A hero speaks
All of us should listen
A hero speaks
There’s been a lot of talk about ‘coming together’ in the wake of a very divisive election.
That’s disingenuous talk, especially from the mouths of those who voted for a man who used the politics of divide and conquer to win re-election.
But don’t listen to me. Listen to a hero, a man who spent seven years in a Prisoner of War camp in Vietnam. This is someone who knows what it means to long for freedom, and who has some specific ideas about peace as well.
Read what he has to say, and then see if you can stomach the Kumbaya chorus from the winning team.
Comments (69)
Which lie do you boys want to believe. The lie from column A or the lie from column B. Hard to tell which lie is the truth.
But you always know when Obama is lying- whenever his lips are moving.
Happy TG, boys. A turkey on your plate. A turkey in the White House.— PlumberJoe
O look, Senator McGrumpy has taken time out from yelling at the kids to get off his lawn to announce that he was wrong, now that the DNI has said it was the intelligence community that changed the unclassified talking points and not the administration. I guess the scandal will now be that they didn't tell him quickly enough that it was the intelligence people who scrubbed the references to Al Qaeda.— Ed G- Did he spit out that golf ball he keeps in his cheek yet? — carl and sons
- sons, if you want to poke fun at the way people look, we can easily have a go at Obama. You must be all ears at that thought. — PlumberJoe
- Sope, the 4 dead non-story has killed off Rice for SOS.
Keep in mind sope, Watergate was just a second rate burglary.
Happy TG, sope. And do keep your intellectual style comments flowing. They are enthralling.— PlumberJoe - Only true idiots with no other material keep yammering about this four-dead non-story. What a crock of BS. So ridiculous--especially as compared to George W. Bush's lies that caused FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND to die and made the world unsafe in perpetuity. If there weren't terrorists all over the middle East before Dubya launched those two illegal, unfunded wars, there sure as heck are now! Why don't you address that, Miss Flowers? Oh, that's right. You are delusional and blind and deaf and watch waaayyyyy too much Faux.— sophistry
- sons, you can shuck and jive all day long, but you cannot change history.
al Qaeda is not on the run.
the video was a lie.
Obama lied about the video
Obama failed to protect embassy personnel
Obama failed to respond to the call for help
Obama is an amateur.
and you, sons, cannot change any of that.— PlumberJoe - Yeah, maybe Al Queda will blow up a shopping mall like where your grandson or someone is. Then you can dance and sing and tell us how right you were.— carl and sons
- That could happen, carl, and you are sick. — Falls Ed
- Yeah it could. And people like you, prodded by Fox, would be dancing in the streets in joy and celebration that you had another reason to hate on Obama. That seems to be the only purpose in your lives.
And you call me sick.— carl and sons - carl, visit YouTube much? — Falls Ed
- Don't forget. What??? You did forget.
I'll remind you.
al Qaeda is on the run.
— PlumberJoe - What's really repugnant is the grave dancing of some of these pubbies. So excited and thrilled are they that they think they have an issue to use against the non-white gentleman in the white house, that the deaths of the ambassador and the others have become at best nothing more than a political football, and at worst a cause of celebration for them. Obama lied- 4 died... hooray!
They just keep digging their own graves.
— carl and sons - Poor, misguided Republicans. So upset that their "landslide" did not happen that they are desperately spinning trying to gain any advantage and just looking like impotent, old men.
Per CNN:
"Former CIA Director Petraeus told lawmakers last Friday there were multiple streams of intelligence, some that indicated Ansar al Sharia was behind the attack, according to an official with knowledge of the situation. But other intelligence indicated the violence at the Benghazi mission was inspired by protests in Egypt over the anti Muslim video.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-California, told CNN on Monday that Petraeus explained why the talking points were changed.
"Gen. Petraeus made it clear that that change was made to protect classified sources of information, not to spin it, not to politicize it and it wasn't done at the direction of the white house. That really ought to be the end of it, but it isn't. So we have to continue to go around this merry go round, but at a certain point when all the facts point in a certain direction, we're going to have to accept them as they are and move on," Schiff said."— Ed G - Nice try, goobers. Obama lied. Four died. CIC= child in charge.
Oh, yeah, al Qaeda is on the run.— PlumberJoe - For a look at who the actual "dividers" are, read the New York Times article on Republicans' reactions to Gov. Christie actually doing his job and working with President Obama to help the citizens of his state. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/us/politics/after-embrace-of-obama-chris-christie-woos-a-wary-gop.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0— Ed G
- It's this nasty, self absorbed cluelessness that should make every democrat feel real good about the future. These republicans are behaving like a bunch of entitled little high school girls- the Ugly Little Liars, maybe. They are apparently incapable of learning anything. — carl and sons
- Loser's lament. They will try to make an issue of this like Clinton's impeachment. It will not fly. Why not have hearings on whether Obama was born in Hawaii or whether he is a muslim. That has the same relevance and materiality.— Ogey Oglethorpe
- Wait, so McCain is a "hero" why, exactly? The man crashed four planes! If you do that once, you are dead (DEAD!) in the Navy, but McCain got away with his shenanigans b/c of daddy. All McCain does now is rant and rave about other wars we ought to start. Can you say doddering, scary, demented old fool? Thank the good Lord he lost big. Anyone who listens to his yammering and tantrums has no credibility or sense.— sophistry
- Who lets Flowers get away with these hateful lies? Oh, the abject hypocrisy and pure inanity (and subterfuge!) of crying "Obama is a divider!" when Flowers' own party of Idiots made its sole mission for the past four years to get Obama out of office. The GOP did NOTHING for the people. Nothing. Not one thing. All they do is rage and hate and spin lies. I am sick of them. I am sick of Flowers. I am sick of Flowers' platform. It serves no purpose, does no good. All Flowers does is divide! Note the total hypocrisy yet again. Thanks, Hypochrissy!— sophistry
- Gendres, you are full of soup, actually Russian Borsht. Remember Pravda. They seem to have a bureau in the White House.
Don't worry about the truth. A select committee will find the truth, as soon as we find a select committee.
And lport, a gypsy with a dirty, hazy crystal ball can see more truth than the White House propaganda team.
Everyone knew Rice was lying, even Rice. She is no better or smarter than a talking teleprompter.
So, if you and Genres think otherwise, you only fool yourselves. Not surprising.— PlumberJoe - "Everyone knew Rice was lying, even Rice. She is no better or smarter than a talking teleprompter. So, if you and Genres think otherwise, you only fool yourselves." This, from the birther moron who predicted a Romney landslide/tsunami ... keep clinging to your hope of an Obama impeachment, and a Biden Admin. Nothing is going to change the GOP enough for them to be a viable national party anytime soon. Not with the likes of you in its base. So get used to losing, loser. (And please make Rubio your party's first revolving weekly frontrunner)
— ChrisElliottWasRight - And Gendres, dear, if you are so psychic as to know what was said at a closed door meeting, accurately and correctly, then the Eagles need you to help their defense play calling.
Better yet, let's go to the race track.
Have a turkey, but don't be one.— PlumberJoe - PJ, I am only going by what Mr. Petraeus said at the Intelligence Committee meeting. He was the one who explained the ruse and how Susan Rice was part of the plan. Whatever alQaeda did or did not know is strictly conjecture.
Eventually the whole story came out in due time. If anyone is at fault for allowing the consulate to remain occupied with such a threat in place, it was Petraeus who was the head of the CIA.
That is why the possible distraction of his extramarital affair is germane to the issue.
Petraeus took himeself odd duty. A further investigation should clear up how his conduct influenced his decision making.
I am signing off now.
I truly hope all posters have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
8-)
PS if anyone needs a turkey, look no further than Lincoln Financial Field. There is a whole flock of them hanging around there.— Gendres - There's no question that Senator Mc Cain is a hero. That being said, it's time to acknowledge his deficiencies in commenting on foreign affairs. He has never met a war he doesn't like. He has been wrong on every position he has taken on foreign affairs. E.g., he sat in a tent with Khadafy and said America should support him with aid. He swallowed the Iraq lies without independent thought, and if he had won the election we wouild still be at war with Iran. His ravings about Benghazi are not founded on facts, as he had a press conference to toot his own horn instead of attending a briefing for Congressional leaders. On domestic issues, he went from a sane position on immigration to the Arizona insanity to appease the "tea party". He has become a vindictive, angry, old man who, as I have said before, should take General McArthur's advice, and just fade away.— lport
- In keeping with the general maturity of their philosophy, the tea party version of an argument seems to consist of "I'm rubber, you're glue..." or "I know you are but what am I?"— carl and sons
- It is rather humorous seeing Ms. Flowers lecture people on "divide and conquer." Before going off pointing out that speck in someone else's eye I would suggest you tend to the telephone pole in your own.— Ed G
- I guess that just means you are going to have to find someone else to argue with or sit there and fume.— carl and sons
- sons, as you have many times before, you duck the rejoinder when it is beyond your ability.
I do not fume over you. "Laugh" would be the appropriate word.— PlumberJoe - and sons, you are a fraud.
You cannot handle a challenge and hide behind your weasel words.
You have learned well from Obama. When you cannot answer the question, be sure to change the subject.
— PlumberJoe - BTW, sons, you err on McCain's history.
You need to brush up before you stumble on. He was a true hero back in Nam.
And his family life is no more a part of this issue, than Clinton's dalliances or his current home life, or JFK's or FDR's, as pertained to their politics and pleas.— PlumberJoe - Excuse me for not accepting your authority to frame the debate.
The intro to the link tells me that I should listen to McCain on this issue because he was a POW for 7 years. So yes, it is about McCain to a great extent. McCain, thanks to his own actions, is at this point just another partisan politician whose words carry no more truth or honor than the rest of them.
Similarly Fox News and Pravda are two sides of the same coin aren't they? Party organs, (lower intestines I think, considering their output), whose purpose is to lie to and deceive the more gullible citizens.— carl and sons - and Sons, let's see if you have it in you to be sensible and reasonable.
This piece is not about McCain, even though it echoes his point to further investigate the events subsequent to the siege of the Libyan consulate. So McCain's history is inconsequential.
What is paramount is to make public how and why and who changed the intelligence reports to mislead the American audience. Calling the altered version talking points and justifying their erroneous content as mere script, is the issue. Pravda was the organ of the Soviet Party. It was used to lie to and deceive the Russian people. Talking Points, in this instance, served a comparable purpose.
So if you want to debate the issue, try your hand at that. Let us see if you can, or whether you are simply hot air, looking for a fight.— PlumberJoe - OK, McCain survived a horrible experience in a POW camp and gave only his name rank and serial number, and by some combination of luck and pluck survived. He deserves credit for that.
But he also dumped his wife, married filthy rich, owns 100 homes and consistently aligns himself with his new social club against the interests of 98% of Americans. He ran for president and insulted and endangered the whole nation by choosing an abject fool as his running mate. Now he's aiding and abetting the Fox News Benghazi Network in ginning up a controversy against the man who defeated him for president. The personal animus is obvious.
There comes a time to many "heroes" when their halo tarnishes. McCain's has practically crumbled into dust. He's reached the tipping point where he's harmed this country more than helped it.— carl and sons - Mrs. Simon, you have proved my point. Your vote was wasted, the same as if you did not vote. Next time write-in for the man in the moon.
It is you who rage, but over nothing of value.
When you have finished raging, try saying something useful, something you can be proud of, something Mr. Simon can applaud, something objective.— PlumberJoe - The Green Party Lost the election, true. The Repubs also lost. So was your voted also wasted??? — carl and sons
- you cannot be as stupid as you sound. — PlumberJoe
- My fear is that you ARE as stupid as you sound, and running around unsupervised yet. — carl and sons
- Mrs. Simon, you rage and rage, like a shutter flapping in the wind.
You did not vote. Do you let others decide for all the important matters in your life, as well.
Make an objective case first and them present your conclusions. If you can. Till then, you are just more of the din, just a loud insult machine.— PlumberJoe - You raging idiot. I did vote. And for President, I cast my vote for the Green Party. I am disgusted with the 2 major parties and the Billions that went into these campaigns that ended up changing nothing. I refuse to hold my nose to cast a vote just because it is a D or R. And I support any third party as much as I can. Sorry that you're such a bitter loser. — MrsSimon
- Perhaps in this age I shouldn’t be, but I do find it astonishing at which lengths that some on the right are going, to make the Benghazi attack a scandal. If you have differing political views from the President, fine. I respect that. But to make scurrilous comments that aren’t based in fact, no matter how loud you scream or use caps to type it, is fair game for attack. I didn’t vote for Obama or Romney, and I could fill 10 pages with the many reasons why, but to say that Obama used divide and conquer is just sheer projection. When a political campaign, sending out its 2 most prominent female voices (Matalin and Bay Buchanan; egads, that reflects how marginal the GOP has become) to spread the disgusting “makers vs takers” meme, when its candidate is exposed saying that 47% of Americans are moochers – that’s divide and conquer, my dear. A political party that would describe the people of this country in such a shameful and derogatory way displays a divide and conquer contempt that should forever keep them from putting anyone in the White House. And citing a decorated POW just because he espouses views that align with yours does not give his or your words any more credibility than this statement: “President Obama flew into Pakistan, tracked down and personally shot Bin Laden, but the right is covering that up.” If you want to say that Rice is “fast & loose” with the truth, then you need to give examples. You must have heard or read that some where – share your source with us. Your post-election columns and blogs present an unhinged mind. It is obvious you didn’t pay attention the last 15 months or just simply bought the bs that was fed to you from the right wing propaganda machine – you and many in your party seem shell shocked by what was obvious to most of us. Maybe spend some time talking to people that don’t always agree with you or confirm what you think. You know, develop an informed opinion. Stop rewriting your idol’s words.— MrsSimon
- Second, your logic is more pitiful than Gendres' logic.— PlumberJoe
- Has this broad been in a coma for the past four years? Yeah, I guess a sitting leader of Congress who pronounces that their only goal is the political destruction and failure of an elected president, and who spends the next four years working toward that goal, is a real force for unity. This idiot really needs to be writing kids puzzles for Highlights magazine, she's an intellectual embarrassment, even for a beaten down subservient christian woman.— CiceroSpuriousDeodatusTheSecond
- Gendres, you are not playing with little children. al Qaeda knew we knew it was them before Rice went on the tv. It seems the only person in the world she fooled is you.— PlumberJoe
- PJ, Rice is a diplomat with a sterling reputation. Her job is to represent her country abroad, not to create her own tempest in a teapot. Did you want her to contradict the report that she was told was the latest and most modified version of events?
Perhaps they should have delayed any announcements, unless they threw in the story about the video to distract the terrorists while the intelligence community did its work. Surely, you do not expect them to tip their hand before absolutely necessary.
Don't card sharks call that sort of thing - "bluffing"?
Sure, everyone knows the "truth" now, but in those days immediately following the attack, the intelligence community decided to be cagey.
— Gendres - Gendres, so Rice is a puppet. Lots of puppets working in that White House.
Keep in mind she read from a MODIFIED script, intended (in your words) to be a red herring. But also keep in mind we know that the al Qaeda knew we knew who the real bad guys were.
So stop trying to pull the red herring over my eyes. I know the truth and you know I know the truth.— PlumberJoe - Let's just let the congressional commission do its work.— Gendres
- PJ. here is the video of the interview with the Libyan president where he says he has "no doubt" that the attack on Benghazi was a deliberately planned terrorist attack. By then, everyone else was also saying the same thing.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/libya-president-benghazi-attack-terrorism-133154516.html
The date was September 26.
Rice made her statement, which was actually a script handed to her by the CIA, only five days after the attack.
She obviously gave a misinformed account, but she is an ambassador not a spy. She depended on the agency to give her the up to the minute talking points.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/susan-rice-libya_n_2141392.html— Gendres - Gendres, the same day as Rice lied all over the place on tv, the president of Libya explained that it was terrorists and not a silly video.
The terrorists are much smarter than you. They knew we already knew.— PlumberJoe - meant to say that "some politics did NOT enter into the decisions...."— Gendres
- I know it is hard to believe that during a heated presidential campaign such as this one, that some politics entered into the decisions and discussions of the Bengazi crisis. It is wrong however to jump to conclusions and especially for equally political motives.
Let the investigation sort things out.
veritatem dies aperit— Gendres - PJ, according to Petraeus, the dropping of the name "alQaeda" from the report was done so as not to alert the terrorists that we were on to them. It was a deliberate subterfuge meant to fool the enemy - a red herring so to speak.
So if you want to be technical and call it a "lie to the American people" you could, but in the history and context of political and military "lies" it is one of countless such ruses.
D-Day and the Normandy invasion, for example, was cloaked in similar red herrings and deceptions.
Confederate General Magruder is famous for deceiving the Union army by marching the same small group of soldiers past the same points so they believed their forces were bigger.
The Roman army always used subterfuge to conquer its enemies. And Hannibal delighted in playing tricks on the Romans like running a herd of oxen with torches tied to their horns up a mountain path as if they were Carthaginians.
So please don't act so shocked that our government could possibly engage in such practices to fool an enemy.
As far as the "stand down" order, let's wait to see what the investigation turns up.— Gendres - Gendres you are reasonable, intelligent, fair minded and willing to hear all sides.
Here are the facts, Draw you own conclusion.
FACT- Within 24 hours the CIA supplied the White House with a report stating the Benghazi attacks were perpetrated by al Qaeda terrorists.
FACT- The White House then lied to the American people when the White House claimed the attacks were the result of a movie. Participants in this lie were Rice, Obama, Clinton (H), Carney and a host of others.
Perhaps lies such as this are in the basket of tricks of a community activist, but surely not in the way a CIC handles such a situation.
Oh, and we have yet to get to the bottom of the "stand down" order. The next time you call 911 for help, just hope you did not get connected to the White House.— PlumberJoe - Gorgeous sunshine today. We should all go out in it.
Ta ta....and kudos again, Chris, on your splendid poetic satire in Friday's DN. Well done.
8-)— Gendres - CEWR - Yes, I read the same report, but of course it has a few places where there could be another interpretation, to be fair to PJ.
The material was sensitive to be sure, but maybe the comments made would have been better left out entirely, rather than stretch the credibility of the American ambassador.
My concern would also be that if there is a fudging of any report...as has happened sadly and too often, that the national government itself could lose its integrity.
As I said before, it is a tricky business.
I am glad that they are investigating the matter and that the whole unvarnished truth will come out. Petraeus is a valuable witness whom I am sure no one is suspecting of being dishonerable ...at least in regard to his duty to his country.
— Gendres - PJ, all the reports I read about the Petraeus testimony said nothing about "lying" but about the CIA's leaving out sensitive classified information that might endanger sources.
Spying is a tricky business. The American people are not entitled to know every detail of intelligence gathering because that might compromise everyone's safety.
I know you are hoping for an impeachable offense, but you won't find it here.
Sorry.
Are you that eager for a President Biden???
8-)
— Gendres - PJ wallows in his total lack of credibility: “Lawmakers said Petraeus testified that the CIA's draft talking points written in response to the assault on the diplomat post in Benghazi that killed four Americans referred to it as a terrorist attack. But Petraeus told the lawmakers that reference was removed from the final version, although he wasn't sure which federal agency deleted it. Democrats said Petraeus made it clear the change was not made for political reasons during President Barack Obama's re-election campaign. "The general was adamant there was no politicization of the process, no White House interference or political agenda," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif. "He completely debunked that idea." The recently resigned spy chief explained that references to terrorist groups suspected of carrying out the violence were removed from the public explanation of what caused the attack so as not to tip off the groups that the U.S. intelligence community was on their trail. "There was an interagency process to draft it, not a political process," Schiff said. "They came up with the best assessment without compromising classified information or source or methods. So changes were made to protect classified information." - AP — ChrisElliottWasRight
- Zzzzzzzzzz.....like McCain, you're a bitter old fool!— The Fundamentals of the Economy are Fine
- You can say whatever you want to say about McCain. I think he was washed up years ago. But that does not change the truth he speaks now.
Obama deliberately deceived America when he lied, and put Rice out to lie, about Benghazi. That mandates exactly what McCain has called for- a Select Committee to present the full case to the American people. And what comes after that- justice.
Step 1 has already happened. Petraeus has testified that the White HOuse deliberately lied. The next steps will link the chain of lies to Obama. There is no way out for Obama.— PlumberJoe - Flowers is completely clueless (as is this hero) as to why their party lost the election. Thanks for serving up another old white guy to express his lamentation of "his" America,(it is an absurd accusation from the right that Obama has an anti-American view - it is expressly American, on all counts) one that passed him by decades ago. Just because he is a decorated veteran, does not give him extraordinary political acumen, obviously.— Tuptim
- So, what's wrong with old white guys, Tupim? — Falls Ed
- If anything, Obama's consideration of Susan Rice for Secretary of State is a bold statement that nothing will change in the second term of his administration. The President will continue to cast the Republican house as obstructionist, while never making a serious attempt to compromise to break through the inertia in Washington. Does he really not see the legitmate issues with the Benghazi timeline and the concocted, out-of-date "spontaneous eruption" explanation that Susan Rice offered? Or does he just not care? Sadly, it appears it is the latter. For those of you who voted for President Obama, you should be disappointed by this tone-deaf move.— Origami
- Divide and Conquer? Barack Obama? You're an idiot. I think you and the honorable POW need to step away from the Cool-Aid Jug. Read below. "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. ... [M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives"— shamdog
- McCain and his fellow POWS understand the importance of the truth, PJ. President Obama's cabinet members, including Susan Rice, not so much. I guess it's not fair to hold Obama to the same standard as true heros who spent countless hours being tortured at the Hanoi Hilton while the president was learning his ABCs. But it is instructive to know that in America, there are still some people who cannot be fooled, or swayed, by the sweet rhetoric of the politician and who understand that patriotism is a function of action, not acting,— Christine
- "McCain and his fellow POWS understand the importance of the truth..."
Really? On what do you base this statement? It's silly assertions like this that make it hard to take you seriously.
I don't know exactly how forthcoming Obama & Rice have been on this matter, they are politicians after all, as is McCain. But it's obvious that the attempt to make this into a major scandal is just the whining of a bunch of sore losers and their media puppets.— carl and sons - Four Americans are dead, carl, because the White House ignored intelligence which it found inconvenient. Then it lied to the American people to cover up its failure and treachery. — Falls Ed
- Yes, thanks. I've heard the Fox News version of things. Why should I allow them any credibility? Because of their devotion to accuracy and the truth?
Right.— carl and sons - I heard McCain speak on Obama and Obama's role in broadcasting lies on Libya. This Blog is fully accurate.
Obama cannot escape from his very own words. Obama can dodge and play word games, but he cannot run away and hide from the truth.— PlumberJoe - cribbing articles from alabama dot com seems about right for ms flowers— box297
1
Popular Posts
About this blog
See Christine Flowers on Channel 6's "Inside Story" Sunday at 11:30 a.m.
Christine M. Flowers
Daily News Columnist
Email Christine M. at cflowers1961@yahoo.com Reach Christine M. at cflowers1961@yahoo.com.
Classifieds:
Site Services:
Partners: