Why they should still pass health care reform, and why they won't
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Why they should still pass health care reform, and why they won't
Sometimes people really do get what they deserve in this world, and make no mistake about it, the Democrats deserved to lose the special election for that U.S. Senate seat -- and yes, the stupidity of calling it "Ted Kennedy's seat" was one of the many reasons they deserved to lose -- in Massachusetts. They deserved to lose because Martha Coakley was the latest in a series of lackluster political hacks or, in her case, zombies that the Democrats have tried to foist on the public lately, mistakenly assuming after their victories in 2006 and 2008 that the letter "D" was worth its weight in gold.
But they also served to lose because of some pretty rank incompetence at the top, from President Obama and the people who've been poorly advising him. For starters, as badly as America needs substantial health care reform, it was just as daring a gamble for Obama to decide to push health care reform in 2009 as it was for George W. Bush to invade Iraq in 2003. There are huge differences, of course -- one was immoral, while the other is not -- but politically both gambled their entire presidency on risky moves that other presidents would not have done; Bush failed, and Obama certainly appears to have failed as well.
But the worst part for Obama is that if you're going to make a gamble like that, you better be prepared to back it up -- and he clearly was not. Ironically, insuring all Americans -- as noble and desirable a goal as that is -- probably isn't the biggest reason for overhauling healthcare; that would be reducing the costs and also making the system more fair for everybody. Health care reform has features aimed to do exactly that, yet the majority of Americans opposing reform cite its cost. Indeed, the Obama administration allowed this bill to be defined by its "cost" ($848 billion) but not by the amount that the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said it would reduce the deficit ($130 billion). That is the worst sales job I've ever seen.
Beyond that, Obama failed to provide the broad moral leadership needed to convince Americans -- who've long supported measures like a public insurance option -- that it was his unwavering belief that this was the right thing to do. Successful presidents from FDR to LBJ to Reagan have rallied support and won passage of programs that in some cases were even more controversial than health care reform -- not so much through reason but through emotion, selling tough decisions on the courage of their convictions. To say that type of leadership did not come from the White House would be an understatement.
Today, everyone's trying to figure out what the Democrats are going to do next. I think it's like those pre-Oscar stories where a film critic has his "should win" and "will win."
Should do: As others have suggested, the House Democrats should approve the health care bill that was approved by 60 senators in December and send it to President Obama for his signature. Having done that, the Democrats can -- and should -- amend certain aspects of the health plan in the fall under the so-called reconciliation process, which would require only 51 votes. However, the Dems should be scrupulous about only using reconciliation for its intended purpose, which is to deal with aspects of the bill that affect the federal deficit.
I know, I know -- many people think it would be political suicide for the Democrats to enact a health care reform bill after the Massachusetts Senate race, since unrest over the issue was clearly a key reason the party lost its 60th Senate vote. In the real world, it's political suicide for them not to enact the bill. There are two reasons why. No. 1, they already either a) never had or b) lost at least this November the votes from people who don't like health care reform, and who would be outraged if the bill is passed and enacted now. But if they do nothing, they will also devastate core Democrats, who will stay home or vote for the Green Party or do anything besides getting fooled again by their now former party. No. 2, remember what we were saying above about the courage of convictions? These Democrats told voters they would fight for they believe in, and the voters responded by electing them to Congress. So now they won't fight...because of a special election in one state? If that's their courage-of-conviction level, then they deserve to lose just like Martha Coakley did.
Will do: Will the Democrats actually do this? Of course not. We are talking about the 300 least courageous people in America here. It seems like the current plan is to make Olympia Snowe the de facto president of the United States. (Hey, finally a woman president!) I predict Obama and the Dems will push for tiny things that Snowe might find acceptable -- presumably the universally loved ban on insurance companies denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, and little else. They may even get Obama's likely successor in 2013, Scott Brown, to go along with that -- but it won't prevent a Democratic bloodbath in the fall.
Which they deserve, if they do nothing.
There's a lot more to be said about the future of progressive ideas and the future of America -- but one more thing worth mentioning under the heading of Massachusetts. The Democrats need to think long and hard about the kind of candidates they put up and the kind of campaigns that they run. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see weeks ago that Scott Brown was going to win this election. Despite some neanderthal political ideas that the Dems never exploited, Brown had an amazing ability to connect with real people. The Democrats, meanwhile, continue to find the only people in all of New England who know nothing about the Boston Red Sox (remember John Kerry's "Manny Ortiz" gaffe?) Martha Coakley may be a very able attorney general, for all I know, but I also know she came across as aloof, arogrant, elitist -- all the worst stereotypes about modern Democrats that, at least on a candidate level, seem too often to be real. It doesn't matter if the Democrats have policy ideas to help real people if they don't have real people to sell them. If the Democrats really can't find candidates who drive a pickup truck and can talk to regular folks, then it's time to blow their party up.
Comments (137)
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Oh, all of a sudden, wingnuts are concerned about the civil rights of prisoners? Funny, how flexible those principles can be. You're aware, of course, that such things happen right here in Philadelphia? As always, I await your principled outrage.- There's nothing more fun than a sore winner, Bill. Also, your comment makes no sense since a) Coakley lost and will never be heard from again and b) did I say anywhere in that post, "O, if only America had the great Martha Coakley in Washington the world would be a better place"? No, I did not. Meanwhile, Scott Brown is headed to the U.S. Senate and hasn't explained his vote against 9/11 responders. He IS relevant now, unlike Coakley.— will
- The only way to get real health reform is to let the whole system crash and burn, so that the rest of the medical and drug industry get as desperate as the corporations who have to pay for workers' health premiums. When half of the doctor's offices are manned by people whose job it is to collect from patients (with and w/o health care), when hospitals close, when Medicare and private insurance collapse because they have to make up the difference for those underinsured and not insured, and fewer people bother to get care outside of ERs, and people realize the size of the bonuses made by health insurance and pharm execs, there will finally be a movement to change the overpaid, inefficient system that is bankrupting us.— atp2007
I actually agree with you Will, having Government ineptly run healthcare certainly would be immoral.— rudytbone- Susie, to suggest that "wingnuts" are not concerned about justice is naive at best. No one of any political persuasion wants to see anyone railroaded and justice denied. Coakley's pandering in keeping a wrongly accused man behind bars is indefensible.— rudytbone
- Hillary in 2010?— Delaware Jim
- Sorry for the typo. Make that "Hillary in 2012?"— Delaware Jim
- Will I think you're still missing the point. People who work in the private sector are tired of ceding more money and more authority to a government that is incompetent, wasteful and driven by the need to redistribute that tax money to special interest groups who can help them get reelected. To that end, they voted yesterday to raise the debt limit another $1.9 trillion (THAT'S $1900 BILLION FOLKS) for the second time in 3months. Let's make government bigger because of the great job they're doing with the 50% of my money that they already take.— tr88
- Sorry, make that "proposed" raising the debt limit. It will pass.— tr88
- "it was just as daring a gamble for Obama to decide to push health care reform in 2009 as it was for George W. Bush to invade Iraq in 2003." So your solution, "should do", is to push an unacceptable plan in 2010. Move on, fix it later? Incredible. And make sure they do it behind closed doors.— AngryWhiteMale
- Will, topic for tomorrow. UN Climate Scientists Nobel prize winning paper riddled with errors. Not the UN. Not the Nobel Committee. http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/features/science/82147082.html— tr88
- Dems (and R's) had better start fighting for what their constituents want instead of what "they" believe in or "they" will be gone. Scott Brown was in touch with them in deep blue MA. The liberal democratic Machine Pol was not.— tr88
- Republicans, by political definition, are out of touch with what the people want. They just do a better job of appealing to the base natures of fools. No different than the Rabbis stirring up the crowd against Jesus and for Barabbas. Scott Brown will last the rest of Kennedy's term and then be gone.— HandNik
- "He IS relevant now, unlike Coakley." JFC, I come back to this insanity? Please, please tell me you see the irony in this after repeatedly posting on Beck and Palin?— RG
Will - thank you for maintaining the defiant sneering of the left. It will give us all about 9 months to practice saying "S E N A T O R T O O M E Y".... say it out loud now.... How does that sound? Get used to it.— Mr. Smith- Will, think about this - you can't get fresh, drinkable water by dipping a bucket in the ocean. What makes you think "policy ideas to help real people" are coming from "aloof, arrogant elitists"? Those policies are just as flawed as the people who keep coming up with them because they start from the wrong premise - that "we know better than you do what you need".— Mirror
- Hey Susie from Philly, last I heard, the Democrats have been running this area (Philly) for the last 40 years...How is that you tie in the GOP to rights being violated in our back yard, when the GOP has had very little say in the judicial make up of the local courts?...Wake up and open your mind...— will_wonders_never_cease
Perhaps, Will, you and others who share your belief system, i.e. the current administration would be better served calling yourselves what you really are, socialist. It's not a bad thing, it's just truth. Honesty is what the American people want. It's not evil to want a large government, it is evil to lie about it and go behind closed doors to make it happen under the guise of the old democratice label. Be honest, that's all. And, please stop spewing hatred about conservative thought. We are entitled to our belief system as well. We're just more honest about it.- Comment removed.
- Healthcare should be scraped. Big goverment has no business in people's personal health matters or decisions. 80% of Americans are happy with their health insurance. They don't want to be taxed, pay higher premiums, or go to jail if they choose not to buy it. Healthcare Reform should be handled by the states and it is the responsibility of each state to make sure their citezens are insured. The people have sent a clear message to Washngton- they do not approve of the back room deals, perks for special interest groups or extra funds for Nelson's vote, drug and insurance companies and union groups. They want governors and state elected offcials who are competent enough to balance their budget to regulate insurance premiums and make healthcare affordable with no pre-exsisting conditions for all of their citizens. Maybe it is time to hold the State officials responsible for medicaid/welfare fraud and medicare waste so they can afford health insurance for the uninsured who are truly in need. Why pass a 2000 page bill that affects every American without them knowing what is in it? If Obama is looking to shove HC down our throats for scoring points for his political agenda, why doesn't he instead focus on getting America back to work so they can afford buying their own insurance. Isn't it clear Americans are not for his socialistic liberal left agenda? Hard working Americans have insurance and do not need to worry about their free loading brothers and illegal immigrants taking advantage of the system. The voters in MA woke up the rest of America and it was all about the arrogance of this adminstration and their hasty push for Healthcare.— American Girl
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- When asked if he would like a three-party system, Kurt Vonnegut replied that he would settle for a two-party system. We are ruled by a rich corporate class. We'll get the crumbs when its members decide.— Yonder Hero
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- RG-Bingo.Post of the week.— Yankee Air Pirate 12
- HandNik also seems to forget that Romney, a Republican, achieved health care reform in Mass.— RG
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- Obama-mania in the words of Roy Orbison: "It's Over, it's over".— WriteWinger
- Coakley was a loser from 'jump street'! The problem we have in this country is that those in influence are greatly out of touch w/ real people and worse, they don't care. Coakley is just as you said, aloof, arrogant and pompous,etc. Most people of 'ordinary' kind never relate to the likes of such aloof elitists yet both parties continue to present them as leaders. Ugh and barf. Please, please would someone of genuine leadership and character emerge...from either party! Our country is continuing it's slide into a disgusting amateurish abyss......We have no direction and no leadership in either party or Congress, or, sad to admit, no strong confident leadership in the WH either. I thought he was a fighter and would develop leadership. Instead I hear cool speeches and promises but NO action. He must get rid of his advisors (Emanuel, Ax, etc.)as they may know how to win an election but they have no concept how to run the WH or any idea how to communicate and sell programs to the public. Hire the best PR firm NOW! GET MAD dammit and fight for what you believe in or can you say ....."one term". And I voted for him ....but still wouldn't vote for the incompetent stooge from Alaska, ever!— stoneman
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- "Beyond that, Obama failed to provide the broad moral leadership needed to convince Americans -- who've long supported measures like a public insurance option." Given such "long" support, why hasn't it been enacted into law "long" ago? Can't blame the Rs. Could it be that you're wrong about that "long support"?— pj katauskas
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- The bottom line is that without health care reform, this country will be on a decline, future retirees will not receive the benefits that they were promised, and the nation will go bankrupt. This also means no banking reforms. The very activity that caused the financial collapse that destroyed the retirement savings of all amercians are still legal and are still going on. It is very risky to but stocks or depend on your 401K for retirement without reform. Time to buy Treasury bonds and dramatically increase savings if you don't want to spend your retirement in a homeless shelter.— MikeP
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- Right on, bag o. And the Olbermans of the world make contortionists look stiff.— pj katauskas
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The right would do well to also learn from this election. Right now the country is in an anti-incumbent, anti-Washington, anti-Wall Street mood. They want change, and in the Democrats they see a party in power and doing nothing to help every day people and is in bed with Wall Street. But only a year ago they wanted change from the Republican policies of the past 9 years. If Republicans read into this election that people want back the George W. Bush years they will find themselves losing elections like the Democrats are now. People are scared and worried about the direction of the country and sick of inside the beltway politics; they want something done now and have seen nothing this past year but an inept Democratic administration that was long on promises but short on delivering. In polls Republicans consistently post extremely low numbers in terms of how favorably they are viewed. In this election as well as the gubernatorial elections of Virginia and New Jersey the Republicans ran smart campaigns casting themselves as outsiders who will "change" Washington, they did NOT run on the record of the last administration. And the Democrats helped because they, as always,have governed as ineptly as they run campaigns.- "As others have suggested, the House Democrats should approve the health care bill that was approved by 60 senators in December and send it to President Obama for his signature. " Won't happen, Will, the Senate version has no blocks to federal funding of abortion, and the Stupak amendment in the House prohibiting such was the only way the House version got passed. Beyond that, a GOP win in Ted Kennedy's seat got the attention of blue dogs and even the likes of Snowe and Collins - it's one thing to be in a safe Dem House seat like Pelosi, it's another entirely to have to win a statewide race, and Maine is in the same neighborhood as Mass. The public outrage at the Dem DC establishment is palpable, and only slightly less at the GOP DC establishment. GOP incumbents can either embrace reform or have targets on their back as well. It goes beyond progressive and conservative, and now is about do you care more about middle class voters or special interests? The real lesson of MA is that the special interests who supported Coakley (such as Big Pharma) couldn't hold what should have been a safe Dem seat against middle-class anger at politics as usual.— db_cooper
- "People are scared and worried about the direction of the country and sick of inside the beltway politics; they want something done now" Maybe people should stop looking to the government for solutions to their problems. The solutions, and their unintended consequences, are often worse than what they purport to solve.— RG
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- Two things: 1.) The CBO said that the new health care plan would take $130 billion off the deficit if constructed in its current form which means that the benefits of the health plan dont start until 2013/2014 while the taxes kick in before the ink drys. Thats a key point you left out. 2.)You mention that House Democrats should approve the Senate Health bill in its current form. You talk about the political suicide but what that also does is confirm many American feelings on the liberal-left. They will jam things down your throat whether you like it our not because "they" believe its good for you. Clearly the polls and recent elections have said otherwise. Its the typical elist, arogrant attitude that you want to see eliminated from your party— jerseyfresh22
- "1.) The CBO said that the new health care plan would take $130 billion off the deficit if constructed in its current form which means that the benefits of the health plan dont start until 2013/2014 while the taxes kick in before the ink drys" Past that, it also assumed that the bill was followed to the letter, which means Medicare cuts. Cuts that are so politically unpopular they have been kicked down the road for years.— RG
- "Maybe people should stop looking to the government for solutions to their problems. " I think people want government to address the problems they have created, such as bailouts, unfunded government pensions and entitlements, and excessive spending. And those problems are largely a bipartisan creation - for example, it is truly bizzare to see the GOP fight cutting Medicare, but the GOP is doing just that for political expediency, instead of being willing to address head-on the funding gaps in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. On the other hand, the Dems are getting a taste of their own medicine after their demagouging the entitlement issue for decades - but none of that confronts the real issue - this country is broke and getting more broke, but the DC establishment (and liberals like Will) refuse to acknowledge such. We can't even pay for the entitlements we have (Social Security is going in the red this year), but liberals like Will want to add MORE entitlements? That is truly the definition of insanity - and that is why the GOP has a better chance of harnessing the current political anger than the Dems.— db_cooper
- "They will jam things down your throat whether you like it our not " There was a great Tea Party sign "If you ram it down our throats in 2009, we'll ram it up your [Dem donkey logo] in 2010." And that is already happening.— db_cooper
Which is it batty? Obama the capitalist tool of Wall Street, or Obama the socialist tool of the Weather underground? The voters are confused. Will blames Obama, but heck, maybe part of the problem is the mixed message from the wankersphere.- db, I mostly agree, but that will take actual backbone, as it would be wildly unpopular to cut entitlements. Won't happen until states and fed go totally bankrupt.— RG
- "Which is it batty? Obama the capitalist tool of Wall Street, or Obama the socialist tool of the Weather underground? The voters are confused." What makes you think the two are mutually exclusive? Large corporations often like big government - it creates barriers to entry for competitors, and access to corporate welfare and bailout capital to socialize risk as profits are privatized (but spread generously to politicians).— db_cooper
- MSl, its both. He's continuing the crony capitalism of the past few decades, and adding some social welfare as well. For example, forcing people to purchase insurance benefits the insurers who support "reform". Subsidizing these pruchases with increased taxes is the socialist/redistributist aspect.— RG
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- i love how Dems believe universal health care is a moral issue while killing the unborn isn't.— palmyra21
- Great point palmyra21!— WriteWinger
- Handnik, Brown got elected by INDEPENDENTS. Dems outnumber Reps 3-1 in MA. Let me help you with the math. That makes it impossible for him to win without the massive support of non-Republicans. Are you calling independents all fools? Or is anyone who doesn't agree with you a fool? I'm just trying to understand your point. If he is so out of touch with the people, how did he manage to garner the votes of so many people who do not identify themselves as Repubicans? I would like to commend you on your attempt at equating Martha Coakle ( or is it Obama) with the Messiah and Scott Brown with Barabbas. Who is out of touch? Loon.— pjsz1261
- "They will jam things down your throat whether you like it our not because "they" believe its good for you." . . . . . . Jeez, and here i thought health care was a good thing. I guess when clean water becomes as costly as health care, the right wing will know what's best. Maybe attack Antactica and bring democracy to the seals and penguins so we can exploit their ice. Instead of that evil lib notion that the people's health and welfare should be a shared responsibity for the nation's security.
- JOBS JOBS JOBS Oh where are the JOBS??????????????????????????????— WriteWinger
- "Instead of that evil lib notion that the people's health and welfare should be a shared responsibity for the nation's security." Shared responsibility? Why were unions plans exempt from the Cadillac plan tax? No, no, no, this reform was meant to have the helathy subsidize the sick, the young sub the old, and the rich sub the poor. All against their will.— RG
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- I dare say Wilbur it's time for a spot of tea, don't you think?— WriteWinger
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- "Jeez, and here i thought health care was a good thing." Coming up with an insanely expensive and convoluted bill that raises costs for most people who already have health insurance is not.— db_cooper
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- The Big Bank tax will be passed on to customers, and banks will lower their reserves (liquidity). And this money will be used to cover the losses from Detroit and AIG bailouts.— RG
- What happened to all the talk about the GOP having become a regional party, with no possibility of winning national elections, nor statewide elections in the Northeast?— legatus
- Oh goodness, SCOTUS just overturned alot of campaign finance rules and regs. Libz are having a bad run this week.— RG
- "Brown had an amazing ability to connect with real people." Sounds like a male Sarah Palin.— AuntieEm
- Will Bunch- meet reality- reality meet Will Bunch........you left wing crack pots are hilarious- what will it take 30 democrats going down in 2010 elections? which will happen. The people spoke and spoke loudly- you made fun of the Tea Party- bad move- they are the people's voice- Not whacked out San Francisco liberals.....— Manny Trillo
- WHERE IS THE "Marginalized majority" guy???? Are you there?— Manny Trillo
- Rememebr liberal Obsession about the split between republicans who werent' "pure enough"? They missed the real story, the real split between the HuffPO left and the cnetist Clinton "New Democrats." The left wing has a death wish. Great. I swear they havent changed in 40 years.— tr88
- NEW COMEDY CHANNEL-.....MSNBC- too funny-— Manny Trillo
- Raise your hand if you fell for the "HOPE AND CHANGE" line and voted for a 1/2 term, inexperienced senator, who was excellent at reading from a Teleprompter?— Manny Trillo
- "Coming up with an insanely expensive and convoluted bill that raises costs for most people who already have health insurance is not." . . . . . Sure, and that's why I support a public option as do most Americans, and certainly the voters of Mass. Brown got 15% of his votes from Obama voters who want a public option, that's about 8% of the total vote, and the reason Brown won.
- You know once you pull the fawning press veneer from this Obama dude, there's nothing but an empty suit.— WriteWinger
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- "Sure, and that's why I support a public option as do most Americans," Can you produce a recent, non-partisan poll with a sample of likely voters that supports that claim? The last thing I want is the government in charge of my health insurance, and once a public option is created, it would evolving to being single-payer for everyone.— db_cooper
- "Pelosi rejects Senate version of health-care bill." Today's WAPO. SCOTUS just struck down campaign finance ban on corporations using general funds for corporate speech. And then there's Tuesday's Mass. election. Tough week for Ds/libs. No tears from me, though. The system worked, to quote Janet N out of context.— pj katauskas
- "The Big Bank tax will be passed on to customers, and banks will lower their reserves (liquidity). " Only the Obama Admin could berate banks for not making more loans while simultaneously crafting a tax disincentive for doing such.— db_cooper
- db, good point. But then again, this is the same president who said he was puzzled why the private sector wasn't increasing their hiring. And this is the guy who's supposed to lead us out of this recession?— pj katauskas
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- "But then again, this is the same president who said he was puzzled why the private sector wasn't increasing their hiring." While creating massive uncertainty as to what their future health care, energy and tax costs were going to be. The best Dem job program would be for them to commit to doing nothing.— db_cooper
- Mass' reform worked swimmingly. Highest cost plans in the country and health care spending is still rising faster than state GDP.— RG
- "Can you produce a recent, non-partisan poll with a sample of likely voters that supports that claim?" . . . . . . Odd that you'd want a poll of "likely voters". I guess un-likely voters don't pay taxes or get sick? Anyway, I meant most Americans, and the CNN/ORC poll of 1/8-10/10 indicates a solid 54% approval for a public option. I can't help that you fear the private sector can't compete with a government plan.
- If Barack Obama cannot sell the country on "progressive" ideas, then its safe to say nobody can. Liberalism is officially a failed ideology. Liberals will have you believe they are the only ones with compassion. This is the biggest lie of all time. Take a look at the donations pouring into Haiti. I personally believe that our citizens are capable of finding ways to care for each other without a massive govt buracracy(sp) deciding things for us. Barry O and the gang have officially ended our belief in the possibility of clean politics. The Nebraska, Louisiana, and Union purchases were prffo positive, and why Scott Brown is now a Senator.— tjm333126
- Bay State health insurance premiums highest in country Rein in health costs, Massachusetts urged http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/08/22/bay_state_health_insurance_premiums_highest_in_country/ Pay for care a new way, state is urged Hospitals and doctors may be put on budget http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/17/pay_for_care_a_new_way_state_is_urged/— RG
- Now Obama wants to Nationalize the student loan program and take away the profits from the banks. Sure, take more lending away from the banks and soon he'll be bailing out them out again! He claims he wants the profit when half of the profit is sweeped away by defaults. What does this do for the American student paying 6.8% (Unadjusted during recession) on student loans and are about to get hit with his new taxes from his overspending "to create jobs"? How many kids will be on deferrment when they graduate because they can't find a job? If they do manage to find work, they will be so debt ridden by trying to survive they will wind up working to pay the government or go in default. But of course, he will create more jobs of overpaid government workers to taek over administering these loans and the cost of an educational loan will go up making college not affordable. Is ths his answer for the future of America?— American Girl
- Wow, the point was completely missed here. Dems losing Kennedys seat is DEVASTATING. A message was sent that the people do not want this type of massive health plan in any way, shape or form. Reform is needed, but not in the fashion Obummer and the liberal loonies want. This election SHOULD tell the Dems that people dont want big govt ramming things through. Protect the people, but stay out of their lives. As far as invading Iraq being immoral, that is your opinion. I will never forget those planes flying into our buildings, and anyone who was a threat at that time should have been taken out..Saddam included.— jphil
- "Liberalism is officially a failed ideology." . . . Well, if you say so, then it must be official. "Liberals will have you believe they are the only ones with compassion." When it comes to public policy, those folks who genuinely lack compassion tend to use conservatism as their excuse, and they also tend to be the most vocal about it, e.g., Limbaugh's declaration that we needn't give to Haiti because we pay income taxes. As for personal compassion, I wouldn't be a liberal if I felt that compassion wasn't a natural instinct we all share. I'd probably be a conservative instead.
- "As for personal compassion, I wouldn't be a liberal if I felt that compassion wasn't a natural instinct we all share. I'd probably be a conservative instead." Instead, you want to coerce others to feel and pay for the compassion you speak of. Which isn't really compassionate of their situation, is it?— RG
- "Now Obama wants to Nationalize the student loan program and take away the profits from the banks." . . . . . . Question is, will the GOP take the bait and start defending banks? Of course.
- "Question is, will the GOP take the bait and start defending banks?" Talk abotu binary thinking. Not wanting government to socialize student loans=defending banks. both sides have did enough with defending banks via TARP.— RG
- " meant most Americans, and the CNN/ORC poll of 1/8-10/10 indicates a solid 54% approval for a public option." 54 percent is a pretty slim majority. And once again, likely voters are what matter to politicians. "I can't help that you fear the private sector can't compete with a government plan." Oh, it isn't that they can't compete. It's that employers would dump private coverage for their employees.— db_cooper
- "Instead, you want to coerce others to feel and pay for the compassion you speak of." . . . . Compassion is free, dude, and I wouldn't know how to "coerce" it anyway except by bible-thumping the threat of eternal dangnation. As for health care reform and paying for it, you betcha. That's an issue of more than mere compassion. My health and yours depends on health care access for all.
- "My health and yours depends on health care access for all." Yes, I remember reading about how nations fell because they didn't implement universal coverage.— RG
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- "54 percent is a pretty slim majority." . . . Well, since you put it that way, I guess Americans overwhelmingly reject the idea? And counting only "likely" voters as a basis for setting policy is pretty foolish, don't you think? Policy can create likely voters when push comes to shove.
- "rank incompetence at the top, from President Obama and the people who've been poorly advising him". A lot of people saw this coming last November, glad to see you are finally catching up.— jimmymack
- WILL - I never hear you mention that the CBO does it's analysis on ceratain assumptions the Democrat leaders give. These assumptions (i.e. 20% reduction in Medicare reimubursements) will never come true. Thus this bill will add to the defecit not the other way around like you say— kmjm22
- "Yes, I remember reading about how nations fell because they didn't implement universal coverage." . . . . . Then you must have read about that country that has fallen behind Cuba in average life expectancy.
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- "Then you must have read about that country that has fallen behind Cuba in average life expectancy." Nope, just people who assume that access to health insurance is the sole determinant of life expectancy. However, you cleary have missed how Mass' reform has raised costs and premiums. And lets not even get into Tennessee's disasterous foray.— RG
- I googled the phrase "political kiss of death" and up came obama's mug.— WriteWinger
- "Nope, just people who assume that access to health insurance is the sole determinant of life expectancy." . . . . . In the US, what else is there? No civil wars, famine, epidemics, lack of doctors and facilities, indeed we have the best medicine money can buy. You tell me.
- High homicide rates, high car fatalities, more diverse population with different genetic issues, etc.— RG
- The answer is simple: congress should outlaw obesity, and our health care will be the best in the world, by far.— Mr. Smith
- And jan, thanks for the compliment, "classic." Sweet!— pj katauskas
- "In the US, what else is there? " The best medical care in the world can only do so much for someone who is 350 pounds, diabetic and with high blood pressure, and who keeps on eating junk food and soda while not exercising. Unfortunately, that is a very fast-growing segment of the population.— db_cooper
- "Then you must have read about that country that has fallen behind Cuba in average life expectancy." I guess Cuba has discovered an effective obesity prevention program - wreck the economy with Marxism to where people can't afford to overeat.— db_cooper
- it continues to baffle me that the hypocrit left continues to portray health care as a moral issue, yet supports killing unborn babies. i also love the picture in the article of the lefties, obviously not at work or trying to find a job, that have all the time in the world to waste the day away and look like idiots for anyone with a camera in their hand.— bv437
- "High homicide rates, high car fatalities, more diverse population with different genetic issues, etc." . . . . . Compared to?
- "Unfortunately, that is a very fast-growing segment of the population." . . . . . Okay, blame it on southern redneck living (we know which states lag behind the rest in life expectancy). But I'd note that the state of Mass., as diverse as it gets with its share of homicides and traffic accidents, is 5th best in the country.
- "Okay, blame it on southern redneck living (we know which states lag behind the rest in life expectancy). " I see plenty of wide loads all around Philly. But nice try at making it into a red state issue.— db_cooper
- Here's an interesting breakdown: http://www.webmd.com/news/20060913/top-states-for-life-expectancy MSl, if you want full coverage, move to Mass. Enjoy those taxes though.— RG
- "But nice try at making it into a red state issue." . . . . . LOL, read the state by state comparisons. Are you suggesting that being a Republican has something to do with it?
- "Okay, blame it on southern redneck living" Since you are trying to make it about race (southern redneck = southern whites), perhaps some reality is in order: http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html#Race Obesity by Race/Ethnicity 2006-2008 New Obesity Data Shows Blacks Have the Highest Rates of Obesity Blacks had 51 percent higher prevalence of obesity, and Hispanics had 21 percent higher obesity prevalence compared with whites. Greater prevalences of obesity for blacks and whites were found in the South and Midwest than in the West and Northeast. [end] So tell me again who these groups voted for in overwhelming percentages in 2008? So much for southern rednecks being the core problem here.— db_cooper
- "LOL, read the state by state comparisons. Are you suggesting that being a Republican has something to do with it?" No, you are, with your comment about southern rednecks.— db_cooper
- OBAMA failed in ONE YEAR- amazing. Can't believe a guy who "could give good speeches" turns out to be a failure as President of the U.S. - John McCain must be sick to his stomach watching this epic failure.— Manny Trillo
- From your linked article, RG: "Many of those risks can be avoided or managed. Ask your doctor if you can do anything to help make your life healthier and longer." I love it. Ask your doctor.
- "Ask your doctor." If you eat fast food 4x a week and smoke two packs a day, and need to ask your doctor about changes, then there are deepr problems than lack of health isnurance. Past that, why can't those w/o health insurance schedule a yearly doctors appt?— RG
- "No, you are, with your comment about southern rednecks." . . . . . It's an odd coincidence isn't it? The states with the worst life expectancies are typically "red" AND southern. I see why you'd take ir as a partisan issue.
- Meanwhile, those states aren't complaining. And you conveiently forgot DC, which has by the lowest life expectancy.— RG
- "If you eat fast food 4x a week and smoke two packs a day, and need to ask your doctor about changes, then there are deepr problems than lack of health isnurance." . . . . . . . That's a safe call, and I'd love to discuss them someday, but it hardly eliminates lack of health insurance as a contributing factor.
- "That's a safe call, and I'd love to discuss them someday, but it hardly eliminates lack of health insurance as a contributing factor." Explain Tennessee then. Tried to cover everyone, still has low life expectancy.— RG
- "And you conveiently forgot DC, which has by the lowest life expectancy." . . . . . DC isn't a state, and it's organically part of a much greater metro area (I bet it's burbs do just fine). And they don't have universal coverage anyway.
- VA is 28th and MD is 35th. As for universal coverage, Utah doesnt have it either, yet they do ok. Which shows that other factors are at play.— RG
- Life expectancy for both sexes and all races has omproved by 18 years from 1930-2005. Oddly enough, we never had universal coverage. Accidents are still the number 1 cause of death for those under the age of 34. Not sure if reform would change that.— RG
- It'd be interesting to see how the average life expectancy in the US would compare to other countries if you remove factors such as drug abuse, homicides, traffic accidents, etc. If these factors, which have nothing at all to do with health care systems, were eliminated, I'd would expect that the US life expectancy would stack up very favorably against the rest of the world. (Of course, we'd take these same factors away from the world's stats as well.)— legatus
- Comment removed.
- "Which shows that other factors are at play." . . . . . Right. Just ask your doctor, lol.
- Comment removed.
- "Right. Just ask your doctor, lol." You really don't have a point, do you? You just trot out the tired data on life expectancy, like thats going to convince the public to fork over even more money for subsidized health insurance. "My goodness, we're only living 78.2 years on avg, not the 79.1 that Cuba is! Tax me more and socialize health care so I can get that extra 0.8 years! It can't have anything to do with genetics, eating habits, etc."— RG
- .9 before a math marm corrects me.— RG
- And heck, MSL, if insurance is the key factor, explain how DC has a lower % of unisured than Utah, but a much lower life expectancy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninsured_in_the_United_States#Uninsured_rates_by_state— RG
If I'm a conservative living in a blue state does that mean I'll live longer?? Did Mass. life expectancy just go down??— bird11- Will, this has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the democratic candidate... it was a referendum on Obama's absolutely terrible health care policy.— Bud Fox
- "No, no, no, this reform was meant to have the helathy subsidize the sick, the young sub the old, and the rich sub the poor. All against their will." They already do...it's what insurance is...
- No Bill, guaranteed issue and community rating does that. Insurance is when people poll their money together to hedge against risk, and are charged according to their probability of experiencing said risk. Right now, smokers often pay the same premium as runners.— RG
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