Eagles: Where's The Talent?
Philadelphia Inquirer Sports Columnist Bob Ford writes about the Eagles, the Phillies, the Sixers and the Flyers.
Eagles: Where's The Talent?
Bob Ford, Inquirer Sports Columnist
The guys who identify talent for professional football teams and put their suggestions in front of the head coach and general manager are not the guys who get their names on the covers of magazines.
They are the guys, however, who get their teams on the covers of magazines.
Whether the players are found at the NFL Scouting Combine or on film of their college careers, or on flashes they show with other team, the assessment of those players is what makes the real difference in organizations.
The Eagles director of player personnel is a man named Ryan Grigson and, more than likely, you have never heard of him. He was promoted to this job by new general manager Howie Roseman not long after the 2009 season, and was in place for the 2010 draft, along with a new director of pro personnel and a new college scouting chief. All of those guys are qualified and all, including Roseman, work hard to get the right players on the roster.
There are other considerations, of course. Finding a gem in the lower rounds of the draft or by signing undrafted players as free agents can be a very cost-effective way to put together a team. That's always welcome.
Although the Eagles had a lot of injuries and many bench players were forced into larger roles than expected, the team that finished the season against the Packers simply wasn't that talented. If you consider Andy Reid the CEO of the football operation, that is his fault, which was the subject of a column earlier this week.
Against the Packers, 10 of the 22 starters came into the league either as 7th-round draft picks or as undrafted free agents. That seems high and you can make the observation that perhaps the Eagles spent too much time picking the low-hanging fruit. I tried to make that point in one of those Noah Coslov hostage videos.
Look specifically at the defense (and I included Joselio Hanson as a starter because the Eagles play a nickel as their base defense more often than not). Among the group that played against the Packers, Juqua Parker, Quintin Mikell, Hanson, Dmitri Patterson and Antonio Dixon were undrafted free agents and Jamar Chaney, Kurt Coleman and Moise Fokou were 7th-round picks. That's 8 of 11 starters. Too many.
It's no wonder the Eagles' defense allowed the most points of any defense in the Andy Reid era. You can scream about Sean McDermott all you like. He didn't have any talent to work with by the end. It's almost a miracle the team got as far as it did. Was it a successful season? In this video, Marcus Hayes seems to think so. I'm not as sure.
I do think it's obvious the Eagles have to do a better job of making sure the depth on the roster is not just comprised of low-budget fill-ins. That might mean some hard decisions at the top of the roster if the salary-cap money is going to be spread around, but it will also mean the team doesn't end up relying on a bunch of guys who sneaked into the league by the back door.
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Vote: Eagles: Stay or Go?Comments (49)
The Eagles seem to have taken a lesson from the T.O. era - don't get any prominent FAs. They also seem to have decided they don't want to draft talent either, especially on the defensive side. While they always play up their draft choices, it has been clear for years they really want mediocre guys.— 4thand10- In 12 years, has this regime drafted dominant defensive player? Andy tries to cut corners at certain positions, he does it in his teams salary structure, in the free agents he signs, and I think he even does it in the draft. he looks for type at certain positions. he did it at WR forever, goes for a type of player rather than a guy with huge upside.. It's a joke. And those shortcuts, haunt him when playoffs come and they are in a tight battle against another quality opponent.— gee1971
- To be honest, I did like Corey Simon. I think he was a top 3-5 in his position for a while. Other than that, not much. — rvb2321
- The Eagles often tout themselves as being great talent evaluators by stating this very fact but I like to turn it around when I hear it. I think gee your early round picks are huge busts that they cant beat out 7th rounders or undrafted free agents.— rvb2321
- Thanks Bob, for basically repeating verbatim what I've been saying on these boards for months
- I agree the Eagles' D needs more early-round talent, but injuries had more to do with the starting defense against the Packers.
Early round draft picks:
M. Patterson-1st
B. Bunkley-1st
Ernie Sims-1st
B. Graham-1st
Asante-4th
Nate Allen-2nd
Stu Bradley-3rd
That's 7 out of 11 supposed starters in the first 4 rounds.— BrenReg 
Comment removed.- BrenReg, out of this list none of them provided the impact they are expected to for being picked that high with the exception of Asante Samuel and Nate Allen, and maybe Bradley.— cleansports
- Not sure I understand what the article is trying to say. It has a picture of a 6th Round QB who may be the best in history, then says starting late rounders is a bad thing. Who cares where they are selected or not selected. Production is what counts, and the D did not produce consistently this year.— PhillyPhantastico
- welker, woodhead, and green-ellis were all undrafted. don't really care that coleman and chaney are from the lower rounds. we need guys who can play and we don't seem to have enough of them.— notch44
Eagles do appear to look at lower cheaper rounds a little too much....but then that's Banner's doing with the frugal budget $ and how they assign $ to certain positions (ie LB). The veteran 1st rounders Patterson & Bunkley are solid, not spectacular. Sims was cast off from....the Lions...so 'nuff said there...Graham hit the wall so to speak because the NFL is not the Minnesota Gophers each week & then he hit the IR....we all know that Asante was brought in to pick balls...Nate Allen was learning on the job before the IR...Bradley looks too fragile now too many injuries & he couldn't cover swift tight ends anyway. So, surround these guys with undrafted & 7th rounders and you end up with a disaster on D with the injuries...plus an unproven Asst Coach thrust into the role of Head D Coach who apparently lost the notes while tutoring under the great Jim Johnson. Red Zone Defense stats don't lie!- Since Reid has been the coach, we've heard that the organization most values the offensive and defensive line positions and the cornerback positions. Where are they now? Despite high draft picks for both lines, both lines are mediocre. Samuel, a free agent, is at the top of his class, but how good are the other defensive backs? Linebacker "has never been seen as an impact position". I guess that Laurence Taylor, Brian Urlacher, Clay Matthews aren't impact players. I believe that the biggest problem in the Eagles organization during the Reid ere is the lack of a strong, independent, knowledgeble GM responsible for player selection.— Mandela
- Bingo! — coloradoeagle
First Off them rounds do not mean anything because at the end of the day you are judging these players in the draft by hype and the combine. There were some great players they were all americans in college, but did not do well in the combine and got dropped in the draft. Eagles talen scouts suck. Need to hire Buddy Ryan as a consultant on how to draft good defensive players. The eagles also need to realize that speed does kill, but not in the red zone. In the second round I say draft Casey Matthews.- PhillyPhantastico the point was that it's great to find a gem or two in the later rounds, but building your entire starting defense from the bottom of the scrap heat isn't exactly a recipe for success... Roseman and his staff targeted last year's draft to do a lot of bargain bin shopping, which is fine for depth purposes and infusing younger players during a rebuild. Now (pending the new CBA) they are going to need to target free agency to get some actual players, by all accounts there is going to be a ton of talent to be had, and the Eagles should have the coin to make a splash. Even after franchising Vick and extending Desean, their payroll is still in the bottom tier of the league. They really need to take a long hard look at the roster this offseason -- stop paying for marginal production (I'm looking at you Ernie Sims, Nick Cole, etc), stop waiting on 'projects' to pan out (I'm looking at you King Dunlap, Moise Fokou) and get some honest to goodness players in here
- What lazy, lousy reporting. Let's not bother doing any research...let's just get an idea and type up some blather.
@Notch is right on. The New England Patriots (who at last check were pretty good) have 21 undrafted free agents, 8 7th round picks, 4 6th round picks and 6 5th round picks on their roster. That's over 50% of the team.
Gee - let's duplicate the Washington Deadskins personnel approach - they're loaded w/ former 1st round picks.
Stupid article.— NC Philly - Since Reid became the defacto GM (remember, Tom Modrak was the GM for Reid's first 3 years, the Eagles draft has been pretty bad. For every Brian Westbrook and Trent Cole, there is Matt McCoy and Broderick Bunkley, among many others. It's fine to get players in the lower rounds; not everyone on your team can be a 1st or 2nd pick in the draft. But it helps to have the people that are doing the talent evaluating do so competently. Does anyone think that this organization does this? As long as Reid and Banner are in charge, nothing will ever change. Shortchanging important positions, trying to show how smart you are drafting and signing players, and the net result? No Super Bowl again. Must be McNabb's fault though (btw a Tom Modrak pick).— mjc1
- I have VERY little faith in Andy's drafting ability. Bunkley, Patterson and McDougle were all first round draft choices and all STINK! The jury is still out on Brandon Graham, but from little we did see, color me NOT impressed. Take the reigns away from Fat Andy, as his misses greatly outweigh his draft hits.— Tar Heel 1
- Who cares where and how the talent comes as long as we get it. Bottom line, whether it's the draft or FA (draft and undrafted), the FO isn't getting it done. Some nice picks on offense (Maclin, D-Jax, Celek, Shady, Westbrook, etc.) But far too many misses, especially on defense. For every T.O. signing, there was a Mark Simoneau. I also agree that we've invested so much (FA, draft, $ etc.) on both sides of the line that its a disgrace. FO is lucky they had Mc5 in his prime to paper over cracks and guys like Runyan/Thomas who don't grow on trees. This year Vick saved their bacon.— DennyP
To say Reid can't draft a talented roster is idiocy. This team wins, and winning is the bottom line. They won last season and this season despite a larger than normal amount of serious injuries. So yes, you could look at the team that lined up against Green Bay and say too many of them are UFA's or low picks, but as was pointed out earlier, a lot of them were replacements for injured players who were higher round draft picks. This is a very young team that is winning as they learn the Pro game, and that's rare. This draft I expect to see an emphasis on the O-line and defensive backfield. The returns of many injured players, like J. Jackson, Weaver and Bradley will surely help, but as I look around at the NFC East I would bet that the Eagles win it again next season, and only an idiot would disagree.- It's great to be a critic. Let's blame Andy Reid for not picking 11 guys in the first round every year.
Bob Ford was clearly an undrafted free agent. He has no talent.— Section 730 - Reid cannot select talent , design a scheme, or make adjsutments on game day.......Fire HIM......He got lucky with DeShawn and real lucky with Michael....so stop crediting him with anything.....— nuggett
- Reid cannot select talent , design a scheme, or make adjsutments on game day.......Fire HIM......He got lucky with DeShawn and real lucky with Michael....so stop crediting him with anything.....— nuggett
- DUDE THE EAGLES NEED TO SIGN NNAMDI ASOMUGHA AND DRAFT SOME O-LINEMAN AND D-LiNEMAN AND THEN THEIR A REAL SUPER BOWL CONTENDING TEAM I JUST HOPE THEY DON'T LET US DOWN LIKE THEY DID WITH PEPPERS!— xNBD-BlackCharger94
- PART II
Not only 7th rounds and undrafted - the other problem with Reid is undersized lineman and strategy of picks. Example, Graham which cost the Eagles a 1st and two 3rds?!. Couple that with the 4th rd pick they gave for Trapp. Thats 4 picks for a Defensive End. In addition, Graham got knocked on his As.. every other play. Great motor so what, NO SIZE!!!
Its over, Reid is what he is, and there's no changing someone who is in denial and stubborn. In denial and stubborn when he constantly ignores the reality of a balanced offensive, when the world is telling him that he is predicatble, and even other x-coaches say the same thing in a less offensive way. LAURIE where are you with this, where's the accountablity. Get you head out of the sand.
— lerze77 - The quality of draft selections has been all downhill since AR won the power struggle with Tom Modrak!!!— PortCity
- All I have to say is we drafter Freddie Mitchell when we could have had Reggie Wayne,Chad Ochocinco,Steve Smith and T. J. Houshmandzadeh
We all know this, Ford. Half of us have been saying this in this very place for a long time. You can't win in this league if you misfire over and over in the draft. Eagles are abysmal at evaluating defenders. It's as if they're using a dartboard to decide who to pick.— jpk- At it's best, talent evaluation is a freaking CRAPSHOOT! Out of every 10 "cant miss" types, at least THREE won't stick with anybody after two years in the league. I think quite a few of our early round picks have been at least good enough to be WITH the team. Not too many teams can say that! And let's give SOME congrats to (what's left of) our "D".....I thought that the Pack was gonna score 30 or more on us with that present defense. Who the hell knew they had a GOOD RB ready to roll?? Hell, I'll bet nobody on THEIR team thought they could RUN the damn ball. While our "D" DID give up enough to lose, the win certainly was deserved for THEIR "D". Our guys played their HEARTS out, but they just weren't good enough. And it won't improve much this off season. Here's hoping though that our O-Line DOES get a STUD on RG or RT for next year. I keep imagining V-7 behind the line that kept McNabb upright for all those years.....wow. Our talent is in the "skill" players group....but to keep that group rolling, the O-Line MUST be fixed...first, BEFORE the "D". Here's hoping.— TBear
- The Eagles talent evaluations stink because their philosphy is wrong, for some reason they seem to prefer undersized players all over the field, especially D. Line, linebackers, receivers and running backs. Everyone knows that so what kind of restrictions do they have on their player personnel people. I think it is obvious that they do. Why do the Steelers, Giants and Pats win SB's, look at their players.— BCRock
- The Eagles need to make the offensive and defensive lines a priority. As the lines go, so goes the team.
A good offensive line makes both passing and running easier. A good defensive line that can generate pressure on the offensive backfield and close down running lanes makes the LBs and DBs a lot better.
I agree we should try to get that free agent DB from Oakland, but if we're going to focus our roster upgrades, that focus should be on the lines, plain and simple.— Watching and Waiting - Once Ray Rhodes' defensive picks were gone, and except for one good draft (2002), Reid on the D side (and O line except for Runyan,) has been a bust. The eye for talent is atrocious and as has been said, much is related to philosophy and corporate attitude. This team is too small and too pass happy. If JJ once was cutting edge, it is not so now, OR if you want undersized fast players, they better be GOOD, like Freeney. Ironic, in the big McNabb years, O line and Defense (averaging 15.5 ppg against)were great. But Reid REFUSED to run and get good skill players (Westbrook fell into his lap as more than a specialty player.) Now the opposite is true, excellent skill players, except for misuse (McCoy) and nothing else.
I do not trust this group to build a team or even depart from a failed philosophy of what a team should look like. If Reid had been in the strong AFC rather than an extremely weak NFC these years, he's be the Texans. And gone.
We are in for a long process of rebuilding a team that is hollow at center and no real direction. 5 years minimum til these guys are gone. And even then Laurie, Banner don't have what it takes to really commit in a football sense.
I'm about to leave the wagon,people. I don't invest in jerks, as I refused to do with the Phillies until they reversed course.— kenkap 
Time to stop all the trading down for value. We did that last year. A few good role players, bu TE, #4 WR. #1 and #2 need to show more. &s may be good picks too. But T'eo, Sapp and a few others added nothing. Now is the time to go for some quality. Time to trade up for impact players and fer cryin' out loud get some LBs. Pouncey and Matthews will be a good start IMO. DB and RT in FA fer sure. Can't invest 20 mil in Vick to see him squashed every week. Enough with the quantity, get some quality.— tpizza- years of horrible drafts, yeah get some smaller guys on D, worked out great...years of bad drafts has destroyed this team— tooltime
- It's as simple as this: When you constantly tout how you find "gems" in the later rounds and in the undrafted mix, it more often than not means that you are missing on the top talent in the early rounds. The Eagles specialize in this, but look what happens in a playoff game against a good team; your late rounders and undrafted go up against first to third round studs and get beat. It's not an exact science, of course, but it usually works out that way.— Domenic
- People of Philly don't fall for what these writers tell you. Just like players know who can play Exec's know who can Exec and around the league the Eagle's and Patriot's are being viewed as genius's for dumping all the high priced talent before the lock out (yes there will be a lockout). They are viewed as in the position to dominate there leagues for the next half decade. Around the league people where shocked Reid got his team to win the East with that D and all that too young talent on offense.— phillboyinhawaii
- This is an interesting point. The roster is brutally thin when it comes to bonafide, high priced talent. This is an optimistic perspective, but one that needs to be balanced by the failures of Graham, Bunkley, Patterson, Sims etc.
— Nuutron - It's not as simple as Bob makes it out to be. First, more than a few teams miss on early round picks. No one is all that good at predicting who will do that well in the NFL. Second, you put the best people on the field. If that means an undrafted guy like Jason Peters, or Antonio Dixon, or a 5th rounder like Celek or Cole, so be it. They play like early round picks.
Where we should quarrel with the Eagles is on their recent love of trading early round picks for later rounds. Just how many rookies do you need? LeSean McCoy is an indicator of what a 2nd round pick can bring. On the other hand, when you pick a Matt McCoy in the 2nd, you have to admit the mistake and spring him loose quickly. But it doesn't mean you trade next year's second, just because this year's was wasted on a small linebacker who shouldn't have been drafted at all. I still think the sum total of the top brass's actions says they don't know how to build a Super Bowl roster. Sure they want that, but when push comes to shove they're building an exciting roster that can compete for a playoff spot. Eagles' fans are too smart to put up with that approach. Cynical we may be, but we do know football.— armchairGM - It's going to be a long off season..— MJPD345
- Comment removed.
- O man I love the comments on these Eagles boards, you would think they just finished 1-15. I am way too lazy to do the research on this but I'm sure that the Eagles are right in the middle of the pack when it comes to number of players on their team who are drafted in whatever round, however you want to phrase it. The only thing that matters is production and there's no guarantee you can find it in any round.— PattheBat
- Comment removed.
- Since Cole was a 5, and Sims was brought in for a 5, really they only had one starter higher than a 5, Patterson.— jimmyj
- @'NC Philly': great lead. I don't want to bury Ford, but other than the name of Ryan Whoever, what is actually new here? And the timid, say nothing (but criticize Reid) approach by the collected media in this town is what allows the Eagles to stuff their roster full of sub 3rd round picks. The Evil Empire does it. The Mizz Noise Machine does it. Reid is following orders - can anyone look at his background and character and not see that? When will someone in this town hunt down the Lurie/Banner tandem and force THEM to explain their failed talent processes? Stop talking about Reid. Blame Lurie. Link LURIE's name each night to Eagles failure. Drag his prissy name through half the mud you've drug Reid and he'll be out in no time with graphs and Hollywood films to explain what the Eagles are doing. CRITICIZE THE RIGHT PEOPLE, you dolts. (And Ford, this includes you.) I am Oppressed.— Nuutron
- Hey Nuutron---be careful what you wish for. You don't want Jeffrey to become a Jerry Jones, do you? — Eagle_1960
- E1960, Jones does not bother me. He obviously wants to win, spends tons of money to do it, and takes great pride in a franchise with a great great history. His major problems are simple: 1)He fell in love with Romo and 2)He can't pick a good head coach. I'd take Jones any day if that meant there was one person we could relentlessly question about the way talent is signed to this roster. Lurie is a punk Hollywood coward who hides behind Banner and Reid while raking in millions and millions. He is the little wuss that needs to be taken to the woodshed. I am Oppressed. — Nuutron
- Interesting question: nuture vs. nature. Hey, they were a banged up team, with mid level talent who overachieved largely due to the stability of the coaching staff and their grit down the stretch. We need some linebacking help and a few big men on the line. They continue to draft small lineman, not sure why. The O line was banged up and can't find replacements for all Pro tackles like JR and TT overnight. Vick needs to be able to fend off a blitz. DMacc was better at screening off. Wait till next year!— ctvince
- Where is the talent? DeSean Jackson. LeSean McCoy. Jermy Macklin. Bret Selek. Most teams would give their left arm for those players.
As for the defense, they shut down the Packeres in the third quarter. This did not help the Eagles.
You are writing retread columns Bob. For Eleven years you blamed everyone but McNabb who choked and folded every year and if a fan screamed at your obvious inability to evaulate a player, you screamed racism!! Philly fans don't care if the quarterback is a purple alien from Mars - as longf as he wins. We don't want excuse. Excuse are for losers. It's win or get out of town and Andy Reid has not won for 12 years. Bill Cowher would love to coach the Eagles. Too bad sportswriters don't have to renew their contract evcery year. There are very few I would keep.— marioP - Kolb lost one game to the Titans, (6-10) Vick lost to the Vikings, (6-10) and Green Bay, (10-6) If you are the expert you clami to be on pro football, evaaluate the quarternack on thos games.— marioP
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About this blog
Bob Ford has been writing about Philadelphia sports since 1981, and is still trying to figure it all out. A former beat writer covering the Phillies and the 76ers, Ford became a general sports columnist for the Inquirer in 2003, following in and occasionally falling in the deep footsteps of Bill Lyon, Frank Dolson and many distinguished others. He comes to the Philly.com blogosphere after award-winning success as designer/editor of the fabulous Pen & Pencil Club softball blog. Likes: Palestra, inside-the-park home runs, sunny days. Dislikes: phony people, cloudy days, rewrites.
Reach Bob at bford@phillynews.com.
Bob Ford
Inquirer Sports Columnist
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