Evan Turner, no longer a rookie
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Evan Turner, no longer a rookie
Sixers guard Evan Turner has a lot of work to do this off-season. (Matt Slocum/AP file photo)
We're getting closer to more specific talk about the NBA Draft. The combine in Chicago is May 18-22 and then the 76ers will start bringing in players to PCOM for workouts. Today, we'll just continue with our coverage of some of the smaller questions surrounding the Sixers. On Monday, we discussed the future possibilities with young big man Craig Brackins. If you missed that post, you can find it here: Brackins. On Tuesday, we talked about the future of center Spencer Hawes and whether or not the Sixers would want to re-sign the 23-year-old starting center. If you missed that post, you can find it here: Hawes.
Today, per the e-mails I've received, people seem to be interested in Evan Turner, the No. 2 pick in the 2010 NBA Draft. The question I've received more than any other? If the Sixers could make that selection again, would they still draft Turner? The question I've received the second-most amount of times? Where do the Sixers see Turner playing? At point guard, at starting shooting guard, at small forward?
The point of today's post is to paint a picture of how the franchise views Turner, at this exact moment in time. We all have opinions about how Turner's rookie year went, and nobody believes it was earth-shattering, but I'd like to toss one idea out there that we haven't fully discussed previously. Turner went through the fire. Sixers coach Doug Collins didn't hand him anything. He had a handful of games where he didn't play, per coach's decision, and we'd be naive to think those moments didn't knock the wind out of Turner. But also, in an old-fashioned way, it was probably the best thing that could have happened to him. Because he impressed people with the way he handled himself last season. Nothing was given to him and in the long run there's belief within the organization that this will make him a stronger, more dedicated, more mentally tough player than some rookies who received 35 minutes a game, a starting role, and a prime-time spot on a 20-win team.
So in answer to the most asked question: who would the Sixers draft if they could do it all again? I still think they draft Turner; I think people within the organization -- and I know I agree with this -- still believe he will raise to the level of a No. 2 pick, even if his rookie year numbers don't reflect that status immediately.
By all accounts, at Turner's exit interview the day after the loss to the Miami Heat, he made it clear he understands what he has to do this summer. And he's excited to do it. He is keeping in good contact with everyone and preparing himself for a breakout sophomore season. In addition to improving that mid-range jumper, Turner understands that he must be in absolutely ideal physical condition when he enters camp next September. Toward the end of last season, because his minutes were often sporadic and traveling isn't the healthiest style of living, Turner probably wasn't in tip-top, prime-time shape. But he will be next season. And that will go a long way toward allowing him to defend on the low block, improve his first step, and be more explosive on the floor.
He's excited for what he can do next season, and so is the franchise.
So in answer to the second most asked question: what position is Turner? I'm going to give all Sixers' fans something else to think about in saying that it's possible you might see Turner playing more small forward next season. I know we've talked about his potential for starting at the shooting guard spot, as well as how well he plays when given minutes as the main ballhandler, but if you move forward under the premise that the point guard position absolutely belongs to Jrue Holiday, then you have to ask yourself where might Turner find the most minutes? Are his skills perhaps best suited to playing the small forward? If he can get himself into prime condition, can add some strength to effectively defend on the low block, then keep an eye on Turner's potential as a small forward.
Of course, there are plenty of other factors the team must address as this summer moves forward. Right now, the starting small forward position rightfully belongs to Andre Iguodala. If the right deal doesn't come along in the next few months, then Turner's minutes will -- as they were this season -- be much more difficult to come by and will be patched together across three positions: point guard, shooting guard, and small forward.
But the main point of this blog is to answer the lingering questions about Turner: the franchise considers him a crucial piece for the future and Turner has been straight-forward with telling them he's prepping for a legitimate sophomore season.
Here are a few lineup ideas to consider:
Status Quo: 1.) Holiday, Meeks, Iguodala, Brand, Hawes. (Obviously worst case because there's no improvement.)
Idea #1: 1.) Holiday, Player X, Turner, Brand, Player X. (Obviously dependent on making a trade involving Iguodala for a scoring guard and perhaps drafting a big man.)
Idea #2: 1.) Holiday, Turner, Iguodala, Brand, Player X. (Dependent on acquiring a big man, whether by draft or trade, but could be a very difficult lineup to push because of the lack of shooting.)
We could play the lineup game all day. If you want all of the quick-hit info, please follow on Twitter. You can do that here: Deep Sixer
--Kate
Each week, Kate will check in from the road and answer fan questions about the Sixers. Click here to ask Kate a question or e-mail her at kfagan@phillynews.com.
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Comments (106)
So saying Iguodala's gone (which he should be), Turner's a 3. My sentiments exactly. Thank you Ms. Fagan. (y) (y)— BlackFeet01- Kate, you are amazing. No one in the Philly media works harder than you; you really have your finger on the pulse of this team. I'm sure that Phil Jasner would be proud - you are a worthy successor. Thanks!— guitarman
- Iguodala and Lou to Minnesota for the #2, then draft Kantner?— JLB
- like the idea, but your price is too high.
Iggy alone is worth #2 pick.— wordsword - Nobody that isn't impaired is going to give you the #2 pick for a 27 year old with Iguodala's limitations.
TURNER isn't a Small Forward, he's a SHOOTING GUARD like JOE JOHNSON.
TURNER and JOE JOHNSON (both 6'7) are the same type of player :
1 - handle skills 2 - creativity 3 - versatility etc...
to me Jodie Meeks can't be a starter, Turner should play as a SG with the same role than Joe Johnson with the Hawks, especially, Jrue Holiday can play off the ball, so turner can play the same way than joe johnson.
If he's midrange improve, he can be a scorer to, he can score more than 20pts per game and take 7 or 8 rbds with more minutes and responsabilities.
- Don't like Turner at the 3. Repeat after me: Need to get bigger, Need to get bigger.
Definitely, not smaller.
— bmac821 - Maybe philly.com will let Gonzo stay on board to get Kate's coffee in the morning and do her laundry. Nice work, Kate, you and Sheil are the only REAL sports writers on staff.— kgall
- I like the idea of Turner at the 3...but i also like the idea of him running the point for some of the game. I think if we start games with Turner at the point it will help both him and Holiday get going. Holiday is a natural scorer who can play decently off the ball. Turner is a natural floor leader who can create shots WITH the ball. I think the NBA has changed recently in several ways that the sixers are built for: much more passing from all positions; faster, more athletic team defense. Having several players capable of running the point is a good thing that should be utilized...just as having several players who can guard different positions is an advantage. If we can somehow land a decent center the versatility of our players will be realized much more for the pluses than the minuses of having those type of players.— murdock101
- BlackFeet01: read the caveat: "if you move forward under the premise that the point guard position absolutely belongs to Jrue Holiday," and the other caveats: "If he can get himself into prime condition, can add some strength to effectively defend on the low block" and I would add, "dramatically improves his jump shot." Then the final and most important caveat: IF they trade Iguodala. All of that means that Meeks remains the two guard. Are you happy with that? Do you consider Meeks a starting two guard in the NBA other than for the Sixers?
— chuckw - My roster. Jrue, SG/or Turner if he can prove himself, Young, Brand, defensive center. Bench: Lou, Meeks, Hawes.
Please get rid of Kopono, nocioni, and speights.
All sixers have to do is pick up a decent center that can challenge the lane and get rebounds (perhaps get on in the draft). They don't need him to score. With Jrue, Young and Brand out there, they will score enough. This will give us a decent front court of Brand+Center. Young and Evan can both get rebounds. If brand or new center get in foul trouble, you have hawes coming off the bench, which is not too bad (he is only 23).— penncrow19 
Comment removed.- Having a power forward like Dirk and a tough,defensive center like Chandler is how you win titles. Westbrook and Durant can run up and the court anyway they want, but a big,strong front court is where it is at, hope the sixers are wathcing and learning.— lewisbratspis
- maybe we can grab the Cavs no 4 and get us a centerpiece for the decade.— lewisbratspis
- What about trading Iggy to move up and draft that kid Biyampo(?).
Not having seen him play I wonder if anybody has a take on him?— Cameiros - At the risk of being redundant, Turner is a jack of all trades but a master of none. he's not as fast and can't guard quick pgs like Holiday can. He can't shoot like Meeks or lou can and he can't finish at the rim like Iggy or Thad can. Starting him ahead of any of those guys would be a step back. When he proves he can do one of those things very well then he can start.— mtairy1
- Also to everyone dissing Meeks, he may not be the greatest NBA starter but he's the only shooter we have. The Sixers best perimeter players are all slashers (Jrue, Thad, iggy, Lou). With players like that you need someone who can spot up and hit a 3. You need someone who can stretch the defense to open driving lanes for the slashers. Did you see the Bulls game, the Mavs/OKC game? Not saying Meeks is ideal but with Turners defender will play off of him and help on penetration. Until we get another 3 pt threat Meeks has to play.— mtairy1
- This is a very young team that is just beginning to scratch the surface of what they are capable of. Out side of Iggy and Brand, who are both solid NBA starters, the rest of the guys getting serious minutes are very young. Who knows how much better any of them will get? I think Thad earned a starters spot.They need to draft bigs, they have plenty of guards and SFs already.— Paul SoTX
- Trade Turner if it gets you Dwight Howard somehow. Keep Thad Young if you can as well. I don't see Turner being a star in this league, trade him while having the prospect and potential labels right now.— John H.
- I still wish we draft Favors.— WestPhillyKong
- In today's NBA, you CAN NOT have a small forward who plays below the rim. You can't. There is no amount of strength that's going to improve that aspect of his game. I don't care whether Holiday is the PG of the future, you play people where they have the greatest chance for success, not where you "need" a body. That's a recipe for losing seasons.
Evan Turner plays the game of a point guard, not a point forward. If you want to have an advantage over other NBA teams, other NBA PGs, make Turner a PG and determine between Holiday and Turner who will be the PG of the future.
Evan Turner doesn't need to be able to handle SF's down on the block, he needs to be able to rise with them both offensively and defensively. I've never seen a guy that young and that tall get his shot blocked as much and as easily as Turner.
The fact is, Evan Turner has a chance to be special, to be a difference maker as a PG, not so much as a SG or a SF. You'll just be getting by with him as a body in the SF spot while you then have to go in search of your starting SF.— PhilaPhans - At this point in time, I have no problem with Meeks. The key with him is figuring out if he performs better as a starter or coming off the bench. I thought Kate did a good job on this blog about Turner; I felt that Turner got a bit of a bad rap this year because some guys(Iguodala)had poor interactions with him on the court. Turner does have limitations, but it was the 76ers' brass who decided to keep the #2 pick and take him there. I also feel that if Kate is taking a shot at Cousins(and maybe Favors), saying Turner could become "more mentally tough player than some rookies who received 35 minutes a game, a starting role, and a prime-time spot on a 20-win team", she is spot on, but I still would have rather had Wall. Like Turner, Holiday has a lot of work to do. Holiday can hit the spot up jumper, but his passing and his dribbling in traffic need improvement. As teams take the 76ers more seriously, and zero in on the 76ers' weaknesses, more adjustments in players' games will be needed, and the need for better big players will become more apparent- Marc Gasol would be good, Sammy - anywhere but here.— 76erfn
- @chuckwagon: well, I think it's safe to say that Holiday's the PG. And put on some weight, I'm sure he'll do that, whether it be through his own intuition, or a coach/teammates' advice. And Iguodala will be gone later, if not sooner.
@amaru: Johnson was actually drafted as a 3. He's only played the 2 because of Josh Smith. I mean, his game still screams SF. He doesn't play off the ball, he just uses his crossover, and hits his jumpshots that way, or through pick and roll.— BlackFeet01 - @BigVil: OR, we could go your route, and put Turner and Young on the wing, which might actually be cool, under the right circumstances. Do you think Young can get his jumpshot back, and develop some handles an defense? He shot about 41% on threes in college, and I believe 35% in '09 or '10, so he's average, and hopefully can improve. With Holiday and Young spacing the floor, Turner would be in better shape (and that's not saying he doesn't learn to play off the ball, and get a sweet mid-range shot).— BlackFeet01
- It's about consistency with Thad he has been yanked around since he got here. Just let him stay at the for. Thad has a nice post game. They when away from what he does well. He has a spin move. He has that half hook half floater. I want to keep Thad in the paint. He can knock down the occasional trey to keep them honest but I want him in the paint.
- Thad is our 3 if we don't lose him by not matching an offer. I agree with the comments that he has the potential to improve his treys if asked. 34% while out of position at the 4 wasn't shabby in 08-10 before DC shut him down. If we allow him to languish on the bench, we will have never known his capabilities. Evan needs the ball in his hands to excel and the ball belongs to Jrue. Only two players are fixed in their positions; Jrue and EB. That's not a formula for success. If we get a big, he'll have to start with EB with Spencer as backup big. Then there's no place for Thad but at the 3. There will be a big trade involving AI9 and at least another starter and possibly,Thad if there's commitment to Evan at the 3.
We'll challenge in 2013, maybe...A reasonable target next year is a 4th seed.— philsix6 - Kate, you had me at "would they draft turner at 2nd again". But then I felt a little let down when you did not compare Turner to others available after him now with a season behind them.— frd
- Concerning Iguodala, Dei Lynam on DNL, discussed the fact that Iguodala was not overpaid and that his career numbers put him among elite company and he has great value. Considering that she is employed by Comcast and her father coached the Sixers and is close to Stefanski, one wonders is she is getting out in front of no trade of Iguodala by the Front Office or is trying to convince other teams to trade for him? I like aspects of his game, but he is the pivot around which so much depends in terms of Turner, Meeks, Hawes, and Young going forward, and thus needs to be moved, in my opinion.— chuckw
- I'm going to assume this was for our amusement Chuck. I don't think you give any credibility to the propaganda machine of Cabletown. By the way did you notice they hired former FCC commissioner Meredith Attwell after she help approve their acquisition of NBC. I know what's up with that, but it begs the question "What up wit dat?"
- I don't think Jrue, Turner, Thad grow as quickly with Iguodala on the team therefore Iguodala goes along with Speights and hopefully brings a big.— JBP
- I would re-sign Hawes and Young, trade Iggy for someone like Jason Thompson of the Kings hes in his 3rd year and he can play center and PF. It gives you a lineup of Holiday and Turner with Young and Brand at the forwards and Thompson in the middle. Williams, Meeks and Hawes off the bench. I would use my draft pick for the best scorer available.— jss31
- What going on gang just woke up from a power nap...... all this nonsense about position has to stop. You just put your best 5 out there and let them grow. Jrue, Turner, Thad, Brand, and Hawes (for now). Move Iguodala for some players to strengthen the bench. Trade our the 16 pick and Speights or Brackin to Washington for McGee or trade down in to the second round pick up some extra picks for this draft or the future. Draft some help at PF, Keith Benson or Jordan Williams. Sign an inexpensive center. That's my blueprint. I'm not worried about Turner as a SF, because I know he will be on the floor with Jrue and Williams/Meeks. I'm not worried about Jrue as a PG because we have a player in Turner that allows him to play off the ball. Fellas the first time in a long time I can say we are good. We are going to be fine. This is the same feeling I had about the Phils after Colorado kick our butts in the playoffs. We just need a shot blocker/rebounder or two.
- KATE FAGAN DESERVES A RAISE!!! Thanks Kate, your ability to stay on topic and offer insightful analysis about the players, team and game are a pure pleasure to read. Please continue to develop your writing skills around this core and stay away from the mindless hype and fan baiting that ALL of your male colleagues on Philly.com seem to rely on far too much.— GreenOrangeRedBlueBlood
- BigVil: actually I laugh at Dei Lynam on DNL as she cannot be objective and generally follows the official Comcast (Kabletown)line, but her appearance tonight was odd, particularly when she pushed her study of Iguodala's salary and overall numbers seemingly to convince Sixer fans that he really, really is worth the money and thus should not be traded unless the Sixers get blown away by an offer (not likely). As for the hiring of Meredith Attwell, welcome to the Washington revolving door for lobbyists, although technically she is restricted for now from lobbying. Keep in mind, however, she is also the daughter-in-law of James Baker, a heavy hitter in the Republican Party.
BTW! A Power Nap? Who are you, Winston Churchill? Margaret Thatcher? Bill Clinton?— chuckw - That's some company to be in. LOL.... I planned to shoot some video this week but Mother Nature shut me down..... Iguodala isn't overpaid by NBA standards but we needed him to be more. He isn't a 100mil player. He numbers are similar to Gay's numbers and they make around the same amount. Deng is the bargain in the league. I don't have problem with Iguodala, but a basketball team is like a tree. You need to prune it to help it grow better and now is the time for some pruning.... As for Attwell, it's just amazing that all the back scratching is blatant.
- @kgall I like the the Situation where Gonzo is kept on to get coffee for Kate... seems like best case scenario to me!— bfranklin
- Kate, thanks for the blogs. I would agree with you that the 3 would make the most sense, but a lot depends on what happens with #9. Evan showed he can rebound this season, which would be a plus. To me the main thing that he needs to work on is wanting to attack the rim harder. I have never seen a player get blocked more and that is because he attempts layups or double pump shots instead of attacking and trying to dunk. He needs to stop fearing the contact and he can become a dangerous player as he has shown he can get to the basket when he wants.— Mattb
- Turner is a 'two'. Reference the number of times his shot was blocked when he went inside in the playoffs... We need a center who can rebound and defend his position [a la Perkins]. EB can score a little more if he doesn't have to play the 'five'.— fillyfan
- Whether at the 2 or 3, putting Turner in the starting lineup with starter's minutes should be a priority. If Iggy stays then Evan should start at shooting guard and don't look back. We would be good enough defensively to not have to rely on the 3 pointer. Jrue, Evan, and Iggy would all get deflections, steals, and rebounds and be off to the races.
Now if Iggy is gone (preferably for the big man), Evan would fit nice at the 3 if we had a 2 guard the caliber of Jamal Crawford or JR Smith (Would either take with the Mid level exception to start for the Sixers?)— Aaron B - I like Turner because he has maturity, character, plays hard and is just a good basketball player. Maybe he's a little like Young in that he isn't a perfect fit for a position at this point-- not really a 1, pure 2, or 3. But he can do it all and with his work ethic, he'll be doing it all much better in the next few years. Might never be an all-star, but he won't be a bust either.— DeanoP44
- This constant of where to play Turner still bothers me . . .
"He can be PG, or he can be a SG, or he can be a SF . . ."
I never knew a baseball infielder "who can play every position" ever amounting to much.— wordsword - you have a point but basketball is different. Is he a point PG? On offense he could be. Is he a SG I think that would be his best position. Is He a SF not quite big enough. But he will do a lot of good things on the court. The main complaint about Iguodala is he doesn't score enough. I think Turner will score about 20 points a game.
- Guess you never heard of Pete Rose. — blah
- I'm not completely sold on Iggy being gone by next season. The CBA situation is iffy and I don't think Thorn and Co. are gonna get trigger happy in dealing him. We'll shop him like we've done for the past few years, but we haven't dealt him yet and this new CBA isn't helping matters. I wouldn't be surprised if we just draft a big, resign our guys, and begin next season.— enkiel
- Keep Turner. Some are saying he can't run with other teams' PGs yet they fail to mention how turner would abuse the avg PG with his height. I don't have a crystal ball so i can't say what will happen and we can't assume if these dudes will get better at fundamentals. I'm working with what i've already seen from them.
He is not strong enough to be a forward. i would like to keep jrue too but unless he get's it together, i don't trust him with the ball as a PG in pressure situations the way i dont trust iggy with the roc with 7 secs left. jrue has a habit of committing careless turnovers.
Keep them both and try the experiment. the marketing dept has already sold us on this "backcourt of the future" slogan. smh ahh but it's the sixers mgmt we're dealing with here. I would not be surprised if one of them goes to the spurs or lakers and wins a chip within 2-3 yrs of being traded.— Mack of the Pack - These are good kids we have and hopefully we get to watch them grow up together. I like this core. We didn't even have a core 3 seasons ago. I like them because there is no egos. Turner Jrue Meeks and Lou are supportive of each other. With a couple of big men added to the mix, I can't see any team in our division that worries me.
- Many posters were excited by the tough games the Sixers played against the Heat, but first round games often see the overwhelming favorites play down to the competition. For a clearer view of where the Sixers are, rewatch the Heat-Bulls game tonight and watch brutal, bloody defense, serious playoff action, where the Bulls were held at 29 points in the second half, 10 in the fourth quarter, while the Heat scored 37 points in the second half, with 14 in the final quarter, with James becoming the go-to guy down the stretch. Not bad shooting, but sensational shut-down defense, including against Rose and Wade. Sixers were a better team defensively this season, but not in the class of the Heat and Bulls, and still lack a go-to scorer.— chuckw
- Good point Vil, no disrepect Mrs.Mack, i mean Fagan, but as long as we get these daily write ups about who to keep, who should go, everyone(including myself) will continue playing E-GM. The sad part is everyone has given better suggestion than Eddy Stef.
Let me pose this thought. Let's say Thad decides to stay for a bargin in the range of $7.5M-$8M in exchange for a chance to start. And let's say iggy isn't moved. you're line up will now have player X, brand & thad C,PF,SF respectively. Sooo iggy becomes you're SG, which isn't bad but he's not paid to score, but to lockdown the other teams best offensive swingman and do the intangibles. Now do you start turner or jrue? isf it's jrue than is turner a back up SF?
Can we stop mentioning the name howard please? There's a better chance of Ryan Howard being on the sixers' bench as a PF than dwight coming here.— Mack of the Pack - @BigVil: ok, just WHY do you think Young should remain a PF? He gets ABUSED by the likes of Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, even Rashard fn Lewis back in '09, and HE'S a 3 himself. '09 first round, game in Memphis this year, tells me all I need to know. Just don't think the offense mismatch is worth it. Perhaps in spurts, but even then, this guy was supposed to be our star (not superstar) wing at one point.— BlackFeet01
- Okay he isn't going to play the PF. I don't want him hanging around the arc. When he is most effective is when he is in the paint. He can post up other SF. When we go small he does play PF if the match up is in our favor...... BTW you pick two of the best at there position and a third guy that made him look bad when he was a rookie. Our current PF wouldn't look that good against them either.
- Mack: the way Howard is swinging the bat right now, perhaps he would be a bigger help to the Sixers. As many of us have posted previously, Iguodala is a key to next season, as far as Young, Turner, Meeks and even Hawes is concerned. If Iguodala stays, do you sign Young to be a back-up four, what happens to Turner and Meeks, does Hawes remain the starting center? Like a number of posters, I wonder whether Young could play the three. Would a starting five of Holiday (6:4) and Turner (6:6) as combo guards, Young (6:8) at the three, Brand (6:9) at the four, and X (6:10+ by the trade of Iguodala) at center be the best team the Sixers could start, with Meeks, Williams,and Hawes off the bench for instant offense?— chuckw
- @ chuck..Instant offense = instant oatmeal. It's Hot except i don't believe in hawes like i don't believe in organized religion. Katz are saying "well he's only 23", so is bow-wow and that kid stinks. I noticed people make excuses for who they want to make excuses for. If hawes wanted to remain on this team, i'd say look son, you need to lower that $4.whatever to $2.7M. I don't see how ppl say hawes has potential but but a glass ceiling over iggy's. I'm not the biggest Ai9 fan but fair is fair. If anything, hawes was in the same draft as young and taken higher and in the west. If anything going up constantly against, duncan,gasol,yao,& caveman should have made him more competitive on the boards and with blocks. But maybe i'm thinking logically which is the opposite of mgmt.- shrugs-— Mack of the Pack
- All of the position talk is just crazy to me. Because we all these guy should be on the floor more. Thad is a 3 or 4 or whatever he needs to be on the floor. Is Turner a 2 or 3 or even a 1 he has to be on the floor. Basically fellas this means someone and we all know who needs to go. Whether you like Kaman or Bynum or my suggestion some bench help, he has to go.
- i think turner is a 1. the problem? he cant defend the position. the problem at the 2.. he cant catch and shoot. the problem at the 3 he's too short and below the rim. He needs to become a nba athlete. not a ymca athlete. he's a very good point guard though. but jrue's a good one also. and written in pen. his only hope is to beat jodie. j.r. smith is what we want turner to become.. he's 25. and unrestricted.. i have an idea... LETS STOP WAITING! WISHING! KILL THE LEARNING CURB! AND GET SMITH IN HERE! lou or turner noc for smith. I say take the kid at 16.. rodman and longley. shaq and horry. duncan and robinson. thorpe and dream. HIGH SKILL! AND ATHLETIC INTENSE REBOUNDERS.... total opposites with one common denominator. 7ft. kaman... would byombo be available at 16? varejao? or cleveland could just TAKE THE SALARY.. would they do it? im goin in circles. kaman and aminu would be enough for me. for 9 and hawes... sorry. hawes would be a very nice backup for 4mil... to deandre jordan.— combocancer1975
- YMCA? Combo you just gonna diss the guy like that. I think we fall in love with flashy players. Turner didn't have to catch and shoot. I think he can learn and be enough of a threat to make people respect him. Turner will give you assists. Turner will rebound the ball. I guarantee Turner will have a better year than JR Smith next season. (per minutes played) Besides JR Smith is disrespectful we don't need a player like that. And there is no one at 16 that are as good as any of the players you mentioned. Otis Thorpe would be a top five pick in this draft. Take a look at the eruo projects available none of them will give us the toughness we need.
- Mack: Right now, all Hawes can contribute is a 15-18 foot jumper from around the arc, which he showed on occasion, but not consistently. Williams and Meeks would be instant offense and if Hawes is hot, would also contribute offensively. Apparently, he is better at knowing where to be on the floor offensively than Speights, who brings the same skillset. I would think that one or the other will get traded, but not both, unless the Sixers trade for a big and draft another big. To give some posters their due, bigs take longer to develop, and he is only 23 and the son of a coach. Key is whether Collins likes him or not. I still like bringing in Ryan Howard to add some muscle unless he starts to hit more consistently on what is becoming the worst offense in the National League. Knowing Stefanski he will get confused and think he is bringing in Dwight.— chuckw
- Bismack Biyombo! Smack is seriously phenomenal and exactly what we need. This kid will be a star. Crazy raw...but he will be atleast a Serge Ibaka type if not more with a lot of coaching. trade, sell whatever it takes to get this guy. http://www.nbadraft.net/players/bismack-biyombo— murdock101
- @BigVil: it was his sophomore season, and I'd bet my GI Bill that a healthy Lewis would f*** Young's world up in the post any game of the season. And you imply I'm being idealistic, but isn't that how your supposed to strategize, and prepare for worst case scenario? To be the best, you gotta beat the best, that's why everyone's all hyped about size, because of the Celtics and Lakers. And because of PG's like Ty Lawson, that some believe Turner's better off not guarding PG's, even though there'll be PG's like Calderon, Billups, Arenas, and Chalmers that Turner could absolutely rape.— BlackFeet01
- You're right. Second season... But what are you saying Young could get off against Lewis in the post?
Always prepare for the worst.
Ty Lawson would be ate up against our guards. He is fast, that's an understatement. But like John Cheney would say speed kills. I love our guards. It going to come down to match ups. But I'm not going to get hung up on the positions. I think there be times when Jrue is on the floor with Turner and Evan will be the primary ball handler. There will be times when it is Jrue running the show. It's the versatility and they way compliment each other that will make this group special. Is Jrue going to have to work on his playmaking? Of course. Is Turner going to have to work on him game without the ball? Of course. Is Meeks going to have to work on him ball handling and driving? If he is still here yes. But this is the beauty of it all. These guys are good right now. I don't know them personally, but they seem like good guys that want to be better. But to lay out a scenario... Say they play Denver. Jrue or Turner will post up Lawson at will. Would Lawson get the best of them on the other end maybe, maybe not. - Also i like the Idea of drafting Klay if we were in desperate need of front court help. Lou is supposed to be our small quick guy that can guard smaller guards. I'm looking for him to take more of a leadership role on this team. I was reading the younger players gravitating towards Lou. I see no negative in the back court though. Just the realism that have work to do. i have faith that they will get better and grow as a unit. Within the next two seasons this team will be making a lot of noise. Just get some big men!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!!!
- @chuckw, I think Young is this most intriguing piece to this puzzle. What will his future role be with this team? Doug did say at one point during the season that he sees Thad as a starting sf in this league. Is Thad the piece that gets moved in a sign and trade to get you that big? Rod Thorn also said after the season that he sees Evan being a good player on a winning team (note he didn't say the Sixers, he said a winning team). I expect Rod will shake things up as he did in New Jersey after his first season there. Buckle up folks.— Mattb
- What position is Derrick Rose? He is a scoring PG. We have a scoring PG... all the playing above the rim talk... You have to play on the floor before you can get above the rim. Aren't tired of player relying on athletic ability that have game IQ. I predict this team will beat a lot of teams just by playing fundamentally sound basketball. It won't be pretty at times but I don't care as long as we win.
- I'm pretty sure Turner is 6'7'' -- how is that "getting smaller" at the 3?— Leegles
- Guys, let's forget about personal preferences for a second and objectively evaluate current NBA rosters. If you look around the league most positions have easily identifiable skills that are required.
PG - Most pgs are quick penetrators (rose, Paul, Westbrook, Rono, Lawson, Holiday, Conley, Parker, nash) the few that aren't are steady veterans (Kidd, Bibby. Billups, Miller) who play with stars. Turner is neither quick nor a veteran & as of now is not playing w/a star
SG - most are either freaky athletes (Wade, Bryant, Derozen, Carter), great shooters (Allen, Terry,Crawford, Mayo) or scorers (Gimobli, J. Johnson, Gordon, Martin, T Evans). There are a few like Bogans, Sephalosia, Stevenson who play beacuse they're lock down defenders but those guys are starters in name only & get limited minutes. Turner does not fall into any of the 1st 3 categories, he could be a lock down defender but that's a 25 min/game role.
SF - this is a position where there's a limited # of true stars. If you take Lebron James out of the equation most sf are either shooter/scorers (Durant, Carmelo, Pierce, Gay, Granger, Galinari) or athletic guys who play above the rim (Deng, Kirilinko, Batum, Marion, Iggy, Beasley) Turner doesn't fit either category.
Look, I like Turner I hope he is part of our future but before I put him in the starting lineup he has to develop 1 offensive skill that he does better than anyone else on the team. Right now he's a jack of all trades, master of none.— mtairy1 - I think you have a basic guideline but there are some exceptions Mitch Richmond wasn't a shooter like Reggie Miller he didn't play above the rim like MJ. In his prime Rock was the second best SG in the league. All the PGs you mentioned were high picks going to bad teams they didn't start out playing with star players where they had immediate success. What I'm saying is we have to let these young players develop. We live in a NOW society. Fast food, Instant pudding, Microwave popcorn. Which taste better microwave popcorn or pop corn from you great-grandmother's old air popper that had the entire house smell like fresh popped popcorn. Sometime we have to wait for the best things. That's all I'm saying. and why do we always have to put things in categories. I read an article 15 years or more ago breaking down players, past and present (at that time) whether they were SF, PF and so on. At the end the person had no classification for Larry Bird. He simply said he is a basketball player. And no I'll never compare Turner to Larry Legend, but the point is. He is a player that will do a lot of things for us. Also as far as I'm concerned he is neck and neck with Iguodala at this point. If he progresses imagine what he could be.
- mtairy1: appreciate all the work you put in on your posts, but to be fair to Turner, all comparisons should be against players in their rookie season only and learning a new position. Collins admitted that Turner is best when he controls the ball but the Sixers were initially determined to run him off the ball, which did not work out very well, particularly as his minutes were often limited by early fouls which disrupted his rhythm. He looked and often played like a confused rookie, which does not give him a legitimate chance to show his skillset. I think you underestimate his quickness, his passing skills, his improving defense, and his ability to post up smaller guards. I agree with BigVil that Turner needs to go much harder to the rim, to draw contact or dunk, as too many shots of his were put back in his face. In the playoffs, Collins ran him more at the point, with Holiday, a better outside shooter, off the ball, which seemed to work well. We cannot really determine his skillset until his plays another season, in my opinion. Kate Fagan has been blogging her opinions on players, but we have not yet heard from the one voice that counts: Doug Collins.— chuckw
- "...but if you move forward under the premise that the point guard position absolutely belongs to Jrue Holiday,"
How about challenging that premise? What frustrates me the most in the assumption that Holliday is a superstar waiting to happen. I think that is very questionable. He does not have a PG mentality. He does not have great court vision which means he doesn't set up others that well. He also has a knack for stupid turnovers. He also had a worse rookie year then Turner. He is certainly a fine young man, and could become a good PG. But maybe he would be better at the SG. Maybe Turner and Holliday could have success together as combo guards. I don't have the answer now, but let's not just automatically pencil him in as a PG and not examine all the options.
— blah - I understand you concern but you realize no one will ever be completely satisfied... Here is the question.
Would you rather have a PG that gives you 20 and 7 or a PG that gives you 13 and 10
Lets see how many people are paying attention this after noon. - Blah: I agree with you 100 percent about Holiday, although, even Collins has admitted that many of the young point guards coming into the league tend to look shot first, pass only when a shot is not available. I think what hurt Jodie Meeks this season was the inability of Holiday to get him the ball in the right position, if at all. There were many times when Meeks began red hot, then did not see the ball or would get it when not in a good position to shoot, a point that BigVil has made about Meeks not getting enough good looks. Once again, Kate Fagan is giving her informed opinions, but the one voice that counts is that of Doug Collins.— chuckw
- Turners 6'4. 6'5. Lebron had him by a good 3" as long as we believe the measurables management gives us (brand 6'9") we will always be at a disadvantage. Our problem is as simple as this.. ACTUAL v LISTED! That mavs laker series. TREES WERE EVERYWHERE! Gasol Bynum dirk chandler odom peja. All on the court at the same time looking eye level standing shoulder to shoulder. Was turner standing shoulder to shoulder with lebron? Actual v listed. Barkley was listed at 6'7. He's 6'4.— combocancer1975
- Cousins was the pick the Sixers should have made. They needed a center but it's to late for that to happen. Turner is best suited as a pg but that won't happen here. He can't play the 2 because he can't shoot and not as quick as a lot of 2's. He is better at the 3 and at6-7 is still good size at the 3. He is quicker then a lot fo 3's and can drive and pass. If he can work on his mid range shot he can be like the older version of Grant Hill just quicker which is effective.— sportsgenius99
- Cousins would have helped us more. I think Collins is looking for players that accept what he is teaching. Cousins' attitude would make a person not want to come to work. Drama, unnecessary drama drains the life out of people. He just got rid of Dalembert who was unhappy with his role. Why would Collins want to be bothered with that if he has a choice.
- combo: perhaps you should email Kate Fagan for her estimation of Turner's height, as you, alone, have questioned it.— chuckw
- actually I think leagles brought it up. Everyone know NBA add an inch or two to the height. Cousins probably would ha
- actually I think leagles brought it up. Everyone know NBA add an inch or two to the height. Cousins probably would ha
- Big Vil, you're actually making my point with the 2 names you brought up. Richmond was a flat out scorer, back in the Run TMC days Hardaway was the ball handler, Mullins the shooter but neither was as strong and could finish like Richmond. Bird was a flat out shooter and an under appreciated passer. Both brought skills to the court that no one else on the team could match.
I can't find one offensive skill Turner has that someone else on the Sixers doesn't do better. Finish at the rim? Iggy and Thad. Spot up shooter? Meeks & Lou. Quickness & ball handling? Jrue & Lou.
I may be coming off as a Turner hater but I'm not. He just needs to realize this is the NBA, Illinois and Iowa aren't on the schedule. If he wants to crack the starting line-up he better work on something in the off season that Collins can point to as a reason to have him on the floor.— mtairy1 - Take the dunks out of the equation. Just looking at his production, when he got significant minutes his stat line was nearly identical to Iguodala's. He isn't blazing fast, but he is deceptively quick with the dribble. He isn't afraid to take big shots. He finish after contact. I know you saw King James guarding him. He was giving LeBron work. He is supposed to be a great defender, he is all defense first team. A rookie isn't supposed to get off on that caliber of player.
Having said all that, I agree with you wholeheartedly. He needs work. He also needs to be on the court. When you have two player giving you the same thing take the younger one. I think two year from now everyone opinion of Turner will be different. I think he will be an improved player so much so the team will have no choice but to move Iguodala. - @chuckwagon & blah: y'all don't think Holiday can grow into being a better point guard? It was only his sophomore season, 1st full-time. I mean, it's not like the people who clamor over this guy, talk about how good of a shooter/scorer he is, his percentages this year were average. Which I mention because y'all like him as an off-guard, but again, he's not someone I believe would thrive being a shooter, he's a slasher.
@BigVil: you gotta give me more than that. There's plenty more intangibles to making that decision, aside from numbers.— BlackFeet01 - Of course there are. but this experiment I just want to know what type of PG is preferred. It's just to prove a point. Answer please.
- This year's draft is not good at all. I wouldn't trade a current Sixer with value for any draft pick. Instead, focus on a current NBA player on a bad team that might become available after the draft. Wouldn't JJ Hickson make more sense to trade for than Cleveland's 4th overall pick? Or, a trade for Andrew Bynum?— Philly Dom
- chuckw, you're right comparing Turner to those players would be unfair because he's just finishing his rookie season. The purpose of the list wasn't to compare him to those players. The purpose was to look at the 3 positions, show the skill set of NBA starters at those positions & determine if Turner's skill set shows he's ready to start at any of the positions.— mtairy1
- @BigVil: I honestly cannot answer that question, based on numbers alone. What if player x, is getting his points on 42% shooting, and player y 49%, or vice versa. What if the 10 assist guy, is averaging more turnovers, than the 7 assist guy, or vice versa? for real, I cannot just choose one guy, over the other, just from bare stats.— BlackFeet01
- I understand you want a thorough analysis. The fate of the world didn't rest on your answer bro. LOL I just trying to prove no matter what time of PG we have someone will have an issue. Those career stats were Rose 20 & 7 and Jason Kidd 13 & 10
- mtairy1: I am not sure we know Turner's skill set because he was jerked around much of the season, his first. Some posters before the draft pushed for Favors or Cousins because they knew Turner needed the ball in his hands most of the time to be successful, and with Iguodala and Holiday around he would not have the ball in his hands a great deal. Yet the Sixers needed a two guard and tried to make him into a two guard where he clearly looked lost, running around with his hand in the air calling for a pass, often when not open, or forcing shots when he finally got the ball, and then when Iguodala was hurt, Collins gave him opportunties as a point-forward, where he had some success, primarily at the point. I would argue that until Iguodala is gone, until we see the off-season improvement for Turner, and until Collins decides on his own plans for Turner, we really don't know what the Sixers have with him. BlackFeet01: yes, Holiday can improve, but so can Turner and ultimately in my mind, would they be better as combo guards, rather than simply point guard and two guard? I think Holiday has a better outside shot then you give him credit for. I would also love for Kate Fagan to tell us the actual height of Turner, because if he is, as Combo insists, only 6:4 then he is not a three.— chuckw
- @BigVil: I didn't try to imply that my answer rested on the fate of the world, or any stuck-up manner in which your possibly suggesting, I just gave my honest opinion.
@chuckw: pre-draft measurements have Turner at 6'6. I don't think that pre-draft measurements lie. If they say Nowitzki's really 6'10, then I'd think that there measurements are legit.— BlackFeet01 - I was just mess with you man. Your my dude I don't think your stuck up at all. I just meant it was just a general question nothing serious.
- Turner is still a rookie because Collins refused to play him. Turner is the only guy on this team that can get his shot. I would trade Iggy. To get him off the team I would also trade Holliday. The best you can hope for him is that he turns into Billups. The only thing is this isn't the NBA where Billups was in his prime. The league is stacked at PG and Holliday will always be 8-10th far as best PG. He can't stick quick PG's and has trouble with the athletic one's like Wall and Rose. Bayless destroyed him. This is what you do. Trade Iggy. Move Brand with Holliday. Draft Josh Selby. Let him and Turner both bring the ball up. Selby is just as athletic and a great scorer like Rose. I'm telling you. He's going to be a 6'2 Rose. He already shoots way better than him. So he can also slide off the ball. Let Speight's and Thad start and see what they got. It will be at least 5 years before this team can challenge seriously in the East so you might as well start looking at a 5 year plan. Iggy, Brand and Holliday aren't taking you anywhere. I know you guys love Holiday but compared to the other pG's in this league he looks like he has and Iggy career ahead of him. Nice player. Never an All-Star or Superstar and will always lose to the better PG's. I can see the Sixer fans falling in love with him and him being here for 8 years like Iggy and you wondering why you never went anywhere.— Bush Destroyed America
- @BushDestroyedAmerica: Holiday's a great defender, not All-NBA yet, but he's legit, and the best two-way PG from the '09 draft( I classify Evans as a 2). So he had a few bad games on d, bfd, every great, or even perennial All-NBA team defender has their moments here and there, and he's a sophomore.— BlackFeet01
- @BigVil: I love Jason Kidd, REALLY do, one of my all-time fave 1's, he's an ultimate leader, great defender, makes the most impossible passes as much as, or even more so then Nash. But I gotta take Derrick Rose, ONLY because of Kidd's horrible percentages, and Rose is growing into a solid defender himself. If Kidd puts those numbers up, with like at least a 46% fg percentage, then Kidd's a no-brainer for me.— BlackFeet01
- @BigVil: talking about this for some reason, makes me think of the original AI. I just think that if he could've put up the numbers he did, while shooting around %50 from the field, things would've been so much different for him (even with his suspect defense).— BlackFeet01
- I think if a big man took as many shot Iverson did maybe he could hit 50% it's hard for someone to put 25 FGA shooting jumpers and knock down half of them. Kobe and Ray Allen are 45% career shooter. Our pal Iguodala shoots 46 but takes less shots. Things would have been different for him if respect the game. Everyone loses a step. Iverson is the Jake LaMotta of basketball... and that's sad
- bushdestroyrdamerica, I respectfully disagree with a number of your points
1. "Turner is the only guy who can get his shot"...Have you seen Lou Williams, Thad Young? I would also say Holiday and Iggy are better.
2. "I would also trade Holiday" Most experts agree that he's a player and something to build around. It's way to early to give up on Holiday
3. "Selby is the next D-Rose" I was a big Selby fan on the AAU circuit. I told everyone he was just as good as Khiry in 11th & 12th grade. Then he went to Kansas and did nothing. Couldn't even crack the starting lineup. He looked lost. If he had trouble transitioning from HS to college what makes you so sure he'll step right in as an NBA star?
4. "Let Speights and Thad start" Speights? Really? He has a nice shot but plays no D, doesn't rebound and isn't tough. There's a reason he played behind Horford, Noah & some dude named Richard at Florida.
— mtairy1 - lol, just pretend my 18:24 comment wasn't posted, I didnt think my 1st one would make it, usually they don't when I see the "reviewed for publication" bs— BlackFeet01
- @BigVil: I don't think it was out of the realm of possibility for Iverson to have better shot selection, and increase his efficiency. Look at Chris Paul. Sure, he doesn't shoot NEARLY as much as Iverson, but he's hella efficient. If Iverson would've played like a PG, after all, that's what we drafted him as, he'd have been more efficient, and may have stayed in one place longer, imo. Of course, he didn't have much help, so that xplains some of it, kinda.— BlackFeet01
- yeah but 50% is a lot though.
YO>>> I'm the 100th comment do I get an award or somethni"..... I'm just sayin' - @BigVil: yeah, u get a free pass to punch Stefanski in the ear, LOL, jk— BlackFeet01
- In the beginning of the season I compared Turner to Harden and was ridiculed by some posters. I think what Doug did with Evan was the right approach. Too many players today come into the league and because they are a high draft pick feel that the minutes should be theirs. Doug brought Evan up the old fashioned way and he will be a better player for it. Look at James Harden's rookie season. He had an up and down year, but gave the Thunder valuable minutes in the Lakers series and gave himself a platform to build on for the coming year. He came into summer league this year with an agenda. He abused Evan Turner, (like I have never seen a player abused in my life) and was out to prove to his doubters that he was worthy of his draft position. This year Harden has been and unbelievable asset to the Thunder and is a key piece to their run. Evan has to go into this off season with that mindset. If there is a summer league, he needs to come out and dominate and show why he was the 2d pick and I feel that he will do that. I am sure this year was humbling for Turner, but lets hope as Kate stated that it makes him that much hungrier to work on his game and take it to the next level.— Mattb
- Mattb, I like the comparison. They have different skills (Harden's a much better shooter) but they are in similar positions, most people don't realize Harden was the 3rd pick. OKC was smart to bring him along slowly, he still doesn't start. I wonder why people are so quick to rush Turner into the starting lineup?— mtairy1
- WHY do the sixers think that holiday absolutely remains at point? COULD he be a BETTER shooting guard, especially considering turner can't shoot?
I think holiday is great, but WHY should they not switch positions? not just because "that's what the sixers want".
consider what the eagles have done to philly football writers. they don't talk about what they think should happen, they mostly say, well "that's not gonna happen, so let's not talk about it." like, should eagles fire reid? "well, that's not gonna happen so...". well they may not do it, but i'd still like to talk about how they should.
I want to know what SHOULD happen and why.— fishtown charlie - Make Turner the point or get rid of him.— pedge
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John Mitchell is in his second year covering the 76ers for the Inquirer after joining the paper in November 2011. He covered the Washington Wizards for the Washington Times from 1998 to 2008. He's also worked at the Philadelphia Tribune, the Wilmington News Journal, Courier-Post, Trenton Times and Elmira Star-Gazette.Born and raised in West Philadelphia - not too far from Will Smith - he graduated from Overbrook High School the same year the 76ers won their last championship. He's a proud graduate of Howard University and the proud father of two sons, Jared and Jordan.
ABOUT MARC NARDUCCI
Marc Narducci has served in a variety of roles with the Inquirer since beginning in 1983. He has covered the 76ers as a backup and a beat writer. In addition, Narducci has covered everything from the Super Bowl to the World Series and a lot in between. Narducci also has a true passion for South Jersey scholastic sports, which he has covered for many years.
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