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Monday, May 12, 2008

 

No doubt about it, Barack Obama made a mistake a few weeks back when said that voters in some small towns are "bitter" people who cling to guns and religion. In part, of course, he was wrong for exactly the reason that the critics stated, that it was a weak generalization and that many people go to church because of their affirmative love of God or own guns because of a rural passion for hunting.

But frankly, there's something else. He was also giving a few folks too much of a break in calling them "bitter" and trying to explain it away. Some American voters are not bitter -- but willfully and stubbornly ignorant. You want me to name names? OK, how about Leonard Simpson, a 67-year-old retired coalminer from Mingo County, West Va.:

“I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife’s an atheist,” said Mr Simpson, drawing on a cigarette outside the fire station in Williamson, a coalmining town of 3,400 people surrounded by lush wooded hillsides.

Mr. Simpson may be a perfectly good human being in other regards, but when it comes to this presidential election, in an age where information is readly available, even in rural West Virginia, he is willfully ignorant. You hear the words "personal responsibility" used in connection with issues like crime or the breakup of families, and I agree -- but aren't voters personally responsible for knowing facts?

So, too, with this man:

Josh Fry, a 24-year-old ambulance driver from Williamson, insisted he was not racist but said he would feel more comfortable with Mr McCain, the 71-year-old Vietnam war hero, in the White House. “I want someone who is a full-blooded American as president,” he said.

Tomorow night, Hillary Clinton is going to win a crushing victory in West Virginia, possibly by a margin as large as 70-30 percent. All the cable networks will give it wall-to-wall coverage, and you'll hear more blather about Obama's inability to "connect" with white working class voters -- and to suggest that lack of connectivity is somehow all Obama's fault. But when Clinton's vote total is swelled by the likes of people like this, do you honestly think there's something that Obama could be saying or doing that would get their support?

Look, whoever the next president is, he or she is going to need to fight for blue-collar, working class people, for retired coal miners and ambulance drivers who wants better access to health care. decent wages or job opportunities. I believe a candidate can win and then try to accomplish those things in 2008 -- to be a president for all Americans without pandering to the lowest instincts of some of them.

When the views of some voters like these are based on false conspiracy theories or just a distrust of an American solely because he doesn't look like them, we shouldn't criticize or blame that candidate for not getting their votes. In fact, it's a pretty powerful argument why America needs exactly the opposite -- a president with the ability to overcome such small mindedness, and unmask it for what it is.

Posted by Will Bunch @ 12:47 PM  Permalink | 83 comments
Comments   
Posted 01:53 PM, 05/14/2008
Dwilli
Interesting comments from all. My comment is directed to Molly. Granted all registered voters, regardless of education or lack there of, in no way diminishes a valid concern. The disheartening thing is that there is a demograpaphic of folks that have attached themselves to HRC and to be honest, their ignorance and uninformed comments almost discount their value. Not because they disagree with Barack as POTUS, but because they stand on principles or values that are so unlike the democractic party. You can have a discussion with some, but only if that person has the capability to reason. If you can not reason with them, if you can not help them to understand that their views or principles are well - ignorant and willfully stubborn, then they are lost, and there is no way they will ever vote based on a candidate based on their commitment to policys.
Posted 03:39 PM, 05/13/2008
James TL
Thanks for the post joyfultoo! I would equate Appalachia with Amish communities when it comes to new ideas being excepted or believed. It took the more modern areas of this country a long time to accept that racism and prejudice are foolish and wrong (some people still don't and never will believe this). It's going to take far longer for the more rural areas where extreme religion actual frowns on free thought to catch up. Perhaps Obama's presidency will help. Been in W. Virginia. It's beautiful.
Comment removed.
Posted 10:41 AM, 05/13/2008
Captain Awesome
"IS THIS WHAT THE TEACH IN OUR ALLEGED SCHOOLS NOW ??"

Yes. They also teach spelling.

Posted 09:22 AM, 05/13/2008
pookie
Let's not talk about racism in the north NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Why is it that when blacks vote over 90% for black candidate they are enlightened voters, yet all those who would vote against black candidate are RACIST ?
Posted 09:19 AM, 05/13/2008
pookie
"The Electoral College was partially created as a check-and-balance system against the supidity of the people" IS THIS WHAT THE TEACH IN OUR ALLEGED SCHOOLS NOW ??
Posted 09:12 AM, 05/13/2008
koolhand
and as an oped writer for the Times wrote today, if they 'think' he converted to Christianity and abandoned 'Islam,' it is legitimate to think that he will invoke the ire of fundamentalists. Yikes, fundamentalist Muslims may try to kill Obama! Newsflash! Federal budget to increase due to extra security for president! Funny stuff in the liberal NYT. Oh, and 4-2 4-2.
Posted 07:47 AM, 05/13/2008
joyfultoo
As a former West Virginian (what's WV's #1 export?--its people), I feel compelled to address this issue of racisim in WV. In diversity of population, WV is ranked 50th. In number of people who are college educated, WV ranks 50th. The largest city (there are few) has a population of 51,000 or so. This information is important in understanding WV. There's little opportunity for an influx of new ideas or exposure to different cultures. There is a tendency for us as humans to reject things or people we are unfamiliar with. Also, generally people are struggling economically in WV. The stresses of day to day existence do not allow people to be open to a message of change. The state (and Obama)is a victim of its own insularity. Appalachia is not like the rest of the country...it is unique in its thinking and its culture but to some degree you can undoubtedly find the essence of what I mention in pockets of any state of the union. The Presidency of Barack Obama is just what WV and this country needs for many reasons, but it might be a cure for the rasicim that ails us. Thanks Will, for a great article.
Posted 06:53 AM, 05/13/2008
CB
Archimedes: Tell your buddy to use SNOPES.com more often.
Posted 01:20 AM, 05/13/2008
yobill626
No one looked down on ignorant & uninformed voters more than William F. Buckley. How I read Will's point was that people should take more responsibility for being informed when they vote. There's a wide variety of opinions on this blog, but the folks here overwhelmingly try to be informed. We just all process that information differently. My other favorite ignoramous beliefs are "9/11 was Bush/Cheney conspiracy" & "Saddam caused 9/11" which cover both ends of the ignorant public. Lastly, Xi Jah (who I never seem to agree with) made the most astute observation of the day about the benefits of drinking high quality teas in the City...humminah, humminah!
Posted 10:25 PM, 05/12/2008
Archimedes
I just got an e-mail, clearly one sent to everybody on my friend's extensive e-mail list, that quotes a parody of an Obama remark but says it was spoken by Obama (in it the "Obama" said our national anthem was too warlike and he preferred "Teach the World to Sing," the old Coke commercial, as a new national anthem). My friend is a not particularly stupid Hillary supporter, but perfectly willing to believe that Obama is ragingly unpatriotic! It is almost as if I sent him last Saturday's vicious anti-Hillary SNL intro and claimed that she actually said those things. Part of the problem with the ill-informed is they are actually being misinformed by gossip spread over the Internet and probably by word of mouth as well.
Posted 10:02 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
it is legitimate to think that he will invoke the ire of fundamentalists. Yup, having a president "invoke the ire of fundamentalists" would be a real disaster for this country.

Thats why having Bush as president, someone who has amazingly managed to invoke the ire of fundamentalists along with the entire rest of the Muslim and Western world, has been so good for this country. Hey, Christine, have you taken the time to read up on how America's prestige has plummeted under the Bush administration?

Oh, and BTW, Christine, you might also read up a bit more on what the "Muslim world" thinks. 'Cause, you know, it might be possible that not all Muslims will want to burn Obama at the stake for being a Christian. Just sayin'

Posted 08:52 PM, 05/12/2008
montani semper liberi
"Regarding the comment about Obama not being a full-blooded American...um....that's actually true! His father is African."..............................Ouch! Now there's "American blood"???? Did you forget? The Constitution makes anyone born on American soil a "full-blooded" American, my friend. We hillfolk may be slow, but we're not all Nazi-like elitists.
Posted 08:35 PM, 05/12/2008
what is truth?
Just like the poor, the uneducated are always with us. They have existed in every election. For the most part they tend to cancel each other out. But they didn't (cancel each other out) for Al Smith in 1928 and they may not for Barack Obama in 2008.
Posted 08:01 PM, 05/12/2008
montani semper liberi
And then there's Christine and her "Muslim world", which apparently (gasp) 'thinks' all by itself! Oh my, we bumpkins out here in hillbillyland is surely creeped out now!
Posted 07:47 PM, 05/12/2008
montani semper liberi
"Maybe we should give the people of West Virginia a little more credit.".........Thanks, chrissmith, a jar o' moonshine to ya! Speaking of elitism, did anybody else take notice of the Chimperor's comments on gas prices today? Here's what my simple ears heard: "No, I'm not gonna appeal to Americans to conserve, no sirreee! Because if yer rich, what's it matter, dog ginnit, you can still afford them high prices, right? But if you can't afford it, well then you won't be able to drive none anyways, so heck, the market will make you po' folks conserve, I won't have to!"
Posted 07:32 PM, 05/12/2008
Christine
Whether or not Obama is a 'muslim' by his own admission, his father was a Muslim and thus, he is considered Muslim. What he says he is is less important than what the Muslim world 'thinks' he is, and as an oped writer for the Times wrote today, if they 'think' he converted to Christianity and abandoned 'Islam,' it is legitimate to think that he will invoke the ire of fundamentalists. Having handled the asylum cases of 'apostates' in the past, notably Baha'i from Iran, I can confirm that the way Islam treats these individuals is more brutal than anything most Americans can imagine. Of course, religion should be irrelevant, right Will?
Posted 07:17 PM, 05/12/2008
chrissmith
Regarding the comment about Obama not being a full-blooded American...um....that's actually true! His father is African. Maybe we should give the people of West Virginia a little more credit. Let's stop being so elitist it's making me throw up, just a little, in my mouth. Thanks guys.
Posted 06:09 PM, 05/12/2008
montani semper liberi
Will, I meant to note earlier that "Lennie" Simpson's belief that Obama is a Muslim doesn't absolutely prove he's just a ignernt hill-jack. For all we know, Lennie might be a rather intelligent man of faith; that is, the Islamic faith, in which the mere fact that Obama's father was born a Muslim means that Obama is a Muslim as well under Islamic law, regardless of whether his father was actually an atheist or that Obama is a Christian in practice.
Posted 05:53 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
Of course, I never said that ALL blacks who voted for Obama were morons. I pointed out that there are probably just as many black morons in NC who voted for Obama as there are white morons in WV voting for Clinton.

And what would the basis for your analysis? You make assumptions about the numbers of North Carolinians that are "morons." And the evidence for that assumption? Because 90% of the AA's in NC voted for Obama. Yet, undoubtedly, those so many "morons" have voted for white candidates numerous times. In fact, I'd venture a guess that your buddies Sharpton and Wright have both voted for white candidates in the past.

On the other hand, we have evidence that there are not an insignificant number of white voters who will not vote for Obama primarily because of his race, or idiotic rationale such as the idea that Obama is a Muslim.

Posted 05:45 PM, 05/12/2008
James TL
Is Hillary the only beneficiary of the "uninformed fool" vote? (posted by legatus) ..... Don't know about this but I'm sure McCain will benefit from the 'misinformed fool vote'. You know... the people who religiously listen to Limbaugh and Hannity and watch Fox news for what they think is the 'truth'.
Posted 05:15 PM, 05/12/2008
paul_lukasiak
To say that blacks are morons for voting for him says a lot about YOU. Maybe YOU are the moron.

Of course, I never said that ALL blacks who voted for Obama were morons. I pointed out that there are probably just as many black morons in NC who voted for Obama as there are white morons in WV voting for Clinton. And since you couldn't comprehend that, you're one of the morons.

There are LOTS of morons in the black community -- I mean, anyone who shows up for an Al Sharpton rally is automatically a moron. There are more than enough legitimate African American leaders in this country will very significant following of intelligent african americans. But Sharpton's followers are morons.

But if I was a Daily News blogger, and I went out and got some moron quotes from the Sharpton rally, and then used that as an excuse for why Hillary Clinton wasn't getting many votes in the black community, I'd get fired. And rightfully so.

To me, the question isn't about low information white voters. Its about 'high information' African-American race-p*mps like Donna Brazile, who will publicly and deliberately lie about something that Bill Clinton said in order to exploit the justifiable frustration of African Americans in order to benefit Barack Obama.

Posted 04:59 PM, 05/12/2008
paul_lukasiak
Thanks, Paul. You might have some wacko political beliefs, but you're a stand up guy.

Yeah, I'm just a high-tech Bubba -- salt of the earth, but a total whack job when it comes to politics. ;-)

Posted 04:58 PM, 05/12/2008
Damgoodbodies
"More "race-boating" (racial swift-boating) from Will Bunch. Lets put it this way -- I bet there are just as many completely stupid and ignorant African Americans in North Carolina as there are completely stupid and ignorant white people in West Virginia. On a percentage basis, there are probably a lot more complete morons in North Carolina's African American community, because 90% of them voted for Obama, and Clinton isn't going to get much more than 70% of the white vote in West Virginia." So because the African Americans in NC vote overwhelmingly for Obama they are MORONS? Did you hear any African Americans saying STUPID and IGNORANT reasons for not voting for Hillary as these hillbillies did about Obama? Why can't it be that they see a candidate that they identify with for once? Why can't it be they see someone that they are proud of the way he has carried himself in this campaign thru all of the BS and negativity? Why can't it be that they want to show their children the possibilities of what education, dedication and hard work can get you in America? I'm an African American college grad Paul and I voted for Obama in the primary and I'm looking forward to voting for him in the general. I know MANY other educated, informed blacks in NC who did the same. To say that blacks are morons for voting for him says a lot about YOU. Maybe YOU are the moron.
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Posted 04:52 PM, 05/12/2008
Karin
The distinction between the candidates is, Clinton is bragging getting these "white collar lower educated" voters, which is code for "hillbillies" I guess. Obama is not bragging about getting the votes of people who think AIDS is a government plot, of which there are some number, I'm sure. But not as big a number as the likes of Fry & Simpson.
Posted 04:44 PM, 05/12/2008
montani semper liberi
b.atkinson, if there is an 'ignorant test', you needn't worry.
Comment removed.
Posted 04:32 PM, 05/12/2008
Patrick M
Great. Now TPS is going to post longer self-important name-calling treatises. Thanks Paul.
Posted 04:31 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
Thanks, Paul. You might have some wacko political beliefs, but you're a stand up guy.
Posted 04:12 PM, 05/12/2008
paul_lukasiak
TPS.. use the "p" (paragraph) tag ("less than" symbol + "p" + "greater than" symbol) but for some reason it also forces some of the text to repeat itself at the bottom of the comment..
Posted 04:12 PM, 05/12/2008
paul_lukasiak
TPS.. use the "p" (paragraph) tag ("less than" symbol + "p" + "greater than" symbol) but for some reason it also forces some of the text to repeat itself at the bottom of the comment..
Posted 03:53 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
Ok, Paul, how did you get the carriage returns. A "cr" between brackets doesn't work (although it used to).
Posted 03:52 PM, 05/12/2008
montani semper liberi
Hillary's greatest mistake was underestimating Obama's appeal, especially in America's heartland. From some of the commentary here today, I'm encouraged to believe that most Republicans will be just as foolish. They're just too elistist to realize the power of Obama's gift.
Posted 03:49 PM, 05/12/2008
paul_lukasiak
But when Clinton's vote total is swelled by the likes of people like this, do you honestly think there's something that Obama could be saying or doing that would get their support?

More "race-boating" (racial swift-boating) from Will Bunch. Lets put it this way -- I bet there are just as many completely stupid and ignorant African Americans in North Carolina as there are completely stupid and ignorant white people in West Virginia. On a percentage basis, there are probably a lot more complete morons in North Carolina's African American community, because 90% of them voted for Obama, and Clinton isn't going to get much more than 70% of the white vote in West Virginia.

But imagine if, during the PA primary season, someone had posted a map of North Philly with the headline "There are some headlines not worth getting" and provided a few quotes from people who sound like the unholy spawn of Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright, and then wrote "But when Obama's vote total is swelled by the likes of people like this, do you honestly think there's something that Clinton could be saying or doing that would get their support?" If Bunch had written that about Black Philadelphians, he wouldn't have a job today -- unless it was writing copy for the Grand Kleagel of the KKK.

Posted 03:40 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
Agreed.
Posted 03:39 PM, 05/12/2008
legatus
I understand the reasons that the "ignorant, uninformed blue-collar" argument is in play....as you said, due to Hillary's latest contention about white working class voters. My point is that, regardless of the reasons for bringing to light the ignorant nature of a very small percentage of this bloc, it is incorrect to generalize this over the entire subset mentioned, nor is it correct in implying that the same standard does not exist on Obama's side.
Posted 03:31 PM, 05/12/2008
Politburo
Whoops, I forgot Poland. Add one minister to my list.
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Posted 03:29 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
Xi Jah, he's only unelectable if yoyu assume that the Clinton supporters won't vote for him. He's doign fine amongst most white voters. And as I said, if Clinton supporters won't vote for him, even though his policies and idealogy are closer to Hillary then McCain, then they are clearly voting against him. Its interesting to hear their reasoning.
Posted 03:27 PM, 05/12/2008
Politburo
"the Dems just plain suck at selecting regular folks to run for Prez. They keep picking elitists like Kerry, Gore and now Obama." TPS already debunked this, but let's keep it going.. in 2000, the GOPs put up the son of a President and the son of an Admiral. In 2008, they put up the son of an Admiral, the son of a Governor, four lawyers, and a doctor.
Posted 03:26 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
McCain was already a part of the conversation, via what those interviewed said. And as I said, Obama undoubtedly has some supporters that are similiarly uninformed. Hilaary's are in the spotlight because she is using this as her latest argument (Obama can't connect with white, working class voters w/o college degrees). Its an insanely small sample, but when interviewed the two above, plus a Nash McCabe, and others whose quotes I've read, state a similiar them. Obama's not one of us. Now its, either anti-elitism (which is absurd, we should want an elite as president, plus the other two come from a more elite background), or its uniformed, he's a muslim, etc.
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Posted 03:17 PM, 05/12/2008
legatus
RG, I never brought McCain into the conversation. I am simply discussing the Obama-Clinton WV primary. Is Hillary the only beneficiary of the "uninformed fool" vote? Conversely, are all of Obama's supporters making highly informed judgments based on thorough research of the candidate's policy positions? This seems to be what Will (and a few others) are intimating.
Posted 03:16 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
Let's face it Will - the Dems just plain suck at selecting regular folks to run for Prez. They keep picking elitists like Kerry, Gore and now Obama. Good point. Not like the Repubs. They nominate such "regular folks." You know, the kinds of "regular folks" that have estates in Kennebunkport, that buy ranches in Texas shortly before running for prez, that go to Andover, that go to Yale, that get an MBA from Harvard, that used to be alcoholics.... You know, regular folks like that.
Posted 03:16 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
So Xi Jah, Obama's lead is solely due to the balck vote? Since when did African Americans become the majority?
Comment removed.
Posted 03:09 PM, 05/12/2008
montani semper liberi
So an FT reporter interviews 22 folks attending a Clinton rally in Mingo County to get the pulse of West Virginia? Anybody from round these parts can tell you, Mingo County is about as backward as you can find in the Mountain State, deep in the heavily depressed and blissfully isolated southern coal mining region bordering Kentucky. If you wanted to fulfill the stereotypical dumb hillbilly image of this state, this is where you'd hit paydirt. West Virginia actually straddles three geographic regions of the country - the eastern panhandle is Mid-Atlantic, and in the past few decades it has become an extension of the northern Virginia suburbs. The northern panhandle and upper half of the state are distinctly Midwestern, with cultural ties to Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The southern part of the state, below metropolitan Charleston and Huntington, is simply the northernmost reach of the South, extending down the Appalachians into Kentucky, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Georgia and Alabama - bona fide redneck country, God love 'em. I'm sure that the reporter was looking for somebody exactly like Leonard Simpson to fulfill the tired old West Virginia stereotype that is central to the reporter's theme. However, old Simpson is no different than any ignorant old fool you'd find anywhere in America.
Posted 03:07 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
Legatus, the difference is, Clinton and Obama are similiar on policy. So Clinton supporters who say they would vote for McCain, whose polciies are completely different than Clinton's, over Obama because of silly notions or rumors, are in all likelihood, uninformed. And that could apply for Obama supporters who would do the same if Clinton were the nominee.
Posted 03:07 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
Legatus, the difference is, Clinton and Obama are similiar on policy. So Clinton supporters who say they would vote for McCain, whose polciies are completely different than Clinton's, over Obama because of silly notions or rumors, are in all likelihood, uninformed. And that could apply for Obama supporters who would do the same if Clinton were the nominee.
Posted 03:07 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
Legatus, the difference is, Clinton and Obama are similiar on policy. So Clinton supporters who say they would vote for McCain, whose polciies are completely different than Clinton's, over Obama because of silly notions or rumors, are in all likelihood, uninformed. And that could apply for Obama supporters who would do the same if Clinton were the nominee.
Posted 03:05 PM, 05/12/2008
justablogger
To me, it looks like the reporter cherry-picked these voter comments- I doubt they are typical but they fit the agenda for Will "that these are so-called low information voters". Let's face it Will - the Dems just plain suck at selecting regular folks to run for Prez. They keep picking elitists like Kerry, Gore and now Obama. It is like the Dems have a death wish - hell they may as well pick a MSM journalist like Chris Matthews. He could turn a likely Dem win into a loss too!
Posted 03:03 PM, 05/12/2008
Patrick M
Amazing. Democrats think that anyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid, even if they're talking about fellow democrats. How childish. Keepin eating each other up. I love it.
Posted 02:54 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
it's more that they're voting for Barack because he's black. How quickly they forget. At the beginning of the campaign, Clinton had greater support among black voters than Obama. No doubt, some black voters are voting for Obama " because " he's black. Similarly, there are some white voters who would never vote for him because he's black. But just as with any ethnic, religious, or cultural segment of the American population, blacks are supporting candidates on the basis of what they think best reflects their interests. If the Republicans ran a black candidate, with the political ideology of McCain, he would get pathetically little support in the black community. Blacks didn't turn out to vote for Swann in the PA gubernatorial election, did they? Mormons disproportionately support Mormon candidate. Women disproportionately support a woman candidate. And idiots disproportionately support Republican candidates. But Mormons wouldn't support a liberal, democratic candidate. Women wouldn't support a bad woman candidate. And idiots will always disproportionately support Republicans.
Posted 02:52 PM, 05/12/2008
CB
Captain Awesome is right. The electoral college was created because some of our founding fathers did not believe the "common folk" could be trusted to vote correctly. Let's see... electoral college = superdelagates, voter disenfranchisement in Florida (and Michigan)... Oh My God, the Democrats are becoming Republicans!!! I guess when Obama says he has the majority of the popular vote, we can now discount the statement because some of those people are downright stupid. Supposedly this country is run by one citizen one vote... intellectual or intellectually challenged. Sounds like a conspiricy to me.
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Posted 02:48 PM, 05/12/2008
Politburo
Do you have an actual response, or will that blabbering be all?
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Posted 02:41 PM, 05/12/2008
Politburo
The problem with your analysis, Xi Jah, is that a sizable number of those voters have likely voted for a white democrat in the past, since to date just about all of the major candidates have been white. It's not that they're voting against Hillary because she's white (though I'm sure there are some).. it's more that they're voting for Barack because he's black. There is quite a difference between the two scenarios.
Posted 02:37 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
Will, where on the 'stupid scale' do you put people that vote on the basis of a candidate's skin color? Xi Jah, why would you assume that since 95% of McCain's supporters will be white, that they necessarily will vote for McCain because of his skin color? Clearly, since the vast majority of African Americans that have ever voted for any presidential candidate in the history of the country has voted for a white candidate, and practically no whites ever voted for a black presidential caddiate - you couldn't possibly be implying that blacks vote based on skin color. Well, that is unless you're a Republican sycophant.
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Posted 02:16 PM, 05/12/2008
jmc
Will, your implying is that the 70% of voters who will vote Clinton in West Virginia are like the two guys quoted in the article. So, if you vote against Obama, then your a racist. See, I said it would get to this point.
Posted 02:12 PM, 05/12/2008
Patrick M
Greg S. I love your test idea. Democrats would never win an election under those circumstances.
Posted 02:10 PM, 05/12/2008
LJL
"A couple of my freinds, who happen to be doctors, are not only convinced he's a muslim, but that he's also already had secret meetings with Hamas." .....Time to find some new friends. BTW - I see that former senator Bob Barr is running for President as a libertarian. Just what McSame needs, someone with an almost-real conservative track record to highlight his faux conservative track record. Bob Barr = the GOP's Ralph Nader. Hmmm, "President Obama"....sounds pretty good.
Comment removed.
Posted 02:03 PM, 05/12/2008
legatus
"Call me an elitist if you want, but someone foolish enough to believe a smear campaign like 'Obama is muslim' and who doesnt research the facts for themselves, and even worse wont vote for him simply because he is muslim, well he shouldnt be able to vote." You're an elitist. Tell me Greg, will the "foolish" vote be spread evenly and therefore cancel itself out, or will all of the fools vote for Hillary?
Posted 02:03 PM, 05/12/2008
Sweatheart
Also, I'll be that WV family that enslaved and sexually abused that young African-American woman are Hillary supporters.
Posted 02:01 PM, 05/12/2008
Sweatheart
As an elitist, I believe that those West Virginians who are ignorant should be sterilized so they cannot reproduce and do further harm to our culture.
Posted 02:00 PM, 05/12/2008
legatus
"But when Clinton's vote total is swelled by the likes of people like this [the "ignorant"], do you honestly think there's something that Obama could be saying or doing that would get their support?" "I'm just saying a candidate shouldn't be criticized for not "connecting" with the uninformed. Posted by will" Your clear implication is that some of those who will vote for Clinton are ignorant and uniformed, while all of those who vote for Obama are necessarily intelligent and informed. Tell me Will, are ALL of the 92% of blacks who will vote for Obama "informed", or will they vote for him for reasons with which you would not necessarily agree? Should Hillary be criticized for not connecting with these folkls?
Posted 01:57 PM, 05/12/2008
SteveMG
A muslim doesn't have to be evil, it just has to sound foreign (as in not full blooded American). A couple of my freinds, who happen to be doctors, are not only convinced he's a muslim, but that he's also already had secret meetings with Hamas.
Posted 01:45 PM, 05/12/2008
Greg S
Its funny that everyone gets upset that people are trying to make Obama out to be a muslim. Surely its a scare tactic, but shouldnt we be more upset that the majority of people in this country equate muslim with evil. How sad is that. As unconstitutional as it is, I still think people should be required to take some sort of test to be able to vote. Call me an elitist if you want, but someone foolish enough to believe a smear campaign like "Obama is muslim" and who doesnt research the facts for themselves, and even worse wont vote for him simply because he is muslim, well he shouldnt be able to vote. Someone that ignorant isnt an American in my book, and people like that are the reason the rest of the world has begun to look down on us.
Posted 01:33 PM, 05/12/2008
Captain Awesome
The Electoral College was partially created as a check-and-balance system against the supidity of the people....But this isn't the first election where stupid people have been invited to participate in the voting process (look at the last two elections); it just seems like the Idiot Quotient has gone up exponentially in the last couple of years.
Posted 01:18 PM, 05/12/2008
E Plebnista
When the views of some voters like these are based on false conspiracy theories or just a distrust of an American solely because he doesn't look like them,.......Isnt that the same motivation that says Obama is the right candidate because he is "change", McCain is not the right one because he is "More of the same"? No details on what "change" means in terms of policies or ideas, just mindless platitudes. The thought put into both decisions is the same, that is to say, its all emotion, no real thought at all.
Posted 01:17 PM, 05/12/2008
Molly
Will- you hit a sore spot.I just love WV and particularly WVU. Lets go Mountaineers!
Posted 01:15 PM, 05/12/2008
Talking point sleuth
Good point, b.at(ch), and Georgie. Because, you know, Josh is certainly above criticism for saying he's voting for McCain because he wants a full-blooded American as president, and Leonard certainly shouldn't be criticized for saying that Obama is a Muslim. I mean those statements clearly offer no proof that they could legitimately be called willfully stubborn or ignorant. Clearly, they could just be sycophantic Republicans who just like pretending they believe total nonsense, like Georgie and b.at(ch).
Posted 01:11 PM, 05/12/2008
will
And Molly, I couldn't agree more -- I'm just saying a candidate shouldn't be criticized for not "connecting" with the uninformed.
Posted 01:05 PM, 05/12/2008
will
George, you just gave a couple of excellent reasons why someone wouldn't vote for Obama -- because they disagree with him on abortion or economic policy. Those aren't the reasons these voters are giving to reporters, however.
Posted 01:05 PM, 05/12/2008
Molly
Will- You have to understand this is a democracy( flawed as it may be) of thev people, by the people for the people. It is not by the literate , articulate, well educated ,etc. The misinformed , uninformed, and even plain wrong are people and their vote is as good as anyone else!
Posted 01:05 PM, 05/12/2008
RG
As my buddy says, you can't fix stupid.
Posted 01:02 PM, 05/12/2008
George Tomezsko
"Some American voters are not bitter -- but willfully and stubbornly ignorant." Posted like a true leftist elitist. Now for the translation: some American voters are not bitter -- but willfully and stubbornly oppose the soviet socialist agenda of Obama and company. In short, they stand up for the "quaint" notion that unborn children have a natrual right to life, for the "old-fashioned" view that marriage between a man and a woman is right and proper, and for the "unenlightened" thought that the free enterprise system is superior to all others in terms of wealth production.
Comment removed.
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Will Bunch, a senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogs about his obsessions, including national and local politics and world affairs, the media, pop music, the Philadelphia Phillies, soccer and other sports, not necessarily in that order.

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