UPDATED: There's got to be a morning after
UPDATED: There's got to be a morning after
I'm waiting for my orders from the Politburo on how to spin this thing -- so you'll have to debate amongst yourself for a bit longer. To be updated...
UPDATE: You probably won't believe this, but I do have an excuse for posting so late about last night's debate. I am still awaiting my instructions from Mr. Soros I was getting root canal done this morning. So, of all the third-rate pundits out there, I'm the best qualified to determine which was more painful: Root canal or watching President Obama's debate performance. Let me put it this way: At least for the root canal they numb you up.
My overall opinion hasn't changed since I wrote it up for "the newspaper" 10 minutes after the debate ended: Obama looked like the one who was half-dead in Denver and Mitt Romney looked like he had too much caffeine (which is kinda of funny because, uh, he actually can't drink caffeine...oops), and Romney clearly won the debate.
Romney certainly won on body language -- which to a lot of people is the most important part of a debate -- but he also won, and this is what surprised a lot of people, in exoressing empathy -- which is very important indeed. Where everybody fell flat in was ideas. Both candidates sounded wonky, but when you peeled back the wonkery there wasn't a lot there for either Obama or for Romney.
Call me crazy but I thought the worst momemt of the debate wasn't Obama looking down at his shoes but Romney trying to explain how his tax cut -- the centerpiece of his campaign -- isn't really a tax cut, but...What the hell is it? Seriously, I think you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that cutting rates while eliminating deductions will benefit the wealthy and hurt the middle class. Why Obama didn't hammer him for that is a big reason why we're all talking today about what a disaster Obama was. You'll be shocked* to learn I've gotten a fair number of emails and calls from Romney supporters gloating about how their man "pounded" Obama. But none of them mentioned any of Romney's brilliant ideas on taxes, jobs or health care. So I guess we did see the same debate, after all.
Most of the time, we all put on a big show complaining that our politics values style over substance. But not on Debate Night oin America, when we make little pretense of admitting that it's anything but a sporting event, only lacking Fox's exploding helmeted robots or an intro song by Pink (but just wait wait a few more cycles). The most famous U.S. presidential debate line of all-time was Ronald Reagan telling Jimmy Carter, "There you go again!" Do you have any idea what the issue was they were debating about? Would it really matter if you knew?
Arguably the second most famous debate question of all time was when Walter Mondale said to Gary Hart in the 1984 primaries: "When I hear your new ideas, I'm reminded of that ad, 'Where's the beef?'"
Great question.
America gets two more chances to see whether either Romney or Obama will ever answer it in 2012.
* Sarcasm.
Comments (175)
Al Gore said it was the altitude in Denver that affected Obama.
This guy was almost the President..think about that.— jmc- Bush won election after complete wipe out by Kerry.
Debates don't matter.— Seed - Firing big bird and constant lies would endear Romney to all Americans.
Romney's credibility will take a serious beating in states where Obama will go after him about his lies.— Seed - Romney's full embrace of medicare coupon program will cost him among all people below 65 year. — Seed
- Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. Hey Seed, you know you are in deep trouble when Rachael Maddow says that Joey Biden will turn this around in his debate with Paul Ryan. — CD75
- If we deduct a point for every lie a candidate told last night, Obama won by a mile. But of course most Americans don't know that.
No wonder Republicans want to gut education - to get and stay in power.— Hamlet - Obama is obviously not too bright.If he is- then lets see his grades from college- that would clear things up no?
He needs those Google Glasses- make them a Mini Teleprompter...— Keep The Change - Obama was not prepared to debate someone that will shamelessly tell one lie after another. Did his staff inform him that he was going to be debating a Republican?— Hamlet
- O got STOMPED. The lib media could not step in and cover for him, thats why he looked like a deer in headlights. O has been and is all glitz and glamor, but no substence. Thats why america is stillin a mess.— mulford71
- No doubt Romney won the debate because he was crisp, energetic and succinct in making his points. Obama seemed disinterested and stumbling over his own words. If you actually listened to the words, I don't think Romney cleaned Obama's clock. But I'm sure will has converted some undecideds. How much remains to be seen. If I remember correctly, both Gore and Kerry won the first debate. Obama will be better next time but we do have a horse race.......this is getting interesting!
— chasing history - Jmc.... I'm with you brother....gore is a maroon!
— bannedrepublican - Look, they are both really good debaters and for the most part it was what one could have expected. If there needs to be an insistence that Romney won, so be it. I am still shocked at how blatantly he deceives the people with outright impunity -- suppose its the price to pay to gain the new GOPs blessing. Chasing I thought Gore crushed Bush in all debates, showing a superior grasp of -- well almost every topic (except big oil know-how and baseball team dynamics) -- but the talking heads disagreed. I personally do not need to have the POTUS rip into Mitt for his absolutely awful policies.— Murrayman
- 4 years ago we were told he was the smartest president EVER. too bad romney didn't ask him what was on his ipod, maybe even a question about his fav color would have put him at ease. maybe joy or whoopie should ask the questions.— rysagr
- I'm waiting for Will's response to this story... http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20121003_Philly_teacher__Students_Romney_shirt_like_KKK_sheet.html— LouDiamondPhillipsheadScrewdriver
- Your column in the DN was a real whine Bunch - especially the title. Reminded me of your 08 debate meltdown when Stephanopolous had the nerve to ask Barry about his terrorist buddy Ayers. Waaaaaaahhhhhh— teardownthisfishwrap
- As I watched Romney tell one lie after another I thought, "So that's what a sociopath looks like."
Even after Obama called him out on his "the president will cut $716 billion from Medicare" lie, Romney just kept repeating it. Obama seemed to be shocked at times. I don't blame him.— Hamlet - Its true, Hamlet -- especially in regard to the 'cut Medicare' bs. Obama at one point was caught kind of looking off camera at someone, as if to say, "can you believe these clowns?", and then stifled a smile at whomever it was. "Firing big bird and constant lies would endear Romney to all Americans." Haha, that's awesome. Did you see the look on Lehrer's face when Mitt was like, "I mean, I like you Jim, but...".— Murrayman
- Lou, I don't condone the teacher's behavior. In fact she should be disciplined. But:
"The student said she also felt shunned by classmates because she reported the incident to the principal.
“I have some friends that won’t talk to me anymore because of it,” she said. “Because I told the principal what happened…they’re mad at me.”"
Yeah, that's why teenagers are mad at her. Give me a break! There is more to this story. I'll bet you $10,000 this kid is one of those offensive, nasty Republicans (learned it from her Dad, I bet). I've met people like this. They call others names and are often offensive in other ways. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if she has a history of racist behavior.— Hamlet - "is one of those offensive, nasty Republicans (learned it from her Dad, I bet). I've met people like this. They call others names and are often offensive in other ways"
Some one call the irony police.— RG - Wow Will, I just watched that on blu ray this weekend with my kids. Hackman and Borgnine were at the top of their game in that one. I'm trying to guess what it must feel like to be working for Preezy's campaign today and I think this just about sums it up:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVFfOOm_GI— Phishface - "Some one call the irony police. "
Oh shut up, $%^&& for brains...— Hamlet - "Oh shut up, $%^&& for brains..."
I guess this passes for intellect on the left.
Oh, those offensive nasty Republicans. Dems like Hamlet are pure hearted. They'd never fantasize about a young girl learning racism from her father.— RG - I've met people like this. They call others names and are often offensive in other ways. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if she has a history of racist behavior.
Oh shut up, $%^&& for brains...
A bit of a hypocrite there aren't you Hamlet?— John Klink - "Did you see the look on Lehrer's face when Mitt was like, "I mean, I like you Jim, but...". "
Yeah, that was some subtle red meat for his right wing supporters - the corporation for public broadcasting got $297 million in 2011 from the federal government. That was said in the context of deficit reduction, but like a dog whistle, his supporters heard what he meant. Silence all voices in America that are not controlled by the mega-corporations.— Hamlet - "A bit of a hypocrite there aren't you Hamlet? "
I've heard the going price for a sense of humor has gone way down since the start of the Great Recession...buy one.— Hamlet - "I've heard the going price for a sense of humor"
Inferring that young girls are racist is a hoot!— RG - I think what Will and the President need right now is a good, old-fashioned distraction to wash away the stench of October 3.— m13sully
- "Inferring that young girls are racist is a hoot!"
Read the article SFB (your new name). The teacher said the shirt was like a KKK sheet. And I repeat, I condemn what that teacher did, but did that comment come out of nowhere? I doubt it.— Hamlet - "Read the article SFB (your new name). The teacher said the shirt was like a KKK sheet."
Can't. Stop. Laughing. Hamlet can't read, yet insults others intelligence. What article actually says:
"During the incident, Samantha Pawlucy said the teacher told her that Carroll High is a “Democratic school” and wearing a Republican shirt is akin to the teacher, who is black, wearing a KKK shirt."
NOWHERE in the article did it say that the shirt resembled a KKK sheet. If you weren't utterly classless, I'd expect an apology.— RG - I stand corrected, SFB.— Hamlet
- Hey, why let a little reading comprehension get in the way of inferring a young girl and her father are racist?
BTW, its abundantly clear you didn't bother to read the article. You quoted the link directly.— RG - To recap:
Hamlet
Can't read
Calls others names while simultaneously whining about nasty Republicans
Thinks its a hoot to accuse others of racism.— RG - National Journal: "Apparently Mitt Romney likes government regulation, loves Medicare the way it is, agrees fairly regularly with President Obama, and does not, in fact, want to cut taxes very much." . . . Seems that Mitt forgot who's side he was on last night.— montani semper liberi
- I just read that story about the high school girl wearing her Romney t-shirt in the "Democratic school". Very telling. I'd also be curious to hear Will's take on that story.— Commentdant_Klink
- Obama isn't a good debater and Romney simply ran over Lehrer speaking last almost every time & running over time. It was a poor showing by Obama anyway you slice it even if Romney piled it on pretty thick.— PhillyGuy77
- The Economy is not Obama's strong suit, really America didnt notice cause we are getting free cell phones.
David Axelrod conceded that the performance aspect was 'not the President's strong suit in these events' but insisted that 'I don't see us adding huge amounts of additional prep time.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2212961/U-S-presidential-debate-2012-Mitt-Romney-celebrates-Obama-aide-admits-defeat.html#ixzz28MC2ZXq3
— Fisher - "Obama isn't a good debater" . . . . . If the debate was judged on substance, Obama probably won, as anyone who has actually done competitive debating (high school, college) would easily realize. But then these aren't really debates - they're more like job interviews. We want to get an impression of the candidate as a person, while mastery of substance is secondary. The impression I'm left with is that Romney will say anything, anything, to close the deal. It's a good trait if you're hiring a salesman. But leader of the free world?— montani semper liberi
- Are we looking for a college professor or a President? Should the skill set match the current needs of our country, or should we judge our Presidential selection on whether we think we would enjoy knocking back a beer with him. I really don't think we need four more years of a known quantity. He cannot even lead a budget through Congress.
Romney is a moderate. He had to be to survive in Massachusetts. MSL, you are a smart person--what is happening right now is what happens in every Presidential election. You run away from your base and to the center. I think the quality that makes me consider Romney is his ability to actually get things done in a partisan environment. Obama has not shown this to me. His prime accomplishment--Obamacare--was accomplished when he had the three branches of government on his side. And he was not even embracing it as an accomplishment until four months ago. Rational people can vote for Romney--that was what was proven on Wednesday night.— Origami - "Seems that Mitt forgot who's side he was on last night."
Well, the National Journal is more of an inside the beltway kind of publication. I'd be happier if The National Review said that.— Hamlet - "Eye Candy" needs an adoration section, otherwise he turns sour.
January cannot happen soon enough... for everyone's safety.— FocusTruthFully - MSL, Romney looked straight into the camera and said, "I think you are all idiots. I'm going to tell lie after lie and you are going to buy them, America."
He just can't resist spitting on us every chance he gets.
And bp, I'd rather be a scumbag than something worse, like you.— Hamlet - Was I the one insinuating the a high school aged girl was a racist, simply because I didn't agree with her brand of politics, or was that you, scumbag?
— bp*philly - Hambrain posted:
MSL, Romney looked straight into the camera and said, "I think you are all idiots. I'm going to tell lie after lie and you are going to buy them, America."
I do not recall Romney saying that doeas anybody else here. But then again when far left libs get their clocks cleanen they just make things up about what the other guy says. It must be a contagious disease. Harry Reid is also doing it today as per this Drudge Report linked item:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/oct/4/reid-misquotes-romney-make-immigration-attack/
— Phishface - "I do not recall Romney saying that doeas anybody else here"
Phish, have you met RG and bp? You'll all be riding the short bus together...buckle up!— Hamlet - So are we to surmise that you're the class(less) bully on said short bus, considering you just attacked a teenaged girl who you've never ever met and accused her of being a racist because you don't like the t-shirt she's wearing.
Or are you just part of Obama's war on women?— bp*philly - nice pic will. the good ship obama slipping beneath the waves. blub blub blub— rysagr
- There's a Double Dutch Bus comin' down the street, movin' pretty fast, so kinda shuffle your feet. Get on the bus and pay your fare and tell the driver that you're goin' to a Double Dutch Affair...— Hamlet
- "Phish, have you met RG and bp? You'll all be riding the short bus together...buckle up!" HUH. Are we even in the same conversation? I think I hear nurse Ratched calling Hammy:"Medication Time" That thin air that Gore is blaming on Preezy's poor performance must have made it's way down Hammy's street.
— Phishface - October 3, 2012: The day America realized the emporer has no clothes.— CD75
- Who rambled more, the Empty Suit last night or Clint at the convention? Obama had the time management skills of Andy Reid last night.— 2ndNlong
- Come on, Phish. All aboard!— Hamlet
- "Obama probably won, as anyone who has done competitive debating would easily realize." Now that's funny!— RufusG
- That's exactly right, phish. Man you're smart. Yeah when we realize Obama gots his clock cleaned, we resort to pointing out what the other guy said. Yeah otherwise, we wouldn't bother. Like this: "ACA puts in place an unelected board that’s going to tell people, ultimately, what kind of treatments they can have" Right, yeah, we're supposed to believe this. Actually the board will be put into place to determine ways to make control cost growth. By law they cannot determine what kind of treatment a patient can have. Oh and also, their recos are not automatic -- Congress, that representative of the people, must review first. Obama of course pointed out all of this. But he didn't growl at Romney, or look at him with menace, so he got his clock cleaned. Pointed out truth where Romney lies = clock cleaned. Fantastic. This is the world you inherit, phish, congratulations.— Murrayman
- "Romney won on body language". Will, was it Stevie Wonder or Helen Keller who told you that?— RufusG
- These debates are not about specifics ....... just ask AL Gore and his specific 'lock box' oratory. Even SNL couldn't resist that one. Romney did what Obama did in the last election. He just wowed the crowd with bells and whistles. Obama, the incumbent had to rely on his track record as president which ........... is truly wanting.
That line by Romney as he looked strait into Obama's eyes asking him why he spent his first two years in office on Obamacare while the nation was hemorrhaging jobs was priceless.— RufusG - I actually kind of think you're third rate, Will but I appreciate your honesty that Romney won. Like you, I care about substance. Romney introduced the point he was going to make, he described the problem and he suggested his solution. I guess we could argue a Romney solution that sounds logical vs. an Obama solution that has and will never work and which is better. Finally like most people, I like a zinger or two that shows the candidate can think fast and not back down and Romney did both on that front. Romney's performance was one for the ages. It might be the biggest throwdown in all the years I've been watching presidential debates.— Phillies2008WSChamps
- As I read Murryman's comments I can only say that he was not the #1 debater on his team . #1 master bater maybe............— RufusG
- I thought it was a bit too wonkish also. That wonkish minutiae was right up Muray's alley, I'm sure. If Romney wins the election you may want to look into other means to stay numb the next four years. I know quite a few of us indepentents that have been doing so the last four years.— Phishface
- Whether Romney wins or loses this election it was all worthwhile seeing the talking heads on MSNBC go nuts last night when their messiah was proven infallible. Nothing like separating Church and State. And by state I mean the sad state of affairs for Obama.
Even as I speak the left has introduced James Lipton .....you know that guy who has the show The Actors Studio to critique Obama's and Romney's 'performance'. Now that's pretty lame if you ask me.— RufusG - This thread is a good example of why there are so few right wing comedians. They can’t tell jokes, and they definitely don’t get jokes. Can you image being at a party with these guys?— Hamlet
- This comment has been deleted. — bil,l atkins
- Hamlet, not true. From Dennis Miller:
Obama keeps looking down at his belt buckle teleprompter.
Now that's funny— Origami - Hey Hamlet I near vomit every time I read one of your posts. I can only imagine if I saw you in person. I'd probably get sick all over your friend too. That is if you even have a friend.— RufusG
- "Can you image being at a party with these guys ?"
You probably wouldn't fit in...I doubt any of them would be cool with some little pipsqueak like you bullying teenage girls, calling them all racists. Loser.— bp*philly - "and they definitely don’t get jokes."
Your jokes consist of calling a girl racist because you were too lazy and stupid to actually read an article? Call the irony police again, Hamlets talking about the short bus after he was called out on his idiocy.— RG - The real truth is that Obama is nothing without a teleprompter.— RufusG
- ===]]] I know quite a few of us indepentents that have been doing so the last four years. [[[===
Independents. Lol!— Talking point sleuth - ===]]] walking around with toilet paper hanging out the back of your pants. [[[===
Another day, another scatologically-themed post from bile.atkins.
I wonder that that's about.— Talking point sleuth - Come on lefties take your beating like men will ya?
— bannedrepublican - I love the black review of last night's debate. They are all up in arms about how disrepectful Mitt Romney was towards the president. Can't be dissing my brother in office or I'll ..... or I'll ..... oh yeah or I'll just vote for the black guy.............like I always do 99% of the time.— RufusG
- TPS can't even get himself out of the toilet after last night's debate. His man Obama pretty much flushed his campaign down the loo after his performance on a stage without a teleprompter. Although his suit looked good............— RufusG
- Shelley Winters crapped the bed in the movie, and maybe Obama did the same in the debates last night. lol.— FletcherT
- It is amazing how defensive the left is after their boy Barry collapsed on stage last night. They just don't get it. Obama can't react or act without his teleprompter.— RufusG
- I love reading the Libs trying to explain away a total drubbing in the debate. Shamster and MSL and TPS face it, the end could be near. Next week Binden will poop all over himself in his debate because he just can't help himself. Obama lost fair and square because he is above all of this. And how dare Romney challenge his record. Get over yourselves.— TKL008
- Ummm, is anybody in the Media just a little concerend about the gas prices? I mean we're closing in on $5.00 a gallon in some parts of the country and the silence about this is deafining— Phishface
- "Actually the board will be put into place to determine ways to make control cost growth" HUH?— Phishface
- Admit it, 0bummer screwed the pooch. Arrogance, narcicism and over confidence did him in. That simple. That and the fact he is an empty suit. He will lose. All the guilty white liberals are starting to see the mistake they made. Assuaged their feelings. Time to grow up.— georgel
- polls haven't move. still waiting. any minute now, here comes the crush of romney supporters. waiting. still waiting....still waiting.
- the worst moment of the debate was romney trying to answer the question on the role of government. it reminded me of when george h. w. bush couldn't show empathy for a struggling working class woman and clinton stepped in and was a stark contrast. romney was rambling and incoherent.
- Liberals are much funnier than conservatives...in the same way children are funny when they try to be adults.— 2ndNlong
- RufusG I'm not surprised it went right over your head and you therefore gained an awful perception of what happened on MSNBC, but what actually happened was, they were out of their minds wondering why -- the POTUS acted dignified and didn't tear into Mitt regarding his unbelievable, just atrocious untruths. Krugman put it succinctly - the deception and untruths are the morale equivalent of a lie. Its that simple. If Mitt is to be believed he is to be validated -- as thinking his constituency, who focused on reaching last night, are stupid.— Murrayman
- RufusG I'm not surprised it went right over your head and you therefore gained an awful perception of what happened on MSNBC, but what actually happened was, they were out of their minds wondering why -- the POTUS acted dignified and didn't tear into Mitt regarding his unbelievable, just atrocious untruths. Krugman put it succinctly - the deception and untruths are the morale equivalent of a lie. Its that simple. If Mitt is to be believed he is to be validated -- as thinking his constituency, who focused on reaching last night, are stupid.— Murrayman
- I used to read Krugman when he was an economics columnist and I actually learned from him. Since he turned into a "political" columnist, he has closed his mind and now foams from the mouth spewing out the same drivel day after day. I am sure you are a Krugman disciple. But his columns on healthcare during the Obamacare were downright amateurish--mainly because he had staked out his position prior to doing his research.
Read the Washington Post fact checking for the debate. Unlike the NY Times, it analyzed the Obama comments as well. Guess what, they both play with the truth.— Origami - Reading the last few threads since the debate, one would think that Romney won the election last night. Obama had a bad night, Romney looked prepared - he has, after all, been running for President for the last 6 years - and all of Goober Nation had their wet dream come true.
Now for the Big Picture: Did Mitt pick up enough undecided voters to win a few swing states? If so, will it be enough to get him anywhere near 270? (RCP has the 'no toss up states' count at 332 - 206). Can Willard repeat his performance? Will Obama repeat his lousy performance? Doubtful. Oh, and when President Obama wins re-election, will whiney Republicans complain that the electoral college "oversampled" Democrats?— wokmaster - Ah, that well known Obama tolerance for differing viewpoints...
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/10/04/naacp-official-obama-campaign-staffer-threatened-me/— Frank S. - you guys should make John Sununu the president of your club. you sure his leading romney's reelection will play real well with the average voter?
- Stephanie Cutter, Obama's strategist and advisor, admitted that Obama's primary talking point ($6T tax cut) was bogus. These clowns in Chicago can't get their story straight.— Mr. Smith
- It's always fun coming on Bunchie's site and finding out what Talking Points Memo told Wokmaster, Murrayman, Hamlet and TalkingPointsSleuth to think and say.— Frank S.
- I do want to give our much beloved Attytood Republican toadies and libertarian extremists credit. Romney's up to abut 35% on Intrade, and they are positively ecstatic. Libz would be panicked right now if Obama were that much of an underdog.
Too bad for them that all their whining about being "victims" has such a negative impact on moderates and independents. If they weren't congenitally whiners and self-victimizers, they may well be able to take further advantage of Romney's recent skyrocketing all the way up to 35%.— Talking point sleuth - " Krugman put it succinctly - the deception and untruths are the morale equivalent of a lie. Its that simple. If Mitt is to be believed he is to be validated -- as thinking his constituency, who focused on reaching last night, are stupid." Murray quoting the Charlatan Krugman. You two are perfect together, Murray.— Phishface
I have ALWAYS praised Chris Christie as a good communicator while most of my fellow Democrats made fat jokes. And no one claims to even being in the same ball park as the "Great Communicator".
I never thought of Barack Obama as a good communicator. From my perspective he has only given two good/great speeches: The "2004 Convention" speech and the "2008 Race" speech. His 2004 convention speech that put him on the map turned out to be a routine stump speech he had been giving in Chicago for years.
It is the 2008 Race speech that currently comes to mind though. On March 14, 2008, tapes from the Obama's personal preacher, Reverend Jeremiah Wright (raised in Philadelphian btw), that were several years old and should have been used as an October surprise were released on the same day as the Bear Sterns bailout (Race used as a diversion from money? Another story that has yet to be told and is not the issue at this moment). FoxNews took the lead in playing these tapes over and over and over and over again (while no one noticed the Bear Sterns bail out, but again that's another story which at this point would only interest historians). It was at this point that Barack Obama gave his second most noted speech...when his back was to the wall.— Cuddles- President Obama favors tax credits for law firms to buy $500 bottles of Champaign imported from France, and caviar bought from Russia for $10,000 per kilogram.— Mr. Smith
- It is little wonder that the Empty Suit's toughest critics are his most loyal supporters. They are the only fools that still believe the myth of competence.— 2ndNlong
"Stephanie Cutter, Obama's strategist and advisor, admitted that Obama's primary talking point ($6T tax cut) was bogus. These clowns in Chicago can't get their story straight."
More nonsense from Mr Smith. First of all, it's 5T - not 6T. YOU can't even get YOUR story straight. Mitt has repeatedly said that he would push for a 20% tax cut. If you do the math, that comes to about $4.8T. Romney has claimed that he would "make up" for that $4.8T by eliminating or reducing deductions, but has refused to specify which ones and how much. He has had multiple opportunities to do so, but has played possum every time. Until Mitt gives details, the $5T tax cut is not bogus. Mr Smith and friends are simply shills for Romney's "promise" to get back to us later on how he would make up the $4.8 trillion in tax cuts with comparable cuts in deduction.— wokmaster-
Drudge is reporting that there is an Obama campaign donor scandel brewing and that it could be huge.— Phishface - Listen to the "Independent" Drudge troll. The "huge story" is a claim that there were many small donations to Obama from abroad. Are you sure they are not from Americans living abroad? They can vote and can legitimately contribute to his campaign. Perhaps that explains those contributions form abroad?
Now, here is one for you Republicans. How did Mitt Romney have his IRA grow to $100 Million? I did some rough calculations and figured that he would have had to contribute the maximum amount each year ($3000 before 2002; $5000 afterward) and have that money grow consistently at 35% per year with no declines in value. This is almost impossible to imagine. Alternatively, his employer (Bain capital) could have contributed money to his IRA to help that money grow. But, if they contributed the maximum, then both his and their money must have grown at around 17% per year, again an amount that seems unrealistic given that the long-term stock appreciation averages around 8% and tha we have had 4 recessions since IRA's were implemented in the mid-1980s. On the other hand, if Bain contributed more than the maximum, then he and they would have violated the law.— wokmaster - Wokmesser-
Why did the Obama campaign proactively suspend the Address Verification System for online donations?
It's common practice to verify credit card transactions, but the Obamians preferred not to verify the sources of credit card contributions. What was the purpose of that maneuver?— Mr. Smith - "but the Obamians preferred not to verify the sources of credit card contributions"
Why don't we wait for the facts to come out? I understand that you and your fellow Goobers are chomping at the bit for an "Obama campaign donor scandal". In the meantime your "caviar and champagne scandal" will do just fine.— wokmaster - Wok,
first you say:
"Are you sure they are not from Americans living abroad? They can vote and can legitimately contribute to his campaign. Perhaps that explains those contributions form abroad?"
And then in the very next post you say: "Why don't we wait for the facts to come out?"
dou you always have aruments with yourself?
— Phishface - Right. I said "are you sure...?" You're in trouble when Drudge or "Rush" doesn't tell you what to say. — wokmaster
- Looks like the chiacage machine is doing their job. The headline uneployment number is now below 8 as many of us "right wing extremists'" said it would just before the election. How did it get there. Why you just massge the "household survey" number to show a montly increase of 873,000 new jobs in sept. This was the biggest increase in that number since 1983. And what scientific method was used? they called people on the phone at home ask them if they are working. There is not a single person on the plant that beleives this number but why let it get in the way of a good headline.— Phishface
- ==]] dou you always have aruments with yourself? [[==
Classic. Wokkie asks whether you're sure about the info - and offers a possible explanation, and then says that maybe we should wait until we have the info to draw conclusions.
Phishy says that = arguing with himself.
What a great window into the mind of an ARt. Saying we should clarify the info before drawing conclusions = arguing with oneself.— Talking point sleuth - Obama looked like someone told him before the debate that if you say anything that makes Mitt look bad I will cut your balls off. What a puss. He could have easily asked Mitt to explain how is it that now all of the sudden he cares about American jobs? He obviously didn't help create any while he was a corprate raider. I think that would have turned the table on Mitt, instead Mitt was on the attack about how the country hasn't rebounded from 8 years of republican policy. Again an easy comeback for someone that isn't afraid to give Mitt a dose of reality, "GWB sunk this economy and ever since I took office the only goal of your party, which got us into this mess, has been to make sure Im a 1 term POTUS. Especially your silver spoon running mate who is the reason that the S&P downgraded our credit rating. So why should the American people trust you, the epitomy of Corprate America and Wall street, and your scumbag running mate to turn this country around when all signs are showing that my policy is working and would work better if the republicans were not hell bent on ruining this country more so that they can reclaim the white house?" Of course he could use better language but the message would be clear. Why would we let the wolves guard the hen house again with the same policy (maybe worse) that got us here?— Atlas
- Or Obama could have simply asked Mitt to name 5 loopholes he will close. Then we could have all watched Mitt stumble on stage for an answer like his boy Perry aka Bush 2.0. Or Mitt would have said what he told Mass when he was running for gov, see me after the election. Which we all know because it is factual history, he lied about everything just to get the office.— Atlas
- Former GE CEO Jack Welch had this to say about the Unemployment numbers:
"Unbelievable jobs numbers..these Chicago guys will do anything..can't debate so change numbers"— Phishface - @high water- Here you go..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/04/cutter_concedes_5_trillion_attack_on_romney_is_not_true.html
— Wiseman6 - Gotta love Mr. Smiths comment -- now its 6T. I must have been out to lunch I thought I read 5? The point Romney made in his retort, of course, out of left field, is that his tax plan will be revenue neutral. The way he needs you to believe this voodoo is that the growth that results will broaden the base, and the deductions and loopholes eliminated and closed will offset the lost revenue. But it won't, according to Tax Policy Center. Romney's response to that? "You've got your studies, I've got my studies..." Yeah TPS, not only did InTrade not move much, Wall Street is still 'pricing in' an Obama victory -- meaning they want to be seen as being due favors. Phish try to keep up. The unelected board will not be able, by law, to make decisions on treatment - and they are beholden to Congress -- which is exactly the opposite of what Romney insinuated.— Murrayman
- Phishface's regurgitation of what he quickly read over at Zero Hedge is hilarious in that -- he can't even regurgitate it properly. His rant clearly shows a lack of understanding of the methodology used to SAMPLE a population (theres that word again) and the process of using that sample to extrapolate meaning. No! Until the day comes where we call every single household to survey them -- it won't be a scientific methodology. Phish what is sample error? Can you go look that up for us and crib what you read and regurgitate here for us -- badly? Phish would you like to give us some detail on how the BLS crumbled to political pressure from the WH to provide a more positive headline number than what would have otherwise been released in the absence of that political pressure?— Murrayman
- ===]]] "Unbelievable jobs numbers..these Chicago guys will do anything..can't debate so change numbers" [[[===
Lol! "Victims" of the big bad media. "Victims" of mean libz. And now, "victims" of the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The whining about victimization is just never ending with these folks, is it?— Talking point sleuth - Oh, and I forgot. "Victims" of the pollsters - except when the pollsters report more favorable numbers. I predict, somehow, if Romney's poll #'s do rise, the whining about the polls will drop off the face of the planet.— Talking point sleuth
- Obama shares up fifty cents this morn at Intrade.— montani semper liberi
- "Phishface's regurgitation of what he quickly read over at Zero Hedge is hilarious in that Well Murray, I did not read it at ZeroHedge but I'm sure they have some wonderful peices tody regarding the fake numbers. Let's just say I do not by the party line. I guess Jack Welch was reading ZeroHedge too, Right?— Phishface
- "Phish would you like to give us some detail on how the BLS crumbled to political pressure from the WH to provide a more positive headline number than what would have otherwise been released in the absence of that political pressure?
Murray, perhaps it's the same kind of pressure that the campaign Jackboots are applying to The President of the South Suburban Branch of the NAACP in Chicago. As per CBS News(Not Rush, Not Drudge, Not ZeroHedge, Not Fox etc. etc.):
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/10/04/naacp-official-obama-campaign-staffer-threatened-me/
— Phishface - "I guess Jack Welch was reading ZeroHedge too, Right?" . . . . Yes, you still have a Jack Welch tweet. We're all impressed, phishy.— montani semper liberi
- The Chicago Way:
"Lowery says he doesn’t personally support the president because he’s not addressing issues important to the black community. He said he was explaining that to Raymond when the Obama campaign official told him, “You know what? I know everything about you.”
"Lowery says Raymond added, “We’ve been watching you, and since you don’t support Obama, we’ll deal with you,” before hanging up."
— Phishface - You guys are doing a victory dance because the president was shocked and stumbled at the non-stop lies coming out of Romney's mouth?
To tell you the truth, I was shocked too. I didn't realize Romeney was such a...what's the word? Oh yeah, scumbag...haha!— Hamlet - " Yes, you still have a Jack Welch tweet. We're all impressed, phishy.
Oh wow, you really got me on that come back zinger Hambrain. Oy Vei, It's 5 O'clock somewhere isn't it? I need a drink.
— Phishface - Apologies Hambrai,
Just realized I got you mixed up with one of the other left wing loons here— Phishface - Ya' gotta love Phishy.
After believing conspiracies about the mean media and the mean pollsters, now he's convinced that the mean BLS is in the tank - rigging the numbers to help Obama out.
He has no actual evidence for this. But Jack Welch said it's true - so he swallows the conspiracy mongering hook, line, and sinker. No evidence necessary. When a daddy-figure speaks, Phishy listens like a good little boy.
Hilarious.— Talking point sleuth - Yeah Tyler Durden has some wonderful pieces over there saying the numbers were massaged because - the numbers were massaged. Actual evidence? Not really. More like pure speculation, based on being a perma-bear. Would you like to speculate exactly how the BLS caved to political pressure to make the numbers fake? Do you have a better alternative to using household surveys? Do you think it cost effective to hire people to survey every single household in the US?— Murrayman
- "To tell you the truth, I was shocked too. I didn't realize Romeney was such a...what's the word? Oh yeah, scumbag...haha!"
Does Romney bully 15 yr old high school girls for the t-shirts they wear and call them racists, like you, hamster? You know all about scumbag...— bp*philly - No problem, Phish. We all look alike through a computer screen.
bp...oh, forget it. Another SFB...— Hamlet - That 873,0000 was such a deviation form the norm, a blind man could see theres something fishy going on. There has never been such a deviation in 29 years. It needs to be questioned considering that there is an elction just a month away. Yes , I do smell a rat as do a lot of other people today. Jack Welch included.— Phishface
- As for the new jobs report .......I've been wondering why I get my morning coffee much quicker at McDonalds. Thank you Mr Obama for creating all of new jobs............— RufusG
- ===]]] It needs to be questioned considering that there is an elction just a month away. Yes , I do smell a rat as do a lot of other people today. Jack Welch included. [[[===
Phishy doubles down. He has no evidence. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Niente. Bubkis.
But the number just "has" to be questioned.— Talking point sleuth - "ould you like to speculate exactly how the BLS caved to political pressure :
Again Murray, read me other posts' regarding the "Chicago Way". My bet it's the same way some middle management career beauraucrat took the fall for fast and furious. The squeeze was put onto somebody who has no job prospects outside of government.— Phishface - Do tell, Phishy.
In your wise caution that demands questioning - how do you theorize that the Whitehouse influences how the BLS acquires their survey data?
Go for it, big fella. We're all prepared to be amused.— Talking point sleuth - ===]]] The squeeze was put onto somebody who has no job prospects outside of government. [[[===
So your theory is that the WH put a squeeze on someone to manipulate the data? How does that happen, exactly. The data are collected as usual, but someone sitting at some computer just uses a few keystrokes to change the results? And they do it because they need to protect their job? So all the data were collected showing one thing, and some dude afraid of losing his job just changes the bottom line of the data?
Right. And you can tell this because the numbers don't look right to you? Oh, and because Welch said it must be so?
Ladies and gentlemen - I present to you the thinking that, unfortunately, drives the Republican Party these days.
— Talking point sleuth - Oh and phish, although the deviation calculation (SD) can be made, the number reported was not a deviation, and so its incorrect to suggest, "There has never been such a deviation in 29 years". You would have to first calculate the SD of that particular statistic, then calculate the latest SD, then compare -- then make meaning of it. In other words, you're a partisan hack, which is nothing new. Theres something fishy going on, let's not get to the bottom of it, let's draw immediate conclusions from it -- for political expediency.— Murrayman
- Obama did so poorly in the debate corporations started hiring again.— 2ndNlong
- Hey guys, lay of of Phishface! Don't you all know he's an "Independent"? Its that independent streak which compels him hang out on the Drudge report all day.— wokmaster
- Heh.
--snip--
However, there has been a relationship between the change in the unemployment rate in the months leading up to the election and how well the incumbent does. The decline in unemployment under Mr. Obama this year since December is the largest in an election year since Ronald Reagan’s re-election bid, when it declined to 7.3 percent in Sept. 1984 from 8.3 percent in Dec. 1983.
--snip--
I can't think of any explanation except that Reagan's WH "squeezed" some no-good government employee at the BLS to alter the statistics to help him in the 1984 election.
Since I can't think of any other explanation - there's no reason to actually look at the data. There's no need for actual evidence as an explanation. None. Zilch. Nada. Niente. Bupkis.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 Run for your lives!
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 Save the women and children.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 It's a conspiracy, it's a conspiracy.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 The only labor numbers that are valid are those that support Romney.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 Numbers that support Obama must be a conspiracy.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 Grab the keys to the bunkers.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 Head for the hills.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 Jack Welch as spoken.
BWAAAAAACCCKKK!!!!!1!!!!!1 It must be a conspiracy.— Talking point sleuth - Phishface, thanks for giving the rest of us a look into your alternate universe.— wokmaster
- Actually, Karl Denninger had a good critique of the report.
This is rather amusing; +114,000 is fewer than the working-age population growth in the household survey (206,000) and yet unemployment decreased.
Huh?
The household survey's unadjusted numbers, however, show some rather interesting figures, none of which make sense. "Not in labor force" increased by 386,000 while "employed" increased by 775,000 a net change off "unemployed and looking" of well north of a million people!
http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=212379— RG - It can't possibly true. It would be good for Obama. And America. I agree. It has to be a conspiracy. — wokmaster
- Denninger doesn't say its a conspiracy. Another person who apparently can't read, and prefers to spout talking points.— RG
- Wok, you're free to use my nickname for RG if you want...— Hamlet
- Here's the quote from RG:
"This is rather amusing; +114,000 is fewer than the working-age population growth in the household survey (206,000) and yet unemployment decreased.
Huh?
The household survey's unadjusted numbers, however, show some rather interesting figures, none of which make sense. "Not in labor force" increased by 386,000 while "employed" increased by 775,000 a net change off "unemployed and looking" of well north of a million people!"
If you aren't saying that 2 or more people conspired to massage the numbers in favor of the current administration, what is it exacty that you're trying to say?
— wokmaster - can't wait til 3 days b4 the election when obama announces he has discovered a cure for cancer and tps is here telling us how great he is. lol— rysagr
- Hamlet, I have a better nickname for RG - Baghdad Bob. The reality of the situation is not as obvious as it appears. Just ask RG. He'll tell you what's REALLY going on.— wokmaster
- Welcome to the third wave economy, y'all.— montani semper liberi
- wok, that was Denningers quote, and if you read the article, you'd understand he's not talking conspiracy. Or continue spouting talking points. At least you aren't falsely accusing people of racism because you're too lazy to read like Hamlet.— RG
- Recoveries follow recessions, I'm still baffled on how any of the credit goes to Obama.— RG
- What talking point did I spout?— wokmaster
- "I'm still baffled on how any of the credit goes to Obama" . . . . That's odd. You never seem baffled on how any of the blame goes to him.— montani semper liberi
- "Not in labor force" increased by 386,000 while "employed" increased by 775,000" . . . . Those two terms are not mutually exclusive.— montani semper liberi
- "Recoveries follow recessions, I'm still baffled on how any of the credit goes to Obama."
Yeah, RG, why should Obama get any credit? I mean, the recovery started on January 19th, 2008! He just gets "credit" when the unemployment rate goes up, right?— wokmaster - Did he personally hire those people? — RG
- Denninger points out that the decrease is due to discouraged workers, yet the LPR increased. In other words, formerly discouraged workers re-entered, found work (awful work - part time, low wage). I don't know he misses that -- hes got his own blog. Also, the headline numbers are adjusted -- they don't merely reflect monthly totals. The point, of course, is to note the trend. Also, 386,000 more people than originally counted were working from -- err -- April 2011 to March 2012. That of course is conspicuously absent from Denninger's account (and Tyler Durden's) and every right wingers.— Murrayman
- I think the big takeaway here is the surprise in finding that RG is still baffled here. Also note the upward summer adjustments that have occurred - ~89K more jobs over the summer than were previously estimated.— Murrayman
- paranoia big destroya. romney's one good news day is over. what's that average? about one good news day a month.
- I think we found our rat at the BLS:
http://freebeacon.com/meet-the-obama-donors-at-the-bls/— Phishface - The upward trend is better than the opposite, but it doesn't change the fact that:
1) At this pace, it'll take another 3-4 years to get UE down to 5%
2) Alot of the jobs being added are low wage
3) The long term unemployed aren't finding work
4) The LPR is still very low— RG - talking down the jobs report. do we need any more evidence that republicans root for america's failure?
- Its not even an estimate beat. There is nothing spectacular about the job report. Its a mild positive. — RG
- Actually, it slightly did beat estimates.— RG
- http://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
The reality is that we Democrats are suddenly in a boat that not only is underwater but upside down as well. If anything else face that reality.
http://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
— Cuddles - mitt's got 21% of the latino vote. he's down the 15% points on women. nothing to worry about until that changes and it won't. plenty of polls show obama has strong support to the tune of 265 electoral votes. mitt basically has to sweep the swing states. unlikely.
- It was the movie theater at the Echelon Mall, now shut down...which is what Democrats will be if we don't find a common theme beyond anti-NASCAR.
..."265", that's what Al Gore said.
PS: Yesterday I stayed out just a bit later to register a few more voters and I actually found a good spot at an auto parts store.— Cuddles