Carcillo and a 2nd pick for Carcillo? I will answer that, dont worry. They had to, because this GM constantly puts this team in the position to make bad trades. So to say he had no choice is covering up for him and having a short term memory. If you keep repeating the past mistakes you will get the same results year in and year out. Let's face it guys, the Flyers were lucky to make the playoffs last year and amazed once they got in. Quit being so "IN LOVE" with the Flyers as nothing they do is above criticism. I am a realist.— Hunter-NJ
- beefbr is right, trading Gagne was a good thing. he has not recovered after the first two concussions. I remember hearing the Flyers was going to add a forward, defenseman and goalie. That was it! We should have learned from our mistakes the first time. Emory may have a career ending injury. Zherdev was let go to his inconsistency. We should have gone to adding at least 1 solid player to each position. I also agree to adding size to the team as well. Adding Shelley has helped out Carcillo and Lappy a bit. I do not believe in Signing O'Donnell or Meszaros. I like Matt Walker but not sure we should have added him. I like Cote but he hasn't shown us a goal in 3.5 yrs. Only has 1. The way the game is being played and moving forward. I do not see Cote ever playing hockey in the NHL again. We did not need to sign Powe when Laliberte had a few good games with us. He could have been the forward we needed. Less money, plays well and can score. Zherdev, Powe, Meszaros, O'Donnell was a waste of money. The trade for Gags I would take to add Size to our bk end with Bartulis. Maybe we should have gone after Bobby Ryan, Marc Andre-Bergeron, re sign Asham and Carcillo, signed Shelley for the size and bring up Laliberte from the minors. Maybe have something left over for Bernier..Good Job Flyers on killing the Cap again— Flyers_70
Yes, Gagne is the "type of fast, two-way player the Flyers NEEDED" But the problem has been actually having him on the ice to fill that role on a consistent basis. And that hasn't happened in a long time. He's just one of those guys that could've really been great if he avoided the injuries. All the talent in the world doesn't help if you're in a suit in the press box.- No one was going to give much for the often injured Gagne. Holmgren has effed up the salary cap so bad that he has to make trades to make trades just to field a team and not have to play a bunch of Phantoms. his own doing. He also has quietly traded away a bunch of good young players who now look to be better than anything he has traded for.— UncleStosh
- CupOrBust - I disagree. I think the players UNDERachieved in the regular season. Most experts had them as Cup contenders when the season started (Hockey News picked them to win the Cup). I don't think they got "lucky", I think they finally started playing up to expectations. This team has plenty of talent (except maybe in goal - but then Chicago was pretty sketchy in goal last season and they managed to win the Cup). They just have to play up to that talent. That means playing hard for 60 minutes night in and night out. That's been their problem over the past few seasons. Hopefully a whole season under Laviolette will help that.— dennis27
- one more hit to head gagne done.Was hard to watch him during season afraid he would get hurt again .I hope he doesn't since great team player.They should of dumped softie carter— lawrence2465
- Ok let's look at your comments 1 point at a time. Failed to upgrade goaltending - they have the same tandem that took them to the finals last season, but behind a deeper defense. Call that a push. Because they are not OVERSPENDING for an unproven goalie, they can have a 3rd defense pair with a multi-million dollar player. Personally I see Mezaros playing with either Pronger or Timonen and Carle or Coburn playing with O'Donnell. Again this is a huge gain over a team that was a bounce away from the cup. Call this a big PLUS! Finally Gagne. While I have been a huge fan of his, I would not call him gritty as you did. I would call him oft-injured and expensive. So his move was gaining freedom of a huge contract and taking back a guy that can help your young guys in the AHL develop. I would call Holmgren's moves solid and calculated. He added offensive flair from Detroit in Leino. He has a cheap contract with a talented kid in Zherdev. Gagne's 16 goals from last season will be surpassed by both of these guys at a fraction of the cost.— Phigment
- Let's face it. The major issue addressed with the Gags trade was cap space for Zherdev. (personall I wish it were Hartnell since he ONLY showed up in the playoffs) We are still working hard to replace the more than 20 goals lost when Knuble was let go. The fact that Homer bought a finesse player(like Leino) and a Russian at that, shows Homer going in the direction that Laviolette needs. Speed. All you nay-sayers watch and learn. Zherdev was the core of this deal. If you watch his tape, you'll see he scores up tight and close to the goal, from tough angles. THAT is what we needed. AND A full year under Lavi and it will be speed speed speed players. Gags wouldn't have held up.— headcaseno9
