Why I Don't Favor 'Exfolesiating' the Eagles
The Philadelphia Daily News - Eagletarian
Why I Don't Favor 'Exfolesiating' the Eagles
Les Bowen, Daily News Staff Writer
I've gotten a few emails protesting that the furor over the Eagles bringing back Michael Vick for a year is overblown, that behind a horrible offensive line in 2012, Vick really wasn't all that terrible.
True, sure, as far as it goes. There are two reasons for the widespread dismay: Vick's concussion-marred, turnover-plagued 2012 followed a very similar 2011, behind a much better offensive line (the excuse then was the lockout), so most of us figured we had seen pretty much all we needed to see of the soon-to-be-33-year-old QB, and, maybe more significant, bringing back Vick means Chip Kelly can't be all that enthused about giving Nick Foles a year to see what he can do.
It's easy to say, "well, Foles doesn't move well, so he can't run Kelly's offense," and consign Foles to the dustbin. It sure looks like that is what is happening, although offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur talked Monday about an approach flexible enough to encompass the talents of both Vick and Foles.
A few weeks ago, Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com crunched some numbers on Foles' rookie season. Roob found that Foles' 60.8 percent completion percentage is fifth in NFL history among rookie QBs, behind some pretty notable figures -- Ben Roethlisberger, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan. Foles' average of 243 yards passing a game ranks third all-time, behind Andrew Luck and Cam Newton, neither of whom completed 60 percent of their passes as a rookie. Thus, Foles is the only NFL rookie, ever, to average more than 240 yards while completing at least 60 percent of his passes. (You could argue that Marc Bulger did this with the Rams in 2002, but he was not technically a rookie, having been on the roster behind Kurt Warner for two years, not playing.)
Foles threw an interception once every 53 attempts. In NFL history, only one rookie QB has had a better ratio, RGIII last season, one every 78.6 atempts.
So, since last time I looked, no quarterback ever won the Super Bowl with his feet, I was kinda looking forward to seeing what Foles could do this season. Am I certain he is a franchise QB? No. That's where the "this season" part comes in. I don't think the Eagles are winning the Super Bowl this year, whether Foles, Vick, Norm Van Brocklin or Peyton Manning is the QB. If Vick somehow manages to play, say, 14 games (you know he isn't playing 16), maybe they can go 8-8, if lots of other stuff falls into place.
Big whoop. Say you go 8-8, then what? Are you positioned to draft a franchise QB in 2014? Almost certainly not. Have you built anything for the future with Vick at the helm? Absolutely not.
I don't know Kelly well, obviously, but many of the "competitions" for a starting positiion I've seen that involved a guy making at least $7.5 million a year and a guy making $500,000 have been suspiciously weighted in one direction. The Eagles aren't paying Vick a $3.5 million signing bonus this April to trade him, or even to have him watch Foles from the sideline.
But if the Eagles don't trade Foles, and don't draft a franchise QB, maybe all Foles has to do is wait for Vick to eventually get hurt to get the chance Foles should be getting, right from the get-go, to show he is the guy.
Trading Foles at this point could be a huge mistake, unless you were getting back, say, a high second-round pick. I would guess there will be teams asking; plenty of people in the NFL understand that Super Bowls tend to be won with a quarterback's arm and head, not with his feet.
Comments (113)
Good article. If given the choice to only have one of the two, I would choose Foles. He makes quick decisions under pressure (he had an awful O-line at Arizona, too) and is a warrior. Vick still has his warp speed and rocket of an arm, but holds the ball too long and forces passes too often.
My prediction is that Vick will play pretty well until he gets injured in the fourth or fifth game, then Foles takes over and the franchise never looks back.— Argh27- Totally agree, Les.— dasher
- I couldn't agree more with this column. And let's not forget that Foles set those impressive rookie marks behind the same injury-riddled O-line that Vick supporters use as an excuse for Vick's poor play last season. Going with Vick at QB ultimately will get us nowhere. Giving Foles a shot behind a healthy O-line may just give us a view of a winning future.— Squizzy Magee
- The Eagles missed a great opportunity to prove that the Andy Reid era is truly over. It's going to be a bigger let down if Vick comes out and performs poorly than if they went with Foles or Dennis Dixon and those younger players went through some growing pains in a new system. Vick is too old and too injury prone to be putting up excuses. "It was the lockout." (A lot of QB's set records that year.) "It was the o-line." (The o-line was good in 2011 and Vick was still lousy.) Next year it will be, "Well, it was a new system he needed to learn." The guy is 33 years old and he hasn't learned how to play in the NFL yet. At what point do you get over the dazzling parts and realize he's not an NFL quarterback?— phillyplease
If there's a common theme between Super Bowl Winners, it's that their quarterbacks are Competent Pocket Passers. I'm tired of the running quarterback sets - once the QB gets figured out or hurt, the system is ruined. Look at the last 10 SB winning quarterbacks - none of them were runners:
2013 - Flacco - Passer
2012 - Eli - Passer
2011 - Aaron Rodgers - Passer
2010 - Drew Brees - Passer
2009 - Roethlisberger - Passer
2008 - Eli - Passer
2007 - Peyton - Passer
2006 - Roethlisberger - Passer
2005 - Brady - Passer
2004 - Brady - Passer
2003 - Johnson - meh (passer that year)
2002 - Brady - passer
2001 - Dilfer (Meh)
2000 - Kurt Warner - passer
Please don't waste another several years of our lives with a system that will fail. Just give us a balanced offense, a competent pocket passer, fix the defense and we'll have a chance. I'm not saying that Nick Foles will be that answer, but based on his time with a team that quit last year, I'd like to see him as a starter.
— dpcoz- Nice piece of work coz. One problem however. The Eagles just hired a HC who puts a premium on having a mobile QB. Foles is just not a long term fit with the offense that Chipper runs. I think that Chipper will give you the balanced offense that you want. BUT, a significant part of the run game will come from the QB. Something you absolutely won't get from Foles. I think his plan is to get his QB of the future (Johhny Football, Bridgewater, whoever) in April 2014 when Vick helps Chipper secure the first pick in the 2014 draft. — BP2
- Thank you dpcoz. A pocket passer has the won the Super Bowl in every single contest over the course of NFL history. In other words, a running QB has NEVER won a Super Bowl in NFL history. Not even Frank Tarkenton.
Between Cunningham/McNabb/Vick, the Eagles have featured a running QB for the last quarter century.
You may want not want to believe these comments, but they are alarmingly true and alarmingly indicative of how poorly run and poorly managed this Eagles franchise is.— bdd5014 - All these excuses for Vick. Here's the fact: he was never a good QB to begin with and he's not going to get better. He can NOT read a defense!— Charburger
- "My prediction is that Vick will play pretty well until he gets injured in the fourth or fifth game, then Foles takes over and the franchise never looks back."
This is my issue with this whole Vick deal. Do we as fans really have to go through that above scenario......AGAIN!!! I mean really, please dont torture us anymore. The salaries mentioned is also a great point, which leads so many to be absolutely disgusted with Chip Kelly already in his first month on the job. Disappointing all around. And to hear Vick fans say how horrible Foles is, meanwhile Foles looked better (not great for sure) than Vick under same circumstances. Throw in dpcoz comment and I dont know how anyone gets excited to rehash the same losing formula. Infuriating is more like it.— peteike - Let's see. Foles' NFL career is 1 win out of 5 games. He has just one more TD than INT. Percentage of NFL seasons he finished without being on injured reserve: 0%.
There is a lot of wishful thinking here.— Joe Seligkeit - watch out the real eagles fans will tell you foles is a joke and he sucks and is in no way better than their hero vick. let the reverse racism commence.— defroe
- I think Michael Vick gets too harsh a rap for his play last season because while it's true Vick had to operate behind the same line as Foles, what isn't true is that Foles played behind the line WHEN those guys were injured. Those first few weeks after the center got hurt were just ridiculous.
I know Foles played fairly well, especially for a rookie. And yes, with the available talent likely to put the Eagles at 8-8 at best, like Les Bowen says, there are numerous reasons to start Foles.
But then, I revert back to this: If Chip Kelly is truly worth all the cash he's getting, then just look at this division: RGIII injured. Dallas getting older and slower. The Giants clearly slowing down.
In other words, if you know you can get to 8-8 with Vick, then I can see why you go with him...because if you can steal one more win, maybe two, then you just might win the division.
Again, I can see the argument for keeping Foles. But if Chip Kelly thinks Vick gives him the best chance to win this season, I'm sorry, then that's what you do. The NFL...any year you can make the playoffs, you do it. The NFC East is down right now. If you think you can win it, then you go with the guys who you think give you the best chance to do that.— FlyerBacker88 - About 7 or 8 years ago, Kelly ran his offense at the Univ. of New Hampshire with a QB named Santos, who had a very similar skill set as Nick Foles. Santos won the Division I-AA player of the year award(same award Brian Westbrook won at Villanova) running the Kelly offense. Can't wait to see Foles running the offense this year. Vick is here for insurance, competition, talented camp body, until other candidates can be accumulated.— tommy_the_k
- that same awful offensive line in 2012 was ranked the second best in the league by Profootball focus in 2011. If peters, Kelce and Herrimans return healthy and they find someone for either RG or RT, It would be interesting to see what they would give Foles in 2013.— dpcoz
- Only thing i did not like about this writing.Is Vick gets too much credit.Vick should be shipped out of town.Out of sight,out of mind.All the writers in Philly and media will have to say nice things about Vick.Like he became this new guy in Philly.— bill the pill
- it seems that " Time's yours " in being replaced by " His skill set ". Watch out Chip, the coach killer has you right where he wants you.— Pineapple Betafish
- I feel like I am reading a shampoo bottle (lather, rinse, repeat)... Vick does not have the smarts to be a winning QB in this league. In the past he was able to compensate with his athletic ability, but since he is getting older, that doesn't work anymore. If we trying running the read option offense with Vick, he will just tuck it an run since he cant read a defense. We need to go with Foles for the year, see what we have .— CT Flyers fan
- What NFL team wants Foles? I know Philly haters do, but who won more games in 2012, Foles or Vick? YOU PLAY THE GAME TO WIN! Foles is a great kid but is nowhere near ready to win as a pro and he didn't win in college. Get over this idea of "any white QB will do" and support all Eagle team members.— lbg
- ibg is the best he wants us to support vick but would never support foles. IBG for president!— defroe
- Foles is not the 2nd coming of Peyton, but if he wore a blindfold, he could read a defense better and more quickly than Vick, and THAT matters in Kelly's scheme— DONDEN31
- Vick will turn the ball over at least 20 times. Can you win with that? The fact is that there is a ZERO percent chance he lasts even 10 games so I take the whole thing with a grain of salt. It was a disastrous decision to bring in Kelly. Trading Foles would be even dumber since when Kelly gets fired after two seasons, he will still be young.— UncleStosh
- I guess the optimistic take on this is that the team has two controllable assets at the most important position (QB), so let's stabilize that as much as we can right now and go from there. All other options (draft, Alex Smith, other FAs) are unknowns and/or come with even bigger costs (Smith). Kelley already knows he's going to have to adapt the offense, so it looks like he's going to have to come into camp with two versions. One suited to whatever's left of Vick's mobility and one built around Foles' skills. Given those two imperfect options, we might be in for some interesting stuff in the run game -- Shady's in his prime, you like the possibilities with Bryce Brown. You start moving the ball on the ground, any quarterback gets instantly much better. This season, I'd settle for something interesting to watch and a top 5 draft pick.— wmichael
- The Eagles have a better chance of getting the first pick in the draft with Vick at QB than with Foles at QB. Vick is a stiff. He can't make quick--or good--decisions and he turns the ball over as a result. I hope they hold on to Foles but I sort of want them to play Vick so the team can sufficiently suck to get a high draft pick. Their Cleveland Browns defense should help with that too.— Bartleby
- What you wrote is precisely what I think that Chipper is planning. The STICK WITH VICK strategy will get him (Chipper) the first pick in the 2014 draft so that he can select the QB (Manzeil, Bridgewater, whoever) he wants to run his offense for the long term. — BP2
- Great article! Hopefully Vick is just here as an insurance policy & training camp competition. Foles can run the spread offense, he isn't going to run the ball but neither does Brady! Seattle went with young QB after spending lots of FA $$ on a QB....do the right thing Chip GO WITH FOLES!— ChangeISNeeded
- "Straw Man" argument Les.
I don't see any calls for trading Foles nor any inclination from the Eagles to do so. What I do read is that Kelly has stated that he was quite impressed with Foles when Kelly's Oregon team faced him.
Why stir up emotions with baseless speculation? Slow day at the computer?
— FishFryFrank - Foles should fire his agent. He's simply wasting money. With all the lobbying and cajoling the local media is doing on his behalf, who needs an agent? What a pathetic display. I have to ask, has a 1-6 record ever garnered so much support in the history of the NFL? Only in Philadelphia.— JLH
- Anyone who thinks Foles has done enough to warrant a "high" second round pick is just drinking far too much. He hasn't proven a thing.— JBinPA
- I can't agree with the people who say Vick shouldn't be retained because the Birds may win more games & thus, knock themselves out of contention for a franchise QB in '14. If a coach wants his players to do everything they can to win every day, then he must do the same.
If that's what Kelly really thinks, then he's doing the right thing. Having watched Vick for 3 years, he's shown himself to be a better man than I thought, but a worse QB. Vick has shown he is not "the guy". I don't know if Foles can be "the guy", but I don't think he's shown he CAN'T be the guy.— yobill626 - To me it is obvious that if Kelly is planning on using Vick, it is only for the purpose of preparing "the rest of the team" for the future. Kelly wants his offense to play a certain way and Vick is better suited to play that way.
Maybe it's me but I think the Eagles offense used to work pretty well. That's why I would have gone with Gus Bradley as my coach and built up the offensive line. With Bradley, the defense would have improved and with a strong line the Eagles could have passed and ran their way toward success. Foles showed enough to convince me that he had as much potential as any other rookie playing with an atrocious offensive line.— LasVegasScott - Chip doesn't want him, so Howie will trade him to KC for their 5th rd pick! Howie will then turn that pick into two 6th and two 7th rounders. Let's hope Rosebud has learned his lesson regarding "Quantity over Quality"!— cooperhawk
the O line needs depth, talent YES. keep Foles, he seemed OK. at least he seemed smart and made pretty quick decisions. Vick is better at running, but patience for pass routes suffers. but again, have to agree about protection break downs. THAT WAS REID's fault... AND Marty, imo. call a better game to alleviate that. it just continued, got worse... coaches had no answers, no consistency. and that's been going pn more than last year. i think reid's personal problems and wearing too many hats caught up to him. wish him the best in kc, but glad there was a change.— tfcino1- Just as no one knew who was actually doing the drafting, the Vick re-signing smells alot like Lurie and baby howie wanting national media attention than Kelly wanting a QB.
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— Quixote II - TRULY only one choice this year for QB and that is FOles.....Kelly should have cut him and see what he has this year with Nick. Good point that if in fact Vick somehow lasts 16 games and goes at best 8-8 so what do you do next year.....go with a 35 year old vick....makes ZERO sense.
— RealizticFan - It never ceases to amaze me how some fans, and coaches can be so enamored of the "athletic" "running" quarterbacks given their history for not being winners. A previous post listed the Super Bowl winning QB's from the last 10 years. Beyond that, look at the QBs who are thought of as the most successful, i.e. the ones who have won the most Super Bowls: Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, Brady, et. al. Beyond that look at other successful QBs who didn't win as many Super Bowls: Elway, Marino, etc... All pocket passers. Look at the history of Eagles QBs, all "athletic" runners: Cunningham, McNabb (when he was younger), Vick. You can go all the way back to the original scrambler, Fran Tarkenton. Not a Super Bowl among them. That is why I am disappointed to see Vick coming back and not seeing what Foles can do. Foles fits the mold of the winning quarterbacks.— StevenDavid
- I must be taking crazy pills. Foles will NEVER be the guy in a Chip Kelly offense! The Eagles FO would never have hired Kelly if they had any vision of Foles leading this team. Why are we talking about Foles as though he is relevant to the ongoing fortunes of this team in anything other than a "if disaster strikes" situation? If we had hired a Bill Cowher, a Mike McCoy, then perhaps. If we could get a third round pick for Foles (no chance) than we should absolutely take it. Vick has one year to show he can conduct this particular orchestra, and they absolutely made the right decision to give him that based on their options. Speaking of Vick, any other guy would at least be appreciated for his consistently tenacious effort on the field and his willingness to restructure for the team. Remember -- Marty and Reid are now the problems of other extraordinarily unfortunate franchises. Look for Kelly to engineer a fairly dynamic offense with Vick in the short-term and find his Kaepernick, Wilson, RG3 in the next couple years for the longer haul.— auntesther
- again....yes the o-line was better in 2011 but they tried to make Vick stay in the pockets and he was not able to play his style...... Vick is not a pocket passer. Hes not the greatest but hwe will be much better in the Kelly scheme more to the form he was prior to eagles awarding him the big contract when they changed his play— kidrocco
- Thank you Les Bowen for providing a common sense reality check to the Vick resigning. The 2013 will be a complete and utter waste with Vick at the helm. I won't watch one game if he's announced as the starter.— bdd5014
- Great point Quixote, I was thinking same thing, maybe Lurie like the Vick attraction aspect. As seen on this sight and espn comment boards, there is a legion of foolish fans who idolize Vick for reason unkown since his track record flat out stinks, yet they continually want him to get another shot. Well, its always everything else surrounding Vick thats the problem, not Vicks actual QB skills. "Their Cleveland Browns defense should help with that too." best line in a long time, had me laughing Bartleby.— peteike
- THERE IS NO ONE ON THIS TEAM THAT IS NOT TRADEABLE OR CUTABLE.......If they were any dam good, we would not have been so stinking bad.....and if foles is so dam good that AR would make him the QB of the future...then trade him to KC for a 5th or 6th round pick.....with what we have, a 5th, 6th or 7th round college pick has more upside than the drek on this squad.....— nuggett
- Hiring Chip Kelly was a mistake. We could have Gus Bradley as our coach, and Nick Foles as our QB. Our defense would have been more solid, and we wouldn't be scratching our heads how to make this gimmick offense work with a fragile and aging turnover machine QB.
Finding an efficient run-option QB is very rare for the NFL, but this is what is necessary for Kelly's offense to work. When this experiment blows up in Jeffrie and Howie's faces, get ready for a ton of excuses.— EmanuelP - From the records Les brought up in the article to the history of super bowl winning quarterbacks, it's pretty obvious that Foles should be the starter moving forward.
That's exactly why he has no chance with the Eagles. They are WAY TO SMART to ever make the obvious decision. And that's been working so well for them.— atb124 - Vick wins the (heavily stacked) competition for the starting job, goes down for the season with an injury in game 1 or 2. We will see a lot of Foles next year, and I think he will do very well.— Dickie34
- If the 2012 draft had a do over, I would pick Foles around #25, one slot behind where Aaron Rodgers went (who would go number one in a do-over of his year). It's way too early to say anything more than that. Based on his rookie season, he is the best quarterback available in the NFL or draft, the most likely guy to become an Eli Manning or Joe Flacco. We'll know more in a couple years, if the Eagles are smart enough to start him for 16 games this year.
There is no benefit to starting Mike Vick -- it won't even get more wins.
Foles had his pretty good rookie year behind one of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen.— armchairGM - This comment is just bizarre in its overestimation of Nick Foles. The idea that Foles at QB makes this team more competitive is obnoxious because while this team was disappointing before he stood under center last year, they were downright uncompetitive after he stepped in. Like everyone else I thought that Vick's Eagle career was over when he went down and Foles got the start. So I was looking hard to see if he had the goods to be there in the future. But despite Bowen's misleading stats, Foles didn't really show much. He's stiff inside the pocket, and totally immobile outside it. When he does have time, he showed mediocre accuracy -- terrible on throws down the field. When he feels pressure, he shuffles backward and throws floaters off his back foot. He has a better chance of winning the Hawaii Pipeline Surfing Championship than he does of taking this team where it needs to go. He's a poor man's Brandon Weedon, for the love of God! — auntesther
- those crunched numbers are BS and COMPLETELY MISLEADING. foles is garbage and the only people who can't see it are the vick haters. vick is not the longg term answer for this team by any chance but i would rather have him behind the line than some trash bag from this crappy draft class or baby arm foles— AlexSp
- 1. Please stop with "A Mobile QB will never win the Super Bowl." Steve Young already did, twice. In NFL history, there haven't been many QBs more mobile than Young. By the way, Colin Kaepernick, a 2nd year QB with only 10 starts to his name (including 3 post-season games) was NOT playing special teams when the 49ers gave up the critical KR touchdown. That guy almost brought his team all of the way back... with only 10 full games of experience (total, including the Super Bowl). Are you seriously going to bet against him leading the 49ers to an eventual Super Bowl victory? Are you betting against Russell Wilson and the Seahawks?
2. Michael Vick is NOT the mobile QB who will win the Eagles a Super Bowl. Sure, Steve Young did, Colin Kaepernick almost did, and RGIII or Russell Wilson might win one in the future - they are all better passers than Michael Vick. Michael Vick is to Chip Kelly what Doug Pederson was to Andy Reid - a stopgap. You don't take a 33 year-old QB with a long history of injury (whose play has been on the decline for the last two years) and decide that he's your future franchise QB. Chip Kelly and the Eagles will do with Mike Vick what Mike Shanahan and the Redskins did with Donovan McNabb - see what they can get out of him and dump him after one season if he's not working out (or if they can get the QB that they really want).
3. Just because Vick is PROJECTED to win the starting job doesn't mean that he will... or that he will keep it. Kevin Kolb was projected to be the starter for the Eagles in 2010 - with the signing bonus alone of over $10 million. Vick, who was paid as a backup at the time ended up winning the job. Ultimately, head coaches like playing winning football more than they like playing the guy with the highest salary.— knighn - Um, yeah you are completely ignorant. Steve Young won one Super Bowl, not two. And to say that Steve Young was a mobile QB is ignorant to the labeling. Steve Young was a pocket passer who could also use his feet; like Elway. Vick is not that nor was Cunningham,etc. RGIII and Kaepernick have the ability to maybe someday transcend the label mobile QB label. Mobile QB is a term used for someone who uses their legs more than their arm to make plays. Young and Elway were not even close to that. Get a clue... — greenblood4200
- The fact that Steve Young had some mobility did not make people think of him as a "running" quarterback. A QB that has an innate sense and feel for what is going on around him and can sidestep pressure and lengthen the play, and occasionally make a first down with his feet, still doesn't make him a "running" QB. These are qualities that Young did have. And again, qualities that Vick, who does not have a sense of what's going on around him, doesn't have.— StevenDavid
- "Say you go 8-8, then what? Are you positioned to draft a franchise QB in 2014? Almost certainly not."
This year, 8-8 teams will draft 17 and 18. Flacco - 18th overall. Rodgers - 24th overall. Kaepernick - 45th overall. Brady - 199th overall.
Will you guys ever tire of being wrong?
— Section 730 - The knock on Vick in the first paragraph of this article is that he was hindered by the O-line.......he is hindered by his inability to read a defense and get the ball out quickly. Ability is a must, but intelligence is as well. Vick will never win anything because he is a moron. He can not make a decision in time to throw the ball before the receiver turns around and it be there on the numbers. Watch the good Qb's, they all do this. Manning, Rodgers, Brady, Brees. True, I just named the best qb's in the league, but they are guys that carry the team no matter what. Vick cannot and will not win anything, unless he is holding the clipboard. The End.— kozykoz26
- i never saw steve young in the vick mold as a "running qb" i dont think he was thinking about running first every play more like pass first run if he had to. vick just thinks about running. lights out people hardcore football coming to us in 2013 vick will tear it up and prove us all wrong. lights out baby! hopefully not lights out on a stretcher or lights out like when he couldn't see in that dallas game due to the concusion due i think to sliding head first... head first... lights out...— defroe
- I hate the O-Line excuse for Vick... He stinks.. Period!! ... Kelce, Mathis, Herrimans and Peters were all at least alternates for the Pro Bowl in 2011 & Vick was still horrible..— FetchDixon
- It has been said on here many many times. A white QB will never be given a serious opportunity as long as Lurie owns the team. Decades of Philly black QBs is by design not coincidence. Prejudice is wrong from both directions.— Kioto
- I'm in favor of Exfolesiating— dmac6419
- I don't want Vick back either but look at the bright side. No more Andy Reid. Yippee— MWW-54
- Vick should not be here. He is not intelligent enough to make quick decisions. Good article - Foles should be here as starting quarterback. Vick is a waste of time and money.— Foundry Guy
- No where in the article did you fail to mention that he can't throw the ball downfield! Look, I was excited that Foles got to start the last 6 games, but was horrified when he tried to throw the ball downfield. There were times when he had time to throw downfield and the ball was horribly short. He is a cerebral short to mid range passer at best...— Philliefan75inAZ
- Time to boycott this garbage of a team.— donjuango
- Michel Vick has won more than 9 games exactly ONCE. EVER. He has played 16 games ONCE. EVER. He is 2-4 in the playoffs, last winning a game in 2004. He is a career 80.4 QB rating guy. He has only EVER been ADEQUATE at the QB position. All the hype and BS and fun of his running aside, he is barely average at the helm. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how otherwise competent football men keep not seeing this.— GNIKGNARLY
- Who said anything about him being traded? Is this news or a manufactured story?
— JayOfDaJungle - I hate that Vick is still on this team. Period. Chip Kelly will lose a lot of credibility if Vick and his turnovers result in a low draft pick. It really bothers me and makes me dislike Kelly already.— sore richard
- Take a breath. Kelly loves Foles. And you are trying to trade him. Typical Philly BS.— golferhhi
- People, please !! Vick is a Never Was and Foles is a Never Will Be. If you desperate Iggles fans think otherwise, you are dopes, but that's no surprise. Anyone still rooting for this pathetic franchise, 53 years without a title, and led by Ms. Lurie and her pal, Mr. Big Tough Football Man Howie deserves to be mocked. What a bunch of desperate and pathetic fools.— baabyrrej
- Foles got those numbers, but why he couldn't win more games?? Vick moves is good for the Eagles.— fairfan63
- hey klansmen and bigots foles will compete with vick for the starters job if foles is as good as many of you morons here claim(he is slow, just an average arm)he should win the job...as for black qb's who can run not having SB victory's is easy it is called white racism existing on these lands for over 5 centuries, white privelege YOUR way of life/death, brady, manning, brees wish they did have the talent like cunningham, vick, griffin, kaepernick, mcnabb, wilson players who can make things happen when protection breaks down unlike many of the SB winners who will immediately assume the fetal position and hide if they don't have everything working in their offenses..— only 9
- Yea, it's white racism that keeps black QB's from winning the SB. Interesting and intelligent point of view. When things don't go well for blacks, are they EVER responsible? And 5 centuries? — jrzdvl
- If Foles is better then he will win the job,, NO ?? It seems that after watching the films that Chipper came to the same conclusion that EVERYONE ELSE IN AMERICA came to. Nick Foles SUCKS. I keep hearing about rookie records,,HE WON 1 GAME and that was luck. He has NO arm strength, No accuracy,, and no poise. The obvious conclusion to be drawn from recent events is that Chip Kelly saw this and did what was BEST FOR THIS FOOTBALL TEAM. Live with it Philly !!!— phillyroni
- phillyroni, what are you talking about? You certainly seem to have the knack for making things up and exaggeration. Everyone elsein America thinks that Foles sucks? No accuracy? Gee from the letters, the Foles supporters must be from a foreign country and I guess that the second highest completion percentage as a rookie and behind a horrible offensi ve line means that Foles has no accuracy. What in the world are you smoking?— Drumgoole
- Les, this is one of the better articles that you have written. Vick is not the future. He had concussions the last 2 years, and will get hurt running this offense because defenses will be coming right at him as he holds the ball too long. Vick's numbers as an Eagle, 35 games-33 fumbles- 35 interceptions. Being 33 yrs old when the season starts,not someone I want to build my team around.— watsonmr
- I count at least twenty comments on this board that are obsessively focused on Vick's lack of "intelligence." So when Foles got pummeled standing behind that weak line or threw an awful interception, etc, etc, it wasn't because he "wasn't intelligent enough" right? Some of you people will just never manage to get out of your holes, will you?— auntesther
- So are you saying that they are equally stupid? Will you manage to get out of your own hole?
- Hard to believe that the Eagles are going to rest their Super Bowl hopes with Vick. But its ohvious that they feel that Foles isn't the guy (not yet anyway) and the prospects of getting anyone better than Vick by the start of the season aren't very good. As for Trent Edwards, its not "if" he'll be gone before the season starts, its only "when".— SteveS11
- Arrrgh!!! I can't stand that we've turned into the GDMF'in Redskins!! There is absolutely no scenario where keeping Vick another year works out well for us. I hate to admit it, but at this point I'm fully of the opinion that the Chipper is next in line of the Spurrier,Saban line of NCAA coaches who should stay there— rdglbav
- Please..please...please...let's not do the MV gig again. We have played that tune again and again. Each time it has been more like a bad tune, bad notes, poor timing, and he cannot read the music. It is all improv...and his improv is so poor, it is like a first year piano student.— 5thstrretpast
- agree 100% with the article. Vick has one of the best spirals in history. I'd pay money just to watch him pass....but he doesn't have football IQ....and in the ever more complicated NFL....the brain of the QB is ever more important. I think the only thing that would prevent Foles from being a very good QB is that his pass is too weak. Oh if only Foles had Vick's arm. The good news is some NFL qb's developed greater arm strength in their 2nd and 3rd years— murdock101
- I would guess Vick ends up getting traded. Before Kelly "signed him", Eagles were getting nothing for Vick. Now that Vick is "valuable", I can see Kelly trading Vick for a high round draft pick to rebuild offensive line, safety and corners, linebackers.— Eagles1980
- If this idiot new coach and organization start that idiot Vick this season over Foles, who clearly has *a chance* to be a franchise QB because of some stupid college system then they deserve to go 1-15 and be hated by all of us. This isn't rocket science. It's the NFL. All fans of any quality and all good NFL coaches understand the basics of what it takes to be a champion.
I hate to say it, but some of you have been right all along, it appears. The Eagles are always trying so hard to be smarter than everyone else that they miss out on the very very simple concepts that win Super Bowls.
If they start Vick, I am not paying for Sunday Ticket. (Yes, I'm out of market...)— WestonF01 - This pretty much just seals Kelly's fate as a failed, soon to be fired coach. Let him prove me wrong.
I know it's supposed to be an open competition. And maybe it will be. But I agree with Les, that it's an open competition in name only. Kelly has, in his head, given Vick the job already and unless Foles is orders of magnitude better than Vick at practice, he won't get a fair chance until Vick gets injured again.— atb124 - He is a lot uglier than Flacco and has a gun but not the complete cannon that no one but Flacco has, but those 6 foot 6 passes to the receivers are gorgeous vs. Vick. Foles is our guy, it's the NFL— Blue Hens Rule
- I'd rather have Foles and Vick than Foles and...nobody. It's a prudent move in the big picture for next year and we go from there.— CallisonTaylorRojas
- Keeping Vick at $10 Mil is the biggest waste and a terrible start to the post Reid era. Vick checked out after he got his big payday and hasn't refocused since. He's an ego maniac who from what I've seen is a flop on the field and a (i'm being kind) a distraction in the lockerroom. Foles has more ability to read a defense after 6-7 games than Vick does after a 10 year career and Nick wasn't even getting first team snaps in practice until the second half of the season.
This Eagles ownership and General Management team is amature hours at it's worst if they dump a talented young player like Nick Foles.— TellthetruthUSA - I posted on the Eagles board that keeping Vick was to make Foles focus more this offseason. The Eagles only lose 3 million if Vick is cut before the season opener. The poster who remembers Kelly at NH gives me confidence that Foles is the focus of the season. This isn't Andy Reid (I can't think for myself, I took notes from Mike Holmgren to run a team until it's fifth season). Kelly can think on his feet.— PeterGreen
- Looking for some sunshine in all this,it seems like a good percentage of Birds fans are OK with going dark for a year to rebuild and find out what Foles has behind a healthy O line...heck,we've already gone dark.Asking a 32 yr old Mike Vick...the guy who now gets tackled from behind by 300 pound DTs...to "run" the Chip Kelly O as we think we know it...is nutty.— red rock
- Foles has to be here no matter what..even if its until Kelly realizes Vick is a used car salesman with poor decision making on the field..wont take long if Vick is named starter...Foles will be in by 3rd game of season...he has got to stay too many tools that he has, and get soo much better..Vick is who he his..at 33, hes not getting better.— teenwolf
- Agree. It's foolish to dump Foles and draft another young back-up QB.
At least you know some of what you've got in Folse, especially w/ Les's stats here.
— wordsword - COuldn't of said it better myself- great article. I am just hoping that Kelly is playing us all for fools and is trying to make Foles earn the spot rather than just giving it to him. Vick is a carnival act; a sideshow. He will never be succssful in the NFL again; not that he ever really was to begin with. I agree that Foles is no guarantee, but I would rather go w the unknown than the known in this situation...— greenblood4200
- I wasn't defending Michael Vick in my post (if you read it). I was simply stating that a QB who is mobile (like Steve Young, Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick) can win Super Bowls. There is no reason to be afraid of Chip Kelly's preference for QBs who are mobile.
I also stated that I don't think that Michael Vick could ever win a Super Bowl(point #2).
I've said it in other spots: Michael Vick is a stopgap. He's what Doug Pederson was for Andy Reid and the Eagles... and what Donovan McNabb, Rex Grossman and John Beck were for Mike Shanahan and the Redskins. This isn't about Chip Kelly making Michael Vick the franchise QB (thus the pay cut). It's about Kelly needing a QB to run the team until Chip's guy is ready (or until Chip has his guy). There is NO guarantee that Vick even beats out Foles (or other QB) in practice competition. In other words: Vick might not even start one game this season.— knighn - "Offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur talked Monday about an approach flexible enough to encompass the talents of both Vick and Foles. When an offensive coordinator starts talking about using two quarterbacks it's time to fire the offensive coordinator.— Ron
- the media in this city, talk out of both sides of their mouth, baldinger wrote Foles off until he won against tampa, then he was the second coming of Brady, com'on man. Kid is serviceable but those wanting to waste a season should understand that Chip does not want to start with a losing mentality only natural born losers would even think it... a losing mentality is hard to get rid off, so ...— jameslaka
- Its not even slighly racist for me to criticize Vick's performance! Stop apologizing for God's sakes. I'm so sick of hearing that. If I dare criticize Vick like I do all NFL QBs, I'm a racist. *rollyeyes*
I love Warren Moon.
You lose. Vick sucks and this team is out of its mind for keeping him.— WestonF01 - Eagles just signed Dixon to a 2 year deal,,, GOOD BYE NICKY,,, Glad to see you GO !!!!!— phillyroni
- drum,, A foreign country ??? You guys seem to get your facts from ANOTHER PLANET... FANTASYLAND !!!! Nick is talentless— phillyroni
- And you seem to be stuck in 2005. You know when ESPN made out Vick to be something he wasn't and never will be... — greenblood4200
- AND,, the #1 fact for all of you Vick haters is that CHIP DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU,, AND ,,, "YOU" DO NOT COUNT,, AT ALL !!! AT ALL !!! GO CHIP,, GO MIKE VICK. nuff said....— phillyroni
- You sound like such a simpleton. You literally sound like a five year old. Put down the crayons and Grow up my man...BTW, I guess you are a fair weather fan since you don't support Foles...right? — greenblood4200
I'm going to wait up until the draft. If the Eagles can get a decent pick for Foles, go for it. If not, let's see what training camp shows.— verve- I'm not a Vick hater, I'm an incompetent hater. That's it and nothing more. He's always been all sizzle and no steak and if Kelly runs with this dude and gets fired in a year or two Jim Mora will chuckle once again. Reid down, Kelly to follow...— WestonF01
- Everyone assumes that Vick will make the roster opening day. Bet Foles will start opening day with a offense run very similar to what NE runs. No huddle, hurry up that Foles can excel at. Dixon will come in for a change of pace to run the pistol, aka single wing. The ultimate Chip Kelly QB is not on today's roster, wait until next year either through the draft or free agency this year or next. In the meantime Eagles need to build a physical nasty defense. Despite looking at a couple forthcoming losing seasons the fans need to latch on to something positive.— phillyfan1230
- Since you fair weather Vick bashing fans want something to blame then blame the whole team not just him. Since you guys are talking about 2011 he sucked lets look at the stats of his losses:ATL 19/28 2td 1int 242 yds 31-21 in the 4 quarter: culprit defense, jeremy maclin dropped pass. NYG 16-14 4 quarter: whole team effort. SF 30/46 416 yds passing winning 23-3 in by end of 3rd quarter: culprit defense, jeremy maclin fumbled, brown fumbled. Buffalo 26/40 315 yds passing 2tds 4int down 24-31 jason avant gets stripped after pass game over, Mc Coy had 11 carries.Chi 21/38 213 yds up 24-17 in 3rd quarter culprit: defense ARI 16/34 128 yards 2int one of his worst games winning 17-14 with 5 min left culprit: whole team. Lets go by the stats, I will bring up 2012 later on and 80% of Nick Foles passes being short intermediate passes.
— fromatl2philly - This could the the dumbest post in human history.How is not liking Vick, who is a turnover machine and a dunderhead, equate to being a fairweather fan?!? Love all your excuse for your homie...pathetic — greenblood4200
- I'm no fair weather fan kiddo, I've been an Eagles fan for more than 30 years. Vick sucks, he always has, he's always been all flash and no substance, and always will be that QB. Yes, the whole team sucked. No one is denying your trip down nightmare lane, trust me. Its just the leader of the suckage is obvious to all but the Vick apologists and the white people that want to feel better than everyone else by accusing anyone that dislikes Vick of racism.
Keep Nicky. Even if its just for one more year.— WestonF01 - What has Nick proved a 1-5 record 6 touchdowns 5 interceptions 7 fumbles 3 lost — fromatl2philly
- ABout as much as Vick..and FOles was a rookie. Get a clue and stop sniffing VIck's jock from 2005...you probably get your sports info from ESPN...right? — greenblood4200
- Haters would rather lose every game than to support a Black QB. If Foles was great he would have started last year. He is not. He is still learning to be a pro bowl QB and Vick is his teacher. Let Foles go somewhere he will play. He will only carry a clip board in Philly. Birds have two QBs that are much better and have won more games in their football lives.— lbg
- Your comment is completely disgusting on all levels. If you think most people that don't like Vick because he is black, and not he fact he is completely clueless and a turnover machine, you are the biggot. If you think Vick is somehowgoing to turn the hands of time back to 2005 you are a pinhead...Funny, if Warren Moon in his prime was my QB I would be ecstastic! I guess your pea brain can't digest the concept that people are sick of the running QB in this town. If it was Tebow most of them would feel the same way. WE are sick of watching chuck and duck and want a QB that can actually read a defense. Funny, how all you anti-white biggots throw out Foles numbers and compare them to Vick. Do you realize how pathetic that is? FOLES WAS A ROOKIE. VICK HAS BEEN A "QB" FOR OVER A DECADE. Vick should be better and he wasn't...get a life — greenblood4200
- This information seems a little slanted to complete a narrative. Fact of the matters, in the 7 games Foles started, he threw 6 TDs, he also threw 5 Ints, and had 8 Fumbles, 2 he recovered, and 3 the Eagles Offense recovered. So Foles managed a grand total of 7 Scores and 8 Turnovers.
This guy is asking Kelly, with Foles as his Quarterback to abandon his offense. There is not a team in the NFL who would not wish on an option play for Foles to keep the ball. That's pretty much a play off for the defense.
Foles has shown he has problems holding on to the ball. And he's not so accurate with the long ball and out patterns. The ineffectiveness with the bomb removes some of the danger DJax brings onto the field.
Foles is a better WCO Quarterback. This reporter is asking Kelly to abandon his Offense, to pick up where Andy Reid left off.— Dexter - I think the Eagles should trade Foles, but not for reasons you might think. I think Foles has the potential to develop in to a good QB, but not under Kelly's system. I like Foles and it would be good for him to get away from the Eagles chaotic situation. Of course I am not sure going to Reid would be a great move, but maybe Reid has learned from his Philly experience and is ready to develop a game plan around a pocket passer. As for the Eagles they now have Vick and Dixon to lead them to the promised land.LOLOLOLOL— obergruber
- If he gets a haircut, he can stay.— Relocator
- Foles played half the season. I bet his stats would have evened out if he had more chances to be a rookie. Also, saying he thew 1 INT every 53 attempts does not take into account his 6:5 TD:INT ratio. Foles is years away from being anything relevant. Stop being blind people. Vick is our QB.— switzerman
- blogs are stupid. what a waste of my time— goofyfooterwill
- what difference do bloggers make?— goofyfooterwill
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Eagletarian is your home for comprehensive coverage of the Philadelphia Eagles.
Les Bowen
Daily News Staff Writer
Paul Domowitch
Daily News NFL Columnist
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