Two holdups on Flyers offer to Stamkos
For nearly an entire business day, all has been quiet on the Flyers’ watch for restricted free agent forward Steven Stamkos.
Two holdups on Flyers offer to Stamkos
For nearly an entire business day, all has been quiet on the Flyers’ watch for restricted free agent forward Steven Stamkos.
For the first time in two days, Lightning general manager Steve Yzerman picked up negotiations with Stamkos’ agents - Don Meehan and Mark Guy of the Newport Sports Group - to try and work out a deal.
While that has been going on, the Flyers have been quietly plugging together numbers and considering mulling over whether or not to send an offer sheet for the restricted free agent.
Here is the latest:
-As of 4:45pm on Wednesday, no offer has been sent to Stamkos’ camp - from the Flyers or any other team.
-A proposed number, even higher than the one floated in our story in Wednesday’s paper, that was relayed to the Daily News is 12 years, $115 million. If sent, that would give Stamkos a $9.58 salary cap hit. A no-movement clause would also be initiated after Stamkos finishes his 7th season in the NHL. He has already played 3.
Now, the Flyers have not sent their offer sheet for two reasons:
1) The Lightning have the ability to sit on the offer for 7 days once Stamkos decides to accept an offer sheet. Since the sheet cannot be accepted by Stamkos until July 1 even if it is signed, the Lightning could make the Flyers wait until July 8.
The Flyers are concerned that they may not be able to fill out their roster with other unrestricted free agents if they choose to wait that long.
As it stands now, the Flyers have 19 players under contract. Take out Ian Laperriere and Michael Leighton and you’re down to 17, with at least 3 forwards needing to be signed. They could easily be Ville Leino, Jakub Voracek and Wayne Simmonds.
However, sources say the Flyers do also have interest in Michael Ryder, John Madden and Erik Cole, to name a few. There is no guarantee, however, that any one of those players would sign with the Flyers. That’s the tough part.
Madden, 38, would reportedly like to either stay in Minnesota or retire without having to uproot his family again.
So, do the Flyers take a stab at Stamkos with the possibility that they fail? Or do they count on signing one or two of those other players at a much discounted rate and leave a little salary cap space to spare?
It’s a tough call - and one that the Flyers have been debating all day.
In reality, though, the Flyers could make do if they took a stab at Stamkos and failed. They would re-sign Voracek and Simmonds, go after another lingering, small-time free agent, and fill out their roster with Phantoms players that have progressed nicely like Ben Holmstrom, Eric Wellwood and maybe even Matt Read.
If the Flyers did land Stamkos, they could address their cap troubles by either trading Sergei Bobrovsky and one of their defenseman, or even stash a player like Scott Hartnell off the cap in Adirondack until his contract expires. The options are endless to get under if they get him.
2) Another reason the Flyers have held up on sending an offer sheet is that they are targeting to Stamkos for one reason only: to sign him.
While throwing out a ridiculous offer sheet to Stamkos would, in turn, force a conference rival to pay more than they had budgeted or intended to keep, the Flyers would likely save themselves the effort - and the stress - of not taking a shot if they know there is no way to get a deal done.
That means the Flyers have spent the last 24-48 hours trying to come up with a “poison pill” or offer that the Lightning could not afford to match, likely by severely front-loading a long-term, expensive deal.
Yzerman has even told Flyers officials that he has been given the green light from owner Jeffrey Vinik to match any offer that comes down the pike.
Whether that’s true or Yzerman is bluffing to avoid a substantial offer is the reason the Flyers have been playing a day-long game of chicken, no different than the game Stamkos’ agents have been playing with Yzerman from the beginning.
From Stamkos’ agents’ perspective, the Newport Sports Group would likely love to see an offer - to either use as a bargaining chip and keep their client in Tampa Bay at the price they want, or assure that he will get it elsewhere.
BIG VILLE STYLE: Paul Holmgren said on Tuesday that he had not had any communication with either Ville Leino or his agent, Bill Zito, since Friday.
Sources say that hasn’t changed on Wednesday.
Leino, back in his native Finland, has been unreachable on both his American cell phone and cell phone in Finland.
The Flyers have likely waited to figure out their position with Stamkos before moving on to decide what to do with Leino.
Judging by the deals that have been signed through the early part of the free agency period so far - namely Tomas Kopecky (4 years, $12 million) and Brooks Laich (6 years, $27 million) - it looks like Leino’s price has gone up daily. It may ultimately be in his best interest to wait until July 1 to hear offers from other teams - and maybe to spite the Flyers after not making him a priority, whether it was in February before Kris Versteeg was acquired or last week after Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were dealt.
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No offers? I smell collusion...— kjuggs77- Can the Flyers contact Tampa Bay and say we won't make an offer if Tampa agrees to a trade for x,y,z after he is signed? (Of course another team can make an offer) — RussOCNJ
- You're the man, Frank. Carchidi is a complete waste. Sorry, just had to get that out there. Anyway, I don't subscribe to the notion that the Flyers are concerned about being held up to deal with other free agents for 7 days. The free agent crop is WEAK. Michael Ryder disappears about as often as Versteeg. So we are covered in the ghost department already. Madden won't come here, either. I could see Cole wanting to sign here, in which case he'll just have to wait. If he doesn't, then Gagne isn't a bad alternative -- no one will be banging down his door. Also, there's nothing wrong with just waiting and making a trade at the deadline. Give those minutes to Wellwood et al in the short-term...— UncleEddie
- what about chris drury, who was bought out by the rangers today? coming off an injury year, maybe we could get him at a bargain price?— zwarte piet
- what about chris drury, who was bought out by the rangers today? coming off an injury year, maybe we could get him at a bargain price?— zwarte piet
- This piece makes sense. While it'd be kind of awesome to have Stammer in O&B for nearly ever - Cole, Ryder on wing, or Belanger at 3C or 4C would be a great pickup too. Not sure if Schenn is ready to do the 3rd-line, defensive C thing against guys like Ovie, Crosby, etc. That's quite a lot to ask a guy with 8 or 9 games of NHL experience.— GA_Expat
- I was thinking the same thing Frank..Flyers take a big risk by losing out on top FA's should Lighting match offer. Pretty gamble, of course would pay off should they get him.— shanehockey28
- This is a nice case of seeing if 1 is greater than 3, 4 or 5. Either way, Flyers should be primed next year to make a nice run at the Cup.— ESFjellin
- Madden is still playing???
My goodness I would not sign a 38 year-old...— Philly Fan in Kuwait - This right here was the one thing that really made me smile... "stash a player like Scott Hartnell off the cap in Adirondack until his contract expires".
Let's just do that no matter what happens with Stamkos.— furiousball - Good article Frank. It's nice to get all the angles/issues/implications on what is a obviously a huge game of "who blinks first". Keep up the stellar work....and thank you. Bone— dri_as_a_bone
- Drury has a bad knee forget him. Homer...Please send the offer!! Swing for the fences like the Phillies did with Lee, and as Frank pointed out you can always use some of the young Phantoms and sign Gags for some veteran presence among the forwards. Send Hartnell and Versteeg to the minors and hide their cap number. As mentioned it is a weak free agent period and Stamkos would be golden.— Bleedsgreen
- I just can't stomach losing 4 - #1 draft choices AND a hundredbazillion dollars over 20 years.....what franchise can absorb that kind of hit? It makes no organizational sense whatsoever and doesn't guarantee even a sniff at a Cup, nevermind the multiple Cups it would take for this city and this franchise to justify that kind of expenditure on one player. What would it do to the lockeroom? Most MLB teams didn't want Arod and his contract because of these very same concerns.— Mark1npt
Comment removed.- Doesn't matter...just send the offer. If they don't get him, doesn't matter who they get because they won't have enough scoring to win anyway. They will need more than those second tier FA's mentioned, or those Phantom players mentioned. Those type players won't get it sone next year. Long term, maybe. Next 2 years, no way.— scootch
- Put in the max offer sheet. End of story.— dingo8baby
- Smells like Chris Gratton. At least we got those picks back.— dragoon6
- What a mess. Make a decision Paul, is Schenn your #3? If not, forget Stamkos and nab Arnott at $4.5 mil as your experienced #3 center. We know he can play against Overchkin, Crosby and Malkin. Add Wallin to bolster the D. Maybe O'Donell. Decide if you want Leino or not and if Versteeg is trade bait. Phantoms reinforcements? Don't kid yourself...none of those guys are NHL ready, as Nodl & Powe were the shining stars of that crop and that's not saying much. SKIP Cole and Ryder. Madden could replace Betts, but that's about it at his age; he was a good pickup for CHI, but he is done. Brad Richards will be a disappointing repeat of Drury/Gomez in NYC.— MichaelZoe
- I mean honestly, the Flyers behavior has everyone who knows hockey scratching their heads. The Carters and Richards trades were Holmer admitting they failed; he failed to pick great players, failed to win and failed to manage the draft/cap. Now they'd seriously consider ruining the careers of Versteeg and Hartnell by stashing them in the AHL? It rarely works out well. WTF? That is a gutless moved preceded by poor cap management. The Phantoms are a joke and we have THREE draft picks on our roster. No defensemen or goalies that we drafted right now in the NHL (Bob was an undrafted signing) and only 3 out of the top 12 forwards right now. Devils, Penns, CHI and Red Wings. Ugh. Help me.— MichaelZoe
The Flyers have had more than a sniff a the Cup...they've been to the Finals many times. NOTHING matches even a single championship, especially for those of us under 40 years old. I don't need multiple championships to be perfectly honest...one will do just as well multiple, perhaps mean even more. If Stamkos helps us get even one, it will be the best spent money in the last 40 years.— kjuggs77- Comment removed.
- Enough big moves, this is crazy. Sign a Veteran FA scorer like Cole or Gagne or concentrate on Leino. We need to stablize our offense right now, not trade everyone to sign one guy.— flyler
- If they don't take a shot for Stamkos, the Richards trade makes no sense. The Carter trade was necessary to clear some cap room and the Flyers got back a solid wing, plus a high draft pick. In exchange for the Richards, the Flyers got a young player whose ceiling is to be almost as good as Richards, plus a winger who scored all of 14 goals last year and a late 2nd round pick. Not sure how that move is supposed to end a 35 year Cup drought.— Young Baller
- Ed Snider told Holmgren to go all in and he is executing. Get ready for more action!!!!!— shawnmac
- Why isn't Brad Richards in the mix? Stamkos would be awesome, but Richards would also be a great fit here.— echosmyron
- I agree with Young Baller Why trade Richards if you don't do this or go for B.Richards. Cole and Handzus aren't cutting it. I would rather go after another great Dman then waste money on Cole and handzus— debbyt
- Playing the cup 1/2 full. If we got Stamkos and gave up 4 #1s, think about this:
Stamkos, Giroux, JVR, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, Couterur would all be under 23....not a bad nucleus to sacrifice 4 LATE 1st round picks. I think it's a pipedream financially, but if it happened, that's the silver lining.— bsgratch 
The compensation for signing Stamkos is four (4) first round picks. No way. And then tie up your cap; not a good move. JVR and Giroux are stars in the making. Don't get me wrong, 96 goals is a ton of scoring from Stamkos but what if you were to correctly evaluate and draft four kids with those picks that might have that potential. And doing an offer sheet just to inflate a guy and pinch Tampa is bad Ju-Ju. Sign the guy's we took in trade. Make Leino a priority and keep the cap space in case you need a defenseman with a big contract at the trade deadline. Prongs, Timmonen and O'donnell are older and anything can happen.- its a lot of smokescreen,....Drew Doughty is the real prize,.....and Gaggs too— SyddBarrett
- I have a bad feeling we'll lose out on both Stamkos and Leino.— dave1walsh
Leino Must Go— Kevinmac- Comment removed.
- Rather have the two recent additions and Ville Leino. Stamkos is just going to cost too much. And while I think he is one of the best out there, I still think Ville Leino has more to show us even after his last two seasons.— GHK
- Comment removed.
- Cant sign Stamkos. Id add Brad Richards if it was possible— Flyers_70
- Leino is a goner, sorry people. If he is going to get $4m per than I'll help him with his bags. This FA crop is a joke and the Flyers would be better off sitting it out then signing bums like Ryder, Arnott, Richards, etc to hugely overpriced deals. BTW, M. Richards is a better player and a helluva lot cheaper than B. Richards, so why in the world would Holmgren target him? I'm on board with the changes so far, but target B. Richards and I'm off the Holmgren bandwagon, it just doesn't make a lick of sense.— sla6yer
- I don't follow the Flyers off season too much...Is Simon Gagne really available? reasonably? Why? is he injured or hasn't played up to expectations?— ericyshel
- I understand that Stamkos is a bit pricy but come on people can you imagine this team for the next decade. Yeah we'd lose the first round picks but I just think that if we added this dude, the cup would be ours.— flyfightinbullies
- Of course Yzerman is bluffing. What is he supposed to say? If another team sends an offer no we wont be able to match it. No of course hes going to say to other teams dont waste your time wwe will match any offer but its not possible and he knows if another team like the flyers send an offer he wont be able to match it.— Joey0210
- If the Flyers aren't negotiating with Leino, that doesn't really mean much. They would still have to find cap room for Stamkos. that would mean finding trade partners that could fit those contracts Homer wants to move, under their cap & and hold Homer's feet to fire in any deal, knowing the Flyers have to shed salary. Not a great position for Homer to be in, but like most Flyer fans I'm still in shock after these past two weeks and who knows right?— sox12st
