Tuesday, February 5, 2013
Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Physicians are not overpaid

Everyone likes to complain about how much money doctors make. Many people hear the word "physician" and equate it with a mansion, BMW, and lavish vacation. But physicians don't make nearly as much as you think.

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Physicians are not overpaid

POSTED: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 6:00 AM

Everyone likes to complain about how much money doctors make. Many people hear the word “physician” and equate it with a mansion, BMW, and lavish vacation. But physicians don’t make nearly as much as you think.

After finishing high school, physicians spend a minimum of 11 years in training. Specialized physicians train even longer, sometimes for as long as 20 years. These are years spent making no money while in school, or making very little money during residency and fellowship. And by the time these individuals are “real” physicians, they are already in their mid-to-late thirties and have spent years struggling financially to support themselves and their families.

During the three to seven years of medical residency, physicians in training who abide by the maximum 80-hour-work-week mandated by the Joint Commission make approximately $11 an hour before taxes. Some residents impermissibly work over 100 hours a week, which makes their hourly wage even lower. Many residents travel to numerous different hospitals, cover the cost of their own gas, and even have to pay for parking at the hospitals where they work. Residents pay hundreds of dollars to attend conferences to improve their knowledge in their area of practice and thousands of dollars to study for and take licensing exams.

Now, you might think that this is a small price to pay to make the big bucks starting at age 35. Wrong. Physician income decreased in 2011, malpractice insurance premiums and other costs are on the rise, and reimbursement rates are declining. Although the potential 26.5 percent Medicare reimbursement cuts were avoided in the fiscal cliff settlement, the fix is only temporary and the increases could still kick in sometime in the future.

At the same time, the cost of medical school tuition continues to increase faster than the rate of inflation. The average osteopathic (D.O.) medical school graduate has $205,675 in debt, and the average allopathic (M.D.) medical school graduate has $162,000 in debt. And as of July 1, 2012, graduate students were no longer eligible for subsidized Stafford Loans offered by the federal government, which will cause medical education debt to increase even more.

So, you think doctors are in it for the money? If they once were, they aren’t anymore. Nearly half of all physicians regret going into medicine. And when asked whether they feel they are adequately compensated, only 51% of physicians say yes.

Healthcare costs could bankrupt our country, and the high cost of physician salaries is a contributing cause. However, we cannot reduce physician salaries until we reduce the cost of physician training. We cannot expect physicians to spend up to 20 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in training and then pay them a meager salary.

While your radiologist or orthopedist may be making enough money to be considered “rich,” some physicians risk going broke. Your primary care physician may not even be making enough to pay off her medical school loans. Plus, high expenses and debt repayment cause all physicians’ take-home pay to dwindle.

So next time you are jealous of your physician’s salary, remember the time and sacrifice it took to earn that salary, and that her take-home pay isn’t nearly as high as it appears.

And yes, I note in the interest of full disclosure, that I am engaged to a resident physician.

Erica Cohen @ 6:00 AM  Permalink | 41 comments
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Comments  (41)
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:01 AM, 01/31/2013
    This forum proves the point that not knowing absolutley anything at all about a topic doesn't stop some people from posting.
    jak55555
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 1:15 PM, 01/25/2013
    Field - you are arguing both sides. Obamacare will significantly reduce physician disbursements. The quality of practioners will decrease (ever hear "why are there so many foreign doctors?"). They are not going to Norway or Canada where healthcare is free that's for sure. The doctor lives a lifestyle. I don't know any doctors not living the good life. It is a personal choice (privacy) who you fund school, or repay your loan. But this argument has been made forever and doesn't hold water then or now. The end.
    boroughboy
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:58 AM, 01/24/2013
    One could say the same for Phil Mickleson, i cant imagine how hard he pracitces the sacrifices travelling the costs associated with having to join a club or for coaching etc.... Everyone has their breaking point on how hard they work and wanting to keep what they have. It seems people only really respect their own point of view now days... And the only person who gets any sympathy is the poorest person. Oh wait he gets blasted for being lazy and picking the wrong major...
    JL68
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:18 AM, 01/24/2013
    The majority of these comments, especially that by nuggett are offensive. we risk ourselves and our future by taking any job? That does not even make sense. Doctors devote their early lives to training. They give up their social lives, they give up all of their free time until their mid to late 30s. They put off starting families. And they make minimal pay. How many other professions go through graduate school to make under 50,000 per year?? I don't think it is appropriate to compare a physician to "any other job", its not any other job. Medical school is nearly impossible to get into, and then you work ungodly hours studying, training, etc. And 200,00 year is not really enough when you think about all the debt that accrues during that time.
    frustrated12345
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:57 AM, 01/24/2013
    People are crazy and not bright. They resent others from making money and push prices down and want reform then when it happens to them they complain they arent making enough. Also when the prices get pushed down regardless of the sector to the point where no one wants the job and service sucks they complain that the service sucks. The mentality is the other guy should do his work for free because I dont want to pay and I should be able to afford everything I want and when it comes to my money I should be able to make more. Crazy world we live in.... And when it doesnt work out we run to the government to fix it and that works really well. I used to work with doctors and most of them were in it for the money not saying they didnt want to help people but the many I met were arrogant and all they thought about was money and they would tell me their strategies to try to keep their incomes up over the years as regulations and lawsuites changed I cant think of one of the strategies that created better care. So I am not an expert on Obamacare but I think the result is we pay more and get less as a group but everyone gets something to make them feel better because that is what we are all about right now take from the people making money and spread it around so no one really has much and everyone is happy.
    JL68
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:50 AM, 01/24/2013
    Doctors deserve every penny they make; just to get into medical school takes high academic achievement. Also, doctors deal with an incredible amount of stress and complexity on a daily basis.

    If there is any single area we should scrutinize, it should be corporate c-level executives who make insane bucks via salary and stock options while their mules do all of the hard work and typically make below 6 figures per year.
    The Baron
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:47 AM, 01/24/2013
    Dave Clemens - CLUELESS!
    TruthTeller01
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 4:43 AM, 01/24/2013
    drug companies only one getting rich here.
    sgamble077
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 4:41 AM, 01/24/2013
    scratch doctor off my to do list.
    sgamble077
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:48 PM, 01/23/2013
    BLKMD: Thanks for getting it. Judging by your name, I can assume why. I was 14 years out of high school before I made my first decent salary. I love my job and derive a lot of satisfaction from practicing, but for any of you know-it-alls who want to see what it's like, come find me in the hospital. I'll be there at 6 tomorrow morning and I won't be done until 8 in the evening. Lunch and dinner and bathroom breaks may or may not happen; don't bank on them. I will be saving lives and dealing with more rules and regulations than you could ever imagine, all while dealing with people who don't have the faintest idea how hard it is to be a physician. I'm not saying I don't make a great living, but I'll bet my paycheck against yours that all of these "expert critics" don't have the stomach or the stones to round with me 13-14 hours a day, every day and every 3rd weekend. Put your money where your mouths are. I'll be around.
    Doctor D
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:43 PM, 01/23/2013
    into underserved areas died in the Reagan era cuts. My brother, an FP, has worked hard and struggled in his practice. The system itself is broken and needs revised.
    frinkie
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:40 PM, 01/23/2013
    I'm a pediatrician who went into medicine to make a decent income and make a difference in kids' lives. 17 years later, I have been laid off twice, two of my practices have gone under...I have come very close to defaulting on the 1900/month student loan payments (ask a doc about the evil HEAL loan terms)...I don't own a house...I drive a 10-year old Corolla (in primary care, this is not unusual, trust me). Many of the subsidized federal programs to help young docs pay off debt by volunteering to go int
    frinkie
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:40 PM, 01/23/2013
    I'm a pediatrician who went into medicine to make a decent income and make a difference in kids' lives. 17 years later, I have been laid off twice, two of my practices have gone under...I have come very close to defaulting on the 1900/month student loan payments (ask a doc about the evil HEAL loan terms)...I don't own a house...I drive a 10-year old Corolla (in primary care, this is not unusual, trust me). Many of the subsidized federal programs to help young docs pay off debt by volunteering to go int
    frinkie
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:47 PM, 01/23/2013
    Cry me a river! All I ever hear from Docs is how poorly compensated they are.All the ones I know tell kids to get an MBA. Ha! They are so isolated from society that they have no idea how the real world works. The ones I know have 4-8 weeks a year vacation, many are home every night by 5 or 6, etc. All (that I know) travel many times more than the average MBA, and/or have a vacation home. Please. As someone else stated, short of complete malpractice, there is no risk of unemployment or living at sub-living wage. Look at the average physician salaries. Oh, and by the way, if it is so bad, how come not many are abandoning the field? It is so bad, they all stay in! Not saying incomes haven;t shrunk. But a lot of that is all the years of overcharging insurance companies has come back to haunt them.
    fedupwithtaxesnj
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:25 AM, 01/24/2013
    abandoning the field? how can you? when you're only trained to do one thing, and you have too much debt to go back and do anything else? These comments are all so unfounded it is ridiculous.
    frustrated12345
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 7:35 PM, 01/23/2013
    Now that Obummer has been re-elected It's only going to get worse for doctors, their pay is going to be next working for free with Obummer care because Obummer does not believe doctors should be compensated for the their services. Any doctor who voted for Obummer is getting their just desserts for voting for agitator-in-chief, for those who did not vote for Obummer should examine their own hearts to see if they did their part to help Romney, if not then they should have nothing to complain about
    Speak-truth-2-power
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 4:52 PM, 01/23/2013
    I agree that the cost of a med school is a bigger part of high healthcare costs than physician's salaries. So are/is malpractice suits/insurance.
    cloudkitt
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:35 PM, 01/23/2013
    Yeah they are if you compare to them their even their best-paid counterparts internationally with PCPs making 1.5-2x more than the best-paid PCPs globally and specialists making 3x-5x more than the best paid specialists globally. US doctors do have a much higher debt load but they also make (especially specialists) much, much more than any other their other counterparts. Any seasoned specialist in the US is clearing at least $200k/annually and more likely above $250k.
    PhillyGuy77
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:27 PM, 01/23/2013
    I have been to many, many doctors in the past 4 years for a variety of reasons. I would say that more than half of them are clearly burned out. Honestly, if they don't want to be in their jobs they need to find something else to do. They don't listen to patients. They are always focused on "the next" patient because patient face time is more money. Our healthcare system is broken and is not the best in the world. Anyone who thinks we have the best in the world, clearly does not need healthcare. We all have challenges in our jobs and our financial health. Maybe today's doctors were living in a dream world when they thought their lives would be different. Get over it and do your job like the rest of us have to do.
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:22 PM, 01/23/2013
    Yo, beats flippin' burgers and you get good parking at the hospital...are they in for the money? What a dopey question...
    rex nemorensis
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:15 PM, 01/23/2013
    the bean counters with MBAs are the only ones who do it for the money. Good ones work for doctors, most bad ones think doctors work for them
    drtjyen
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 2:59 PM, 01/23/2013
    Dave Clemens - average ob/gyn malpractice insurance for one year (paid out of pocket) in the Philly region is about $80,000. Notice how all of the great OB/GYNs are closing up shop? Because they can't afford to stay in business. This is the average IF no one sues - given our litigious region, you can bet most will be sued at some point during their careers and then will pay even more. Repaying loans for Med School and sometimes for undergraduate studies as well could average more than $1,500/month. Every single note made on every single chart needs to be transcribed by a transcription service - more money required for Doctors to do their jobs - and a mandate by law that it is done properly. If you want to start whining about how much people make, perhaps you should start with insurance salespeople who get overpaid for how many miles they drive and how many lunches they buy and who are responsible for the increase in insurance rates for everyone.
    bingbangbong
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 2:37 PM, 01/23/2013
    sounds to me like physicians need to unionize
    Ryan
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 2:33 PM, 01/23/2013
    My doctor gave me six months to live. I couldn't pay my bill, so he gave me another six months. !!! Thank You , I'll be here all week !!!
    fat tony
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 2:30 PM, 01/23/2013
    I don't blame them - everyone else is!
    redheart85
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:45 AM, 01/23/2013
    I think most are missing the point of this article. I don't think the author wanted people to have sympathy for physicians. I think her point was that there is a misconception that most physicians are rich and therefore that drove their decision to become a doctor. If you look at professions with comparable salaries (i.e business or law) the difference in training and debt is not comparable. I do agree that the job security of the profession is likely a bigger motivating factor.
    BLKMD
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:08 AM, 01/23/2013
    Oh, for goodness sake. Get out the violins. Here's what Erica Cohen's husband (assuming they marry) can expect to make, as an annual average, in various medical fields: Family practice, $200,000; psychiatry, $211,000; gynecology, $233,000; opthalmology, $248,000; general surgery, $350,000; anesthesiology, $360,000; dermatology, $365,000; cardiology, $402,000. These figures are according to the 2011-12 salary survey at profilesdatabase.com, and they compare with median U.S. household income of $50,000 in 2011. As for paying off student loans, the government has various programs that pay down as much as $120,000 for physicians who agree to work 2-3 years in underserved areas of the country. Plus, some medical practices will pay off some or all student debt for new doctors they especially want. Please forgive me, Ms. Cohen, if I don't cry for you.
    Dave Clemens
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:53 AM, 01/23/2013
    The author has neglected to mention that doctors are not susceptible to unemployment unless they commit an egregious act. Not being downsized or having the opportunity to be immediately re-hired is a priceless thing. Just ask the millions of unemployed people.
    hairball
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:49 PM, 01/23/2013
    You'd think so, wouldn't you? But hospitals close all the time and many doctors are lousy businessmen and are totally ruined when they try to have their own private practice. I think some major news organization did a huge feature on that a few months ago. Just because there will always be sick people doesn't mean that doctors are never unemployed.

    Even then, some don't make enough to cover the costs. Malpractice insurance can run 6-figures a year for surgeons.

    On a slightly different note, this reminds me of the time I met some big-shot from the FDA who still lives with his mother because he's still paying off his tuition.
    Ilmare
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:32 AM, 01/23/2013
    Obama is trying to bankrupt our doctors and destroy our healthcare!
    mystikast
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 3:41 PM, 01/23/2013
    You are an ill-informed, illogical, ideologue.

    I am a college professor at a small catholic college who makes less than my students do upon graduation. I put one spouse through medical school and had a long term relationship with a family practioner. Last year I married a radiologist, who makes good money, and is very generous with her money. My M.D. brother-in-law runs a firm of high level health providers. None of them would agree with you. Two are life long Republicans.

    Educate yourself, or continue making posts that reveal your ignorance.
    Dr Bri
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:22 AM, 01/23/2013
    While what the article stated is true, it is short sighted. Sure doctors spend a decade in school and residency. Sure they have loads of debt after graduation. But the point is they make it all back within the first 5 years of being a real physician if they can live modestly at first. So by the time they turn 40, student loans will be paid off and everything will be on the up and up. As for the author, she will be singing a different tune once her soon to be husband finishes residency and becomes a real doctor.
    penncrow19
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:24 AM, 01/24/2013
    By the time they turn 40?! none of these commenters have any idea what they are talking about. Most doctors are in training until they are nearly 40. I will not have my first attending job until I am 38, and I have gone straight through. 9 years of post graduate training is a lot.
    frustrated12345
  • Comment removed.
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:08 AM, 01/23/2013
    I am perplexed how an article titled, "Physicians are not overpaid" doesn't reference the average salary of a radiologist or orthopedist, yet references their tuition costs. "Years spent making no money while in school." Do any college students or graduate students make money while in school? I find it very difficult to empathize with physicians who believe they are underpaid. This article should be in the Opinion section, in my opinion.
    Delilah, MD
    delilah10
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 12:44 PM, 01/23/2013
    Clearly you are an idiot....physicians perform 4 years of college (no pay), 4 years of medical school (no pay) 3 to 7 years residency (100 hrs/wk at roughly $50K/yr), and 1 to 3 years fellowship (at a little more). All of this training is not matched anywhere by any other profession in the world. Additionally, no one complains that lawyers, CEOs, politicians, stock brokers, etc make too much money nearly as much as they do with physicians.
    HonestJohn3
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 10:38 AM, 01/23/2013
    Thank you, delilah. The author of this piece not only wants to benefit from her husband-to-be's fat salary, she also wants us to think it's not enough. Rubbish. And to those of you who are using this article as a springboard to attack President Obama, just know that neither he nor any Democratic legislator wants physicians either to go broke or work for the government. A British-style National Health Service has NEVER been on the table in this country. (And even under the NHS, a number of doctors work for themselves, not for the government.) Your ill-informed criticisms do nothing to advance the health care debate.
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 9:01 AM, 01/23/2013
    Nuggett- I see you missed the "I like this field" reason. And believe it or not, some doctors actually want to help people (I know a few). I can agree with money and benefits, those are good things to have to live. Ego and prestige? I think you're projecting a bit, especially with the "nobody" part.
    verve
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:37 AM, 01/23/2013
    Making doctors go broke was Obama's intention so the will have no options except working for the government.
    CD75
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:35 AM, 01/23/2013
    Being a doctor is one of the hardest jobs. They are in fact underpaid. Obamacare seeks to turn them into servants.
    CD75
  • 0 like this / 0 don't   •   Posted 8:26 AM, 01/23/2013
    Stop already....Nobody takes a job, chooses a career to be poor or average...None of us do things purley for altruistic reasons, except maybe clergy types, cops and fire fighters.....We all do it for money, prestige, ego and benefits....
    Stop with the woe is me I am doctor and I am not a millionaire (yet) whining.......and we all risk ourselves and our future by taking anyjob....
    nuggett


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About this blog

Health care is changing almost before our eyes, and the headlines just scratch the surface. From Obamacare to Medicare to managed care to genomics, the blog reports on and analyzes the laws, government policies, and political trends that are transforming the care we receive and the way we pay for it. The Field Clinic dissects the latest health care news, explaining it and putting it in context.

The Field Clinic is written by:

Robert FieldRobert I. Field, Ph.D., J.D., M.P.H, professor of law at the Earle Mack School of Law and professor of health management and policy at the School of Public Health at Drexel University. He is the author of Health Care Regulation in America: Complexity, Confrontation and Compromise, a comprehensive overview of the government’s oversight of health care published by Oxford University Press.

Erica Cohen

Erica Cohen, a third-year law student concentrating in health law at Drexel University Earle Mack School of Law. She graduated from the Scripps School of Journalism at Ohio University with a major in online journalism and minors in business and political science. Prior to attending law school, Erica worked for DKMS Americas, the world's largest bone marrow donor center. She currently works as a legal intern in the office of general counsel at a local hospital.

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