Evan Turner, more than the bust question
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Evan Turner, more than the bust question
Before we get to the heart of this post, it's time for a shameless plug of our new Pro Basketball APP for iPhones and Androids. We're already providing plenty of coverage in the newspaper and on philly.com, but this new product ties all of those together, delivering all stories, blogs, videos, pictures, and Tweets into one application, and directly to your phone. In addition, we're providing additional content, including additional blogs and videos, that can only be accessed through the APP. Check it out, consider it, because soon it'll be the best place to get everything about the 76ers. You can check out the APP here, for both iPhones and Androids: Sixers basketball application.
Last night at the Wells Fargo Center, we talked with Andre Miller before the game. Miller's 2009 contract situation with the Sixers is old news, but the clip (at the bottom of this post) gives you an idea of Miller's soft-spoken nature, as well as his confidence in his abilities. It's a leadership the Sixers' are certainly lacking.
Okay, onto the purpose of this post: Sixers rookie guard Evan Turner. For once, we're not going to talk about Andre Iguodala. Well, okay, wait, we're going to talk about him very quickly in reference to the game he played against the Trail Blazers. It's somewhat baffling for any Sixers' fan to be upset at Iguodala because he scored only 7 points and finished Tuesday's game 2 for 4. Isn't that exactly what we all determined would be precisely the kind of game we wanted from Iguodala? He finishes 2 for 4 from the floor with 7 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, and 41 minutes of excellent defense. Kind of an exact replica of how he played for the USA team this summer, and kind of exactly how the Sixers need him to play. Of course those aren't the numbers of an $80 million player, and that's a different article entirely, and one we've written 100 times. But for Iguodala, those are numbers that help the team win. It'd be nice if those numbers cost the Sixers $6-$8 million a year, but that's not reality.
Right, onto Turner, yes.
Let's make an observation: Everyone around this team has said that Turner will excel when he feels supported and when he has the confidence of his coaches and all of those around him. That makes sense, of course, but it also begs the question: How will he perform if he isn't bolstered by everyone telling him he's the best and deserves every minute of playing time? Because often if a player is waiting for the whole-hearted support of everyone in the franchise before excelling, he's also depending on them to pick him up and give him reason to perform. If this is what Turner needs, it could be a long season for him.
There's something overwhelmingly empty about the way Turner is playing, regardless of how he meshes with Iguodala (oops, we mentioned him again). And the problem with this rests not with anyone but Turner. Does Turner need to continue to receive playing time? Absolutely. Should he continue to start? Sure, that makes sense. In some ways, Turner finds himself in an enviable position: because he's the No. 2 pick, and much is invested in him, he'll continue receiving the minutes the franchise needs in order to continue evaluating him. Compared to a guy like Jodie Meeks, who won't be given anything he hasn't earned, Turner should start making more of the time he's being given.
Like Collins said after last night's game, he has a bulldog (Meeks) on the bench waiting to take Turner's minutes. So instead of Turner waiting for more faith to be put in him, and waiting for someone to change his position and give him the ball, he needs to start treating his minutes as importantly as they would be treated by a guy like Meeks. That would require a change in attitude. It's difficult to go from being the go-to, all-everything guy at Ohio State to just another option here. And making that shift takes maturity, something Turner needs to continue demonstrating.
Everyone who's watching these games is making his/her own assessment about Turner, about his game, about his attitude, about his future potential. And the one question that keeps returning is: Is Turner taking responsibility for his own poor play? It's one thing to struggle in the first quarter of your rookie season, but it's another to stop attacking on the floor, to become just a ball-swinger, catching and passing to the top of the key, and to look elsewhere every time a mistake is committed.
Turner has an opportunity here, borne of his draft position and status, and it's time he embraces the challenge.
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--Kate
Each week, Kate will check in from the road and answer fan questions about the Sixers. Click here to ask Kate a question or e-mail her at kfagan@phillynews.com.
Comments (35)
Turner just needs time and so do the Sixers.— lacboi- Kate, "exactly how the Sixers need him to play"....7 points on 4 shots!! See that's the problem, you & the other reporters tell us about his all around game all the time & that's fine but the way the NBA works is you can't have your highest payed player be a role player! He puts that same line up with the Lakers playing along side Kobe I'd agree with you, playing along side Hoilday & Turner he needs to take more than 4 shots. It's sad money has to play such a big role in evaluating a player but it does, especially in the NBA.— cannon00
Comment removed.- Evan Turner is a disappointment so far in many ways,but he does provide a rather tall mobile defender against other tall guards -- until his offense improves. And he is not getting rebounds like he did in the beginning???— gba
Nice post, Kate. Meeks has been looking good. A bulldog, like Eric Snow, but with more speed and hops. Turner has been ghosting out there a little. Give him time, be patient with him, and he'll emerge sooner or later. Remember that Jrue didn't get going until after Lou Will got hurt last year. Turner isn't really the team's problem, though. If he improves, the team will improve. But he's not the central issue, with is probably the lack of a mobile intimidating presence bigger than Mr. Brand to clog the middle.— Leegles- Kate, you're right on about Turner. He looks so tentative and almost scared out there. And last night particularly, he gave up the ball like it was a hot potato, neither shooting nor looking to drive. You can't blame all that on Iguodala; if Turner wants the ball in his hands and minutes on the court, he has to do something with the ball and the minutes when he gets them.— FKD215
- Hahaha you guys are calling this guy a bust already?! Wow, some people just have too high expectations some times. What would he need to do to not become a "bust"? Drop 25 a night?— EaglesBleedMoney
- cant we all agree that management failed at giving the contract to iggy?— timothhyy
- Who wants Iguodala to play like he did on team USA? He was an afterthought, he lost his starting spot once the real competition started, and anyone can play nice defense against lesser competition on a team of studs. The fact is he is vastly overpaid and not tradeable.— JonKap
- That's the most effective Iggy - just not the most effective use of $80 million— buff1
- Much like you can't have an 80 mil dollar player, being a role player, you can't have a #2 overall pick as a guy with very little upside, which is what Turner has IMHO.
Because no one seems to write, or care, much about the Sixers, nationally, what do you guys think of Turner so far. - Whether Iguodala is tradeable will depend, in my estimation, on what the Sixers are willing to take in return. The proof will be in the pudding. As for last night, yes, he played like many posters have suggested, a more athletic George Lynch, albeit at a much, much higher cost. Last night may have been an aberration. In any event, how effective that kind of play would be depends on the number of victories achieved by the Sixers when Iguodala limits himself to under 10 shots in 40 minutes. If they win, thanks to greater offensive contributions from teammates, then his salary and reduced scoring is irrelevant; if they continue to lose, then his salary becomes the elephant in the room, because of the difficulty in trading him. Offensively, he does need to take more than four shots (something Collins will undoubtedly point out), perhaps from posting up more and from running the lane on the break (he was hurt by Holiday being in foul trouble much of the game). He does not need to force the action at the offensive end, which sometimes gets him in trouble. He also could use more help offensively and on the boards from Turner, who looks like D League material right now, and could use help from the front Office in securing someone, anyone, who can bang underneath, a Reggie Evans clone, and a back-up veteran point guard. Hawes has some game offensively, but he lacks defensive presence (a kind way of saying he has the defensive skills of a rock).— chuckw
- Ya know - I gotta think that maybe that was part of why Coach had Meeks out there to close out the win last night rather than Mr. Turner.
Maybe to send a message and/or reward the bulldog, who also gives you a better chance to win at this point.
— shova - How long is everybody gonna keep talking about iggy contract it is wat it is and hes not gonna get traded unless we get a allstar and thats not gonna happen forget about it!!!!! Kate said it right thats wat we want from him if he was 5 for 17 i will be reading iggy stop shooting comments like i have been all year. Thats what i wanna see from him great d and attacking tha basket a couple times a game. the scoring should come from turner,brand a lil from jrue and the rest from the bench becuase thats wat most of their game is scoring thats why were number 2 in tha league in bench scoring.— MookDollaZ
- shova: the only message Collins seemed to be sending: Turner is awful right now, I want to win, thus Meeks gives me a better chance at winning. MookDollaZ: agreed, but four shots in 41 minutes might be taking it to the extreme? If he limits himself to taking good open looks, posting up, and scoring off the break he would be fine. He often takes too many off balance shots which has been a problem for many posters, along with his propensity for missing too many late in the game foul shots.— chuckw
- I think you got it wrong Kate, he will excel when he feels confident in himself and is on track within the offense of this team and in this league, he's not waiting for other people to have confidence in him.— allrightknight
- i miss andre miller . he is a gamer and a competitor that we lack at that position. Last night was a step in the right direction and I agree we need Brand to step it up more on defense because we lack a fearful dominating presence down low- a la Shaquille O Neal Lakers Dynasty. LaMarcus Aldridge and Camby were having their way in the first half before we took the game into our hands. Cant think of any names now but I see that as a weakness in our squad.— DonovanMcNabb
- igoudala is a team player. he is actually not lying through his teeth like most NBA players when they say they will score less if the team wins. if all it takes to win by 9 points every night is to limit AI to 4 points, lead the team in rebounds, and play great defense then I'll take that every night no matter what his salary is. when he sees the team needs him to play more aggressively on offense then he steps up his game. granted he is no Kobe, but the fact is that last night when team needed some half court one-on-one play near the end of the game they gave the ball to AI and he did not shy away. I've never heard of a #2 pick who has to be forced to be aggressive. it is amazing to watch. at this stage I'd let ET babysit my kids but he needs to get hot under the collar and push the action if he is to warrant more playing time.— barrywil
- Who was the last superstar basketball player (in the NBA)from Ohio State?....Get the drift.— class74
- barrywil: Turner would be the most expensive baby sitter you have ever hired. Class74: John Havlicek, although Jim Jackson had a solid NBA career.— chuckw
- Comment removed.
- nice stream of consciousness blog post. The title should have just been "Sixers."— notojm
- btw doug collins might be the worst coach in the NBA. i hear the sixers are trying to lure ernie johnson away from his slot on TBS.— notojm
- i thin turner is the next darco milicic. i'd rather not expect anything from turner who can't adjust in the NBA game. i'd rather concetrate on the improvements of Jrue. Give the minutes of turner to meeks already. don't expect too much from turner cause right now he's not showing the numbers and might not show it at all. unlike its fellow rookies like john wall.— Wolverine42
- Turner isn't that good. I predict he'll be playing overseas in a few years. Sixers should've traded down, but they wanted the big name to sell seats.— Leron
- whatsthe411: thank you for the compliment; having read your posts, trust me, you know more about B Ball than many posters and FAR more than Ed. Snider. I particularly liked your comment on Ron Artest. As for not buying tickets this season, be of good cheer, as most of those "fans" in attendance are friends, family, and freebies (and forlorn beat writers like Kate Fagan and Bob Cooney).— chuckw
- I just wish Turner would get angry once in a while. Play the game with some attitude and stop trying to be perfect. If he's waiting around for people to pat him on the head all the time, his career will be over before it starts.— JB1204
Me personally. I would shut him down. And begin his off season... RIGHT NOW! Speed, explosion. Bring him back in April. Playing him now.. Unprepared. will kill his confidence. Confidence is a difficult thing to regain once lost. Shut him down. Shut him down. Shut him down. Get him in the wt room. He's not contributing anyway. Now until April. That's 5 months alot can happen in 5 months. Think ahead.. Not for today..he only has 1 gear. Lou has 6. Turner needs atleast a 3 speed.— combocancer1975- The problem with both Turner and Iggy is that neither is mentally tough enough to be all stars. Iggy is told his whole career he can't shoot so what does he do... he keeps throwing bricks up trying to prove he can. With his athleticism, he should post up at the foul line and either shoot over a shorter defender or drive past the bigger/slower defender and get to the foul line.....and make 1 of 2 of course. He wouldn't be worth 80 mil but definately an all star if he lived with that game plan. As far as Turner goes, i'm not saying bust yet but you would think by now he wouldn't be so tentative. i'm wondering if doug is in his ear too much about working the ball around b/c i'd be screaming for him to be more aggressive. We're 5-13! Not exactly racing to the playoffs right now so why not develop your offensive game, get used to the speed, and don't worry about your turnover ratio. Just learn how you'll be the most effective scorer for this team instead of just standing at the top of the key looking to swing the ball so nobody complains about turnovers. all stars (not even champions just all stars) always want the ball in their hands and this kid doesn't. I heard a lot during the offseason about how competitive this kid is. I don't see it yet and we're getting close to the point where I'm feeling like i should stop waiting for it.— 76ers in 2076
- Turner reminds me of how tentatively Iggy played his first year or two in the set offense. Turner can dribble, rebound, pass, and defend. He just doesn't have the shooting touch needed at the 2 or 3. (Sounds like Iggy again.) To be an effective NBA player at those positions, he will have to be in the right situation and the Sixers are not that.— ml307n
As many posts have stated, the Sixers biggest problem is that they have 2 players making max dollars who are average/good ball players. And the thing that bothers me is that last year the Sixers brass said that they "would only make moves to better their basketball team, not financial moves". But under this cap structure the Sixers need to take a couple steps back to move forward on a winning course. If they have opportunities to trade Igoudala and Brand for expiring contracts and a gatorade cooler, they MUST do it. I don't care about "value" in return, because for those players we'll never get full value. So rather than taking on a stiff like Spencer Hawes or some other underachiever, acquire expiring contracts, cross our fingers in the lottery, and allow the young players to develop. This, along with a little luck, is the only way the Sixers will get better, positively the only way.— CosmoK- Enough with the "we shoulda kept Andre Miller" talk! His defensive shortcomings were growing gigantic at the end of the 08-09 season. Rondo went by him like he was a human turnstile and went over him with ease.— ml307n
- Those are not the ideal numbers from Iggy with us, or any other team where he starts. Double those numbers (14 point on 8 shots) and you've got the "Iggy Ideal".— ml307n
- Just another opinion but Turner needs to come off the bench for now. Turner isn't the only one struggling (and winking at a teammate before he missed those 2 free throws vs Wash didn't help his confidence). Coach Collins is still figuring out what he has here & what his rotations should be.— Roadwork
- IGGY NEEDS TO GO NOW SO TURNER CAN DEVELOPE. THOSE TWO TOGETHER WILL NOT WORK AND ALSO PUTS THE OTHER PLAYERS IN DIFFERENT ROLES. PLEASE GO GET KEVIN LOVE AND WE WILL START TO WIN.— bill poore
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About this blog
John Mitchell is in his second year covering the 76ers for the Inquirer after joining the paper in November 2011. He covered the Washington Wizards for the Washington Times from 1998 to 2008. He's also worked at the Philadelphia Tribune, the Wilmington News Journal, Courier-Post, Trenton Times and Elmira Star-Gazette.Born and raised in West Philadelphia - not too far from Will Smith - he graduated from Overbrook High School the same year the 76ers won their last championship. He's a proud graduate of Howard University and the proud father of two sons, Jared and Jordan.
ABOUT MARC NARDUCCI
Marc Narducci has served in a variety of roles with the Inquirer since beginning in 1983. He has covered the 76ers as a backup and a beat writer. In addition, Narducci has covered everything from the Super Bowl to the World Series and a lot in between. Narducci also has a true passion for South Jersey scholastic sports, which he has covered for many years.
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