Well played, Ruben
Why the trade for Cliff Lee makes so much sense for the Phillies.
Well played, Ruben
Rich Hofmann, Daily News Sports Columnist
I wanted Roy Halladay. You wanted Roy Halladay. Some people said they didn't care what it took to get him. But, well, come on. There had to be some limit, right?
Now it will be Cliff Lee and right-handed bat Ben Francisco, in exchange for Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson and Jason Donald. Lee is not Halladay. Carrasco & Co. are not Kyle Drabek, Jay Happ and Dominic Brown. These are both true facts. The Phillies and their rookie GM, Ruben Amaro Jr., played this right.
Long-term, we all can agree that the Phils are in better shape than if they had traded Drabek and Brown as part of the package to get Halladay. That isn't to say that Carrasco won't be useful and that Knapp -- a big kid with a huge fastball -- won't end up being very, very good. This wasn't theft. The Phillies did give up four players who could very well end up being major-league contributors. But they kept their big pieces -- Drabek, Brown and Michael Taylor. Again, long-term, this is clearly a win.
Short-term -- ignoring Francisco, a need -- we can boil everything down to this question: which would you rather have in October, Halladay alone or the combination of Lee and Happ?
Let's take an opening-round series against San Francisco as one example. In Game 1, you would have Tim Lincecum against either Lee or Halladay. Neither would have a clear-cut advantage over the other. If each man pitched to expectations, the game likely would be decided in the bullpen -- Halladay or Lee, doesn't matter. Now, go to Game 4. In one case, if they trade for Halladay, it is Moyer/Martinez/Lopez vs. whatever able-bodied guy the Giants can find (remember, Randy Johnson is on the 60-day DL, scrambling everything). Again, you are likely looking at a game decided in the bullpen. In the other case, with the Lee trade, you still have Happ and you suddenly have a clear advantage in Game 4.
Again, if you want to argue that Lee isn't Halladay, that's fair. But the differences are incremental, not enormous. The fact that you get to keep Happ turns incremental into something even smaller, and maybe shrinks the difference to nothing. Again, that's in the short-term.
Now, if Halladay ends up in Boston, the conversation might change. But between then and now, Amaro played this exactly right.
Posted by e4stringer 04:45 PM, 07/29/2009 This is more than just playoffs '09. This positively affects next year (and beyond). While Halladay is certainly an upgrade over Lee, as you stated, it's not huge -- maybe 1-2 wins? The difference in salary (~7 million) affects what the Phils do with Blanton and who they can and will bring back/pick-up for next year. Also, this gives the 2010 team Happ and possibly Drabek at some point. This was an excellent trade. With that being said, prospects are still prospects, and the Phls could still spin any of their "untouchables" for further help before Friday, during the off-season, or at next year's deadline. Nice to have some bullets left in the chamber.....People are talking about the money and frankly money is not a huge issue. The Phillies have a TON on dead money coming off the books after this year. Myers at 8 million per, Jenkins at 8, Eaton at 9-10 and Thome for 6 million. So technically they could take both for a year and a half without significantly raising payroll. But the obviously no more bullets left. Just saying. Trade is fine as long as Roy doesn't end up with another contender b/c to paraphrase another Halladay is the best, you want to get the best.— Captain- ...I like it. He has a great ERA, especially if you consider its mostly vs. AL. I think he is 12-2 lifetime vs. NL. Plus, we keep Drabek, Haap, Brown and Taylor. Now, get another reliever.— beefbr
- We don't want any playoff game to come down to the bullpen at this point. "Lights on Lidge" needs to get it together or it could be a short October.— fins
- A+ by Amaro. Getting Ibanez and Lee in his first year is HUGE. Also getting the 2nd best available pitcher for half the price is incredible. GREAT WORK— ckirk255
- Even though we wanted Halliday, just a note about Lee. Halliday might not go at all, and so might not be a factor in the playoffs, but if we didn't get Lee, the Dodgers would have. Would we want to face a tough lefty like Lee in the LCS with our lineup? With these pitchers, if we hit we win.— lashner
- We won't know how good this trade is until we find what Happ, Drabek and Brown turn into.— jtg170
- Sherill would be a nice pick up, however don't count out Myers to be in the pen in august...Was great for us in 07'.— Will.i.Am
- there are real serious idiots in this town....who in their right mind would think its a good idea to trade the rest of our prospects for halladay so then in 2010 when everyone is gone...we have nothing!!! you should have pass some type of intelligence test to post a comment on here!— dps2080
- there are real serious idiots in this town....who in their right mind would think its a good idea to trade the rest of our prospects for halladay so then in 2010 when everyone is gone...we have nothing!!! you should have pass some type of intelligence test to post a comment on here!— dps2080
- Lets see Lee against Lincecum on Saturday!!!— KevinRx
- " . . . secure your chances for three in a row"? Win number two first, pal. Then talk about the third one.— MaC130
- plus plus plus plus plus!!!!!!!!!!!!— phil722
Great move. If the Jays trade Halladay into their own division, they're crazy. And who else has--AND WILL GIVE UP--what the Jays want for this guy? The best thing about getting Lee is that the Dodgers WON'T get him. The Phillies could never have gotten past them in the playoffs if Lee was in a Dodger uniform. The BONUS to this deal could be Francisco IF he comes through as the righthanded power bat the Phillies need.- I don't care who gets Halliday. But I hope no one in the hunt gets Halladay. Also, I hope that Hammels(Hamels) builds on last night and that Reuben(Ruben)trades for some back end bullpen help. I also hope against hope that people learn to spell the names of people they attempt to speak intelligently about. But I don't see it happening. Every other word in your note can be spelled wrong and who cares but names that have been shoved down your throat(and on jerseys most of the time) you should know by now.— Captain
- Points well takend and the key, key word: Bullpen. If these current arms on the DL don't heal adequately then the bullpen won't preserve the fine work of the starting rotation. We need a legitimate reliever. We need George Sherrill. We get a guy like Sherrill it would seem that the Phils would be the favorites.— ROBPHI
