Theodore C. Olbermann, 1929-2010
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Theodore C. Olbermann, 1929-2010
Theodore Olbermann was a noteworthy architect, but in this media age that we live in, he became best known during the very final act of his life. It was during those weeks that his son -- the MSNBC newscaster Keith Olbermann -- used his hospital travails as a teachable moment on the urgent need for a U.S. healthcare reform that would lead to better outcomes for all. Now, there's an excellent chance that legislation will win final approval pass this week, but Theodore Olbermann did not live to see it; he died Saturday at age 80 with his son and daughter at his side. My condolences to Keith (whom, as longtime readers know, I went to high school with) and the Olbermann family. He sent me this obituary that I'm reprinting here. At the bottom is Keith Olbermann's special comment about his dad's hospitalization and his plea for reform:
Theodore C. Olbermann died, in the city of his birth, New York, Saturday. He was 80 years old.
Though the financial constraints of his youth made college infeasible, he became an architect licensed in 40 states, and practiced for 40 years. Much of his work was commercial and there was a time in the 1970's when nearly all of the Baskin-Robbins outlets in the country had been built to his design, and under his direction.
He was predeceased last year by his wife of nearly 60 years, Marie. He died peacefully after a long fight against the complications which ensued after successful colon surgery last September, with his daughter and son at his bedside, the latter reading aloud to him his favorite James Thurber short stories, as he passed.
"He was my inspiration, and will always remain so," said his son, Keith. "His bravery these last six months cannot be measured. He is as much my hero now, as he was when I was five years old."
Memorial services are pending. In lieu of flowers the family is encouraging donations to the National Association of Free Clinics.
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Comments (129)
As regular viewers of Olbermann's Countdown, my wife and I became concerned about Keith's father almost as if he were a valued friend of ours. It is always sad when someone decent dies.
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---}}} and on the latter America is the best in the world. {{{--- Among western countries - America has the most unequal medical system in the world - with wide disparities based on financial status, race, and geography.— Talking point sleuth- Comment removed.
- Just a reminder that it's permissible to delete "juvenile noise," and most of you are smart enough to know what that is. But this post is a perfectly fine place to discuss the merits of healthcare -- pro or con.— will
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- [Deleted -- ditto]— Talking point sleuth
- I'm not understanding the connection between Olbermann's father and Obamacare. Is he saying his father would have survived under Obamacare? If so, how?— Falls Ed
- Hey Mr. Gault, it is very obvious from your 11:55 post that you are a despicable human being. Your post is the epitome of "classless stuff". If your deleted comment was anything like your 11:55 post, you should be permanently deleted from here.— AHiredGun
My condolences to Olbermann, but I would never use the death of my father to advance my politics. Then again, I'm not a liberal. Will, I wouldn't be too confident about Obamacare passing. If they had the votes right now, they would be voting on it right now.— jmc- Condolences to Keith and his family at this sad time.— quadmom
- "but I would never use the death of my father to advance my politics." Amen.— RG
- ---}}} My condolences to Olbermann, but I would never use the death of my father to advance my politics. {{{--- Yeah. Good point. Because why should watching what happens to you and your family motivate you to make sure that other people have the same options or have better options? It would have been much better if Olbermann had just said "Hey, my dad got good care, why should I care if anyone else can?" Olbermann's a blowhard, and his point was a bit unclear - but unlike usually, I actually watched this rant all the way through.— Talking point sleuth
- "Because why should watching what happens to you and your family motivate you to make sure that other people have the same options or have better options?" No, pushing for socialized medicine means that you are asking one group of citizens to subsidize another. Medicare's going bankrupt, so is SS, learn the lesson folks.— RG
May the memory of the father not be tainted by the idiocy of the son. RIP— rudytbone- Condolences to Olbermann, but I note that, according to the obituary, he was running his mouth right up to the moment his father passed.— nellar
- I agree, How dare he use real, personal annecdotes to communicate a point when he can blather endless about vague, unfounded threats to American society death panels. Personal experience???? As if that matters when it's contradictory to the learnings of the Prophets Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck.— gee1971
- "Personal experience????" Yes, one person's persoanl experience should be used to chart the path of a nation of 300 mil.— RG
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- ---}}} No, pushing for socialized medicine means that you are asking one group of citizens to subsidize another. {{{--- Actually, what they're pushing for is making sure that everyone has access to health insurance, not "socialized medicine." The American public has already decided that no one should be denied access to health care on the basis of their income. I know that disturbs you to no end, RG - because it just horrifies you that some of your expendable income might go to saving the life of a poor kid or an elderly person - but your resulting stupor seems to have caused you to be a bit confused.— Talking point sleuth
- "The American public has already decided that no one should be denied access to health care on the basis of their income." Every single memeber decided this? Did they decide who was picking up the tab? Or did 50+1% decide to force this notion onto the minority and then decide to tax the "rich" to pay for it?— RG
- ---}}} Yes, one person's persoanl experience should be used to chart the path of a nation of 300 mil. {{{--- Still upset that a nation of 300 million have determined that no one should be denied medical care on the basis of income, eh RG? And note, the citizens of every other developed country on the entire planet feel similarly. But yeah - your concern about the "will of the people" is really touching, RG - your position has nothing to do with your concern about holding on to a few extra tax dollars, I'm sure. LOL!— Talking point sleuth
- "I know that disturbs you to no end, RG - because it just horrifies you that some of your expendable income might go to saving the life of a poor kid or an elderly person" Oh sweet, you get to decide what portion of my income is "expendable" and how it should be spent. Isn't collectivism grand?— RG
- ---}}} Or did 50+1% decide to force this notion onto the minority and then decide to tax the "rich" to pay for it? {{{--- The majority has decided so, RG. That's how a democracy works. Apparently you think that a dictatorship would work better? Maybe you should head down to Texas - they seem to think that secession is a good idea, and maybe once they secede, you can convince them to switch over.— Talking point sleuth
- "And note, the citizens of every other developed country on the entire planet feel similarly." Most of those countries are going bankrupt as well.— RG
- "The majority has decided so, RG." Majority rules, huh? Ok, I'll remember that. "Apparently you think that a dictatorship would work better?" Or a Costitutional Republic, which is what we are, not a pure democracy. Another failure of your public education.— RG
- Well, swifty, I can tell you from personal experience that the current system will not cover those CT scans or X-rays. The majority of the middle class already subsidizes health care for the uninsured right now. We have to pay whenever they don't. The difference is that the insurance industry can refuse to cover necessary procedures. Also, even if there was single-payer, people could pay out of pocket for extra procedures they wanted. If you can point to SS as an example of government problems, why can't we point out Calvin Coolidge's lack of regulation as a failure of conservative politics and say that conservatives should not be involved in the economic sector?— HandNik
- ---}}} Oh sweet, you get to decide what portion of my income is "expendable" and how it should be spent. Isn't collectivism grand? {{{--- Not me, RG, the majority of the American people have made it clear that they think it is simply common sense that beyond a certain point, one's income can be used to acquire more than just basic necessities, and thus is more "expendable." If the majority of the voting public changes in their opinion, they are perfectly free to elect representatives that will create your beloved dictatorship, where laws and policies can be based on minority opinions - such as you desire.— Talking point sleuth
- ---}}} Or a Costitutional Republic, which is what we are, not a pure democracy. {{{--- Yeah - good point, RG. Because the system we have now, whereby health care is provided to those who can't afford to pay for it, is in direct violation of the Constitution. LOL! You're hilarious. What's next, the National Guard is a secret army intended to enforce a "New World Order" of "one-world government?"— Talking point sleuth
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- The question I have is why should I have to care about your money, RG? The money you make is only provided to you by the government. Without that aforementioned government, you would have to barter goods. I personally don't care how important you think money is, or how it's distributed, because you only have it by the graces of good government. Nowhere in the Constitution does it tell me that you have a right to your money, so if we as a country vote in a policy that takes your money away, that's the cost of citizenship.— HandNik
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- it is not about advancing politics. Healthcare is not polictics, or should not be. That the Republicans have made it so is a testament to their typical greed-filled agenda, putting the profits of large, uncaring corporations ahead of what is best for the people. Just like their activist judges who rewrote the constitution to give corporations the same rights as people. Where is the right-wing outrage over that failure to be a strict constructionist? Oh, that is right, they are only outraged when decisions go against their greedhead ways.
- ----}}} Lets also posit that all these procedures will be approved by some union slug bureaucrat wasting away the day in his cushy office thousands of miles from the hospital where gramps is staying. {{{--- As opposed to some bean counter working to ensure the profitability of some insurance company? Where is your evidence, sloboat, that under a reformed health care system, doctors and/or patients would have less input into how medical decisions are made?— Talking point sleuth
- "Yeah - good point, RG. Because the system we have now, whereby health care is provided to those who can't afford to pay for it, is in direct violation of the Constitution." I missed where the power to force people to buy insurance or subsidize others was granted in the Constitution. But nice dodge in you previous fail at passing us off as a democracy.— RG
- "they are perfectly free to elect representatives that will create your beloved dictatorship, where laws and policies can be based on minority opinions" Government should protect the rights of the minority fromt he tyraany of the majority. This isn't a hard concept.— RG
- ---}}} This from a guy bragging about paying lowball 'wages' to illegal immigrants under the table, cheating the government on the tax money due from the transaction, and thus denying benefits to those individuals. {{{--- Amazing how much you cling to the same vacuous arguments, not matter how many times they've been proven vacuous. I guess when you're desperate, you'll just cling pathetically to whatever you've got, eh batboy?— Talking point sleuth
- "The money you make is only provided to you by the government." What color is the sky in your world? "Nowhere in the Constitution does it tell me that you have a right to your money" Yep, nothing about property rights in there.— RG
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- ---}}} But nice dodge in you previous fail at passing us off as a democracy. {{{--- "passing us off as a democracy." We have a democratic form of government RG - one with rules and laws meant to protect against a tyranny of the majority. It is imperfect, but it's the best we got. But feel to dream on about your Shangri-la, RG, where you can benefit from everything our government provides, but also not have to sacrifice in any way for that privilege. LOL!— Talking point sleuth
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- "But feel to dream on about your Shangri-la," I'm fairly sure you're the one living in Libtopia. SS-broke, Medicare-broke, Amtrak-broke, USPS-broke, government-broke, but keep thinking they can solve your problems. Oh, and let me know how I "benefit" from SS.— RG
- ---}}} Government should protect the rights of the minority fromt he tyraany of the majority. {{{--- And the designers of our government put reasonable systems in place to help protect against a tyranny of the majority. But seriously, keep it up, RG. It's hilarious when you rant about how unconstitutional our present system of government is. When are you planning to hold your revolution?— Talking point sleuth
- ---}}} Medicare denies procedures every single day. Every. Single. Day. {{{--- As do insurance companies. So I'll ask you again, sloboat - where is your evidence that along with health care reform, that give access to insurance to some 30 million people that don't currently have health insurance, doctors and/or patients would have less input into their medical care. Try again, sloboat, you seem to have been confused the first time you tried to answer the question.— Talking point sleuth
- "And the designers of our government put reasonable systems in place to help protect against a tyranny of the majority." Sure we do. I remember that opt out clause for SS and Medicare. "When are you planning to hold your revolution?" I'm not, I'll just wait for the country to go bankrupt, then laugh when all those on the government dole realize their free ride is over.— RG
- ---}}} Oh, and let me know how I "benefit" from SS. {{{--- Right. I forgot, RG. You believe that we'd all be better off as a country if hundreds of millions of elderly people had been left in poverty without any social safety net - as they were prior to SS. My bad. I failed to account for your libertarian stupor.— Talking point sleuth
- ---}}} Sure we do. I remember that opt out clause for SS and Medicare. {{{--- Poor, poor, RG. He's so oppressed. Poor fella. It's just so unfair. Imagine that, he has to pay taxes to build streets and bridges, educate his neighbors kids so we aren't a country of illiterates, provide healthcare to his elderly neighbors. Poor, poor RG. He's suffering so badly from this "tyranny of the majority." LOL!— Talking point sleuth
- "that don't currently have health insurance, doctors and/or patients would have less input into their medical care." Nah, people would just have restricted choices on who they could see. http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/10/11/massachusetts_plan_could_limit_patients_hospital_choices/?page=1— RG
- "Poor fella. It's just so unfair." Poor, poor uninsured. Their plight is my problem and my finances should be tied to their fate.— RG
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- Does anyone else find it odd that the second sentence of his obituary explains that the reason he never went to college was money (and not ambition or smarts?)... given that liberals worship at the altar of higher education I am not surprised that his loved ones would need to point this fact out first. RIP.— Bud Fox
- TPS -- your claim that this will give access to "30 million uninsured" people is misleading. Does your "30 million uninsured" include the 10 million illegal aliens who will not be covered under any future plan? Does it include the millions of folks 18-25 who choose not to purchase insurance, regardless that many states offer it at $50/month? Does it include people in PA, whose children can be covered regardless of how much you make? (I.e. Theresa Heinz's great-grandkiddies can get PA subsidized healthcare). Does it include the portion of 12 million folks who are temporarily out of a job and have lost healthcare coverage because of that? Let's stop tossing out the "30-45 million" number -- it's not accurate and paints a very misleading picture. There are many people who could afford to purchase healthcare insurance and choose not to, but yet choose to purchase cell phones, flat screen tv's, and cars they can't afford.— IggleFan68
- "May the memory of the father not be tainted by the idiocy of the son. RIP." Thanks for filling me in, Rudy, as I was not aware that GHW Bush had passed.— Billy Ray Winthorpe
- My condolences to the Olbermann family. It is always sad when someone passes, even if they have lived a full life. I have zero confidence that this 30 million page healthcare bill will "prevent anyone from dying" or measurably improve our health system in any meaningful way. I still don't understand why we can't take a measured approach and pass a series of bills where we have agreement on what to do.— IggleFan68
- "I would never use the death of my father to advance my politics. " Just as liberals use school shootings to promote gun control laws that would do nothing to halt those shootings.— db_cooper
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- "My insurance company can deny me a procedure. Right now, I can still decide to then go ahead and pay for it myself. Under socialized medicine, you don't have that option." SBVFT, even the UK has a private medical sector that runs alongside the NHS. So yes, it is likely that you would still have that option. Stop acting as if "socialized" or "government-provided" meant the same as "Soviet-style." Of course, let's not take our eye off the ball here; as has been previously pointed out here, the current legislation would not bring in socialized medicine, but instead universal insurance coverage provided primarily by private corporations. More's the pity.— Billy Ray Winthorpe
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- LOL! Once again, batboy, the law states that someone who provides sporadic, irregular, or intermittent domestic services in a private household is not an employee. But you can go on making up laws if you want, given that you're so pathetic that that's all you've got, and so you need to keep making the charge over and over.— Talking point sleuth
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- Fair enough, Iggy. I said "some" 30 million - but you're right, an accurate accounting should be used in the debate. Personally, I think that availability of federal subsidies should be better means tested, and would support such means testing. As for people who choose not to purchase insurance - as long as we have a system whereby health care is provided to those who can't afford to pay for it, when people don't purchase insurance, they are relying on others to pay for them anyway if they have medical problems/emergencies. My belief is simple - if people have the income, they should purchase insurance rather than freeload. If people can't afford insurance, than it makes sense for us as a country to subsidize their medical insurance. Will some people same the system? Sure. No doubt. When you find a perfect country, let me know, and I'll move there with you. Until then, I believe we should work on making our system more equitable. I just roll that way.— Talking point sleuth
My condolences to the Olbermann family. I'm not sure how this death is a "teaching moment" for healthcare reform but then I haven't watched Keith Olbermann since his ESPN days.— bird11- ---}}} Right now, I can still decide to then go ahead and pay for it myself. {{{--- I didn't realize that the plans proposed will make it illegal for you to have a fee for services arrangement with a healthcare provider outside of procedures approved by insurance carriers, sloboat. Would you mind giving me a link to back up your claim? LOL!— Talking point sleuth
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- "Just as liberals use school shootings to promote gun control laws that would do nothing to halt those shootings." Wow, you really don't get it do you? Gun control laws will never pass unless the people come to the conclusion that their obsession with being armed to the teeth "legally or not" has consequences. So obviously using Columbine as an example or symbol would be logical. Similarly, Healthcare reform will not be successful unless the people can no longer tolerate the consequences from relying on a corporatist profit driven healthcare system. "Pre-existing conditions" restrictions are necessary for maximum corporate profits, and they may also be the industry's Columbine.— pagoda
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Swifty's apparently never heard of an insurance company's denial of coverage. What a charmed life, eh?- Comment removed.
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- "I think that's kind of adorable. Childlike almost." Their utter faith in government is childlike. Profit based rationing-tool of the devil. Government rationing-perfectly fine.— RG
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- ---}}} Swifty's apparently never heard of an insurance company's denial of coverage. {{{--- Don't be silly, MSL. Government rationing is rationing. Insurance companies rationing isn't rationing. It's simply profit-making by denying health coverage. What's the problem with that? Profit-making is always good. Next you're going to say you have a problem with companies making profit by selling toxic products (which only happens when there's government regulation, btw).— Talking point sleuth
- ---}}} Up to 20,000 people have died needlessly early {{{--- Because clearly, each and every one of those 20,000 terminally ill patients with rare forms of cancer would have been miraculously healed if they had been provided with the more expensive drugs. So, yeah "up to" 20,000 patients died unnecessarily. Geez, ok, let's add up all terminally ill patients with rare forms of cancer that have been denied cancer potentially effective treatments by insurance companies in the US to make a comparison. Oh. Wait. Criticizing other systems only works if we ignore the problems with our system. My bad.— Talking point sleuth
- "Because clearly, each and every one of those 20,000 terminally ill patients with rare forms of cancer would have been miraculously healed if they had been provided with the more expensive drugs." This coming from the person who claims people die from lack of health insurance.— RG
SB"Veteran" - The only socialized medicine is in your wet dreams. No one (except Sarah Palin) is saying that you cant go outside the system. But I do find your understanding of politics, the law and just human nature to be kind of cute and childlike in its naivety.— Les Ismore- "This coming from the person who claims people die from lack of health insurance." People do die from lack of health insurance (routine preventative care saves lives). People die because they are denied coverage for certain treatments. This we know. Sticking with what we KNOW, private insurers in AMERICA ration and deny coverage everyday. We also know citizens and lawmakers have been able to do little to prevent this practice even though it has continued for decades. So I find it strange that so many people are taking this mistreatment purely based on PARTISAN ASSUMPTIONS about the alternative. As much as I hated Bush, I applauded his AIDS funding abroad- not sure if the right-wing would applaud if Obama abolished Federal Income tax.— pagoda
- "People do die from lack of health insurance (routine preventative care saves lives)." First, no one's death certificate has lack of insurance as cause of death. You sound like an @$$ arguing otherwise. Second, nothing is stopping people for paying ut of pocket to see a doctor. Helath insurance should not be some giant prepayment scheme meant to cover everything under the sun. "People die because they are denied coverage for certain treatments." As Swifty and others have pointed out, this happens under universal coverage schemes.— RG
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- really, jmc and RG? You would never use your personal experiences to support your argument for something you believe in strongly? I find that hard to believe. You should let Mothers Against Drunk Driving know how despicable they are.— mbphilly
- Pagoda -- I believe the point has been made below by folks who correctly assert that even under this healthcare bill, insurers (including a gov't run insurance) will deny coverage for various reasons, all of which could result in death of the patient. So we are trading one evil for another, with a PLETHORA of ill-understood other aspects of the bill. Remember, there are ALWAYS unintended consequences to laws, which liberals seem to forget.— IggleFan68
- "You would never use your personal experiences to support your argument for something you believe in strongly?" Not to pass legislation that forces people to buy products or increases their taxes, just because I beleive life is unfair. If you feel strongly for providing better health care to those of lesser means, join a charity. As for the MADD comparison, its way off. There is a clear level of culpability in the case of drunk driving that leads to death. To comapre that with those who oppose health care reform is just plain stupid.— RG
- mbphilly: MADD is not political, healthcare reform is. Last time I checked, MADD is not calling for massive government intervention into the alcohol industry.— jmc
- RG: Can we safely assume that if for some reason you lost your health insurance you will depend on your neighbors and charity when faced with a catastrophic illness? By catastrophic I mean on your bank account.— Les Ismore
- Another point to mbphilly: When you believe strongly in something and speak about it, that's not necessarily political. But when you want someone else to pay the bill for what you believe in, then the issue becomes political.— jmc
- Just wonder how many posters supporting Olbermann's position have cut their checks yet to the National Association of Free Clinics.— bird11
- "Can we safely assume that if for some reason you lost your health insurance you will depend on your neighbors and charity when faced with a catastrophic illness?" I wouldn't lobby the government to take from taxpayers to cover my misfortune.— RG
- [Deleted- does not think like a Liberal]— Manny Trillo
- [Deleted- watches Fox News]— Manny Trillo
- "Last time I checked, MADD is not calling for massive government intervention into the alcohol industry." Also, last time I checked MADD had no one with a opposing point of view...unless there is a Mothers For Drunk Driving group.— legatus
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- The whole aritle is juvenile noise. Sad, yes. Appropriate to be part of the political debate, no. Necessarily for a journalist reporting the serious issues of the date to report. Just because you have a soapbox and a view, doesn't mean it should be discussed. Please remove the whole article as being disrepectable and inpropriate.— Fisher
- "The money you make is only provided to you by the government" - "Nowhere in the Constitution does it tell me that you have a right to your money" - "so if we as a country vote in a policy that takes your money away, that's the cost of citizenship." Yes, indeed Handnik. Tyranny is alive and well in America.— PhillyTru
- "But feel to dream on about your Shangri-la, RG, where you can benefit from everything our government provides, but also not have to sacrifice in any way for that privilege. LOL!" - Yes of course TPS. We get these "benefits" free of charge, created out of thin air from our loving government. No one is confiscating 30, 40, 50% of our income to pay for it all.— PhillyTru
- ---}}} This coming from the person who claims people die from lack of health insurance. {{{--- Apparently you're confused again, RG. There is no doubt that some patients likely died as a result of the NHS policies of not paying for certain drugs for some terminally ill patients with rare forms of cancer. I would have to be in a stupor to argue that it isn't. Just as you'd have to be in a stupor to argue that no one dies in this country due to a lack of health insurance. The statistics, quite simply, speak for themselves. --snip-- “The uninsured have a higher risk of death when compared to the privately insured, even after taking into account socioeconomics, health behaviors, and baseline health,”....The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking into account education, income, and many other factors, including smoking, drinking, and obesity. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually. --snip-- On the other hand, we have a ridiculous claim about "up to 20,000 deaths" without any valid attempt to consider a confidence range with that number. "Up to 20,000" could be zero, or it could be 20,000. And do you have any idea whether the actual number represents a greater or less proportion of terminally ill people than are currently denied access to care by medical insurers? Or do you have any idea of how the actual number compares to numbers of people who don't get treatments in the US because they lack the finances? I thought not.— Talking point sleuth
- ---}}} Yes of course TPS. We get these "benefits" free of charge, created out of thin air from our loving government. {{{--- Where did you get that I said that, Phillytru. I was just pointing out how whiny it sounds when people take advantage of those benefits on a daily basis - yet complain incessantly about having to pay for them.— Talking point sleuth
- "Just as you'd have to be in a stupor to argue that no one dies in this country due to a lack of health insurance." Please make this clear for me. If I drop my health insurance, and later catch a terminal disease, the lack of health insurance and not the disease will be the cause of death?— RG
- "yet complain incessantly about having to pay for them." Let me know when I get to take advantage of universal coverage, SS, or Medicare. Why not let people opt out if they want to? Social safety net and freedom. Hmmm, could it be that its ebcause the rich subsidize the poor, the young subsidize the old, and the healthy subsidize the sick whether or not they want to?— RG
- ---}}} Please make this clear for me. I {{{--- LOL! Here, RG, read the freakin' study. Maybe you'll understand if you do. http://pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults.pdf— Talking point sleuth
- --snip-- Health insurance facilitates access to health care services and helps protect against the high costs of catastrophic illness. Relative to the uninsured, insured Americans are more likely to obtain recommended screening and care for chronic conditions and are less likely to suffer undiagnosed chronic conditions or to receive substandard medical care. --snip--— Talking point sleuth
- --snip-- We analyzed the relation between insurance, demographics, baseline health status variables, and mortality by using c2 tests. We then used a Cox proportional hazards survival analysis controlling only for age and gender to determine if lack of health insurance predicted mortality. We repeated the analysis of the relationship of insurance to mortality after forcing all covariates in the model. In this Cox proportional hazards analysis, we controlled for gender, age, race/ ethnicity (4 categories), income (poverty income ratio), education, current unemployment, smoking status (3 categories), regular alcohol use, self-rated health (4 categories), physicianrated health (4 categories), and BMI (4 categories). We tested for significant interactions between these variables and health insurance status (i.e., P<.05). --snip--— Talking point sleuth
- ---}}} Let me know when I get to take advantage of universal coverage, SS, or Medicare. {{{--- Only and American in a stupor could actually believe that they don't benefit from millions of Americans being provided health care and retirement benefits. Too bad we can't go back to 60% poverty rates among seniors, eh RG? You would be so much better off if only we could.— Talking point sleuth
- Unmeasured characteristics (i.e., that individuals who place less value on health eschew both health insurance and healthy behaviors) might offer an alternative explanation for our findings. However, our analysis controlled for tobacco and alcohol use, along with obesity and exercise habits. In addition, research has found that more than 90% of nonelderly adults without insurance cite cost or lack of employer-sponsored coverage as reasons for being uninsured, whereas only 1% percent report ‘‘not needing’’ insurance.39 In fact, the variables included in our main survival analysis may inappropriately diminish the relationship between insurance and death. For example, poor physician- rated health, poor self-rated health, and unemployment may result from medically preventable conditions. Indeed, earlier analyses suggest that the true effect of uninsurance is likely larger than that measured in multivariate models.13,40 In addition, Hadley found that accounting for endogeneity bias by using an instrumental variable increases the protective effect of health insurance on mortality.40 --snip--— Talking point sleuth
- BTW - Iggy, this statistic is relevant to your comments: --snip-- In addition, research has found that more than 90% of nonelderly adults without insurance cite cost or lack of employer-sponsored coverage as reasons for being uninsured, whereas only 1% percent report ‘‘not needing’’ insurance. --snip-- You spoke about people who could afford health care but simply choose not to carry it. Please note that only 1% of the people in the survey said that they didn't have insurance because they "didn't need it," while 90% of the uninsured cited a lack of income.— Talking point sleuth
- Sorry - 90% cited lack of income or lack of employer-sponsorship as the reason.— Talking point sleuth
- Here is some insight into OCD for you: "Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is a mental disorder characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce anxiety, by repetitive behaviors aimed at reducing anxiety, or by combinations of such thoughts (obsessions) and behaviors (compulsions). The symptoms of this anxiety disorder range from repetitive hand-washing and extensive hoarding to preoccupation with sexual, religious, or aggressive impulses. These symptoms can be alienating and time-consuming, and often cause severe emotional and economic loss. The acts of those who have OCD may appear paranoid and come across to others as psychotic. However, except in some severe cases, OCD sufferers generally recognize their thoughts and subsequent actions as irrational, and they may become further distressed by this realization.......The cognitive–behavioral model suggests that compulsive behaviour is carried out to remove anxiety-provoking intrusive thoughts. Unfortunately this only brings about temporary relief as the thought re-emerges. Each time the behaviour occurs it is negatively reinforced by the relief from anxiety, thereby explaining why the dysfunctional activity increases and generalizes (extends to other, related stimuli) over a period of time." KEEP GOING TPS THE PAIN WILL END SOON— bird11
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- I am not sure why anyone would want to rely on politicians to play with our healthcare with any legislation, let alone a 2,400 page bill consisting mostly of pork. Probably, some believe that all human needs can be provided by government. However, in this world we cannot escape from economic reality. Medical services, and anything else that we need or want is not free. The people who provide services or goods to us make a living by doing so. It is not a hobby. If I don't have to pay for something, then someone else has to make up for my "freebee". This is clearly illustrated in the cost increases we have seen in health care over the last ten or so years. More and more people are getting health care each year without paying for it. To make up for those not paying, the rest of us have to pay more in order to keep the same delivery of health care. Politicians and special interests have gotten us into this market manipulation of the health care market, and now they want us to let them further play with it.— Falls Ed
- Thanks for counting (and no doubt reading them all), BOHICA. Just can't help yourself, can you?— Talking point sleuth
- Legatus; You mean you've never heard of DAMM? (That's Drunks Against Mad Mothers)— James TL
- OK I finally listened to Olbermann's rant and all I can think is that there is 11 minutes of my life wasted. It was an incoherent ramble from a whiny little brat. I don't know which hospitals, doctors, etc Olbermann was dealing with but I can tell you based on my experience - I lost my mother 2 months ago at age 90 - I thank God for the people at Pennsylvania Hospital, VITAS hospice care, and each and every one of my mother's doctors, nurses, and other care givers. My mother was seriously ill for most of the last two years and Keith let me tell you my father, my sister, and myself are three people who have spent nights in the hospital/emergency room/hospice/and our home caring for my mother and what I saw there with my own two eyes was the greatest healthcare in the world.— bird11
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- TPS, let me know when you can cite someone who actually died from lack of insurance and not a terminal disease. Its like saying car crashes are caused by lack of car insurance, which I'm sure you could cite a study for, especially one that "controls" for "variables".— RG
- "Only and American in a stupor could actually believe that they don't benefit from millions of Americans being provided health care and retirement benefits." In other words, a) you can't show how I benefit from SS, and b) you ducked the opt out question. If I don't find it beneficial, whats the harm of me, and others like me, opting out and choosing to not pay in or receive benefits.— RG
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- Oh Please Will, Keith Olberman? May his father rest in peace, but he is a lunatic who is very close to losing his job. He has about 10 viewers.— jersey girl
America has the finest health care system in the world...for those who can afford it. - Harry Truman- Comment removed.
- "Olbermann organizes free health care clinics, Beck organizes corporate sponsored Tea-Parties, who is the Great American?" Well, following your logic, I guess that would have to be Sean Hannity. After all, he organizes Freedom Concerts which have raised over $10,000,000 for scholarships for the education of children of military service members who have been killed or disabled in action.— legatus
- Sean Hannity is a turd.— pagoda
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