Why I Don't Favor 'Exfolesiating' the Eagles
The Philadelphia Daily News - Eagletarian
Why I Don't Favor 'Exfolesiating' the Eagles
Les Bowen, Daily News Staff Writer
I've gotten a few emails protesting that the furor over the Eagles bringing back Michael Vick for a year is overblown, that behind a horrible offensive line in 2012, Vick really wasn't all that terrible.
True, sure, as far as it goes. There are two reasons for the widespread dismay: Vick's concussion-marred, turnover-plagued 2012 followed a very similar 2011, behind a much better offensive line (the excuse then was the lockout), so most of us figured we had seen pretty much all we needed to see of the soon-to-be-33-year-old QB, and, maybe more significant, bringing back Vick means Chip Kelly can't be all that enthused about giving Nick Foles a year to see what he can do.
It's easy to say, "well, Foles doesn't move well, so he can't run Kelly's offense," and consign Foles to the dustbin. It sure looks like that is what is happening, although offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur talked Monday about an approach flexible enough to encompass the talents of both Vick and Foles.
A few weeks ago, Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com crunched some numbers on Foles' rookie season. Roob found that Foles' 60.8 percent completion percentage is fifth in NFL history among rookie QBs, behind some pretty notable figures -- Ben Roethlisberger, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan. Foles' average of 243 yards passing a game ranks third all-time, behind Andrew Luck and Cam Newton, neither of whom completed 60 percent of their passes as a rookie. Thus, Foles is the only NFL rookie, ever, to average more than 240 yards while completing at least 60 percent of his passes. (You could argue that Marc Bulger did this with the Rams in 2002, but he was not technically a rookie, having been on the roster behind Kurt Warner for two years, not playing.)
Foles threw an interception once every 53 attempts. In NFL history, only one rookie QB has had a better ratio, RGIII last season, one every 78.6 atempts.
So, since last time I looked, no quarterback ever won the Super Bowl with his feet, I was kinda looking forward to seeing what Foles could do this season. Am I certain he is a franchise QB? No. That's where the "this season" part comes in. I don't think the Eagles are winning the Super Bowl this year, whether Foles, Vick, Norm Van Brocklin or Peyton Manning is the QB. If Vick somehow manages to play, say, 14 games (you know he isn't playing 16), maybe they can go 8-8, if lots of other stuff falls into place.
Big whoop. Say you go 8-8, then what? Are you positioned to draft a franchise QB in 2014? Almost certainly not. Have you built anything for the future with Vick at the helm? Absolutely not.
I don't know Kelly well, obviously, but many of the "competitions" for a starting positiion I've seen that involved a guy making at least $7.5 million a year and a guy making $500,000 have been suspiciously weighted in one direction. The Eagles aren't paying Vick a $3.5 million signing bonus this April to trade him, or even to have him watch Foles from the sideline.
But if the Eagles don't trade Foles, and don't draft a franchise QB, maybe all Foles has to do is wait for Vick to eventually get hurt to get the chance Foles should be getting, right from the get-go, to show he is the guy.
Trading Foles at this point could be a huge mistake, unless you were getting back, say, a high second-round pick. I would guess there will be teams asking; plenty of people in the NFL understand that Super Bowls tend to be won with a quarterback's arm and head, not with his feet.
Good article. If given the choice to only have one of the two, I would choose Foles. He makes quick decisions under pressure (he had an awful O-line at Arizona, too) and is a warrior. Vick still has his warp speed and rocket of an arm, but holds the ball too long and forces passes too often.
My prediction is that Vick will play pretty well until he gets injured in the fourth or fifth game, then Foles takes over and the franchise never looks back.— Argh27- Totally agree, Les.— dasher
- I couldn't agree more with this column. And let's not forget that Foles set those impressive rookie marks behind the same injury-riddled O-line that Vick supporters use as an excuse for Vick's poor play last season. Going with Vick at QB ultimately will get us nowhere. Giving Foles a shot behind a healthy O-line may just give us a view of a winning future.— Squizzy Magee
- The Eagles missed a great opportunity to prove that the Andy Reid era is truly over. It's going to be a bigger let down if Vick comes out and performs poorly than if they went with Foles or Dennis Dixon and those younger players went through some growing pains in a new system. Vick is too old and too injury prone to be putting up excuses. "It was the lockout." (A lot of QB's set records that year.) "It was the o-line." (The o-line was good in 2011 and Vick was still lousy.) Next year it will be, "Well, it was a new system he needed to learn." The guy is 33 years old and he hasn't learned how to play in the NFL yet. At what point do you get over the dazzling parts and realize he's not an NFL quarterback?— phillyplease
If there's a common theme between Super Bowl Winners, it's that their quarterbacks are Competent Pocket Passers. I'm tired of the running quarterback sets - once the QB gets figured out or hurt, the system is ruined. Look at the last 10 SB winning quarterbacks - none of them were runners:
2013 - Flacco - Passer
2012 - Eli - Passer
2011 - Aaron Rodgers - Passer
2010 - Drew Brees - Passer
2009 - Roethlisberger - Passer
2008 - Eli - Passer
2007 - Peyton - Passer
2006 - Roethlisberger - Passer
2005 - Brady - Passer
2004 - Brady - Passer
2003 - Johnson - meh (passer that year)
2002 - Brady - passer
2001 - Dilfer (Meh)
2000 - Kurt Warner - passer
Please don't waste another several years of our lives with a system that will fail. Just give us a balanced offense, a competent pocket passer, fix the defense and we'll have a chance. I'm not saying that Nick Foles will be that answer, but based on his time with a team that quit last year, I'd like to see him as a starter.
— dpcoz- Nice piece of work coz. One problem however. The Eagles just hired a HC who puts a premium on having a mobile QB. Foles is just not a long term fit with the offense that Chipper runs. I think that Chipper will give you the balanced offense that you want. BUT, a significant part of the run game will come from the QB. Something you absolutely won't get from Foles. I think his plan is to get his QB of the future (Johhny Football, Bridgewater, whoever) in April 2014 when Vick helps Chipper secure the first pick in the 2014 draft. — BP2
- Thank you dpcoz. A pocket passer has the won the Super Bowl in every single contest over the course of NFL history. In other words, a running QB has NEVER won a Super Bowl in NFL history. Not even Frank Tarkenton.
Between Cunningham/McNabb/Vick, the Eagles have featured a running QB for the last quarter century.
You may want not want to believe these comments, but they are alarmingly true and alarmingly indicative of how poorly run and poorly managed this Eagles franchise is.— bdd5014 - All these excuses for Vick. Here's the fact: he was never a good QB to begin with and he's not going to get better. He can NOT read a defense!— Charburger
- "My prediction is that Vick will play pretty well until he gets injured in the fourth or fifth game, then Foles takes over and the franchise never looks back."
This is my issue with this whole Vick deal. Do we as fans really have to go through that above scenario......AGAIN!!! I mean really, please dont torture us anymore. The salaries mentioned is also a great point, which leads so many to be absolutely disgusted with Chip Kelly already in his first month on the job. Disappointing all around. And to hear Vick fans say how horrible Foles is, meanwhile Foles looked better (not great for sure) than Vick under same circumstances. Throw in dpcoz comment and I dont know how anyone gets excited to rehash the same losing formula. Infuriating is more like it.— peteike - Let's see. Foles' NFL career is 1 win out of 5 games. He has just one more TD than INT. Percentage of NFL seasons he finished without being on injured reserve: 0%.
There is a lot of wishful thinking here.— Joe Seligkeit - watch out the real eagles fans will tell you foles is a joke and he sucks and is in no way better than their hero vick. let the reverse racism commence.— defroe
- I think Michael Vick gets too harsh a rap for his play last season because while it's true Vick had to operate behind the same line as Foles, what isn't true is that Foles played behind the line WHEN those guys were injured. Those first few weeks after the center got hurt were just ridiculous.
I know Foles played fairly well, especially for a rookie. And yes, with the available talent likely to put the Eagles at 8-8 at best, like Les Bowen says, there are numerous reasons to start Foles.
But then, I revert back to this: If Chip Kelly is truly worth all the cash he's getting, then just look at this division: RGIII injured. Dallas getting older and slower. The Giants clearly slowing down.
In other words, if you know you can get to 8-8 with Vick, then I can see why you go with him...because if you can steal one more win, maybe two, then you just might win the division.
Again, I can see the argument for keeping Foles. But if Chip Kelly thinks Vick gives him the best chance to win this season, I'm sorry, then that's what you do. The NFL...any year you can make the playoffs, you do it. The NFC East is down right now. If you think you can win it, then you go with the guys who you think give you the best chance to do that.— FlyerBacker88 - About 7 or 8 years ago, Kelly ran his offense at the Univ. of New Hampshire with a QB named Santos, who had a very similar skill set as Nick Foles. Santos won the Division I-AA player of the year award(same award Brian Westbrook won at Villanova) running the Kelly offense. Can't wait to see Foles running the offense this year. Vick is here for insurance, competition, talented camp body, until other candidates can be accumulated.— tommy_the_k
- that same awful offensive line in 2012 was ranked the second best in the league by Profootball focus in 2011. If peters, Kelce and Herrimans return healthy and they find someone for either RG or RT, It would be interesting to see what they would give Foles in 2013.— dpcoz
