Well, we can all pretty much agree that pitching Brad Lidge on four consecutive days is officially a bad idea. It is safe to assume that, after Tuesday night's conflagration in Pittsburgh, that Phils manager Charlie Manuel won't be running Lidge out there back to back to back to back anymore.

But, well, what is the proper way to use a closer who was perfect last year, who is signed for two more years of big money after this one, but who has now blown nine saves this year?

I think there are enough numbers that suggest a pretty clear course of action, and it is this: the Phils should not pitch Lidge on back to back days anymore (no less back to back to back to back). That's it. They need two closers if they are going to win another World Series.

Now for the numbers. You can argue with my assumptions, but here goes. First, I'm limiting myself to the games since Lidge returned from the disabled list in late June. To me, that just makes sense. It's a decent-sized sample and it has the benefit of being the most recent experience. Second, I'm removing the four games when Lidge was brought in with the Phillies trailing. He was terrible in three of those four games (two with rest, one without rest). This suggests it isn't a rest issue but a closer-lacking-adrenalin issue, which is common and which will not happen in the post-season.

Best as I can cipher, that leaves us with 21 appearances where Lidge entered a game either tied or with a lead, 12 with at least one day of rest and nine with no days of rest.

With rest: 2.38 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, and 75 percent of the appearances without allowing an earned run.

Without rest: 9.95 ERA, 1.90 WHIP, and 56 percent of the appearances without allowing an earned run.

That seems plain enough. I think the evidence is there. They need another guy -- not to take over the job but to augment what Lidge can still give them. Or they need a committee of guys to work on the days when Lidge cannot. Over at High Cheese, Dave Murphy has a post where he runs you through potential members of the committee.

But they need to start recognizing the framework around which they can build their ninth innings.  The goal for September should be to pitch Lidge only when rested and see if the numbers hold up. If they do, you have continued to express a reasonable level of confidence in your struggling closer and you have created your framework. If they don't, you have spent the month getting somebody else ready -- and my money would be on Mr. Escalade, Brett Myers.

Poll: Who should be the Phillies' closer? (7552 votes)

Because prodigal football celebrities, like plane crashes and movie-actor deaths, come in threes, and seeing as how Brett Favre -- according to an ESPN report, and pending a physical -- has now joined Michael Vick among the NFL's newly employed, there is only one possible third candidate: John Madden.

I mean, we all know he only retired in the first place because he really believed Favre was done this time. Silly John.

Because you can bet on anything these days, even outside of the state of Delaware, the following odds on different Michael Vick propositions arrive courtesy of bodog.com.

How many games will Michael Vick be suspended for?

Over 4 Games                           Even

Under 4 Games                         2/1

Exactly 4 Games                       2/1

Will Michael Vick start a game at QB this season?

Yes                                          2/1

No                                            1/3

Will Michael Vick be a Philadelphia Eagle for week 1 of the 2010 NFL season?

Yes                                          1/2

No                                            9/5

What will Michael Vick have more of in the 2009 NFL season?

Passing                                    6/5

Rushing                                    2/3

How many passing yards will Michael Vick have for the 2009 NFL season?

Over/Under                                160

How many rushing yards will Michael Vick have for the 2009 NFL season?

Over/Under                                200

What position will Michael Vick be lined up in the first time he enters a game?

Quarterback                              3/2

Running Back                            3/5

Wide Receiver                           9/1

What will Michael Vick record first?

Passing Touchdown                   3/2

Rushing Touchdown                   3/5

Receiving Touchdown                 4/1

Michael Vick's first pass attempt will be?

Complete                                 2/3

Incomplete or Interception           6/5

Will Donovan McNabb catch a pass this season?

Yes                                          8/1

No                                            1/16

It was just a coincidence, Giants coach Tom Coughlin said, that he had his defense practicing against the Wildcat offense on the morning after the Eagles signed Michael Vick.

"It was," Coughlin said. "It really was. These schedules are made well in advance."

He wasn't lying -- the practice schedule was probably drawn up in the spring sometime. But the conversation will continue on two levels here, and it will continue for months that way. On the one hand, Vick did jail time for his involvement in a dog-fighting scheme that including drowning and electrocuting the animals. On the other hand, the guy is a football player and he will create some issues for opposing defenses once he is on the field.

"I have no idea what their plans are," Coughlin said. "We play Philadelphia relatively middle and late, so hopefully we’ll have a chance to see what their plan is by then and be prepared for it. But I think it’s something that because it was introduced to the league and because so many people got involved in it, we had planned to work against it as best we could in training camp. Even if it’s just to show everybody what basically the offense is, what the combinations of plays are."

Meanwhile, general manager Jerry Reese was asked if this made the Eagles better.

"Oh, I don’t know that," Reese said "…Who knows? I’m happy that he’s got a second chance to move on in his life and again, I wish him the best except when he plays us.

Two tracks, two separate conversations. Months to go.

Once they acquired Pedro Martinez, the Phillies owed it to themselves to find out. Once that was established, they owed it to the team to adjust the starting rotation in the manner that best allowed the team to win -- which meant that Jamie Moyer was the odd man out. Most everybody seems to agree with that.

But it's funny. The expectations on Martinez seem so low that 3 earned runs in 5 innings is seen by most people as swell, even though 3 earned runs in 5 innings is just what Moyer was giving them, and just what saddled him with the worst ERA among qualified starting pitchers in the National League.

Pedro's ERA: 5.40.

Jamie's ERA: 5.47.

All of which means that Pedro has to be better or this makes no sense.

We should know in about 2 weeks, about two or three more starts. Because there were things to like about Martinez, particularly the fastball that had more life than expected. If he can sustain that, the Phillies might have something here -- and that is the biggest question. Martinez struggled a lot with his command on Wednesday night against the Cubs, but you have to think that has a decent chance of straightening itself out with more work.

The problem isn't the 3 earned runs -- it's the 5 innings. They need to get Martinez to a point where he can give them 6 innings consistently, 6 innings or more. The pattern in his brief Phillies career, in the minors and the majors, has been established. First time: four good innings, tired in the fifth and allows some runs. Next time: five good innings, tired in the sixth and allows some runs. Wednesday: four good innings, tired in the fifth and allows some runs.

The pattern needs to be broken, obviously. The good thing is that Martinez says he feels completely healthy -- and, again, that the fastball is starting in a good place. But if he cannot break the pattern, if he cannot get them through 6 innings in good order, there will need to be a decision made. Because it does need to be better than Wednesday night.

Jamie Moyer spoke his mind on Tuesday.

This is good.

Moyer said he was "disheartened" by the decision to yank him out of the Phillies' starting rotation. He said he had been "misled" during off-season contract negotiations with the club, when this kind of scenario was raised and he was assured he would not be banished to the bullpen. Moyer also said he would not be a distraction.

There are people who see all of this as inconsistent. I don't, not even a little bit.

I continue to be amazed by media people who ask questions for a living who are horrified when the answers are truthful. It's absurd. I ask people things and I want to know what they really think. I don't want robots. I don't want coach-speak. We have all spent such a large portion of our lives listening to athletes say nothing that, when somebody actually does say something, there are people who recoil.

Of course he's disheartened -- and there is nothing wrong with saying it.

If he feels he was misled, there is nothing wrong with saying that either. Because there are promises and there are promises and everybody knows it. The Phillies promised Chan Ho Park an honest competition in spring training for a spot in the rotation and they gave him the job because he won it. That's honorable. This is a little different because of Moyer's elevated earned-run average. At 5.47, it's about as bad as a starter can possibly have and remain a starter. And know this: at a certain point, everyone would agree -- hell, Moyer would agree -- that an exorbitant ERA would cancel any off-season conversation. So we are just talking about the definition of exorbitant.

One final thing: he will not be a distraction. Because making a single newspaper headline is not the same thing as dividing a clubhouse. Moyer won't do that -- he just won't. It isn't in his DNA and, frankly, it isn't within his power. Because while the man is universally respected, the numbers are the numbers, and 5.47 is 5.47, and everybody in the Phillies' clubhouse can see that.