Archive: September, 2009
Hi Dr. Dan:
How does one be in a relationship with a narcissistic parent?
I am an only child and my parents were divorced when I was 8. My mother passed away from illness when I was 21 so my father is all I have. He has some health issues but none that would keep him from working. He chooses not to work, and live off the government on social security.
I can go on and talk about the false suicidal threats he pulled, the number of times I gave him money, a place to live, etc…
And it's not just financial. I have also been in a parental role emotionally. My father has never had much interest in my life.
Recently I was telling my father about a treatment I was going to start to treat for a skin condition. He interrupted me in mid-sentence to tell me about his friend's child. I realized that his self-absorption was even more severe than I realized.
Yesterday was my birthday and he did not bother to call me or see me. This was a first but no surprise. I'm wondering how I should proceed. Do I not call him on this? Do I ignore him on his birthday?
I think the bigger issue is how much I give to a parent who gives so little back? I invite him over for dinners, take him out to eat, get him presents on father’s day, etc... I guess I do this out of my own guilt and fear of losing a connection with him. Deep down I have a fear of him dying. I realized this a few years ago when he used suicidal threats to manipulate me.
I’d appreciate any thoughts on how to handle this.
Tired daughter
Dear tired daughter:
Although your father may be depressed, he shows many signs of a narcissistic personality disorder. Those with this disorder believe they are “special.” They require excessive admiration, display an unreasonable sense of entitlement and lack empathy.
Personality disorders are notoriously difficult to treat because like your father, these people with these disorders don’t think they have a problem. So they rarely seek treatment. When they do, they usually lack the commitment required to begin modifying one's personality
.I understand that you are angry at his manipulation and that he cares more about himself than his only child. And I understand the terrible imbalance in this relationship.
But your letter tells me more about his behavior than it does about you. You are the one who is suffering
.If I were to ask you what you really wanted, you might say boundaries. But as I read your letter more carefully, I hear your continued devotion for this man and fear of his death, I wonder if what you really want is something beyond boundaries. Maybe you have an unspoken longing for the father you may have wished for since you were eight years old.
Perhaps your tenacity is about something you have carried deep inside your heart for many years: Hope.
I am sure you know in your head that he won't change, but maybe your heart doesn't know that because it is just too painful. I would suggest the real source of your suffering is unrelenting hope.
You've had three significant deaths in your life. A divorce is like a death to an eight-year old child, and of course your mother's death came when you were 21. I am sure in whatever way you did, you acknowledged and grieved for these losses.
But the one death you have not dealt with is the death of your dream to have the father you want.
Once you stop fighting with him and for him, what's left? Then you would be in a relationship with a man who is emotionally unable to connect, a man who, because of whatever defect, is incapable of compassion.
You would be in a relationship with a man who is broken and in many ways childlike. If you can mourn this loss and relate to this man as he is, he might feel less dangerous to you. And you might be able to set boundaries without resentment.
One more thing. I would suggest that your fear of his death might be about love. Despite his outrageous behavior, it sounds as if you still love this man.
Love is not a zero-sum game. Love without expectations feels good. Love with expectations causes suffering. Once your dream for the father you've always needed has died, you might find yourself able to love the father you have.
I hope so.
Someone I know quite well was telling me that a few weeks ago he began waking up around three in the morning and had difficulty getting back to sleep. I know he has a history of Seasonal Affective Disorder and suspected this was the first sign. For many people with the disorder, the onset comes sometime in August just as the days begin to get shorter. Anyway, he said that the sleep disturbance didn't bother him that much because he was relieved that he wasn't feeling depressed. I know he has a history of clinical depression and I also know how devastating it can be, so I certainly understand his relief.
But then he went on to say that just last week the depressive symptoms began. Although mood still wasn't depressed (only one of many symptoms of depression) he was having some of the cognitive symptoms that go with depression. He was feeling less secure about his thoughts and judgments, more tentative in some social interactions, and an increase in his baseline anxiety. And he said his mind sometimes feels like chipmunks on steroids!
He said he is able to do his work but he is much more tired than usual. He is a part-time writer and sometimes he feels his work isn't quite the quality it was before all this started. Of course that is probably just as negative perception because I know his work and I think it has been excellent.
The reason I know this guy so well is because I have been living with him for 63 years!
Seasonal Affective Disorder affects many people to varying degrees. Although we don't know why some people get it and others don't, we do know that there is a genetic link and people with a history of depression are at increased risk. I have had three previous episodes of clinical depression and currently take a maintenance dose of medication. What I am experiencing is technically in the mild range of depression, but for some, the depression can be quite severe, triggering thoughts of hopelessness and despair.
The experience of even moderate depression is to be living with a mind that feels out of control. Thoughts race, everything feels worrisome, hopeless and never-ending. Those with depression have a tendency to be terribly self-critical and blame themselves for their problems which only adds to the shame.
The experience of depression is not well known by the general public. Of course I was being humorous when I talked about chipmunks on steroids, but depression does make one much more self-conscious. And because of the shame and stigma attached, many feel very alone afraid to talk about what's happening for fear of being harshly judged.
But the big question here is what to do about it. One could easily say that it's only seasonal and you just have to live with it, and maybe that's true. But depression is not good for your brain and if possible needs to be dealt with quickly and effectively.
Many recommend light boxes to supplement the lack of external light. This is not FDA approved as the research is not definitive, but there is plenty of evidence that this does have an effect for many people. It's good to consult your doctor or mental health professional, but not all are knowledgeable about these things.
I have been using lights attached to a sun visor for about two weeks and I have been feeling a bit better. Of course there is no way of knowing whether the lights are contributing, but I certainly hope so because I look incredibly silly in my hat!
Of course medication can be helpful for this like it is any other depression. And some doctors recommend getting all in a preventative dose of medication before the symptoms begin.
Most people should get about eight to nine hours sleep a night, but it's especially important for those with depression as fatigue can make depression worse and vice versa. However, those with depression shouldn't be spending extra time in bed as that will only increase fatigue and make the depression worse.
Like with any other depression, frequent aerobic exercise helps as does a healthy diet. Meditation and yoga are also quite helpful. My meditation practice has helped you feel less attached to the depression. Although I still feel it, it only feels like one of many experiences in my and it doesn't control my life.
Depression like any other illness is helped by the care and support of others. Despite one's instinct to withdrawal , silence makes shame worse. So even though it might feel awkward, it's important to share what is happening with people whose compassion you trust.
I just did.
Dan’s guest Tuesday on his noon web chat will be psychologist Tamara Chansky, author of Freeing Your Child from Negative Thinking: Powerful, Practical Strategies to Build a Lifetime of Resilience, Flexibility, and Happiness.
Hi Dr. Gottlieb,
My young daughter is having a difficult year. She has been doing various sports and playing music for several years with much success. But this year, her first in high school, things are not going well.
She has been getting low scores in her athletics compared to her friends. She also did not make the high school band while her friends were accepted.
She has always excelled at everything and now is beginning to feel that she is not talented and is becoming depressed and withdrawn.What’s the best way to talk to her about this?
Dear Susan,
I'll get to the “how to talk to her” part in a minute, but let's first figure out what the problem might be.
What your daughter is experiencing is too common among many girls her age. Children that age are beginning to learn about their identity, how they are the same as and different from their parents and friends. One way they do this is by experiencing success and failure, watching peers, and having plenty of downtime where they can dream about the future.
In today's world, however, not only do children not have enough downtime, they don't have the luxury of failing. A generation ago, children’s afterschool activities were about play; now they are about achievement. And “average” has become the equivalent of failure!
The goal is no longer to do your best; it’s about living up to some impossible standard. This push for perfection comes from the family, school and peers and the larger culture. I actually heard a car commercial last year that said: “Good enough is no longer good enough!”
So what is it like for our children to grow up in that culture? Overachieving girls often come from families whose parents model high achievement and self-sacrifice. Failure is crushing to these children because it's not about what they have or haven't done, it's about who they are. “If I fail,” many of these children think “that means I am a failure.” The stakes are sky-high for each event. Even when they succeed, the sense of accomplishment doesn't last because there is always more to accomplish right around the corner.
At its extremes, perfectionism can be a symptom of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and can lead to depression or eating disorders. Susan, your daughter might not be this extreme at all. This could present you and your family with an unexpected opportunity to make some changes.
Of course your daughter has to learn the value of failure. Without it, she would never develop resilience. Surveys show that many of today's children, when they hit the workforce, have plenty of knowledge but poor problem-solving skills and not much resilience. That's because they have been pressured to achieve and protected from failure most of their lives.
So how do we teach your daughter that failure is ok? Not by lecturing! One way is through role modeling. Tell her about the failures in your life, past and current. You might also want to say what failure feels like and what it meant to you when you were younger and what failure means to you now.
Perfectionists often feel as though no one understands them, so don't try to talk your daughter out of her feelings; it will just make her feel more isolated. Instead, help her give voice to the emotions underneath her thoughts about being a failure.
Remember, the fear of failure is about avoiding fear more than failure. Usually when children voice fear, we help them avoid it. But imagine the sense of freedom if she could give voice to her fear, and you could help her learn to tolerate that fear. And then when she does fail, you can talk about how she might feel badly, but she has less to be afraid of.Here's the big opportunity. Your daughter needs role models for hanging out and having fun.
Everyone in the family has to be able to relax and laugh at themselves. Laughter is like chicken soup for perfectionism. An early supervisor once said that the world is full of people trying to act like filet mignon when we know deep down we are meatballs! We need to stop trying to be the person we think we should be and spend more time hanging out with people we love.
Q: Hello:
As a child of divorce in 1961 I read with great interest the article from the grandmother looking for support.
My brother and I also did not want to sleep at our father's, but would gladly sleep at our grandparents. Our grandparents offered security and unconditional love that we did not find with our father.
For a father to have the attitude that his 8 year old should 'learn to cope' is a horrible way to deal with the trauma of divorce. This poor kid is dealing with enough right now.
I was wondering why you didn't suggest the father get counseling or an attitude adjustment. And why hasn't anyone asked this child why he doesn't want to sleep at his dads?
For the statistics I fall into the 75% and my brother falls into the 25%.
Sherri
Philadelphia, PA
Although divorce harms all children, according to the American Association for marriage and family therapy, only 25% of children of divorce have serious long-term emotional difficulties.
Dan will talk with Child Psychiatrist Mary Ann Ager about the impact of divorce on children before opening the chat up to all.
Dear concerned husband,
Sometimes marital problems are mostly because of one person. Sometimes, but not often. Certainly this is the case with the abuse or violence where one spouse feels unsafe in the matter. If you haven't harmed her physically or psychologically, nevertheless If your behavior is so irritating to your wife that she will not go into therapy until you have done some work, so be it.
On the other hand, if she is willing to go into therapy with you, I would recommend that. Very often in marital therapy I have one spouse working for an entire session, sometimes two or more on their issues. That way the observing spouse can get to see and understand you from a different perspective. Because after all, the goal is not just behavior change, the goal is mutual respect and understanding. I am sure your wife would also benefit from talking to a therapist about her marriage with you sitting in the room. It would help you understand the impact of your behavior beyond her surface reaction.
I hope that helps
Dear Doctor Dan,
I am a faithful reader of all things Gottlieb, so I am hoping you could advise me about some distressing issues in my life.
How can I go about helping my daughter find a therapist for my grandchildren who are ages eight and five? Their parents recently divorced and the older child is having real problems with sleeping overnight at his dad's house. He says he is ok with spending time with daddy but does not want to stay away from home. He has no trouble sleeping overnight at my house but has done that since birth quite a lot.
My daughter says that her ex tells her that the child "has to learn to cope" and that is what they have been doing. I think it will take a matter of time and will resolve itself, but I also think they could use some counseling to deal with this issue and other divorce related things.
Can you guide me so that I may guide her in steps to find a compatible counselor
Thank you
concerned grandmother
dear concerned,
Your letter brings up several issues, so let's talk first about what needs to be done and then we can talk about what you can and cannot do to help make it happen.
Although divorce harms all children, according to the American Association for marriage and family therapy, only 25% of children of divorce have serious long-term emotional difficulties. Although this is a very high percentage, keep in mind there is a good chance your grandchildren will be okay without intervention.
But there are many things parents can do to help mitigate the effects of divorce. The first and most important issue is safety. All children need safety in the wake of this upheaval, but especially young children. And children find safety in consistency and predictability. Much as possible, schedules should remain the same week in and week out, especially in the months following a divorce.
Most children of divorce feel that the bottom has just dropped out of their lives and that everything they knew to be true is no longer true. So your grandchildren need to be reassured with words and actions that they are loved by both parents and both will take good care of them. So both parents must be very careful not to cancel plans and to show respect to one another in front of the children.
I often tell divorced parents that they must love their children more than they hate each other. Therefore they must develop a workable plan that gives children easy access to both parents. And of course, no parent should never ever speak angrily about their child's other parent. At best, it sets up a loyalty conflict for the children. And worst, children feel they have lost both parents.
Believe it or not, I would not recommend counseling unless they are showing signs of distress. Signs to look for include
· acting younger than their chronological ag
· moodiness
· sleep difficulties
· acting out in ways they hadn't before
· problems with friends or school
· irrational fears and compulsive behavior.
Many children of divorce will show some of these symptoms in the short run, but if they persist, it's time to seek help. But I wouldn't automatically seek counseling and here's why: children of divorce already feel pretty alone and wonder if there is something wrong with them which may have broken up the family. If they are "sent" to therapy, the process itself could reinforce that belief. I believe that if younger children of divorce need therapy, it should be family therapy unless there is a compelling reason not to.
Finding a therapist? Make sure the therapist is trained in marital and family therapy. But even so, not all family therapists are trained in working with small children, so you need both. You should be able to find one in your community through the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy. Alternatively you could look up your State Psychological Association or National Association of Social Workers. But please make sure whatever therapist you find is trained in both divorce and working with young children.
So now we come to you and what you can do. First, divorce is a trauma not just for parents and children, but for grandparents also. Just like your grandchildren, you may have gone through these years thinking that your children and grandchildren were safe and secure. And now this. I have spoken with so many grandparents of divorce children whose hearts are broken by what's happening to their children and grandchildren. It feels the stakes are so high and you feel so powerless.
I will assume you have a good relationship with your daughter, but it's also important that you maintain at least a respectful relationship with your son-in-law and avoid criticism or blame. If your daughter wants to do so, listen to her with compassion and empathy, but please try not to reinforce her resentment or help her feel like a victim. As I am sure you know, if you were to get in the middle, the outcome is never good. I've talked before on these pages about how and when to offer advice to our adult children, when it's respectful and when it is intrusive. And I have said that within very broad limits, we have to respect the resilience and problem solving skills of our adult children. But when grandchildren are involved, it gets more complicated.
Feel free to tell her about your concerns, but please don't push as your daughter feels vulnerable enough. Offer to be an additional resource for your daughter, grandsons and even your son-in-law. If you are able, spend extra time with the children it might help everyone out. And perhaps you could even include the other set of grandparents in some of the social activities. It would certainly make the children feel better.I hope this helps and I wish everyone healing.
Dear Dr. Gottlieb
I have just learned that a person with whom I was very close in years past (I was maid of honor in her wedding MANY years ago) has had an accident resulting in a spinal cord injury, the loss of her mobility, and as a result the loss of a career in which she was both successful and reknown.
I have been assured by a mutual friend that she would love to hear from me, and I am anxious to get in touch with her. I had actually sought her out in order to tell her about the death last week of our mentor.
I am wondering what I should say to her regarding her injury. She was an accomplished musician and teacher, who, I understand is now confined to bed or a wheelchair, with an assistant to help her with feeding, washing, etc. I want to express my concern but do not want to pry. I want to support her without seeming to condescend. From your unique perspective, perhaps you could help me handle this situation in a manner that will not cause any undue hurt.
I thank you for your time and your wisdom.
A concerned friend
Dear concerned friend
At the risk of sounding self-serving, please pick up a copy of my latest book "Learning from the Heart" in which I describe (I believe in the first chapter) my experience of people coming to my hospital room. But here is the summary: don't forget she is a good friend first and foremost. Second, don't try to hide your feelings. If you feel sad, confused, or just want to cry, that's okay. If you pretend you feel one way and you really don't, she will know that and feel more alienated.
It's okay to ask her what this is all like for her. It's okay to cry with her and it's okay to do nothing because there is nothing you can do to rescue her from her pain. But having the courage to simply be with her in her suffering is a great gift.
Q&A with Dan Gottlieb
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