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Thursday, September 25, 2008
Piniella hands one to Mets
My night began with a post about how Cubs manager Lou Piniella was resting three of his biggest bats -- Aramis Ramirez, Derrek Lee and Alfonso Soriano -- in a game with huge implications for the Mets, Phillies and Brewers. And how it kind of mocked the notion of the integrity of the pennant race that everyone in baseball loves to talk about.

Then they played the game and it got worse.

The big bats stayed on the bench, right to the end. Daryle Ward was the pinch-hitter Piniella called on in the top of the ninth inning with two runners on base and two outs in a tie game. Yes, Daryle Ward.

And the bullpen? Bob Howry blew the save in the eighth inning. Kevin Hart lost the game in the ninth inning. Carlos Marmol? Kerry Wood? Nope and nope. They stayed dry as the Mets scored one in the seventh, two in the eighth and one in the ninth to come from behind and win, 7-6.

Yes, it was wet at Shea Stadium. Yes, you are entitled to give some people some rest after you have clinched your own business. But propriety suggests that you rest one or two guys at a time and no more. Common decency suggests you don't take the field with the Iowa Cubs and then do nothing as the game slips away in the late innings.

But that is what Piniella did. And because of that, the Phillies' lead over the Mets is one game with three to play.
Posted by Rich Hofmann @ 10:57 PM  Permalink | 54 comments
54
Comments   
Posted 04:11 PM, 09/26/2008
duffers
Phillies fans are so lame anymore. "Integrity of the game"???? Im sure you would be saying the same thing if the roles were reversed and we were playing Howard and Utley everyday. Hypocrites man
Comment removed.
Posted 01:27 PM, 09/26/2008
djacobs5582
umm...before we start blaming lou, has anyone pointed out that derek lee's backup, hoffpauir went 5-5 with 2 homers and 5 RBI? That was a downgrade? Really?
Posted 01:20 PM, 09/26/2008
Kramerica
Please. If the Phils had wrapped things up already, I'd want to see Adam Eaton and Kyle Kendrick start on Saturday and Sunday. I'd want Howard and Jimmy and Utley and Lidge resting. It isn't the Cubs job to keep things "fair" for the Phillies. While I certainly wanted to see the Mets lose, I would want Chawl to make the same moves if the Phils were in the Cubs' position. Anyways, if the Phils win 2/3 against the Nats, they will almost definitely get in. If they don't, they can blame themselves for tanking it against the Braves. I know you can't expect them to win every game, but you can't afford to lose 2 in a row at home when you're in a home-stretch pennant race. And I think the Phillies know that.
Posted 11:59 AM, 09/26/2008
jbarts
I couldn't believe what I was seeing last night. Rich Harden could not find the strike zone. No marquee players in clutch situations. The Mets deserved to lose and Pinella decided that he was going to give the game way. That's my opinion. It was infuriating.
Posted 11:58 AM, 09/26/2008
Chaz_Smash
Come on, Rich. The Cubs beat the Mets twice and took last night's game to the ninth inning. Pinella would have been an idiot to throw one of his main guys out there in a driving rainstorm. The Phils and Brewers are in a mess of their own making.
Posted 11:40 AM, 09/26/2008
robinlupe
Where does integrity lie on this matter? ...a game in April is not the equivalent of one in September? Perhaps if baseball had a commissioner the "Integrity" of the game would be upheld, the Cubs deserve a at least a fierce tongue-lashing in the public arena. Ideally be the head of the sport.
Posted 11:23 AM, 09/26/2008
timm2
i am just surprised that he didn't use any of regulars as pinch hitters. i can understand not using the pitchers, especially in the pouring rain. i just would have thought he have the other guys hit. especially in the top of 9th with game tied. if no other reason than to try to push a run across so they could go home before extra innings (he did not know they would give a run up in the bottom of the inning at the time).
Posted 11:21 AM, 09/26/2008
poniesnpoker
Letting their catcher bat and using Ward with the three big bats on deck was a disgrace. Still, they blew a three-run lead to a team whose heroes last night were Ramon Martinez and Robinson Cancel. The Mets are going nowhere. Their bullpen won't make it through the weekend. The Phillies have no excuse this weekend; the Nationals are a 100-loss team.
Posted 11:18 AM, 09/26/2008
93phils
As a Phils fan, i dont like what the Cubs did. But if they were in the same situation, I would want the Phils to rest starters. How bad is it that the Cubs sat at least 5 starters and the Mets barely won? What does that say about the Mets
Posted 10:29 AM, 09/26/2008
pattymac3
i agree the cubs should rest some of their starter but the not the whole team what i was against was he left that horrible pitcher in at the end, i saw lou laugh when the mets got their 2nd hit. he could have at least replaced that kid when he was getting rocked,, the cubs just wanted to get out of ny,, they did not want that game to go 15 innings so he just let that kid get bombed
Posted 10:11 AM, 09/26/2008
topwonk
What? Sweet Lou is resting some of his key starters and pitchers during these last few games, after his team has sown up the NL regular season crown? Oh my God!! Call the cops!!! Place sanctions on the Cubs in next year's draft! Are you kidding me? This is one of the reasons why Lou Pinella is the best manager in the NL - because he MANAGES. The Phillies don't need to worry about the Cubs and their lineup, or the Mets and their horsebleep bullpen - not until they meet one of those teams in the playoffs - which would have been much more probable had they defeated the stinkin' Braves in even one of the last two games. It's simple Rich - the Philles need to sweep the bottom feeding Nats this weekend, and that starts with a focused win tonight. Do that and then it doesn't matter if Lou plays Ernie Banks and piches Fergie Jenkins, or whether the Mets bullpen implodes, or the Brewers fire another manager. A sweep, or even 2 out of 3 and the Phils are in. p.s. I notice you didn't complain about Lou playing rookie Micah Hoffpauir, or the mention the two home runs he hit.
Posted 09:39 AM, 09/26/2008
mikeb
and enough with the 'take care of business' and 'choked away...' they won 10 of the last 13, including 7 and 3 game winning streaks. 4 of them against the team ahead of them in the wild card. if that's not taking care of business then i dont know what is. 24-12 since august 17th is pretty effin good.
Posted 09:32 AM, 09/26/2008
mikeb
shame on the cubs. not for losing to the mets when they could have won. baseball is a game of consistency. they win a close game wednesday and then bench their players. keep the winning going. no one wants to go into the playoffs cold. it's baseball, not football. what are they going to do, rest all starters for the whole weekend? good, i hope they lose and go into the playoffs on a losing streak, with guys that have no at bats in 5 days.
Posted 09:28 AM, 09/26/2008
skill
While I agree that he Phils have brought this on themselves by choking away the Braves series, there is such a thing as the "integrity of the game" as Fredi Gonzalez stated the other day. If the Phils were in the Mets spot, i would still expect Lou to throw his A or at least B team out there and make a team earn a playoff spot. Not hand it to them on a silver platter.
Posted 09:23 AM, 09/26/2008
RE
Are you kidding with this? His only concern should be his team. Why in the world would you risk any injury to your key players after you've clinched home field advantage and they're playing on a wet field. And with those players, they were one hit away from winning the game. You win close to 100 games, that is your reward. Because the Phillies can't close out the division against a bad Braves team, the Cubs need to continue to play their starters?
Posted 08:50 AM, 09/26/2008
Venkman
We didn't have a problem with Reid resting everybody after they went 13-1 in 2004. That handed the Rams a win with 4 teams fighting for the 2 wild card spots. Can't have it both ways. I was disappointed in the Cubs effort last night too, but you can't crucify him for it.
Posted 08:49 AM, 09/26/2008
Big Game
Boo-hoo, Rich. Why wouldn't the Cubs rest guys? If the Phils cliched last weekend, they would be resting guys like Utley, Hamels and Rollins also.
Posted 08:48 AM, 09/26/2008
Mdog
I can not blame sweet Lou for resting his players. Meyers terrible outing and no offense in the last two games have put them in this position. Now it is up to them to win against one of the downtrodden teams of baseball, if they can't win they do not deserve the post-season.
Posted 08:27 AM, 09/26/2008
nickpa1
gots to take care of your own bidness...what did teams do in old days when they had the division won? did dimaggio and berra start every game? just wondering
Posted 08:14 AM, 09/26/2008
EJAY
Stop watching the Mets and marlins. Just go out and win three against the lousiest team in MLB
Posted 07:41 AM, 09/26/2008
jjflaf
The Phillies need to show they know how to win with the lead. Let's not worry about other managers. They have a one game lead ( should have been able to win at least 2 against Atlanta to increase margin ) and need to WIN their way to playoffs. Time to step up!
Posted 07:33 AM, 09/26/2008
FloridaBill
If Cholly had done what Lou did we'd all be applauding and saying what a smart, prudent baseball man.
Posted 06:58 AM, 09/26/2008
carlton
I'm sure if the roles were reversed Charlie would have done the same thing. He would have rested his starters and Kendrick or Eaton would have been out there. Lets not get ridiculous. The Phillies are in this mess because they did'nt win the game(s) they needed to against the Braves.
Posted 06:38 AM, 09/26/2008
Jhunchar
Once a whinner always a whinner! Haven't you heard the expression just take care of what you can control. The Phillies and Manuel have not done that. They are lucky to have a one game lead.
Posted 06:34 AM, 09/26/2008
jdrushton
Yes, the Cubs have earned the right to rest starters and get their rotation set for the playoffs, but throughout the game's history, the unwritten rule is that you don't do anything like a wholesale playing of reserves that would influence a remaining playoff race. If the situations were reversed and Charlie Manuel was resting Utley, Howard and Rollins against a team the Cubs were fighting against to make it into the playoffs, Pinella would be the first one griping. The Phils just have to go out and take at least two of three this weekend - hopefully all three. Then they have to take the lineup and box score from last night's Cubs game and post it on the bulletin board should they meet the Cubs in the playoffs. And, if it was me, I'd be aiming the first pitch of game 1 against the Cubbies at Soriano's ribs.
Posted 06:20 AM, 09/26/2008
Yorker
While I agree that the Phillies have their own destiny in hand, it is very troubling that the Cubs will be playing the Brewers this weekend. Even if we win 2 out of 3 from the Nats, there is a serious chance that we don't get in. I don't like how this team has once again failed to take advantage of what they earned by winning 10 of 11 and then played such sloppy baseball the last two nights. Maybe it's because I'm a lifelong fan who has come to expect the worst, but I don't have a good feeling about this weekend. If they play and lose tonight the anxiety levels are going to go off the charts, primarily because the Mets hold the winning cards if there is a tie because we played so sloppily against them all year.
Posted 06:19 AM, 09/26/2008
PhillySportsFan123
You know, I completely understand why Lou Pinella would do this. Can't blame him, why wouldn't you save your best players for the important games? PSU does it all the time in football when they have a big lead. The Phillies have no one to blame but themselves for the situation they are in right now.
Posted 06:09 AM, 09/26/2008
mickeyjc
I AM REALLY DISAPPOINTED THE WAY LOU P MANAGED THAT GAME LAST NIGHT CUBS VS METS. IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE DIDNT WANT TO WIN THE GAME. THIS IS WHAT MAKES ME SICK--CHARLEY M SHOULD COME OUT AND SAY WHAT A DISGRACE THIS WAS TO BASEBALL INSTEAD OF ALL THE ANSWERS WE ALWAYS HEAR. COME ON TELL THE TRUTH HOW YOU REALLY FEEL. LET ALL CHEER AGAINST THE CUBS. MICKEY JC, MEDIA PA
Posted 05:24 AM, 09/26/2008
MrJimmy
Phillies should have been 4-5 games up at this point. They are the reason they're only one game up not Lou Pinella. You own the Braves all year - you pitch two of your top three pitchers and you lose both games...The pitching is going to make or break this team...AGAIN!!!
Posted 05:14 AM, 09/26/2008
eagles2010
how lame ur r rich, phils control their own destiny, if they cant wins 2 of 3 from the nats, they do not deserve to go to the post season!
Posted 02:20 AM, 09/26/2008
scars73
You people are all missing the point! It is sooooooooooo annoying! if any of you followed the game, you would see Rich's point. We all understand that Lou has every right to rest most, if not all of his players. Any manager would do that. But once your triple A team has a 3 run lead going into the 8th, can you not use one of your regulars as a pinch hitter with two men on and no out? Is it really going to tire out Soriano, or Derrek Lee, or Aramis Ramirez, or Mark DeRosa, to come up for one ab? Do you know who batted there? Koyie Hill who was batting .111, and he used Daryle Ward(around .216) as a pinch hitter for the pitcher. I forget the other guy. As far as pitcing, could Marmol not have come in to pitch one ining(or even one batter), instead of using his 3 highest ERA guys in the pen. Marmol has not pitched in about 4 days. Is he actually gonna let him go without pitching in 10 days? But the worst part of the whole thing, Pinella was interviewed, and he said he would play his regulars, because of the integrity of the game!!!! Get off of Rich's back, and know what you are talking about!
Posted 01:59 AM, 09/26/2008
DanMaas
If I'm not mistaken, Lee's replacement at 1B had 5 RBIs...Pinella is a good manager and it is outrageous that Rich Hofmann would suggest that he "handed one" to the Mets...I'm sorry I read this article
Posted 01:44 AM, 09/26/2008
GiggsOho
Jesus, Rich, you want some cheese with that wine? Give me a break. Lou Pinella, or any other manager for that matter, doesn't care about anyone but their own team. You are a smart enough to know this. "Mocked the notion of integrity of pennant races?" Is this a pennant race or an election? I don't hear anyone from Broad and Pattison whining, why should you?
Posted 01:37 AM, 09/26/2008
duffers
Some of you are such pansies. Do any of you realize that the guy Pinella played instead of Derrick Lee had 5 rbis????? If the Phillies miss the playoffs, they have nobody to blame but themselves
Posted 01:00 AM, 09/26/2008
archie
Piniella showed absolutely no class in resting virtually all of his offensive stars in the same game and then not even using ANY of them to pinch hit in crucial 9th inning situations. I will be spending post season rooting for ANYBODY who plays the Cubs. Bring back Bartman.
Posted 12:33 AM, 09/26/2008
Joe Gonnelli
Marlins will not behave like Pinella's Cubs
Posted 12:32 AM, 09/26/2008
TheReck82
yeah the Phillies blew two games but statistically they were due for a loss after winning 8-9 in a row anyway. The baseball gods will do that to you. Pinella was almost smart. let the Mets win it by putting in crummy players. He almost fooled everyone. maybe HE'S also under the ESPNYBOS payroll? Arent the CUBS as big a losers as the Phillies in the post season? Phillies have Mitch/Joe Carter. but the Cubs have Bartman. and yet, ESPNYBOS would rather promote the hapless cubs than the Phillies. WHY? I hope the Phillies play and beat the Moises Alou out of the cubs. dirtbags.
Posted 12:23 AM, 09/26/2008
Hazy
From above: "I'm thinking sweet Lou wants no part of the Phillies in the first round so he's going to help a beatable team like the Mets out" If this were the real case, then he would have used his starters. The only way the Phillies play the Cubbies in the NLDS is if they are the Wild Card.
Posted 12:16 AM, 09/26/2008
duffers
This is such a lame post Rich. So its Lou Pinella's job to risk one of his beest players so the Phillies have an easier path to the playoffs? Why would you evenm post this unless you are scared the Phillies might choke against the Nats? After all, the Phils have been putting non-playoff teams like Atlanta away lately, havent they?
Posted 12:09 AM, 09/26/2008
pseudofake
Lost in all this is the fact that the "iowa" cubs were smoking the mets most of the game. The cubs just see the mets as their likely match up next week and don't want to show them marmol and wood.
Posted 12:00 AM, 09/26/2008
walworth
Hey, we never got any thanks for helping other teams for years by losing.
Posted 11:58 PM, 09/25/2008
referees
the braves wanted to take the phils down. the phillies beat the braves about 14 times this year. if lou wants no parts of the phils, he'd beat the mets or else the mets will win the east, the phillies will take the wild card and play the cubbies in nlds.
Posted 11:55 PM, 09/25/2008
jason14
Imagine if the Phillies had clinched early and Charlie went ahead and used his best relievers, who are already desperate for rest, and Hamels, whose potential, necessary start on Sunday is already being bellyached about. Or, god forbid, Utley or Rollins get hurt in a meaningless game (not to mention Utley could probably use a few days off)? Lou's only job is to do what's best for his club, and since the rules basically allow you to put anyone on your playoff roster, all the more reason for him to want to see his other guys in action. I kind of loved the way he made Samardzja work last night - the kid gave up the tying run and could have easily given up another, which would have meant another Mets win. But for Lou, it was like a spring training game with playoff pressure, to be able to put a rookie in that kind of situation. I also saw a Cubs team that was playing hard, even if it wasn't the best line-up. And Kerry wood pitched in an extra inning game last night.
Posted 11:52 PM, 09/25/2008
walworth
Sorry Phillies, we Cub fans have suffered too long and this team, this year, is our best shot. The Cubs earned the luxury of being able to rest some players. Win your own games and you wouldn't have to worry about what the Cubs do.
Posted 11:47 PM, 09/25/2008
kgochenour
Agreed that we need to win the games on our own, but c'mon Lou, man up!!
Posted 11:44 PM, 09/25/2008
shoeshineboy
Phils need to take care of their own business, which they did NOT do this week vs Atl
Posted 11:41 PM, 09/25/2008
HO HUM
Win your way in!
Posted 11:36 PM, 09/25/2008
BoricuaPhilsFan
I don't like what he did but the Cubs are entitled to do that. If we had taken care of the Braves and if we take care of the Nats, it would be or will be moot. Sweet Lou may take it easy on the Brew Crew this weekend, too. So this presumptive coverage of the Phils making the playoffs is premature. We face two lefty starters and have struggled offensively again. We have a great chance of course but we gotta play until we clinch. The media and we the fans should not make assumptions the way Mets fans and players did in 2007.
Posted 11:32 PM, 09/25/2008
mish798798
No, Rich. The Phillies lead over the Mets is one game with 3 to play because the Phils lost 2 of 3 to the Braves. As a fan, I don't want the Phillies or their fans to expect other teams to pick up the slack for them when they can't take care of their own business. If the Phils don't win the division or miss the playoffs altogether, they have no one to blame but themselves. Go play the blame game somewhere else, like in politics or something.
Comment removed.
Posted 11:31 PM, 09/25/2008
GOphils321
marlins are a good team, so hopefully they don't act like the cubs. 2/3 for the phils will win this
Posted 11:30 PM, 09/25/2008
natedog
Because of two losses to the Braves the Phillies lead is 1 game.
Comment removed.
About Rich Hofmann
Rich Hofmann arrived at the Daily News in 1980 for a job whose status was officially designated as "full-time, temporary." A senior at Penn at the time, he was hired to fill in on the copy desk during a staff illness. The notion of him covering the Eagles or being a columnist did not exist in anyone's imagination. It was supposed to be six weeks and out, but he never left. It is only one of the reasons why so many people have concerns about him as a potential house guest. Rich has blogged the postseasons of the Flyers and Eagles.

You can now follow The Idle Rich on Twitter.
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